but they made the ceiling walk more reliable in a kind of recent update
I specifically lowered the lava death trigger upon a previous release and didn't tell anyone for fear of maximum skulk/lerk annoyance during testing. I tested it myself a bit in a few games. Became too hard to track lerks in the room for marines in addition to all the other stuff around the room itself. Felt extremely unfair as a lerk. NERFED
Did you fix that spot without a death trigger in chasm, where there is supposed to be a death trigger. I reported that in the map testing and playtesting refinery threads years ago.
Damn. I'll get to it.
I seem to be the only one that knows about it. I have only found use of it when hiding while waiting for the aliens to kill our base. I have hoped that one day I will hide down there when the aliens decide to win by killing every single marine instead of killing the chair.
Any big baserushes happening to turbine base? - With that maplayout
This was one of the things I was most worried about, as well as Conduit's (and to a lesser extent Chasm's) sensitivity to the quicker path, especially coupled with that vent. I haven't seen it happen yet, personally, but I've got people on TA nearly all the time telling me what's going on. I don't like Turbine spawn whatsoever, and I'd love to change the room and paths out of it to be beneficial for everyone at some point.
KatzenfleischJoin Date: 2014-03-21Member: 194881Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Nice changes really, a few issues I found when playing:
Vents not visible for the commander
Lava falls visible for the commander, I think they could be hidden
Lava falls feels empty, I think adding something in the line of Mineshaft:Central will be good (as a skulk I would like to use that space above the first floor for parkours or so, atm they can't go throw the room without having to either go to the ceiling or roof)
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Thanks, @Katzenfleisch. Fixed everything that was jarring or nonexistent.
I like some of those ideas, but I'm not keen on adding back a level to the pillar in Lava, as it was frustrating for marines. Definitely like the Routing idea, though, and it's pretty evident that was that areas intention to begin with. It would require me to rebuild that entire hallway though.
I fixed the issue with the CommanderInvisible cinematics in Lava, but I'd rather not add the vents to the comm's view just yet. Vents aren't visible in normal Refinery, either.
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
General
* Added CollisionGeometry to every railing
* Removed collideable flag from all railings
Containment
* Increased the size of the door to Chasm, added crate for some LOS block and flavor
* Added skin to forklift model to make it stick out less and feel more refined
Falls Approach
* Removed collideable from a set of cables that would block bullets and parasites
Extraction
* Raised platform above catwalks to no longer block Onos and Exosuits
* Removed collideable flag from light on platform above catwalks for smoother movement
* Removed collideable flag from broken glass Flow window
HandschuhJoin Date: 2005-03-08Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
In general the map still has a marinevibe to it... played the refined version few rounds with some good ppl, and the marines were always able to lockdown enough RTs till they'll tech up - ending mostly with GL Spam from headsink to Containment
GhoulofGSG9Join Date: 2013-03-31Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
edited November 2017
Short feedback on the current version:
The Falls Approach resource node is kinda outside the normal travel routes. So in all rounds i played one team did hold it for more than 5 minutes without the other team really clearing it.
Imho Lava Falls still needs some more cover in the air for Lerks. If you have some descent marines in there chances are high you are going to die as Lerk because the pipes only offer very limited cover. And flying below the bridge is not really an option either without taking damage from the lava.
In general the map still has a marinevibe to it... played the refined version few rounds with some good ppl, and the marines were always able to lockdown enough RTs till they'll tech up - ending mostly with GL Spam from headsink to Containment
Yeah. I'm pushing an update to make Lava Falls a bit better, but Heatsink/Containment is next on the list. So far Marines starting in Containment has the easiest time in the map. Hopefully my Exchange/south Lava Falls changes should help that, though I haven't had time enough to play it myself.
The Falls Approach resource node is kinda outside the normal travel routes. So in all rounds i played one team did hold it for more than 5 minutes without the other team really clearing it.
Imho Lava Falls still needs some more cover in the air for Lerks. If you have some descent marines in there chances are high you are going to die as Lerk because the pipes only offer very limited cover. And flying below the bridge is not really an option either without taking damage from the lava.
Otherwise I really enjoy playing the map.
I appreciate it, Ghoul.
Update to alleviate your concerns and the concerns that I've received.
I'm adding some stuff back in for Lerks and skulks specifically in southern Lava Falls. Pipes, crates, and a new route under the weird-box-thing.
I think probably the reason the resource node isn't regularly attacked is just due to people not accustomed to actually using those paths, though I do agree the path has particularly limited use if Marines start in Flow Control (as it enables quick Conduit pushes, but actually slows players a small amount on the way to Chasm).
I'm considering connecting a vent to it that might make that area a bit better for alien aggression, as well as a plan to open up the room itself (based on some sick unused art from Cory that I found) to speed up travel times, as right now it's a glorified afterthought hodgepodge of a room. I'm more convinced now that southern Lava Falls RT was bad in comparison, though, just given its location and ease of pressure. If anything, "holding it for five minutes" sort of shows that it solved it, just not in the way I want.
If I do change how the current Falls Appraoch room is, I'll end up flipping Smelting east-west to keep players from being able to ARC from Transit and a newer edition of Falls Approach, which might make Smelting a bit more satisfying as a starting position.
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Thanks to @pSyk0mAn and @IronHorse, this map has been resumed. This version was rebuilt from the ground up to be cleaner.
General
* Fixed location names on the minimap being in less than helpful places
* Fixed doorways on minimap not appearing as connected
* Fixed Routing vent not displaying properly on minimap
* Re-layered everything in Editor to be cleaner
* Rebuilt pathing
* Fixed tons of assets set to be pathing excluded
* Made a number of light fixtures collision free to help my fellow alien dudes out
* Added loading screens that are applicable to this map
Lava Falls
* Added a bunch of props and propped-up walls to make Falls more alien friendly (as before)
* Removed annoying hanging Gorge spot (as before)
* Removed main tower scaffolding (as before)
Smelting
* Junk is moved around to better suit the tech point
* Buckets are no longer tied to the cinematic (as before)
* Buckets have collision (as before)
* Buckets have new "cooling lava" texture up top that won't kill you.
* Buckets have been raised from their previous values to allow players with larger models to more easily pass beneath
Transit
* Same bucket stuff
* Lowered floor in a few areas to allow larger units to pass underneath the buckets
* New cubby added for vent system
Furnace
* New room connection from Falls Approach to Routing called Furnace, lifted from early alphas of the map and modified to fit a new purpose
* Added RT in Furnace
* Yes, lava in this room will also kill you
Turbine
* Removed Turbine as a starting tech point for both teams
* Raised the ceiling to be less claustrophobic
* Added more pipes to the ceiling, giving aliens a bit more cover
* Increased size of the upper platform
* Moved the tech point out of the cubby and into the open
* Moved the RT into the cubby for easier Gorge lame-ing
Chasm
* Increased area around RT to be easier for aliens to bite
* Removed ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't (as before)
* Gummed up the hallway leading to Turbine with more stuff to make it a bit more alien friendly
Containment
* Added forklift and fan LOS block from tech point to Lava Falls exit to help aliens a bit more with the open spaces of the room (as before)
* Replaced ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't with props that you can shoot through, along with some ceiling tiles to block bullets up there (as before)
* Added jump sequence onto the large drums to make it easier to shoot aliens hiding up top (as before)
Vents
* Redesigned Conduit-Routing vent
* Added small jump to allow marines into Conduit-Routing vent from Routing
* Chopped up Extraction-Smelting vent, now two vents
* Vent from Extraction now leads to Furnace
* Added small marine jumping sequence to enter Smelting vent
* Added vent to bypass the bucket-train in Transit
Possible To-Do
* Reposition Lava Falls to Chasm path to better serve Turbine
* Possibly reinstate Turbine as a starting tech point for both sides
* Redesign long lines of sight in Heatsink
* Make Pipeworks more alien-friendly
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Updated for tomorrow's playtest.
Conduit
* Changed exit toward Turbine to be less funnelling
* Added generic terminals to room to help skulks
* Added additional pipes by the RT to help alien players
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Tbh, I'm not a fan of the recent Conduit changes. If anything, those pipe changes at the conduit exit are bad for Aliens, because the LOS for Marines has been improved around those corners.
The Terminals feel kinda out of place too, in that room and at those spots.
I would suggest you try something like this to have a big obstacle at the exit of the room, where aliens can go around on all sides.
Could use a few more, honestly. I'm still not a big fan of that incredibly long LOS from Turbine to the back of Conduit. Needs a better solution. Replaced with pipe solution for now. Maybe double row of pipes like this, but rotated to block RT los from so far?
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Generic
* Raised all location entities to cover map under CommView/Spectate
Vents
* Added Smelting-Furnace vent
* Added little platforms outside of Furnace vents to keep players from dying in lava prematurely
Lava Falls
* Removed prop collision from "grate props" on ceiling and RT paneling and replaced with CollisionGeometry
* Rotated RT and Power Node to their opposite sides to improve marine visibility
Turbine
* Reverted RT/TP location swap
Smelting
* Flipped Smelting EW, this is part of a larger strategy to restructure Smelting-Routing-Conduit as well as combat Smelting's terrible ARC susceptibility
Comments
I specifically lowered the lava death trigger upon a previous release and didn't tell anyone for fear of maximum skulk/lerk annoyance during testing. I tested it myself a bit in a few games. Became too hard to track lerks in the room for marines in addition to all the other stuff around the room itself. Felt extremely unfair as a lerk. NERFED
I seem to be the only one that knows about it. I have only found use of it when hiding while waiting for the aliens to kill our base. I have hoped that one day I will hide down there when the aliens decide to win by killing every single marine instead of killing the chair.
This was one of the things I was most worried about, as well as Conduit's (and to a lesser extent Chasm's) sensitivity to the quicker path, especially coupled with that vent. I haven't seen it happen yet, personally, but I've got people on TA nearly all the time telling me what's going on. I don't like Turbine spawn whatsoever, and I'd love to change the room and paths out of it to be beneficial for everyone at some point.
I like some of those ideas, but I'm not keen on adding back a level to the pillar in Lava, as it was frustrating for marines. Definitely like the Routing idea, though, and it's pretty evident that was that areas intention to begin with. It would require me to rebuild that entire hallway though.
I fixed the issue with the CommanderInvisible cinematics in Lava, but I'd rather not add the vents to the comm's view just yet. Vents aren't visible in normal Refinery, either.
The marine will appear to float to the comm, but medpacks will stick to him just fine.
In fact, now that you can pick up ammo/meds independent of z levels, you can (theoretically) med people literally anywhere.
* Added CollisionGeometry to every railing
* Removed collideable flag from all railings
Containment
* Increased the size of the door to Chasm, added crate for some LOS block and flavor
* Added skin to forklift model to make it stick out less and feel more refined
Falls Approach
* Removed collideable from a set of cables that would block bullets and parasites
Extraction
* Raised platform above catwalks to no longer block Onos and Exosuits
* Removed collideable flag from light on platform above catwalks for smoother movement
* Removed collideable flag from broken glass Flow window
* Fixed some OcclusionGeometry bugs in Lava Falls
Exchange
* Moved the location of the RT to be easier for aliens to hold if Marines start in Containment
Chasm
* Expanded area a bit behind the RT in Chasm for easier movement while biting
Man, my voice is so high.
Also, really nice jumping.
By you, I mean. Not everybody else.
"regular"
* Removed southern Lava Falls RT
Falls Approach
* Added RT in new junction
Generic
* Changed some small visual tweaks for areas beyond where players can go (black.dds)
Otherwise I really enjoy playing the map.
Wrong
"stoned"
Yeah. I'm pushing an update to make Lava Falls a bit better, but Heatsink/Containment is next on the list. So far Marines starting in Containment has the easiest time in the map. Hopefully my Exchange/south Lava Falls changes should help that, though I haven't had time enough to play it myself.
I appreciate it, Ghoul.
Update to alleviate your concerns and the concerns that I've received.
I'm adding some stuff back in for Lerks and skulks specifically in southern Lava Falls. Pipes, crates, and a new route under the weird-box-thing.
I think probably the reason the resource node isn't regularly attacked is just due to people not accustomed to actually using those paths, though I do agree the path has particularly limited use if Marines start in Flow Control (as it enables quick Conduit pushes, but actually slows players a small amount on the way to Chasm).
I'm considering connecting a vent to it that might make that area a bit better for alien aggression, as well as a plan to open up the room itself (based on some sick unused art from Cory that I found) to speed up travel times, as right now it's a glorified afterthought hodgepodge of a room. I'm more convinced now that southern Lava Falls RT was bad in comparison, though, just given its location and ease of pressure. If anything, "holding it for five minutes" sort of shows that it solved it, just not in the way I want.
If I do change how the current Falls Appraoch room is, I'll end up flipping Smelting east-west to keep players from being able to ARC from Transit and a newer edition of Falls Approach, which might make Smelting a bit more satisfying as a starting position.
Lots of ideas.
General
* Fixed location names on the minimap being in less than helpful places
* Fixed doorways on minimap not appearing as connected
* Fixed Routing vent not displaying properly on minimap
* Re-layered everything in Editor to be cleaner
* Rebuilt pathing
* Fixed tons of assets set to be pathing excluded
* Made a number of light fixtures collision free to help my fellow alien dudes out
* Added loading screens that are applicable to this map
Lava Falls
* Added a bunch of props and propped-up walls to make Falls more alien friendly (as before)
* Removed annoying hanging Gorge spot (as before)
* Removed main tower scaffolding (as before)
Smelting
* Junk is moved around to better suit the tech point
* Buckets are no longer tied to the cinematic (as before)
* Buckets have collision (as before)
* Buckets have new "cooling lava" texture up top that won't kill you.
* Buckets have been raised from their previous values to allow players with larger models to more easily pass beneath
Transit
* Same bucket stuff
* Lowered floor in a few areas to allow larger units to pass underneath the buckets
* New cubby added for vent system
Furnace
* New room connection from Falls Approach to Routing called Furnace, lifted from early alphas of the map and modified to fit a new purpose
* Added RT in Furnace
* Yes, lava in this room will also kill you
Turbine
* Removed Turbine as a starting tech point for both teams
* Raised the ceiling to be less claustrophobic
* Added more pipes to the ceiling, giving aliens a bit more cover
* Increased size of the upper platform
* Moved the tech point out of the cubby and into the open
* Moved the RT into the cubby for easier Gorge lame-ing
Chasm
* Increased area around RT to be easier for aliens to bite
* Removed ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't (as before)
* Gummed up the hallway leading to Turbine with more stuff to make it a bit more alien friendly
Containment
* Added forklift and fan LOS block from tech point to Lava Falls exit to help aliens a bit more with the open spaces of the room (as before)
* Replaced ceiling tiles that looked like you could shoot through them but in reality you couldn't with props that you can shoot through, along with some ceiling tiles to block bullets up there (as before)
* Added jump sequence onto the large drums to make it easier to shoot aliens hiding up top (as before)
Vents
* Redesigned Conduit-Routing vent
* Added small jump to allow marines into Conduit-Routing vent from Routing
* Chopped up Extraction-Smelting vent, now two vents
* Vent from Extraction now leads to Furnace
* Added small marine jumping sequence to enter Smelting vent
* Added vent to bypass the bucket-train in Transit
Possible To-Do
* Reposition Lava Falls to Chasm path to better serve Turbine
* Possibly reinstate Turbine as a starting tech point for both sides
* Redesign long lines of sight in Heatsink
* Make Pipeworks more alien-friendly
Conduit
* Changed exit toward Turbine to be less funnelling
* Added generic terminals to room to help skulks
* Added additional pipes by the RT to help alien players
The Terminals feel kinda out of place too, in that room and at those spots.
I would suggest you try something like this to have a big obstacle at the exit of the room, where aliens can go around on all sides.
Could use a few more, honestly. I'm still not a big fan of that incredibly long LOS from Turbine to the back of Conduit. Needs a better solution. Replaced with pipe solution for now. Maybe double row of pipes like this, but rotated to block RT los from so far?
Will go back to drawing board.
* Raised all location entities to cover map under CommView/Spectate
Vents
* Added Smelting-Furnace vent
* Added little platforms outside of Furnace vents to keep players from dying in lava prematurely
Lava Falls
* Removed prop collision from "grate props" on ceiling and RT paneling and replaced with CollisionGeometry
* Rotated RT and Power Node to their opposite sides to improve marine visibility
Turbine
* Reverted RT/TP location swap
Smelting
* Flipped Smelting EW, this is part of a larger strategy to restructure Smelting-Routing-Conduit as well as combat Smelting's terrible ARC susceptibility
General
* Fixed an enormous amount of ungrouped CommanderInvisible props and geometry to make our Commander friends much happier.
Starting on Pipeworks/Heatsink next.
Turbine
* Fixed map issue that allowed teams to start in Turbine
Furnace
* Added RT back in (temporarily, I think) for Balance while larger changes are pending
Smelting
* Fixed furnace from missing damage entity
* Fixed ladder from missing ladder entity