ns2_refinery_refined

Zavaro

Just some updates to Refinery I'd like to test out.

Workshop link

modid 4657a139

General
* Fixed location names on the minimap being in less than helpful places
* Fixed doorways on minimap not appearing as connected
* Fixed Routing vent not displaying properly on minimap
* Re-layered everything in Editor to be cleaner
* Rebuilt pathing to account for these changes
* Fixed tons of assets set to be pathing excluded
* Made a number of light fixtures collision free to help my fellow alien dudes out
* Added loading screens that are applicable to this map
* Raised all location entities to cover map under CommView/Spectate
* Added secret "Hot Possums" box

Lava Falls
* Added a bunch of props and propped-up walls to make Falls more alien friendly (as before)
* Removed annoying hanging Gorge spot (as before)
* Removed main tower scaffolding (as before)
* Added additional cinematics to each "lava fall" to increase graphical fidelity
* Removed prop collision from "grate props" on ceiling and RT paneling and replaced with CollisionGeometry
* Rotated RT and Power Node to their opposite sides to improve marine visibility

Smelting
* Junk is moved around to better suit the tech point
* Buckets are no longer tied to the cinematic (as before)
* Buckets have collision (as before)
* Buckets have new "cooling lava" texture up top that won't kill you.
* Buckets have been raised from their previous values to allow players with larger models to more easily pass beneath
* Flipped Smelting EW, this is part of a larger strategy to restructure Smelting-Routing-Conduit as well as combat Smelting's terrible ARC susceptibility

Transit
* Same bucket stuff
* Lowered floor in a few areas to allow larger units to pass underneath the buckets
* New cubby added for vent system

Furnace
* New room connection from Falls Approach to Routing called Furnace, lifted from early alphas of the map and modified to fit a new purpose
* Added RT in Furnace
* Yes, lava in this room will also kill you

Turbine
* Removed Turbine as a starting tech point for both teams
* Raised the ceiling to be less claustrophobic
* Added more pipes to the ceiling, giving aliens a bit more cover
* Increased size of the upper platform

Conduit
* Changed exit toward Turbine to be less funnelling
* Added additional pipes by the RT to help alien players

Chasm
* Increased area around RT to be easier for aliens to bite
* Removed ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't (as before)
* Gummed up the hallway leading to Turbine with more stuff to make it a bit more alien friendly (may have caused the opposite, more testing required)

Containment
* Added forklift and fan LOS block from tech point to Lava Falls exit to help aliens a bit more with the open spaces of the room (as before)
* Replaced ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't with props that you can shoot through, along with some ceiling tiles to block bullets up there (as before)
* Added jump sequence onto the large drums to make it easier to shoot aliens hiding up top (as before)

Vents
* Redesigned Conduit-Routing vent
* Added small jump to allow marines into Conduit-Routing vent from Routing
* Chopped up Extraction-Smelting vent, now two vents
* Vent from Extraction now leads to Furnace
* Added small marine jumping sequence to enter Smelting vent
* Added vent to bypass the bucket-train in Transit
* Added Smelting-Furnace vent
* Added little platforms outside of Furnace vents to keep players from dying in lava prematurely

Possible To-Do
* Reposition Lava Falls to Chasm path to better serve Turbine
* Possibly reinstate Turbine as a starting tech point for both sides
* Redesign long lines of sight in Heatsink
* Make Pipeworks more alien-friendly

Thanks @sweetiebot, @Salads, @IronHorse, @pSyk0mAn, @MajorTico, @IeptBarakat, @Kasharic and all the ones I missed.

Suggestions welcome

pSyk0mAn

I like the change to Chasm, I hope its not too hard for Aliens starting in Containment tho.
What I always wanted to try with this map:

-An additional corridor from Falls Approach to Routing
-Vent exit into the hallway before Conduit, so Aliens starting in Smelting have at least a decent chance to defend Conduit RT. Right now its just one long hallway into that room and no short routes to flank and come from Turbine.
-Also the ceiling area in Containment can be annoying for Marines. Should be easier accessable via jumping routes.

Zavaro

I'm hoping that the Chasm change will be beneficial to both Hives. Part of the problem with that RT is that it could be shot at from pretty much anywhere in the entire room, making it a hassle to hold. If it's problematic, I'll do another rebuild of that room.

It is the same number of cysts, though, and now you can multi-cyst the RT, which is hugely helpful.

I like that extra vent idea, I'd probably make it exit into southern Routing, though, so as to avoid that miserable hallway. My plan is to redesign Conduit completely at some point, anyways, but hopefully easier solutions can be tested first.

Definitely agree with Containment. Not sure what I want to do there, but I can definitely add some smart methods of getting up on top. I'd make them closer to the tech point, though, as I'd rather not have hallway marines able to shoot eggs and aliens from across the gigantic room.

Vetinari

Zavaro wrote: »

I like that extra vent idea, I'd probably make it exit into southern Routing, though, so as to avoid that miserable hallway. My plan is to redesign Conduit completely at some point, anyways, but hopefully easier solutions can be tested first.

I too hope that a less intrusive solution can be found. Conduit is such an iconic part of the map.

...to be fair, most parts of the map are pretty iconic. Except for Heatsink, which is one of the most boring areas in any ns2 map. I guess it evens out?

The_Welsh_Wizard

I think Lava Falls is the only iconic part of the map. The rest could easily be replaced.

Zavaro

Vetinari wrote: »

Zavaro wrote: »

I like that extra vent idea, I'd probably make it exit into southern Routing, though, so as to avoid that miserable hallway. My plan is to redesign Conduit completely at some point, anyways, but hopefully easier solutions can be tested first.

I too hope that a less intrusive solution can be found. Conduit is such an iconic part of the map.

...to be fair, most parts of the map are pretty iconic. Except for Heatsink, which is one of the most boring areas in any ns2 map. I guess it evens out?

Conduit would retain its look and feel, it would just be restructured. I definitely like style of the room, too, it's pretty silly themeing.

BeigeAlert

Added to SCC. Can't wait to test this out.

Zavaro

Another update. Added the vent Psykoman was talking about and a way for marines to get up on top of Containment. A bit confused, I'm having a small problem with builder recognizing a vent. I'll fix it soon enough, regardless: it is playable.

The map has also been added onto TA House of Awesome! Thanks @AmbivalentAmbiguity

Mephilles

some feedback and bug reports from my end:

please add a way for marines and onos to get out of this spot and the pipes that are shown on the left


those things have a weird collision. The empty space between those 2 arms have collision. You might wanna make those not collidable and add collision geometry to it


missing ceiling in routing
also the new vent is not in the vent layer yet

the only other thing that really bugs me about refinery is lava falls. An open big room like that is not good for ns2 gameplay imo. I always though you could split lava falls up into 3 rooms of it's own but since it is a central area I'd probably split it up into 2 rooms with less verticality. Ot atleast deny entrance on second and third floor of the tower.

Anyway I dislike being in the room no matter what side, class or weapon I have. I feel engagements feel poor in that room.

Zavaro

Alright. Fixed these issues, save for the Onos, Marine stuck one. Don't go Onos there for now?

G_Lock

@pSyk0mAn I really like your idea of connecting Falls Approach to Routing, I've always felt like the map rotations on the bottom right side of the map were massively long for marines before gates go up.

Zavaro

I may have definitely accidentally deleted the wrong workshop version (as my launchpad keeps making new modids. A new link has been updated in the top thread.

A comedy of errors, jeez. Publishing this has been wild with all the problems.

Mephilles

welcome to the club @Zavaro

pSyk0mAn

I watched some games on TA and thought a bit more about the map and your changes.
I made some suggestions in spark:

Mainly improvements to Containment and Chasm.

Also I think you should put back that one bucket in Transit next to the entrance of the res node area, where only the holding thingie is hanging right now.
Seems too open for me now for Aliens defending that RT from Smelting.

Zavaro

Cage match! FIGHT IN THE THUNDERDOME

Restructured tower!

Use the nooks in Chasm to attack marines!

More stuff by that RT!

Shoot at those miserable skulks hiding on the ceiling! But there is a bit of cover, still!

No more Gorge ceiling cheese in Falls!

New vents in Falls!

BRIGHTER AND MORE AWESOME LAVA (technically, it's not lava, it's molten steel)!

Kouji_San

It's molten steel?

@Zavaro, the dasher of dreams

pSyk0mAn

ITS LAVA OK






(..also, awesome changes)

Zavaro

As a now degreed geologist, I can guarantee you that it is not lava.

That said, welcome the new path.

pSyk0mAn

Good job!

..and don't burst my lava bubble ok

Vetinari

RIP old lava falls tower, your looks will be missed.

Looking really good so far, though, cant wait to play it tonight.

Kouji_San

pSyk0mAn wrote: »

Good job!

..and don't burst my lava bubble ok

Don't listen to this certified professional pSyk0! Clearly, Refinery is a lava production facility!


*glares at Zavaro*

Richard333

Was asked to give my construction critism via someone from the TA 12v12 server on refinery_refined.

Starting from smelting, the things no logner moving without any real given reason (ie: the rail has no break/bent point, no red lights indicating no power to the rails) ends up as rather immersion breaking.

Falls approach expansion for some reason just feels off from the rest of the map, it could be due to the general lighting of that area or due to the floors, can't really put my thumb on it.

All that stuff removed from lava falls just ends up making it feel completely empty as well as turning lava falls into a huge marine shooting range rendering it very hard for aliens to do anything about lava falls stuff, even attacking the RTs there.

Chasm looks and feels like ???? and is heavily one sided for marines there, although those nooks were something the felt much needed there so good job on those.

Didn't notice the changes in conduit until I read about them here and saw them mentiond here, although the conduit vent going into routing seems like it could be better instead of just a straight long path, the placement of the vent though is nice.


All in all the biggest glaring thing is lava falls, it feels and is rather empty and is a giant marine shooting range now. Other than that the rest of the stuff is relatively minor.

Zavaro

Richard333 wrote: »

Starting from smelting, the things no logner moving without any real given reason (ie: the rail has no break/bent point, no red lights indicating no power to the rails) ends up as rather immersion breaking.

The things no longer moving was specifically a gameplay change as Transit-Smelting was a pretty frustrating path with large lines of sight and soft-cover in the form of the barrels. They were much more immersion breaking as you could walk through them. I'm considering raising them a slight amount. I like the idea of adding lights though. I'll work on it.

Falls approach expansion for some reason just feels off from the rest of the map, it could be due to the general lighting of that area or due to the floors, can't really put my thumb on it.

Eh, that's a visual thing. The old hallways were actually borrowed from an old version of the map and repurposed for the hallway.

All that stuff removed from lava falls just ends up making it feel completely empty as well as turning lava falls into a huge marine shooting range rendering it very hard for aliens to do anything about lava falls stuff, even attacking the RTs there.

I plan on adding back some more cover for aliens in Falls tonight in the form of pipes and some crates and LOS blocks. The room is a lot easier for aliens directly by the node from what I've seen.

Chasm looks and feels like ???? and is heavily one sided for marines there, although those nooks were something the felt much needed there so good job on those.

I'm leaning on changing it back to how it was, the problem was that the RT in that area was in an equal (if not worse) position, as you could shoot it from everywhere. I might have to completely restructure that room.

Didn't notice the changes in conduit until I read about them here and saw them mentiond here, although the conduit vent going into routing seems like it could be better instead of just a straight long path, the placement of the vent though is nice.

I'm currently working on a fix for this.

Thanks for your feedback!

Nordic

Did you fix that spot without a death trigger in chasm, where there is supposed to be a death trigger. I reported that in the map testing and playtesting refinery threads years ago.

pSyk0mAn

I agree that Lava Falls feels very empty now. Visuals are kinda bad on the ceiling atm.
The new res node placement together with the new surrounding geometry is genius tho. It's mostly covered from all sides and yet that area feels still kinda open.

Zavaro

Nordic wrote: »

Did you fix that spot without a death trigger in chasm, where there is supposed to be a death trigger. I reported that in the map testing and playtesting refinery threads years ago.

Damn. I'll get to it.

Zavaro

New update.

Lava Falls
* Added a bunch of pipes and ceiling props
* Added more LOS block from Falls Approach-Lava Platform
* Removed OP vents underneath platform
* Raised death triggers
* Removed "trap" pipes that are in vanilla Refinery death trap, you land on them and you die.
* Added missing tower and associated platform props to CommanderInvisible
* Opened up shooting at RT from West side of Lava

Chasm
* Reverted Chasm to (near) vanilla Refinery, some fixes and changes still apply
* Added more stuff to Chasm-Turbine path to help Skulks engage marines in Death Hallway

Containment
* Reverted Tech Point location
* Moved LOS block to cover more of the doorway
* Still waiting on @BeigeAlert to add me CommanderInvisibleNonCollideable group

Smelting
* Raised barrels past height of marine
* Added new LOS block from Smelting-Routing to Smelting RT

Transit
* Raised barrels past height of marine

Extraction
* Fixed issues with pathing and multiple layers

The_Welsh_Wizard

Zavaro wrote: »

* Still waiting on @BeigeAlert to add me CommanderInvisibleNonCollideable group

YES PLEASE

Mephilles

did no skulk ever try moving through lava falls below the bridge?

Kouji_San

Mephilles wrote: »

did no skulk ever try moving through lava falls below the bridge?

I used to do the all the time even though it was way more trouble than it's worth. You're too damn slow and there's that risk of getting your buns toasty.

Wallwalking on a ceiling isn't known for it's reliability, I guess it's in the name

Mephilles

but they made the ceiling walk more reliable in a kind of recent update