Vulkan & Natural Selection 2
Yojimbo
England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
Hey guys,
Was just reading some tech news http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/199905-report-claims-directx-12-will-enable-amd-and-nvidia-gpus-to-work-side-by-side regarding DirectX 12, with the release of Windows 10 not far away and the promise of it being a free upgrade for 1 year with Windows 7 & 8.1 users, would it be worthwhile for CDT to implement DirectX 12 into NS2?
Now now I know working with an entirely new operating system will be a massive undertaking, wouldn't it be beneficial to make NS2 run smooth as possible on the latest operating systems specially with all the hype around DirectX 12 and the performance gains that can be had from it?
The mix of AMD / NVIDIA gpus is one workstation sounds awfully enticing don't you think? Would know how this will work with FreeSync . GSync users, suppose you'll have the option of either
Would appreciate if someone more knowledgable would pitch in and offer some more indepth insight as this could be a real game changer for NS2, particularly in the performance side of things!
Is the engine capable of supporting DirectX 12?
Discuss.
Was just reading some tech news http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/199905-report-claims-directx-12-will-enable-amd-and-nvidia-gpus-to-work-side-by-side regarding DirectX 12, with the release of Windows 10 not far away and the promise of it being a free upgrade for 1 year with Windows 7 & 8.1 users, would it be worthwhile for CDT to implement DirectX 12 into NS2?
Now now I know working with an entirely new operating system will be a massive undertaking, wouldn't it be beneficial to make NS2 run smooth as possible on the latest operating systems specially with all the hype around DirectX 12 and the performance gains that can be had from it?
The mix of AMD / NVIDIA gpus is one workstation sounds awfully enticing don't you think? Would know how this will work with FreeSync . GSync users, suppose you'll have the option of either
Would appreciate if someone more knowledgable would pitch in and offer some more indepth insight as this could be a real game changer for NS2, particularly in the performance side of things!
Is the engine capable of supporting DirectX 12?
Discuss.
Comments
2. Videocards need to support DX12.
Sorry but I'm inclined to disagree, it seems Microsoft want to unify all OS's under one roof hence why it is going to be free upgrade for a year for all Windows 7 and 8.1 users, the nature of majority of users when they hear "new" and "free" is that they tend to jump on the bandwagon pretty quickly, even if Windows 10 turns out to be a disaster the amount of user / technical feedback they will get back will be staggering which will patch any bugs / glitches pretty quickly, besides the fact they have hundreds of millions in R&D to combat it with.
If it does flop I just hope they can resolve all its issues much faster than the time it took to fix vistas / 8.0 problems combined.
Remember that odd pattern Microsoft have with OS's where they seem to get it right after every second version lol.
In regards to videocards, yes thats an unfortunate mishap we will all have to deal with when the time comes, shame driver improvements can't utilise it.
It works, I wouldn't say aswell as DX9 lol.
I'm going to just put it out there that writing a whole new rendering api into an engine hand made by an indie company that started out as modders might be a lot of work. Now that it's up to unpaid volenteers to maintain the game I think it's totally unreasonable to ask such a monumental task from them. He'll I think it's unreasonable to ask anything from them, I'm just grateful they do as much as they do for nothing more then our respect and gratitude. So if you want to contribute then by all means, but try and be more realistic.
Also, as a Linux only user: screw dx12, Microsoft are Poopy heads.
Even if this were for GLnext I'd throw my -1 on this though. We can wait for ns3 because we still love ns2.
Think you need to re-read the post again, I asked if it would be worthwhile, no demands were placed or expectations were expected. I have the highest utmost respect for all that CDT is doing, , this could be the next major project they could put their name on once they reach a build themselves and the community are truly comfortable with, if they agreed to undertake such a large task, I assume atleast half of CDT work in fields outside of NS2 that is similar to what they do right now.
That would make fantastic padding to their resume, if they so choose lol.
I doubt it will ever retro fit into NS2 though.
Hahaha just read your quotes, George Carlin is brilliant
Idk man, have you seen some of the tests they have been doing with dx12 benchmarks? They are making some serious claims about improvements in performance. If that's only available on windows 10 and the fact that its free could mean a huge uptake in initial users. Tbh, apart from initial incompatibility with some apps, why wouldn't you upgrade?
There are many reasons:
1) DX 12 is windows 10 exclusive. Games that use DX 12 will be very good on cpu performance. Look it up.
2) Windows 10 has better cpu performance than windows 7 by itself. I am not talking in games with dx 12. I am saying that you can extract more performance from windows 10 than windows 7. "Windows 10 doesn't appeal to performance freaks like myself. "
3) It is FREE
4) Windows 10 is an amazing OS. I have played with the tech preview and it is so much better than windows 7 and windows 8, even if it practically is windows 8 service pack 2.
5) It is FREE. Don't be silly, just upgrade.
That is when adoption rate will be the highest, that or two months after to work out all the kinks.
I'd like to see a dx12 version but I honestly don't expect it at this point, I just hope any possible game issues with the os will be patched along the way.
Current video cards will already be able to utilize DirectX 12.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7889/microsoft-announces-directx-12-low-level-graphics-programming-comes-to-directx/2
forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/132790/any-plans-for-amd-mantle-support
Seriously, you want another beta API support in the game? They would just use it in Direct3D 9 way, with no performance gains (as they did with DX11). They would have to rewrite half of their engine to benefit. There's no point unless they make shiny new game in the process. NS3 pls pls (^._.^)ﾉ
Direct X 12 is never going to happen, and even if someone was to start fiddling with API's, Their Best bet would be to Fiddle with OPENGL.
Because that would provide not only the BEST PERFORMANCE, (ask valve), it woulda lso affect.. EVERYONE, not just 1 party (filthy, dirty, windows users, EUGH! I feel violated just THINKING that people would willing use that Virus-Absorbtion device)
seriously, OPENGL Needs improvements, not any of the Direct X's.
All joking aside you say 'regular' cpu performance improvements.. I'll wait and see, 10 frames wouldn't make me jump any guns.. if I got 70+ frame increases on my minimum and average then my interest would be appealed. As for the desktop yes I'm sure there's lots of fancy features but for me I disable all of these things for performance gains.. they all give input lag (aero) and it bothers me. But I'm just talking my mind here I've never used it and after it's been out for roughly a year or almost a half a year I'll take a look at what it's about. I'm comfortable with 7, all my drivers work, I have tons of settings in-place and now that I'm all settled microsoft has managed to release 2 new entire operating systems before 7 even got a service pack 2.
Also my soundcard drivers don't play nice with windows 8 according to many forums which was a huge turn off as I love my soundcard
@d4rkAlf If current dx10/dx11 gpus can support 12.. then it's been nothing more than a marketing scheme? I'm not technical is this area
@Seb The same reason people don't trade in their already working and reliable car for a fancy new model which could have a call back, also is it really 'confirmed' free? I've read windows 8 users will get it for free 'up to a year' whatever that means. Think about big businesses as well.. you don't think they're ticked off just moving from xp to 7? I'm sure companies under contract will have headaches when they're all forced to move to 10. (going off-topic here). I'm just not convinced this OS will do much for me when I strictly only game is what I was getting at before.
Yeah its free for the first year so that they can get as many people upgrading as possible initially. For the sake of this argument I was just talking about consumers. I understand businesses are a completely different beast, and Microsoft treats them differently as well.
DX12 will happen, because DX12 will be on Xbone too. Developers are gonna be using it somewhere. Even if it's only the console ports. DX12 doesnt need new hardware. It's down to software and the way it works with Win10.
Don't see how DX12 would help with that.
The reason I know regular cpu performance in windows 10 will be better than windows 7 is because windows 8 has about 10% more performance than windows 7. Windows 10 is essentially windows 8 service pack 2. Yes it is confirmed completely free the first year.
My crunching team, and myself, have found that windows 8 gives 10% more performance. Crunching is a term for distributed computing. We crunch for world community grid. Similarly, we see a 25% performance increase using linux as an os, but only with intel cpu's. If I remember correctly this was mostly related to floating point performance.
Aero is gone, wasn't even in windows 8. Just as many things could be disabled in windows 10 for performance as windows 7. So in no way does windows 7 perform better than windows 10. Will the 10% regular cpu performance increase in windows 8 and better be noticeable in games? Probably not, but you would be on a worse performing OS.
Recompilation using new better compiler, new better API, new GPU drivers, yes. Simple OS switch, no. Not unless they know how to compute single thread on multiple CPU cores at once. Perhaps for IO heavy load, no chance for better performance on simple arithmetics.
I can go find reviews that show windows 8.1 having more fps than windows 7 too. http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1460&page=14
It is not an OS change that gives better performance, but the newer better kernal. It is not out of thin air. There have been changes at the lowest level of the OS. That is why linux gives such a boost in cpu performance compared to windows.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better-on-the-inside-under-the-hood-of-windows-8/1/
http://channel9.msdn.com/Tags/inside-windows-8
Now I am thinking 10% on regular cpu performance might be too high a number. I do get 10% more in crunching, a compute task, which I was thinking would translate throughout all functions.
It's old-fashioned, uninformed thinking like this that halts progress, most recent studies show that as an OS Microsoft Windows had far fewer security vulnerabilities discovered last year than either Linux, or the worst offender, OS X.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/26/windows_beats_apple_linux_with_fewest_bugs_for_2014/
More FLOPS, naah, nope, not gonna happen, not without recompiling your app with AVX or something. If anyone gets some improvement, they can't measure properly, don't know what they are measuring or are using bad timer for that.
They make you think that advancements of the GPU technology are all done by the Microsoft alone.
All MS does is that it breaks compatibility in every version of their 3d layer. With purpose to sell the next version of its OS.
Today their crap is in trouble, so they give upgrades to the version 10 for free.
OpenGL is a common standard, which means decentralization and democracy in decision making.
If you need marketing, OpenGL now does it too with fancy names like "glNext".