Just make the game Free2Play already?
EvilNess
Join Date: 2003-10-20 Member: 21811Members
Join Date: 2003-10-20 Member: 21811Members
I played NS1 from the moment it had its first public release, supported NS2 with an early pre-order and it makes me sad to see how dead the game is. Because lets be honest for as much as there is to complain about NS1 vs NS2, performance or gameplay decisions, NS2 is a well made game that if free and properly publicized could easily find an audience willing to play it actively.
I don't care that I bought it and the new people in this scenario would get to play for free. I just want people to play with / against, the game is dead, free to play isn't a guaranteed revival but it sure as hell won't hurt things. Mid-day on a Saturday and barely a single EU server with enough players to play a round.
So I say, what are you waiting for? Write-up a press release, put the price to free and lets reanimate this corpse!
PS. I know 2.0 is getting a "Free weekend" or "Free week" that's not going to cut it, just make the whole thing free permanently and monetize off cosmetics.
I don't care that I bought it and the new people in this scenario would get to play for free. I just want people to play with / against, the game is dead, free to play isn't a guaranteed revival but it sure as hell won't hurt things. Mid-day on a Saturday and barely a single EU server with enough players to play a round.
So I say, what are you waiting for? Write-up a press release, put the price to free and lets reanimate this corpse!
PS. I know 2.0 is getting a "Free weekend" or "Free week" that's not going to cut it, just make the whole thing free permanently and monetize off cosmetics.
Comments
There is not a single free to play game worth playing because they all suffer from at least one if not all of the following problems
- extremely toxic communities (like a billion times worse than it is now, which is already toxic enough)
- tedious grind mechanics (that you can pay cash to skip)
- Pay to win mechanics (like skins that make you super hard to see/track)
- overrun with hackers due to zero consequences
There is not a single positive aspect of making a game free to play... Especially a game like NS2 which has been out for so long and been on sale so many times..
ie most of the people who would take the game seriously already have it. The bulk of people you'd attract with free to play at this point are the "herp derp let's troll this game because I'm bored and it's free" crowd. (Not to mention the sit and idle for cards crowd)
Also let's not forget that NS1 was NOT free... You had to buy half life
You can still have a small community server and also an alive game. Sounds like what you are saying is you would rather have the game stay dead because sometimes a revival attempt doesn't work and people that don't buy a game are going to be bad at the game?
You know free to play guarantees none of these thing right? NS2 is packed with gated systems account levels, playtime limits but none of these currently serve any purpose because the game is dead and can fill maybe 2 servers at a time. If you actually have a large influx of new players these systems might serve a purpose and as for monetizing the game already has a cosmetics system so it would follow naturally that you do a DOTA2 style cosmetics only strategy.
No, going F2P is a sure way to kill the game for veterans. I already avoid F2P weekends because of the poor quality of the games. You're just extending that permanently.
I can see you have personal reasons for wanting to see NS2 stay a tiny closed community that slowly bleeds to death. All I can say is, I hope the devs see clearly that the choice is between appeasing a small subset of the ever shrinking community or giving it one last shot and try to give NS2 an actual playerbase.
Mjeh I read that, it made me hopeful, but unfortunately on the roadmap they list it as "free to play weekend or week" so I fear its going to be a continuation of the same old tried and failed strategy of big patch + big sale + free weekend = short term spike but doesn't reach critical mass.
I can see where you are coming from, but I'd say NS2 is in a somewhat unique position when it comes to points you've raised:
Usually the making it "worth while" includes recouping the development cost and or server running cost in a closed server ecosystem, NS2 should by now have already recouped its development costs and has an open server ecosystem. Furthermore as luck would have it this ecosystem has quite a bit of unused capacity with most of the 66 servers currently active sitting empty.
But granted if UW wanted to make a serious go of a free to play run they would likely have to spin a number of official servers dynamically to ensure every new player always has a place to play with a vanilla unmodded experience. (something that can be done using Amazon or Microsoft cloud services to reduce costs and increase flexibility)
As for switching to a "free to play" earning model I'd say the basics are in place already, simply build on the cosmetics system by allowing market selling of skins, buying of a blind box style "loot box" and increase the cosmetics sale offering.
Cheating is unfortunately always a problem, and undeniably so a greater problem for free to play with how easy it is to avoid the consequences of a ban. However I think NS2 has the basic systems in place already to start a system of account levels many servers already use access-gating for things like commanding based on your hours played or even skill rating. With some additions and tweaks the current system could be applied to making an account with a long history something you would not want to risk losing.
The other games you mention, CS:GO has a huge player base already but even so you can tell the devs are putting system in place for a potential free to play release should that ever change. Overwatch is a very difficult game to compare other games to, they coast on a core of Blizzard fans but run a completely closed server ecosystem. Almost all play happens via matchmaking systems making it hard to tell how active their playerbase is, before I stopped playing I noticed a definite increase in the queue times but that's pure anecdote. Generally speaking though I don't see NS2 ever making a revival to a self-sustaining point like Overwatch seems to have, NS2 needs big injection of players and the "Big patch + free weekend" method has been tried several times now with only temporary effects.
The first and fourth things I listed are a direct result of the game being free, so I beg to differ.
As Aeglos said, the game already turns into a toxic nightmare when it's a free weekend... Game is full of free players who don't communicate or make any effort whatsoever to learn the game (especially first time commanders!) because it's just a free title they're wasting some time in..
And I say all this as a very pro rookie individual. Rookies are great for the game, free players are not.
Here is a shining beacon of example that F2P done wrong results in nothing but a very, very dead game -
https://steamcharts.com/app/273350
Is this me saying "F2P shouldn't happen"?... No, it is me saying that IF F2P is going to happen, it should be done right, because it can only be done once.
This is a topic that has popped up again and again over the years and while I see the benefits, I also see the plethora of pitfalls that could destroy a game I love too... There are plenty of things being done to improve NS2, the roadmap to 2.0 shows a lot of really nice additions... is it going to make NS2 suddenly rival Overwatch in playernumbers? no, of course not... I doubt anything will.
Going F2P is a last attempt to save the game... currently development is funded by sales of both NS2 and of DLC, do you really want to cut the budget to risk F2P not working out how you idealize?
Toxic community is in no way a guarantee, for example cs:go has one of the most toxic communities on out there a purchase prices does nothing to stop that. Community will only be as toxic as you let it get, and if anything NS2 is setup to protect better to protect against toxic behavior because the server ecosystem is open so you could set your server up to only allow accounts of a certain playtime or age and ban those who misbehave.
As for "overrun with hackers" every game has cheating problems NS2 will simply have to shape its account level system into adding value to an account that has been active for longer and has a play history of good behavior. People will always cheat at any game letting a game slowly bleed to death because attempting to fix it might make "overrun with hackers" is nonsensical reasoning.
If done right (which for NS2 won't require too much change) free to play can save NS2, if the current course continues NS2 will slowly die (if by some peoples standards its not dead already).
Because evolve had another problem, it was a bad game and they took a ridiculously over the top route with their monetization.
Here is a shining example of a game that is slowly dying bleeding to death.
https://steamcharts.com/app/4920
The people that have responded to this thread so far with fervent anti-f2p posts all very much remind me of loyal dogs that go for a walk with their owner, then the owner has some kind of medical emergency and they stand there barking and growling at the ambulance crew. Sure it's admirable that you feel NS2 has something special you want to protect and preserve but if you keep it up you'll soon find yourself loyally protecting a grave.
At some point its time to face the facts NS2 has been running the "BIG PATCH + F2P weekend" strategy since it came out and doing more of it won't change the course. The NS2 development revival has been almost entirely funded by Subnautica, if not for its success UW wouldn't have the capital to risk hiring / keeping on a live team of devs for a game that has about 350~ concurrent players on a good day.
Because something has been discussed in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't be brought up again. This is an ongoing discussion and I felt it time to bring it to the forefront again with the release of 2.0 looming.
Looming? Did you look at the new road map? It is going to be quite awhile before we get there even with them bringing new devs on. There is a ton of work still to do. I am very excited for the news, the increased effort towards 2.0, but looming to me sounds like it is coming very soon. I don't think they will get there this year, but I really don't know. I think we are going to begin seeing some really impressive patches coming soon though.
If you looked at those old threads you would see that the community is generally is against free to play. You might have even found a dev response saying that free to play is not something that they plan to do at this time, but that they might consider it if all else fails. If that wasn't enough to tell you it wasn't going to happen, there is more. The money coming from NS2 sales at least partially pays for continued development. Without that money coming in they would probably quit development.
It isnt that free to play is really the worst thing, but that it is a very risky move. There is no garuntee that free to play for NS2 wouldn't turn out exactly like evolve. If it didn't work, that's all folks. Development would likely stop, the playerbase would probably dwindle faster, and we would be worse off. If it would work, wouldn't it be best to put our best foot forward by waiting until after NS2 2.0.
Sit down. Calm down. Free to play is not a new idea. It is not that the devs haven't considered it. The community at large doesn't appear to be interested in free to play, and the devs have clearly decided on a different direction. There is very little worth discussing about free to play because it has all been discussed at length in the past. Either add something new to this ongoing conversation or wait for new information that makes this conversations worth returning too.
That said, it may be worth taking another look at free to play after NS2 2.0.
The fact that you clearly misinterpret my cautionary statement as "anti-F2P" makes me not want to partake in this discussion with you... Because to the contrary, I argue in favour of F2P, but only if it is done right.
If you feel like climbing down off of your doomsday soapbox (a position held and abandoned by many people over the past 6 years) I'd happily debate, until then, I won't.
Final note - "The NS2 development revival has been almost entirely funded by Subnautica" <--- give sources for your statements... because I am almost 100% sure you are wrong here, I regularly talk with the Devs and have been told something very different to this... but of course, you're so sure of your position, you've probably already stopped reading.
What makes you think NS2 isn't a "bad game" to others?
I mean, there must be a reason that new players don't stay, besides all the initial performance issues and buggy patches right before free weekends.
As far as dying playerbase goes, well, if its either that or whatever comes from the weekend playerbase, I'll take that. To use your morbid example, if I had a stroke that severely limits me, I'd look into assisted suicide.
Double post, but I wanted to address this separately. How often do you think we should bump threads with nothing new said but we are passionate about? Ironhorse never got back to me on that. I know you mean that we should not rehash arguments, but that also implies that we should just let things be.
Fair question. I have spent more time on these forums in the last 5 years than I like to admit. We tend to always rotate between same set of topics, including free to play NS2. I think it can be good to bring subjects up again. What I don't like to see is the same discussion with nothing new. I usually would be inclined to sit quietly and let people say the same talking points they do every time the subject comes up, but I don't like this guys attitude. This guy is clearly very passionate about this, but he comes off all wrong in my opinion. There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting free to play NS2.
Similarly I tend to be a downer in some topics where people are trying to simply brainstorm. Sometimes I need to just recuse myself and let people do their thing. I think a lot of people forget about the implementation, dev time, opportunity cost, and if the solution is better done by a mod or server ops. A great example of this is nearly every discussion about shuffle. Shuffle is a shine mod. I see people asking for the NS2 devs to do something, but really shuffle is a shine mod. Brainstorming is great, but I want to see action eventually. People will post some awesome ideas but have no follow through, and the ideas go nowhere. Sometimes it might be better to ask the shine mod developers to add something, or a server op to change a setting because it will have a faster response time than waiting for the devs to do it. If it is something that only the devs can do, or the devs should do, then we really need to consider the hurdle of implementation because the devs have a lot on their plate.
I purposely brought up that nothing new has been said here before as a challenge to everyone, but especially @EvilNess, to break new ground. If he is going to bring this up, I want him to bring up something new. My last post was further trying to challenge him, or anyone else, to bring something new to this topic. This is such an old subject, with several past developer responses
He is going to really have to step up his game because right now he is getting nowhere. Please make this topic interesting again @EvilNess. If evilness can't break new ground, then he might as well go read those old threads and get his fix because nothing is going to change.
As the current NS2 dev team has stated a number of times, they are currently totally funded by sales of NS2 and related DLC. Subnautica sales do not affect their budget, and the team apparently get no additional funding from UWE whatsoever.
On a related note, NS2:Combat did go FTP recently to much fanfare, reddit posts, and discussion, and yet they only got 4 players at their recent peak. It did nothing to revive or save the game.
I am anti-F2P but am willing to accept a F2P program if:
1. NS2 is "finalized" and game is in its best shape
2. F2P players are forcefully segregated into their own servers, perhaps with gameplay limitations (no 20+ playercounts, whitelisted mods, and a limited maplist that rotates)
Yes this is gate-keeping at its finest, but we can always allow people to buy the game to remove such restrictions, and/or remove restrictions after a certain hive score and gametime is reached.
With this method we can reap the benefits of F2P player population without too much of its drawbacks. Basically the segregated servers will weed out all those that don't really click with the game while retaining players interested in sticking around. Sure, a lot of these players will have developed some bad habits, but that's another issue and topic in itself...
Because quality isn't about personal taste. You might like what NS2 is or you might not, but its gameplay quality is far superior to most other multiplayer shooters on the market.
Quality is, by definition, a qualitative measurement...
On the other hand, fire up the game after 6PM anywhere, and there are at least 3 full servers in the given region.
This means that more... khhhmm... mature? players are enjoying NS2, who usually have a dayjob.
And as many have already said before, I'd rather play with a few well-versed players than with a never-ending influx of rookies.
F2P will never work for NS2, because it will never have the player retention level needed, due to hybrid FPS+RTS.
All you would achieve with it is bloating the rookie player base, who never play again after a few hours.
Would you like more players in NS2?
Start a quality stream on twitch!
Well... we're at another level this time. I quote "fervent anti-f2p posts all very much remind me of loyal dogs that go for a walk with their owner,". It's another level don't you think ? Y'all " "loyal" " dogs
It's like candy. Free or not you spit it out if it taste bad. Or if you get bored with it. The thing is F2P or not a game has to keep its players interested long enough to harvest the fruits of fun.
Some things are directly linked to the fact that :
I rarely jump into the F2P threads. Simply because the problem never been about F2P or Paid game. It's about fun and interest. Sometimes it's the little things around the main engine that deserve attention. Those "decorations" from the industrial point of view are sometimes essential.
I don't see where your answer is relevant to my post?