What I see here is an age old commander concern. From my experience, the hive type goes to the players using the upgrades. I try to always ask for a majority consensus on hive type before every round for that reason, because everyone has a different play style and everyone benefits more from either spurs, veils, or shells. That being said, as a commander I adore the shift hive, because I play on 8v8 servers the most and that usually means one gorge. With one gorge I can't cap nodes fast enough to warrant the loss of echoing, although like I said I do frequently choose other hive types if the players request it. A commander's job in the hive is to server their players and lead them, not to drive them in a direction that doesn't suit them or hurts their ability to succeed on the field. Personally, crag first has not turned out well, as the early game engagements don't really seem to be swayed in the alien's favor by carapace or regen. I have found that silence and vampirism are huge for early game ambushes (which are the most crucial part of early game alien play), and that strongly sways my preference for first hive being shift or shade. The crag hive however is invaluable for mid to late game shot guns and weapons 2-3. Without the extra armor or regen, lifeforms appear too frail to accidents and marine ambushes, making crag hive an easy second hive pick. If I'm scared I may never get a second hive, crag may be the strongest option, but I have rarely been in such a situation (IE a game where aliens had 1 hive for a long time and no additional tech points without the team surrendering). To be clear, crag hive is invaluable, and from my experience is easily the best second hive pick by an even wider margin than the shift hive is first pick. Why? Because that's when the lifeforms are coming out, when ambush tactics decline, and combat prowess is essential. What benefits combat ability the best? I would have to say in the purest sense, in the actual engagement (not before or after), extra armor and regeneration are key. This makes all hive types in my mind valuable, but different in their utility. In regards to commander abilities, although they too are situation dependent, echo is by far the most useful and practical in the early game (which this thread wishes to address), as it asserts map control and allows harvesters to be deployed only at full health, reducing the lost res in drifters and unbuilt structures. Drifter abilities are only useful in tight situations or big engagements, and those tend to break out only in base rushes in the early game (in which really any drifter ability works well, and is so situationally dependent I can't say which is "best"). I would be happy to hear further thoughts, especially drawn from personal commander experience.
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What I see here is an age old commander concern. From my experience, the hive type goes to the players using the upgrades. I try to always ask for a majority consensus on hive type before every round for that reason, because everyone has a different play style and everyone benefits more from either spurs, veils, or shells. That being said, as a commander I adore the shift hive, because I play on 8v8 servers the most and that usually means one gorge. With one gorge I can't cap nodes fast enough to warrant the loss of echoing, although like I said I do frequently choose other hive types if the players request it. A commander's job in the hive is to server their players and lead them, not to drive them in a direction that doesn't suit them or hurts their ability to succeed on the field. Personally, crag first has not turned out well, as the early game engagements don't really seem to be swayed in the alien's favor by carapace or regen. I have found that silence and vampirism are huge for early game ambushes (which are the most crucial part of early game alien play), and that strongly sways my preference for first hive being shift or shade. The crag hive however is invaluable for mid to late game shot guns and weapons 2-3. Without the extra armor or regen, lifeforms appear too frail to accidents and marine ambushes, making crag hive an easy second hive pick. If I'm scared I may never get a second hive, crag may be the strongest option, but I have rarely been in such a situation (IE a game where aliens had 1 hive for a long time and no additional tech points without the team surrendering). To be clear, crag hive is invaluable, and from my experience is easily the best second hive pick by an even wider margin than the shift hive is first pick. Why? Because that's when the lifeforms are coming out, when ambush tactics decline, and combat prowess is essential. What benefits combat ability the best? I would have to say in the purest sense, in the actual engagement (not before or after), extra armor and regeneration are key. This makes all hive types in my mind valuable, but different in their utility. In regards to commander abilities, although they too are situation dependent, echo is by far the most useful and practical in the early game (which this thread wishes to address), as it asserts map control and allows harvesters to be deployed only at full health, reducing the lost res in drifters and unbuilt structures. Drifter abilities are only useful in tight situations or big engagements, and those tend to break out only in base rushes in the early game (in which really any drifter ability works well, and is so situationally dependent I can't say which is "best"). I would be happy to hear further thoughts, especially drawn from personal commander experience.
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What sort of tools? Less experienced players don't even flank, let alone ambush. I don't know what the tutorial tips are like but the first one as skulk should be "DON'T FIGHT A MARINE HEAD ON (in general)"
What I see here is an age old commander concern. From my experience, the hive type goes to the players using the upgrades. I try to always ask for a majority consensus on hive type before every round for that reason, because everyone has a different play style and everyone benefits more from either spurs, veils, or shells. That being said, as a commander I adore the shift hive, because I play on 8v8 servers the most and that usually means one gorge. With one gorge I can't cap nodes fast enough to warrant the loss of echoing, although like I said I do frequently choose other hive types if the players request it. A commander's job in the hive is to server their players and lead them, not to drive them in a direction that doesn't suit them or hurts their ability to succeed on the field. Personally, crag first has not turned out well, as the early game engagements don't really seem to be swayed in the alien's favor by carapace or regen. I have found that silence and vampirism are huge for early game ambushes (which are the most crucial part of early game alien play), and that strongly sways my preference for first hive being shift or shade. The crag hive however is invaluable for mid to late game shot guns and weapons 2-3. Without the extra armor or regen, lifeforms appear too frail to accidents and marine ambushes, making crag hive an easy second hive pick. If I'm scared I may never get a second hive, crag may be the strongest option, but I have rarely been in such a situation (IE a game where aliens had 1 hive for a long time and no additional tech points without the team surrendering). To be clear, crag hive is invaluable, and from my experience is easily the best second hive pick by an even wider margin than the shift hive is first pick. Why? Because that's when the lifeforms are coming out, when ambush tactics decline, and combat prowess is essential. What benefits combat ability the best? I would have to say in the purest sense, in the actual engagement (not before or after), extra armor and regeneration are key. This makes all hive types in my mind valuable, but different in their utility. In regards to commander abilities, although they too are situation dependent, echo is by far the most useful and practical in the early game (which this thread wishes to address), as it asserts map control and allows harvesters to be deployed only at full health, reducing the lost res in drifters and unbuilt structures. Drifter abilities are only useful in tight situations or big engagements, and those tend to break out only in base rushes in the early game (in which really any drifter ability works well, and is so situationally dependent I can't say which is "best"). I would be happy to hear further thoughts, especially drawn from personal commander experience.
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What sort of tools? Less experienced players don't even flank, let alone ambush. I don't know what the tutorial tips are like but the first one as skulk should be "DON'T FIGHT A MARINE HEAD ON (in general)"
That is pretty much what the Alien tutorial is like, yeah.
What I see here is an age old commander concern. From my experience, the hive type goes to the players using the upgrades. I try to always ask for a majority consensus on hive type before every round for that reason, because everyone has a different play style and everyone benefits more from either spurs, veils, or shells. That being said, as a commander I adore the shift hive, because I play on 8v8 servers the most and that usually means one gorge. With one gorge I can't cap nodes fast enough to warrant the loss of echoing, although like I said I do frequently choose other hive types if the players request it. A commander's job in the hive is to server their players and lead them, not to drive them in a direction that doesn't suit them or hurts their ability to succeed on the field. Personally, crag first has not turned out well, as the early game engagements don't really seem to be swayed in the alien's favor by carapace or regen. I have found that silence and vampirism are huge for early game ambushes (which are the most crucial part of early game alien play), and that strongly sways my preference for first hive being shift or shade. The crag hive however is invaluable for mid to late game shot guns and weapons 2-3. Without the extra armor or regen, lifeforms appear too frail to accidents and marine ambushes, making crag hive an easy second hive pick. If I'm scared I may never get a second hive, crag may be the strongest option, but I have rarely been in such a situation (IE a game where aliens had 1 hive for a long time and no additional tech points without the team surrendering). To be clear, crag hive is invaluable, and from my experience is easily the best second hive pick by an even wider margin than the shift hive is first pick. Why? Because that's when the lifeforms are coming out, when ambush tactics decline, and combat prowess is essential. What benefits combat ability the best? I would have to say in the purest sense, in the actual engagement (not before or after), extra armor and regeneration are key. This makes all hive types in my mind valuable, but different in their utility. In regards to commander abilities, although they too are situation dependent, echo is by far the most useful and practical in the early game (which this thread wishes to address), as it asserts map control and allows harvesters to be deployed only at full health, reducing the lost res in drifters and unbuilt structures. Drifter abilities are only useful in tight situations or big engagements, and those tend to break out only in base rushes in the early game (in which really any drifter ability works well, and is so situationally dependent I can't say which is "best"). I would be happy to hear further thoughts, especially drawn from personal commander experience.
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What sort of tools? Less experienced players don't even flank, let alone ambush. I don't know what the tutorial tips are like but the first one as skulk should be "DON'T FIGHT A MARINE HEAD ON (in general)"
That is pretty much what the Alien tutorial is like, yeah.
So it's not working then? Do we know how many people use the tutorial? I imagine a steam achievement for using it for five minutes would be a good indicator (maybe there is something similar already implemented).
I wonder if most people just jump into the game instead. They had those old tutorials that would come up in a game. Don't know if they are still used.
What I see here is an age old commander concern. From my experience, the hive type goes to the players using the upgrades. I try to always ask for a majority consensus on hive type before every round for that reason, because everyone has a different play style and everyone benefits more from either spurs, veils, or shells. That being said, as a commander I adore the shift hive, because I play on 8v8 servers the most and that usually means one gorge. With one gorge I can't cap nodes fast enough to warrant the loss of echoing, although like I said I do frequently choose other hive types if the players request it. A commander's job in the hive is to server their players and lead them, not to drive them in a direction that doesn't suit them or hurts their ability to succeed on the field. Personally, crag first has not turned out well, as the early game engagements don't really seem to be swayed in the alien's favor by carapace or regen. I have found that silence and vampirism are huge for early game ambushes (which are the most crucial part of early game alien play), and that strongly sways my preference for first hive being shift or shade. The crag hive however is invaluable for mid to late game shot guns and weapons 2-3. Without the extra armor or regen, lifeforms appear too frail to accidents and marine ambushes, making crag hive an easy second hive pick. If I'm scared I may never get a second hive, crag may be the strongest option, but I have rarely been in such a situation (IE a game where aliens had 1 hive for a long time and no additional tech points without the team surrendering). To be clear, crag hive is invaluable, and from my experience is easily the best second hive pick by an even wider margin than the shift hive is first pick. Why? Because that's when the lifeforms are coming out, when ambush tactics decline, and combat prowess is essential. What benefits combat ability the best? I would have to say in the purest sense, in the actual engagement (not before or after), extra armor and regeneration are key. This makes all hive types in my mind valuable, but different in their utility. In regards to commander abilities, although they too are situation dependent, echo is by far the most useful and practical in the early game (which this thread wishes to address), as it asserts map control and allows harvesters to be deployed only at full health, reducing the lost res in drifters and unbuilt structures. Drifter abilities are only useful in tight situations or big engagements, and those tend to break out only in base rushes in the early game (in which really any drifter ability works well, and is so situationally dependent I can't say which is "best"). I would be happy to hear further thoughts, especially drawn from personal commander experience.
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What sort of tools? Less experienced players don't even flank, let alone ambush. I don't know what the tutorial tips are like but the first one as skulk should be "DON'T FIGHT A MARINE HEAD ON (in general)"
That is pretty much what the Alien tutorial is like, yeah.
So it's not working then? Do we know how many people use the tutorial? I imagine a steam achievement for using it for five minutes would be a good indicator (maybe there is something similar already implemented).
I wonder if most people just jump into the game instead. They had those old tutorials that would come up in a game. Don't know if they are still used.
Yes, achievements like that are implemented, as well as more sophisticated methods. (They even did a double blind test to see which voice works better for the tutorial.)
Yes, a lot of people jump straight into games without watching tutorials. I personally never understood that mindset, but that's people for you.
Turns out you can't just forcefully insert knowledge into people.
I don't think more/better tutorials are the better way to go if you really want to drill "always ambush" into player's minds. Rather the HUD, mechanics, the entire gameplay experience of playing a skulk should in some way tell the player "go around and flank or ambush". Currently it doesn't do that, you only die quicker if you don't. A lot of people don't draw the right conclusions from that.
What I see here is an age old commander concern. From my experience, the hive type goes to the players using the upgrades. I try to always ask for a majority consensus on hive type before every round for that reason, because everyone has a different play style and everyone benefits more from either spurs, veils, or shells. That being said, as a commander I adore the shift hive, because I play on 8v8 servers the most and that usually means one gorge. With one gorge I can't cap nodes fast enough to warrant the loss of echoing, although like I said I do frequently choose other hive types if the players request it. A commander's job in the hive is to server their players and lead them, not to drive them in a direction that doesn't suit them or hurts their ability to succeed on the field. Personally, crag first has not turned out well, as the early game engagements don't really seem to be swayed in the alien's favor by carapace or regen. I have found that silence and vampirism are huge for early game ambushes (which are the most crucial part of early game alien play), and that strongly sways my preference for first hive being shift or shade. The crag hive however is invaluable for mid to late game shot guns and weapons 2-3. Without the extra armor or regen, lifeforms appear too frail to accidents and marine ambushes, making crag hive an easy second hive pick. If I'm scared I may never get a second hive, crag may be the strongest option, but I have rarely been in such a situation (IE a game where aliens had 1 hive for a long time and no additional tech points without the team surrendering). To be clear, crag hive is invaluable, and from my experience is easily the best second hive pick by an even wider margin than the shift hive is first pick. Why? Because that's when the lifeforms are coming out, when ambush tactics decline, and combat prowess is essential. What benefits combat ability the best? I would have to say in the purest sense, in the actual engagement (not before or after), extra armor and regeneration are key. This makes all hive types in my mind valuable, but different in their utility. In regards to commander abilities, although they too are situation dependent, echo is by far the most useful and practical in the early game (which this thread wishes to address), as it asserts map control and allows harvesters to be deployed only at full health, reducing the lost res in drifters and unbuilt structures. Drifter abilities are only useful in tight situations or big engagements, and those tend to break out only in base rushes in the early game (in which really any drifter ability works well, and is so situationally dependent I can't say which is "best"). I would be happy to hear further thoughts, especially drawn from personal commander experience.
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What sort of tools? Less experienced players don't even flank, let alone ambush. I don't know what the tutorial tips are like but the first one as skulk should be "DON'T FIGHT A MARINE HEAD ON (in general)"
That is pretty much what the Alien tutorial is like, yeah.
So it's not working then? Do we know how many people use the tutorial? I imagine a steam achievement for using it for five minutes would be a good indicator (maybe there is something similar already implemented).
I wonder if most people just jump into the game instead. They had those old tutorials that would come up in a game. Don't know if they are still used.
Yes, achievements like that are implemented, as well as more sophisticated methods. (They even did a double blind test to see which voice works better for the tutorial.)
Yes, a lot of people jump straight into games without watching tutorials. I personally never understood that mindset, but that's people for you.
Turns out you can't just forcefully insert knowledge into people.
I don't think more/better tutorials are the better way to go if you really want to drill "always ambush" into player's minds. Rather the HUD, mechanics, the entire gameplay experience of playing a skulk should in some way tell the player "go around and flank or ambush". Currently it doesn't do that, you only die quicker if you don't. A lot of people don't draw the right conclusions from that.
Yes, I agree. Before (and this is probably in around 2013), when you played the game these tutorials with Hugh's voiceover would play. I think something like this would be better. To be honest, I usually don't play tutorials either because it's so difficult to remember everything before going into the game.
Comments
This goes back to my earlier point. Skulks are fragile. Marginally increasing them to less fragile is not nearly as effective as giving them strong ambush tools.
What sort of tools? Less experienced players don't even flank, let alone ambush. I don't know what the tutorial tips are like but the first one as skulk should be "DON'T FIGHT A MARINE HEAD ON (in general)"
That is pretty much what the Alien tutorial is like, yeah.
So it's not working then? Do we know how many people use the tutorial? I imagine a steam achievement for using it for five minutes would be a good indicator (maybe there is something similar already implemented).
I wonder if most people just jump into the game instead. They had those old tutorials that would come up in a game. Don't know if they are still used.
Yes, achievements like that are implemented, as well as more sophisticated methods. (They even did a double blind test to see which voice works better for the tutorial.)
Yes, a lot of people jump straight into games without watching tutorials. I personally never understood that mindset, but that's people for you.
Turns out you can't just forcefully insert knowledge into people.
I don't think more/better tutorials are the better way to go if you really want to drill "always ambush" into player's minds. Rather the HUD, mechanics, the entire gameplay experience of playing a skulk should in some way tell the player "go around and flank or ambush". Currently it doesn't do that, you only die quicker if you don't. A lot of people don't draw the right conclusions from that.
Yes, I agree. Before (and this is probably in around 2013), when you played the game these tutorials with Hugh's voiceover would play. I think something like this would be better. To be honest, I usually don't play tutorials either because it's so difficult to remember everything before going into the game.
I'm not sure I believe that people can be blind to whether the voice they hear has a British or American accent.