And again, you as vets are aware of this, cause you know and dont care about the issues.
I would not call 24 slots small.
Team Fortress 2 (I heard its kinda successfull) has 32 slot max btw.
You play CS:Go 5v5 and have to search higher slot unranked servers via steam serverbrowser. And its still very popular, crazy isnt it?
You know why that is? Is because they knew exactly what they were doing once they launched CS:GO
This is pretty much the gripe of the whole thing, people are upset because this is something that should've been made ages ago, the game is almost 4 years old, if this was done within the first or second year of being released, I'm sure it would've been upsetting, but not nearly as upsetting as it is right now.
Going back to my previous reply, if I hadn't been told about the filters thing, I wouldn't have played again, would've launched the game once in a while to check if wooza's was there ( In the default view of the server browser because that's what I'm used to ), just get off again, and started to decrease more and more as time went on.
Do you honestly think something like this is good, for a community already so small? And so old even, it's ridiculous.
A lot of people perfectly understand that being on ANY big game servers on ANY game will surely be hell on anyone's hardware, but people do it anyways.
As far as I'm aware, the biggest request from people is to just lower the map time loading when trying to join something.
And the argument that people who bought the game and cant find large servers would quit cause that are pure speculation based on warm air.
I would not call 24 slots small.
Team Fortress 2 (I heard its kinda successfull) has 32 slot max btw.
You play CS:Go 5v5 and have to search higher slot unranked servers via steam serverbrowser. And its still very popular, crazy isnt it?
Literally none of this works in your favor.
CS:go's custom server's population is a disgrace compared to CSS, where it's still far more active. You know why that is? Because there's no matchmaking, the server list is the only thing you can open, and guess what? Mods aren't hidden at all!
If valve decides to update their browser tomorrow to exclude mods into a different tab by default, the modded servers will take a hit as big as they do now on ns2.
TF2 is successful cause it's F2P. The reason it has 32 slots max is because the maps are smaller/more sectioned off than ns2 does. NS2's maps are too big for 12v12 in MY opinion, do note that I said "MY" opinion, as a ns2large player.
The fact that new people/veterans can not find modded servers is not pulled out of thin air, it's proven by the fact that wooza's server as well as modded servers stayed completely empty for hours on end after the patch hit, and the first day of the patch we barely managed to get a 8v8 game going, whereas otherwise, Wooza's would be jam packed. Wooza's playground is one of those servers that fills up by itself, it rarely ever requires seeding, so the fact that the server is a ghost town after the patch hit just proves everyone's point here.
Reading this thread is like a rollercoaster. Brings back memories of /v/.
Thought the Large servers were dead because my favs didn't show up, until pointed out to me, that they're simply filtered.
What I didn't understand is why "NS2" (#2 filter) next to "ALL" (#1 filter) was shown by default, since I thought UI design always starts with #1.
After reading everything I pretty much understand why this decision was made, even though I don't agree with it.
Guess there's nothing we can do until the "total browser revision" releases. Hope it's not too late by then.
Could've helped both sides if you left the current browser untouched until the overhaul comes out.
It'll be interesting and probably terrifying to see where the playerbase goes from here and if the change does have any impact at all in the long run.
I just read all 9 pages of this, and boy, it seems all like the big kid has just took away the little kids toy, but only moved it to another room.
Its not the end of the world, No one has died,
If there was as much effort put into this thread as there was seeding said servers by said community, then they would be full 12-16 hours a day. - Go Figure.
I'm just impressed that a UI change is getting more attention than the blatantly game-changing medpacks. Our community is indeed special.
The medpack change doesn't matter to people who play on large or casual servers anyways, the cost to med your team increases the more players there are due to the single person single use nature of a medpack, medpacks or healing your team in general would probably be used more if it was changed to be an area heal or if multiple marines could use a dropped medkit.
As it is right now, it's more cost efficient to just drop an armory next to chokepoints than it is to try investing meds on the average pub in a casual game, which is why you often get rounds where the commander tries healing for the first minute and doesn't do it for the rest of the game.
It's just one of the things that doesn't scale well regardless of playercount, if you balance it for 6v6 it's still going to cost more for 12v12.
@Calego@MaxAmus You guys may not realize it, but a modded server won't survive unless it's given an audience. UWE has effectively starved these servers of rookies and players who don't use filters, and these mods will eventually fade into obscurity because of it. Look at Faded and Last Stand, they died even though they had Mod Spotlights and everything. You can't keep a server seeded unless it has a consistent audience, would you not agree?
This change is a poorly implemented band-aid solution. Literally the worst kind of solution.
If there was as much effort put into this thread as there was seeding said servers by said community, then they would be full 12-16 hours a day. - Go Figure.
Exactly!! From what it sounds like Wooza stopped seeding (or just never seeded?) his server (then apparently took it down?) and his community is blaming UWE and this change for the server's "death"
@Puphball If Faded and Last stand died off even with mod spotlights then I think it's pretty clear that those modes weren't liked by the community. I doubt they died off because they were "starved" of players as you seem to imply. Likewise if the NS2large community loves it as much as they say, then it will survive.
If there was as much effort put into this thread as there was seeding said servers by said community, then they would be full 12-16 hours a day. - Go Figure.
Exactly!! From what it sounds like Wooza stopped seeding (or just never seeded?) his server (then apparently took it down?) and his community is blaming UWE and this change for the server's "death"
@Puphball If Faded and Last stand died off even with mod spotlights then I think it's pretty clear that those modes weren't liked by the community. I doubt they died off because they were "starved" of players as you seem to imply. Likewise if the NS2large community loves it as much as they say, then it will survive.
If you really think people generally didn't enjoy playing those mods then you really are deluded and possibly were dropped on the head as a child.
@Puphball If Faded and Last stand died off even with mod spotlights then I think it's pretty clear that those modes weren't liked by the community. I doubt they died off because they were "starved" of players as you seem to imply.
I am taking this as an insult toward all the work done.
For obvious reasons I will stay polite and ask you to at least talk for yourself and don't evolve the community with so quickly made conclusions.
Please go fix yourself.
Team Fortress 2 (I heard its kinda successfull) has 32 slot max btw.
TF2 >24 slot servers were originally hacked in as well, then valve eventually saw the community interest and allowed the -maxplayers server launch property to go beyond 24.
Friday night. Woozas servers are up again playing, maybe with less greenies. Default tab is still ns2. It seems like this decision took away the honey pot effect of the servers. What was the problem again? I think this was a good decision of UWE for ns2. And this is what woozas community really looks like and, it is alive and kicking. Some cheese maybe?
@MoFo1 No, they were not starved of players. However, imagine how much faster they would have died if UWE took them out of the default server list. And before you say it, Faded and Last Stand were very fun while they lasted. You can tell this is true by how Katzenfleisch is well-respected within the community.
The day Wooza's server went down, NS2 had the lowest peak players in months, possibly years . One of UWE's stated intentions was the retention of new players, however they're trading the good will of veterans to accomplish this. This is not a bright idea; my good will is not eternal. In NS2, all game modes belong in the default list or they suffer. UWE put the ball in our court and here we are.
@jrgn did you even read this thread? Separating the default lists will slowly kill all game modes that are not Vanilla NS2. Wooza's was seeded purely through friends lists which is not sustainable. Your line of thought is blatantly fallacious. You can not simply say "If the server is full, everything is fine". Sure, Wooza's might be fine now.. What about later? What about the other game modes without a huge following? Do you want them to die before they even get a chance to live?
Can you give some examples of these game modes or are you talking theoretically? If a mod is good enough it is sustainable. Why so aggressive? All game modes suffers from a low player base right now. Can't you see that? Well, summer is coming!
This is genuine debate, not aggression. I am disappointed that you can't tell the difference....
On to my point: Every single game mode besides Vanilla is being deprived of an audience because UWE took it out of the default server list.The names of these mods are irrelevant because it does not matter if they were made yesterday or will be made tomorrow. Modded game modes (and, by extension, their creators and communities) are being treated as second-rate.
Is there anything unclear about my concern for the future of NS2 modding?
I am taking this as an insult toward all the work done.
I'm sorry, I certainly meant no offense or insult... perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm sure people in the community liked (even loved) those modes, but if they died off before this change, with mod spotlights shining attention onto them, then logic would indicate that there weren't enough people who liked them to populate servers. They weren't "starved" of players.
So, favourites are filtered out... can't remember my last filter... wtf is the point of this little change?
UWE: "This is the most famous server, and it's nearly always full, we don't like that. Rookies should be having fun else where, on a smaller server, until they realize it's not fun 6 on 6 cause no one is talking! So let's filter only that server out, we can use mods to filter it! Great idea, Rant, let's hate on them, they WILL love us for it."
It seems to be a protection for new players that sort servers by player count and pick the first one in the list.
That way they don't have a 64 ticks, huge fps drop, poor hitreg and retarded balance as their first experience.
Those who really like to play on Wooza server will know how to find their way back.
This. A million times this.
Guys, we will never ever make any changes to this game solely to ruin a community. We don't "have it in" for anybody, we're not picking on the little guys here.
Every single change we have made to the game since November has been with the express purpose of improving the new player experience. That's it.
We're not shutting down Woozas, or any other server. We're not going out of our way to make it especially difficult to increase the player count. All we've done is change the default filter to the regular sized ns2 servers. This is done so that new players actually get to experience NS2 as it was intended.
Maybe you like the large servers. Good for you. But that is not how NS2 was intended to be played. It's not what the game was balanced for, it's not in any way indicative of how the game was meant to perform, and because of all this it CERTAINLY cannot be the first thing a new player experiences.
yes, you made your solid point, and I endorse it. new comers should experience the vanilia NS2 before they try anything else and they should know that it might be a different game when they choose(by clicking ALL) to join NS2-Large or a mod.
But, at the very very least, please do not reset the filter to 'NS2 only' EVERYTIME I open ServerBrowser,
Isn't it really annoying that players have to click 'ALL' EVERTIME they open ServerBrower if they intent to include ALL servers and they know exactly what does it mean.
Comments
You know why that is? Is because they knew exactly what they were doing once they launched CS:GO
Do you honestly think something like this is good, for a community already so small? And so old even, it's ridiculous.
A lot of people perfectly understand that being on ANY big game servers on ANY game will surely be hell on anyone's hardware, but people do it anyways.
As far as I'm aware, the biggest request from people is to just lower the map time loading when trying to join something.
Literally none of this works in your favor.
CS:go's custom server's population is a disgrace compared to CSS, where it's still far more active. You know why that is? Because there's no matchmaking, the server list is the only thing you can open, and guess what? Mods aren't hidden at all!
If valve decides to update their browser tomorrow to exclude mods into a different tab by default, the modded servers will take a hit as big as they do now on ns2.
TF2 is successful cause it's F2P. The reason it has 32 slots max is because the maps are smaller/more sectioned off than ns2 does. NS2's maps are too big for 12v12 in MY opinion, do note that I said "MY" opinion, as a ns2large player.
The fact that new people/veterans can not find modded servers is not pulled out of thin air, it's proven by the fact that wooza's server as well as modded servers stayed completely empty for hours on end after the patch hit, and the first day of the patch we barely managed to get a 8v8 game going, whereas otherwise, Wooza's would be jam packed. Wooza's playground is one of those servers that fills up by itself, it rarely ever requires seeding, so the fact that the server is a ghost town after the patch hit just proves everyone's point here.
Thought the Large servers were dead because my favs didn't show up, until pointed out to me, that they're simply filtered.
What I didn't understand is why "NS2" (#2 filter) next to "ALL" (#1 filter) was shown by default, since I thought UI design always starts with #1.
After reading everything I pretty much understand why this decision was made, even though I don't agree with it.
Guess there's nothing we can do until the "total browser revision" releases. Hope it's not too late by then.
Could've helped both sides if you left the current browser untouched until the overhaul comes out.
It'll be interesting and probably terrifying to see where the playerbase goes from here and if the change does have any impact at all in the long run.
Its not the end of the world, No one has died,
If there was as much effort put into this thread as there was seeding said servers by said community, then they would be full 12-16 hours a day. - Go Figure.
Kinda
The medpack change doesn't matter to people who play on large or casual servers anyways, the cost to med your team increases the more players there are due to the single person single use nature of a medpack, medpacks or healing your team in general would probably be used more if it was changed to be an area heal or if multiple marines could use a dropped medkit.
As it is right now, it's more cost efficient to just drop an armory next to chokepoints than it is to try investing meds on the average pub in a casual game, which is why you often get rounds where the commander tries healing for the first minute and doesn't do it for the rest of the game.
It's just one of the things that doesn't scale well regardless of playercount, if you balance it for 6v6 it's still going to cost more for 12v12.
This change is a poorly implemented band-aid solution. Literally the worst kind of solution.
Exactly!! From what it sounds like Wooza stopped seeding (or just never seeded?) his server (then apparently took it down?) and his community is blaming UWE and this change for the server's "death"
@Puphball If Faded and Last stand died off even with mod spotlights then I think it's pretty clear that those modes weren't liked by the community. I doubt they died off because they were "starved" of players as you seem to imply. Likewise if the NS2large community loves it as much as they say, then it will survive.
If you really think people generally didn't enjoy playing those mods then you really are deluded and possibly were dropped on the head as a child.
I am taking this as an insult toward all the work done.
For obvious reasons I will stay polite and ask you to at least talk for yourself and don't evolve the community with so quickly made conclusions.
Please go fix yourself.
TF2 >24 slot servers were originally hacked in as well, then valve eventually saw the community interest and allowed the -maxplayers server launch property to go beyond 24.
edit: i swear i've seen this before....
The day Wooza's server went down, NS2 had the lowest peak players in months, possibly years . One of UWE's stated intentions was the retention of new players, however they're trading the good will of veterans to accomplish this. This is not a bright idea; my good will is not eternal. In NS2, all game modes belong in the default list or they suffer. UWE put the ball in our court and here we are.
Source; http://steamcharts.com/app/4920
@jrgn did you even read this thread? Separating the default lists will slowly kill all game modes that are not Vanilla NS2. Wooza's was seeded purely through friends lists which is not sustainable. Your line of thought is blatantly fallacious. You can not simply say "If the server is full, everything is fine". Sure, Wooza's might be fine now.. What about later? What about the other game modes without a huge following? Do you want them to die before they even get a chance to live?
On to my point: Every single game mode besides Vanilla is being deprived of an audience because UWE took it out of the default server list.The names of these mods are irrelevant because it does not matter if they were made yesterday or will be made tomorrow. Modded game modes (and, by extension, their creators and communities) are being treated as second-rate.
Is there anything unclear about my concern for the future of NS2 modding?
I'm sorry, I certainly meant no offense or insult... perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm sure people in the community liked (even loved) those modes, but if they died off before this change, with mod spotlights shining attention onto them, then logic would indicate that there weren't enough people who liked them to populate servers. They weren't "starved" of players.
Fluctuat nec mergitur
UWE: "This is the most famous server, and it's nearly always full, we don't like that. Rookies should be having fun else where, on a smaller server, until they realize it's not fun 6 on 6 cause no one is talking! So let's filter only that server out, we can use mods to filter it! Great idea, Rant, let's hate on them, they WILL love us for it."
yes, you made your solid point, and I endorse it. new comers should experience the vanilia NS2 before they try anything else and they should know that it might be a different game when they choose(by clicking ALL) to join NS2-Large or a mod.
But, at the very very least, please do not reset the filter to 'NS2 only' EVERYTIME I open ServerBrowser,
Isn't it really annoying that players have to click 'ALL' EVERTIME they open ServerBrower if they intent to include ALL servers and they know exactly what does it mean.
please?
This change has already been made and should be in the next build- sorry about that!