We seem like many in the world to jump to conclusions so quickly and become judgmental that it does us more harm than good.
According to you last cologne event it was suppose to be the ''swansong of ns2'', so dont't talk about being judgemental?
Maybe some people are a little sceptical about the people in charge of the ns2 project at the moment(me atleast), and how huge their understanding/motivation of the game really is. These issues wouldn't pop up every week otherwise. On the other I have to give credit to the few people that have actually paid attention to what people have to say, and how you are being judged about every change you make, can be tough I would imagine.
Yes this community has amazing contributors like Mendasp and xDragon, and we work with them when we can to make sure their work doesn't suffer from our patches and changes.
You just keep randomly naming them in topics/posts, but you don't listen to them that's the thing. The problem started when uwe couldn't even hire them in the first place when they clearly should have(not too late yet). How narrow minded can you be to not include such persons in your team and work as a group that has the same goal to make ns2 enjoyable and fun for everyone. What kind of hippie positive office do you need to have when you cant take obvious criticism about the game mechanics that would by adjusting them right benefit everyone, instead you leave people out because they have better understanding what people actually wanna play. You just cant take criticism or you blame them for being elitist, when they actually know what community wants.
Why would people actually maintaining the game playable to huge part of the community have to come to you in every thing and almost beg not to make mistakes you are making, when its clear you are just screwing things up from the gaming perspective, maybe you could contact the persons instead and ask their opinions before hand. This community isn't that huge that you wouldn't know who to talk to and who to listen if you actually cared about the core community.
Stop being so high and mighty in your positive workspace, just because you are the ''dev'' team doesen't mean you can just ignore the core persons in this game and try to hide the facts that you don't listen to them and you keep making stupid mistakes because of that, and dividing the players over and over again. Its the same thing weekly when someone important to the game has had enough, or you just randomly decide to make fanta visions or glowing rooms, and ignoring the modders(yes the ones that kept going when uwe didin't).
If you would have any respect to the community you would actually reach out to dragon+mendasp and the rest and ask them to contribute to the game the way the community wants, not just talk this nonsense about ''transparency and we are listening'' when you actually aren't and you keep making changes that aren't necessary or people don't need/want.
And to you that talk how stupid its to make game for comp players only, this game has never had that approach from the devs, the compscene is what it is now because of the people that are part of it, not because of the dev team. If this game would have been in the hands of the players that have played the game for around 15years you would have both worlds working compscene+balanced games = fun games, now you have this mix of something in between and splitted scene and forum drama twice a day. You can still have the pubbing experience with tournament mode, but if you just focus on one of them its over.
The problem now is that the game is more and more dividing the players because you don't have a clear vision, every change is being judged by someone and it is also holding the game back, maybe its time you actually brainstormed these ideas through with people that has the community support like mendasp,dragon and with your dev team, and stop this martyr attitude from both sides.
Make a clear vision what you wanna do, and ask for help and opinions and do it right, its done right with many games before...
Why should UWE hire Mendasp and xDragon in the first place when they're doing free work? This is the philosophy UWE got.. Do free work and later get f*cked on! Great way to run a studio! What a piece of joke.. I'm sorry.. but you've guys literally managed to run a whole community into the ground by NOT listening what so ever to the public/competitive scene.. Next time, develop something that's not a multiplayer game like subnautica, cause when it comes to communication, you've guys could been a worse case of a example! Just a big shame... Try to milk people for a multiplayer game when your mindset is on singleplayer.. Nah, welcome to the new Tripwire hahaha! Oh Btw @WasabiOne did you forget the petition last year when ENSL was about to leave? And it got leaked to you and you were promising a much close communication with the competitive scene? Did you already forget that? Man... you're clearly delusional.. Start to act like a grown up and step out from the kindergarten already... You cant dodge bullets forever!
Why does Dragon have to use a nuclear option to get you to communicate?
He doesn't, he (and anyone else) can do this first on our discord server:
IronHorse.. Tbh to have the only way to commute as Dragon has to do with private instead of you guys listening to the rest of community means one thing.. You guys cant clearly take critism in a good way.. Stop with your BS imgur.. Cause that shows how childish you guys are... Btw... Can we get a log of how many private messages you guys have responded from the community? Or how much you've implemented of those things we've got in mind as an suggestion? Let me guess.. The list wouldn't even fill half the page of an A4 after 5 years.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
It's not the only way to communicate @Ryssk , but if you're not getting answers when asking general questions in some channel, that'd be the next obvious thing to try wouldn't it?
Also, could you try to be more mature and civil in your responses? Calling others childish while posting like you did isn't helping anything.
Yeah, UWE caved so the competitive players in their floating castle don't have to share features with the rest of the casual players.
The floating castle just fell to the earth though.
Wow, you must be a special kind of person I wouldn't agree with (I guess the original statement was too rude) something I can't find polite words for
I apologized, I was pretty rude. Though I stand by my statement that if the majority of competitive players rely on compmod (for example) to fix the game for them, then the vanilla game won't get the attention it deserves.
As in people stop talking and get complacent about the problems in the main game once they themselves don't have to deal with them anymore.
Yeah, UWE caved so the competitive players in their floating castle don't have to share features with the rest of the casual players.
The floating castle just fell to the earth though.
Wow, you must be a special kind of person I wouldn't agree with (I guess the original statement was too rude) something I can't find polite words for
I apologized, I was pretty rude. Though I stand by my statement that if the majority of competitive players rely on compmod (for example) to fix the game for them, then the vanilla game won't get the attention it deserves.
As in people stop talking and get complacent about the problems in the main game once they themselves don't have to deal with them anymore.
1. Game issues discussion
2. Ignored
3. Game issues plea
4. Ignored
5. Balance mod
6. Rapid iteration idea
7. Rapid iteration concerns
8. Ignored
9. Modders plea
10. Ignored
11. Modders give up motivation
12. Some community members give up desire to continue playing
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Guys... There are only 8 of us... 4 of which are programmers, and only ONE of which is actually full-time. We are always reachable via Discord... but we DO NOT live on Discord, and I for one am sick of the assumption that we see every single message that floats by, and if we don't, oh we're IGNORING you guys. If you REALLY want to get in touch with us, send us a private message or at LEAST @ us in a channel we can see (and if the latter doesn't work, don't assume we ignored you... discord is stupid sometimes and I can't always find where my notifications come from ).
The only times I ignore messages is when it's either spam or somebody screaming at me... and thankfully those occasions are rare.
Bringing me to my second point: if you think for one second I'm going to waste ANY of my limited time slogging through pages of bitching and uninformed complaining in threads named "you're killing the game!" "you guys are AIDS/Cancer/etc etc"... you are sorely mistaken. That's not feedback, that's background noise. You're unhappy. We get it. Acting like dicks isn't motivating us to help you.
Providing constructive criticism, useful feedback, and succinct arguments is MILES better than just screaming nonsense at us and wondering why we don't spend more time on here.
^Beige - You're an easy guy to discuss ns2 with. You're also doing great work with the tutorials and not sure what other stuff you're involved with. It's not like we hate you guys or at least I hope that isn't the case. A lot of passion lately because people were worried about the future. We just have to get through the crazy times.
Providing constructive criticism, useful feedback, and succinct arguments is MILES better than just screaming nonsense at us and wondering why we don't spend more time on here.
alright my constructive criticism is hire 50% more coders (READ: MENDASP AND DRAGON) and maybe you'll make america ns2 great again
12. Some community members give up desire to continue playing
Does that mean all the drama is over then?
Iron, there are folks that are really passionate about this game and they should have a voice in it's continued development. Passionate people feel strongly and it can seem like drama when the game they love changes...that's all. Me personally, it's the only game I play and have been playing for over 3 years.
Look, nobody hates anybody...we just love the game and a lot of us have been around and played NS2 together for a long time. We can bitch at each other if we want and not get bent out of shape. I hope no one takes it personally.
Providing constructive criticism, useful feedback, and succinct arguments is MILES better than just screaming nonsense at us and wondering why we don't spend more time on here.
Please understand that some important people (modders) in the community feel like it's extremely difficult to communicate with you, even through discord.
Half of my frustrating comes from just the lack of communication from UWE. I asked multiple times, and its not just no response... There was responses FROM the people DOING the work. And when I brought up ISSUES right after that initial response, I got nothing.
I appreciate there are few of you and you are busy, but this is a major problem. Now you understand dragon is unhappy and by extention, a lot of us are, I hope you can re-prioritise your efforts to include these people more frequently in discussions and Q&As.
This should go a long way to helping the modders feel appreciated, listened to, and not least supported when they hold mods that do an awful lot to support an awful large portion of the community.
Well now it seems that atmospheric territories has been removed from most of the pub servers. So far I've only found one (tactical freedom) that still has it.
So good job UWE on making it disabled for comp play only. So basically comp players went "waaa waaa my fps went down by 5 frames and I can't see dark rooms as if they were lit up with my insanely boosted gamma" and now it's removed from pubs...
Such an awesome addition to the game, and now it's pretty much gone. Seriously hope you guys force it back into pub servers somehow.
If competitive players want to complain, then let it be disabled for comp only!
Well now it seems that atmospheric territories has been removed from most of the pub servers. So far I've only found one (tactical freedom) that still has it.
So good job UWE on making it disabled for comp play only. So basically comp players went "waaa waaa my fps went down by 5 frames and I can't see dark rooms as if they were lit up with my insanely boosted gamma" and now it's removed from pubs...
Such an awesome addition to the game, and now it's pretty much gone. Seriously hope you guys force it back into pub servers somehow.
If competitive players want to complain, then let it be disabled for comp only!
Just stop with that nonsense ''comp scene'' is whining attitude. Seems like you are completely unaware what the issue here is/was. If you would actually read what people are complaining about you would understand the problem here is not about atmospheric territories alone and wanting to disable it for ''pubbers''. Seems like english is your native tongue so shouldn't be a problem if you focused on what you read about the matter.
Meanwhile you write a topic about ns2+(yes a mod that probably wouldn't exist without comp players), and in this topic you are blaming the comp scene for sticking up to have those mods going like ns2+ to get a helping hand and respect from the PDT team.
The mods(ns2+) you actually yourself want in the game according to your post why ns2+ is gone. So back to the real issue here, no you will not have ns2+ or any other fine mods if the real issue with PDT and the modders are facing wont be solved, nothing to do with atmospheric territories alone so stop blaming something that has nothing to do with the issue here.
So I noticed that suddenly no servers have NS2+ anymore... and looking on the workshop I can't find it.
Did Mendasp finally pull it?
If so then I know at least 2 things the PDT needs to start working on to include into build 290...
- Different mouse sensitivities for Marine/Alien
- Stat tracking (both during and after game) especially in regards to the rt and kill graphs
Sucks if NS2+ really is gone. I don't really understand why, but it doesn't matter. If UWE wants to retain players now then they have to focus all of their efforts on replacing all the features NS2+ offered.
On a side note: Is there a console command for changing mouse sensitivities? At least that would let me set up macro's for each sens.
Well now it seems that atmospheric territories has been removed from most of the pub servers. So far I've only found one (tactical freedom) that still has it.
So good job UWE on making it disabled for comp play only. So basically comp players went "waaa waaa my fps went down by 5 frames and I can't see dark rooms as if they were lit up with my insanely boosted gamma" and now it's removed from pubs...
Such an awesome addition to the game, and now it's pretty much gone. Seriously hope you guys force it back into pub servers somehow.
If competitive players want to complain, then let it be disabled for comp only!
I believe this was done as a temporary fix until the infrastructure was in place to make it easier to disable extensions. This all blew up over the weekend, when the devs are not working, so the simplest route would have been to rollback until it was ready again. IIRC, they've said they'll be working on getting that infrastructure in place this week.
Just stop with that nonsense ''comp scene'' is whining attitude. Seems like you are completely unaware what the issue here is/was. If you would actually read what people are complaining about you would understand the problem here is not about atmospheric territories alone and wanting to disable it for ''pubbers''. Seems like english is your native tongue so shouldn't be a problem if you focused on what you read about the matter.
Well first off I meant to post that in the other thread. You are right that I don't know what the issue is, because I've yet to see a post that says what the problem was that initially started this whole fiasco. All I've read is that dragon got pissed because the PDT/UWE doesn't listen/communicate, with a vague indication that it had something to do with extensions... Meanwhile I read the other thread (where I originally meant to post that) and I see a bunch of comp players complaining about atmospheric territories because it "kills fps" or is "too dark"
Then it's gone from all but one pub server... what else is a person supposed to think but they removed it due to complaints...
Meanwhile you write a topic about ns2+(yes a mod that probably wouldn't exist without comp players), and in this topic you are blaming the comp scene for sticking up to have those mods going like ns2+ to get a helping hand and respect from the PDT team.
Where did I "blame the comp scene" for NS2+ being gone??? I didn't blame ANYONE for NS2+ being gone... all I said was it sucks if it is gone, and that PDT needs to work at replacing it.
So back to the real issue here, no you will not have ns2+ or any other fine mods if the real issue with PDT and the modders are facing wont be solved, nothing to do with atmospheric territories alone so stop blaming something that has nothing to do with the issue here.
This is what i gathered from reading. It's a value free 1 sentence summarization of this whole thing, from what i understand.
If you want to express your insiders view: PLEASE go ahead.
But plz dont do this whole 'i know, you dont know' thing without bothering to explain.
Real answer is money. It's always money. Someone didn't get accolades/credit/paid (and credit/accolades are just as good as getting paid since they help you build a resume which will in the end help you get paid by someone else)
@MoFo1 have you ever considered joining with a div 3 or div 4 team? You might actually enjoy the heck out of it and it wouldn't stop you from pubbing. doesn't require a whole ton of commitment, but a little bit at least.
I have said in the past that I am not interested in competitive, mostly because of certain individuals. I still am glad I have tried competitive in the past. I think it is a good experience for a long time ns2 player. It helped me grow as a player, and in some ways, a person.
I have said in the past that I am not interested in competitive, mostly because of certain individuals, I still am glad I have tried competitive in the past. I think it is a good experience for a long time ns2 player. It helped me grow as a player, and in some ways, a person.
@MoFo1 have you ever considered joining with a div 3 or div 4 team? You might actually enjoy the heck out of it and it wouldn't stop you from pubbing. doesn't require a whole ton of commitment, but a little bit at least.
Comments
He doesn't, he (and anyone else) can do this first on our discord server:
Why should UWE hire Mendasp and xDragon in the first place when they're doing free work? This is the philosophy UWE got.. Do free work and later get f*cked on! Great way to run a studio! What a piece of joke.. I'm sorry.. but you've guys literally managed to run a whole community into the ground by NOT listening what so ever to the public/competitive scene.. Next time, develop something that's not a multiplayer game like subnautica, cause when it comes to communication, you've guys could been a worse case of a example! Just a big shame... Try to milk people for a multiplayer game when your mindset is on singleplayer.. Nah, welcome to the new Tripwire hahaha! Oh Btw @WasabiOne did you forget the petition last year when ENSL was about to leave? And it got leaked to you and you were promising a much close communication with the competitive scene? Did you already forget that? Man... you're clearly delusional.. Start to act like a grown up and step out from the kindergarten already... You cant dodge bullets forever!
IronHorse.. Tbh to have the only way to commute as Dragon has to do with private instead of you guys listening to the rest of community means one thing.. You guys cant clearly take critism in a good way.. Stop with your BS imgur.. Cause that shows how childish you guys are... Btw... Can we get a log of how many private messages you guys have responded from the community? Or how much you've implemented of those things we've got in mind as an suggestion? Let me guess.. The list wouldn't even fill half the page of an A4 after 5 years.
Wow, you must be a special kind of person I wouldn't agree with (I guess the original statement was too rude) something I can't find polite words for
Also, could you try to be more mature and civil in your responses? Calling others childish while posting like you did isn't helping anything.
I apologized, I was pretty rude. Though I stand by my statement that if the majority of competitive players rely on compmod (for example) to fix the game for them, then the vanilla game won't get the attention it deserves.
As in people stop talking and get complacent about the problems in the main game once they themselves don't have to deal with them anymore.
This, exactly.
2. Ignored
3. Game issues plea
4. Ignored
5. Balance mod
6. Rapid iteration idea
7. Rapid iteration concerns
8. Ignored
9. Modders plea
10. Ignored
11. Modders give up motivation
12. Some community members give up desire to continue playing
The only times I ignore messages is when it's either spam or somebody screaming at me... and thankfully those occasions are rare.
Bringing me to my second point: if you think for one second I'm going to waste ANY of my limited time slogging through pages of bitching and uninformed complaining in threads named "you're killing the game!" "you guys are AIDS/Cancer/etc etc"... you are sorely mistaken. That's not feedback, that's background noise. You're unhappy. We get it. Acting like dicks isn't motivating us to help you.
Providing constructive criticism, useful feedback, and succinct arguments is MILES better than just screaming nonsense at us and wondering why we don't spend more time on here.
alright my constructive criticism is hire 50% more coders (READ: MENDASP AND DRAGON) and maybe you'll make america ns2 great again
Iron, there are folks that are really passionate about this game and they should have a voice in it's continued development. Passionate people feel strongly and it can seem like drama when the game they love changes...that's all. Me personally, it's the only game I play and have been playing for over 3 years.
Look, nobody hates anybody...we just love the game and a lot of us have been around and played NS2 together for a long time. We can bitch at each other if we want and not get bent out of shape. I hope no one takes it personally.
There's always going to be a little drama.
Thank you.
Please understand that some important people (modders) in the community feel like it's extremely difficult to communicate with you, even through discord.
I appreciate there are few of you and you are busy, but this is a major problem. Now you understand dragon is unhappy and by extention, a lot of us are, I hope you can re-prioritise your efforts to include these people more frequently in discussions and Q&As.
This should go a long way to helping the modders feel appreciated, listened to, and not least supported when they hold mods that do an awful lot to support an awful large portion of the community.
So good job UWE on making it disabled for comp play only. So basically comp players went "waaa waaa my fps went down by 5 frames and I can't see dark rooms as if they were lit up with my insanely boosted gamma" and now it's removed from pubs...
Such an awesome addition to the game, and now it's pretty much gone. Seriously hope you guys force it back into pub servers somehow.
If competitive players want to complain, then let it be disabled for comp only!
Just stop with that nonsense ''comp scene'' is whining attitude. Seems like you are completely unaware what the issue here is/was. If you would actually read what people are complaining about you would understand the problem here is not about atmospheric territories alone and wanting to disable it for ''pubbers''. Seems like english is your native tongue so shouldn't be a problem if you focused on what you read about the matter.
Meanwhile you write a topic about ns2+(yes a mod that probably wouldn't exist without comp players), and in this topic you are blaming the comp scene for sticking up to have those mods going like ns2+ to get a helping hand and respect from the PDT team.
The mods(ns2+) you actually yourself want in the game according to your post why ns2+ is gone. So back to the real issue here, no you will not have ns2+ or any other fine mods if the real issue with PDT and the modders are facing wont be solved, nothing to do with atmospheric territories alone so stop blaming something that has nothing to do with the issue here.
I believe this was done as a temporary fix until the infrastructure was in place to make it easier to disable extensions. This all blew up over the weekend, when the devs are not working, so the simplest route would have been to rollback until it was ready again. IIRC, they've said they'll be working on getting that infrastructure in place this week.
Well first off I meant to post that in the other thread. You are right that I don't know what the issue is, because I've yet to see a post that says what the problem was that initially started this whole fiasco. All I've read is that dragon got pissed because the PDT/UWE doesn't listen/communicate, with a vague indication that it had something to do with extensions... Meanwhile I read the other thread (where I originally meant to post that) and I see a bunch of comp players complaining about atmospheric territories because it "kills fps" or is "too dark"
Then it's gone from all but one pub server... what else is a person supposed to think but they removed it due to complaints...
Where did I "blame the comp scene" for NS2+ being gone??? I didn't blame ANYONE for NS2+ being gone... all I said was it sucks if it is gone, and that PDT needs to work at replacing it.
What exactly is that "issue" though?
The PDT working hard and fast (and maybe slightly dirty) on pub retention & the modders feeling ignored because of it.
If you don't know the reason, why even post stuff like this?
This is what i gathered from reading. It's a value free 1 sentence summarization of this whole thing, from what i understand.
If you want to express your insiders view: PLEASE go ahead.
But plz dont do this whole 'i know, you dont know' thing without bothering to explain.
Here is a post from Dragon:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2274089/#Comment_2274089
Real answer is money. It's always money. Someone didn't get accolades/credit/paid (and credit/accolades are just as good as getting paid since they help you build a resume which will in the end help you get paid by someone else)
Just a thought.
Very moving.
Hahaha nice subliminal recruitment there tuss!