The thread is already derailed, a majority of the posts in here are about the logistics of polls, not the poll itself
Fair enough, but all of my ideas take into consideration that no one wants to throw away work that was done. I don't want to throw away gorge tunnels, they're pretty neat, but they're thrown into the game in a way that's using them to band-aid alien inability to get out of their hive in an even match. What I'm talking about with making them infestation only is a way to use them strategically that doesn't break the other team's ability to be strategic as well.
Gorge tunnels as they are simply take advantage of people with less than ~500 hours' inability to spend most of the game bunnyhopping with the map open. I can't always see the skulk that gets through to get the tunnel, but I do alot. For all the times I have to hear about making the game accessible, defending against gorge tunnel base rushes efficiently IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO NEWER MARINES.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I wouldn't mind a GT adjustment, but I think mechanics need to be added to the marine team, more so.
The only thing they have really that's accessible early on with low pres requirements is sneaky PGs... but against a mobile team that scouts it's not always that effective.
I wouldn't mind a GT adjustment, but I think mechanics need to be added to the marine team, more so.
The only thing they have really that's accessible early on with low pres requirements is sneaky PGs... but against a mobile team that scouts it's not always that effective.
Sneaky phase gates would work much better if they didn't require power. Power in this case could allow phases more quickly for instance, what if without power there was a 5s delay between phases? (Obviously this would interfere with other fully working gates in the cycle, but point remains. Power nodes can simply ADD to the game, instead of restricting it.)
I wouldn't mind a GT adjustment, but I think mechanics need to be added to the marine team, more so.
The only thing they have really that's accessible early on with low pres requirements is sneaky PGs... but against a mobile team that scouts it's not always that effective.
Sneaky phase gates would work much better if they didn't require power. Power in this case could allow phases more quickly for instance, what if without power there was a 5s delay between phases? (Obviously this would interfere with other fully working gates in the cycle, but point remains. Power nodes can simply ADD to the game, instead of restricting it.)
You know that there is a marine tech called power surge, right?
And no matter how derailed a thread is, it's not polite to just hijack it for your ideas. Therefor please open another thread
I wouldn't mind a GT adjustment, but I think mechanics need to be added to the marine team, more so.
The only thing they have really that's accessible early on with low pres requirements is sneaky PGs... but against a mobile team that scouts it's not always that effective.
Sneaky phase gates would work much better if they didn't require power. Power in this case could allow phases more quickly for instance, what if without power there was a 5s delay between phases? (Obviously this would interfere with other fully working gates in the cycle, but point remains. Power nodes can simply ADD to the game, instead of restricting it.)
You know that there is a marine tech called power surge, right?
And no matter how derailed a thread is, it's not polite to just hijack it for your ideas. Therefor please open another thread
Someone will just derail that too. And yes I'm aware, and I also would like to play with ideas that don't band-aid fix things. I'm for commander abilities where the power is already on, but not ridiculous things that require turret factories anywhere on the map for literally no reason
I'm not 100 % sure, but I think you disagreed with yourself by the end of that, not with me.
I'm an NSPlayer by heart, not a marine. And most of my ideas are to give aliens more power, without having stupid band-aid powers. Yes I want to get rid of tunnels off infestation, but bolster them in other ways that make more sense with game-flow. Tunnels are random and I would think if you care about the logic of stupid lights in hives you would think that too.
edcit: I'm 1900 skill, level 15, and I abhor having to kill cysts to shove aliens into their base, but I do it because of winning. I only play on the Captains server and Tactical Freedom anymore, everywhere else I feel like a piece of shit. It's not a strategy I should be able to employ.
If you want to give more power to the alien immediately it would be to change the economy so we can re-buy a Lerk or a Fade for a cheaper price. that's also accepting tons of problems. 1st in line : marine should never waste any second to kill a hive. Games lasting too long never means something good for marines in present days.
Other than that it's called making another game. Or re-design it entirely.
But for sure, don't touch the tunnel. Ask yourself this question: How would it be used if it was only to be used on infestation?
-The most common use would be to connect 2 grown hives. Hello MC chamber...
-It wouldn't help on the other things for what the tunnel helped. Like the basic speed of a skulk. It would have to be buffed. Then again if alien manage to get a second hive, that new speed used in conjunction with a tunnel will be quite deadly.
-It would make things simpler for marines. Like they won't have to look for where 'it' comes from. They will know it's from the hive(s) and that's it. They won't even look back.
You don't evaluate all consequences (and I barely scratched the surface here) of what you're proposing. Every single change has to be balanced. Right now i don't see that in what you describe.
I think in fact the tunnel as it is, is actually saving the game from oblivion. But that's another topic.
Fair enough, but all of my ideas take into consideration that no one wants to throw away work that was done. I don't want to throw away gorge tunnels, they're pretty neat, but they're thrown into the game in a way that's using them to band-aid alien inability to get out of their hive in an even match. What I'm talking about with making them infestation only is a way to use them strategically that doesn't break the other team's ability to be strategic as well.
Gorge tunnels as they are simply take advantage of people with less than ~500 hours' inability to spend most of the game bunnyhopping with the map open. I can't always see the skulk that gets through to get the tunnel, but I do alot. For all the times I have to hear about making the game accessible, defending against gorge tunnel base rushes efficiently IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO NEWER MARINES.
It's not the devs fault if other games are so dumbed down that the new players cannot cope with NS2. They have to adapt too.
Of course they should go through a process of learning and use tutorials (the so called menu) instead of trying to get on a server right away. But hey, CS & COD and other made them dumb, NS2 does not have to be dumbed down to appeal (Especially when the topic is about strategy). It doesn't requires high IQ either; Only to play differently.
Sneaky phase gates would work much better if they didn't require power. Power in this case could allow phases more quickly for instance, what if without power there was a 5s delay between phases? (Obviously this would interfere with other fully working gates in the cycle, but point remains. Power nodes can simply ADD to the game, instead of restricting it.)
I don't see the PN restricting anything. If that change was made real there would be somebody whining about the need of a PN.
The PG change you mentioned is again one sided. 5 sec between teleportation means 20 seconds to get a bunch of marines in a hive without being noticed. I don't see where it give more strength to the aliens. If it were to happen I would require to have the money to drop 2 hives right away and keep going with upgrade normally. Other than that i won't jump in the chair for all the gold on earth.
The PN is useful for reaction time. The alien can react and intercept the threat before it become a problem. Same goes for the gorge tunnel. You have to intercept the guy.
Also, the PG have two sides in order to prevent one unit to destroy it. But when 4 marines use it at the same time, it still has a "push behavior" that cannot be blocked by lower life forms (i think Onos still blocks it; the hit model is bigger after all). That's why the PN becomes useful in that case for alien. See... pro/cons are still fair for the moment due to many technical issues and other things as well.
I'm not against changes at all for the alien in order to create an environment in which you can build a strategy and apply it. But it has to be balanced properly (meaning thinking about it) in order to prevent game balance issue.
Comments
The thread is already derailed, a majority of the posts in here are about the logistics of polls, not the poll itself
Fair enough, but all of my ideas take into consideration that no one wants to throw away work that was done. I don't want to throw away gorge tunnels, they're pretty neat, but they're thrown into the game in a way that's using them to band-aid alien inability to get out of their hive in an even match. What I'm talking about with making them infestation only is a way to use them strategically that doesn't break the other team's ability to be strategic as well.
Gorge tunnels as they are simply take advantage of people with less than ~500 hours' inability to spend most of the game bunnyhopping with the map open. I can't always see the skulk that gets through to get the tunnel, but I do alot. For all the times I have to hear about making the game accessible, defending against gorge tunnel base rushes efficiently IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO NEWER MARINES.
The only thing they have really that's accessible early on with low pres requirements is sneaky PGs... but against a mobile team that scouts it's not always that effective.
Sneaky phase gates would work much better if they didn't require power. Power in this case could allow phases more quickly for instance, what if without power there was a 5s delay between phases? (Obviously this would interfere with other fully working gates in the cycle, but point remains. Power nodes can simply ADD to the game, instead of restricting it.)
You know that there is a marine tech called power surge, right?
And no matter how derailed a thread is, it's not polite to just hijack it for your ideas. Therefor please open another thread
Someone will just derail that too. And yes I'm aware, and I also would like to play with ideas that don't band-aid fix things. I'm for commander abilities where the power is already on, but not ridiculous things that require turret factories anywhere on the map for literally no reason
Other than that it's called making another game. Or re-design it entirely.
But for sure, don't touch the tunnel. Ask yourself this question: How would it be used if it was only to be used on infestation?
-The most common use would be to connect 2 grown hives. Hello MC chamber...
-It wouldn't help on the other things for what the tunnel helped. Like the basic speed of a skulk. It would have to be buffed. Then again if alien manage to get a second hive, that new speed used in conjunction with a tunnel will be quite deadly.
-It would make things simpler for marines. Like they won't have to look for where 'it' comes from. They will know it's from the hive(s) and that's it. They won't even look back.
You don't evaluate all consequences (and I barely scratched the surface here) of what you're proposing. Every single change has to be balanced. Right now i don't see that in what you describe.
I think in fact the tunnel as it is, is actually saving the game from oblivion. But that's another topic.
It's not the devs fault if other games are so dumbed down that the new players cannot cope with NS2. They have to adapt too.
Of course they should go through a process of learning and use tutorials (the so called menu) instead of trying to get on a server right away. But hey, CS & COD and other made them dumb, NS2 does not have to be dumbed down to appeal (Especially when the topic is about strategy). It doesn't requires high IQ either; Only to play differently.
I don't see the PN restricting anything. If that change was made real there would be somebody whining about the need of a PN.
The PG change you mentioned is again one sided. 5 sec between teleportation means 20 seconds to get a bunch of marines in a hive without being noticed. I don't see where it give more strength to the aliens. If it were to happen I would require to have the money to drop 2 hives right away and keep going with upgrade normally. Other than that i won't jump in the chair for all the gold on earth.
The PN is useful for reaction time. The alien can react and intercept the threat before it become a problem. Same goes for the gorge tunnel. You have to intercept the guy.
Also, the PG have two sides in order to prevent one unit to destroy it. But when 4 marines use it at the same time, it still has a "push behavior" that cannot be blocked by lower life forms (i think Onos still blocks it; the hit model is bigger after all). That's why the PN becomes useful in that case for alien. See... pro/cons are still fair for the moment due to many technical issues and other things as well.
I'm not against changes at all for the alien in order to create an environment in which you can build a strategy and apply it. But it has to be balanced properly (meaning thinking about it) in order to prevent game balance issue.