What makes you think NS2 isn't a "bad game" to others?
Because quality isn't about personal taste. You might like what NS2 is or you might not, but its gameplay quality is far superior to most other multiplayer shooters on the market.
Quality is, by definition, a qualitative measurement...
I don't see where your answer is relevant to my post?
What makes you think NS2 isn't a "bad game" to others?
Because quality isn't about personal taste. You might like what NS2 is or you might not, but its gameplay quality is far superior to most other multiplayer shooters on the market.
Who cares? I'm not interested in whether NS2 or Evolve or any other games are objectively "good" or "bad" games. People have different tastes. They can just have "bad taste" and think NS2 is bad. Whether they are right or not is besides the point.
Also, vanilla NS2 may have possibly improved now, but it was pretty shit without NS2+ for most of its life. And the UWE Official servers back when we had more players were an experience in rubberbanding. Great game huh?
DePara when u say example of free 2 play game u took the WORST example and greediest game ever EVOLVE, developers had 150+ dollar worth of skins and shit ready to be pushed out before the 60 dollar game was even released not counting all dlc´s and them trying to re-drain the players going free...something crazy like that i heard couple years ago, but why not look at WARFRAME: https://steamcharts.com/app/230410
i cannot reccomend a game that have like 19 servers and half of them are empty when ns2 sits on 300 players, somehow removing the pay barrier and making amazing game free will somehow result in 0 players? i seriously doubt that if anything warframe was free and had 100000+ people at some point, but retaining 50k people even badly would be more beneficial and have longer lasting life of ns2 because a low playerbase would be 5000 people after that still better than now. when people try ns2 and even if they like it hardly have anyone to play with, that's how it dies just like last year it was 250 something players, allowing literally ANYONE buy skins or different badges or armors will bring in more than hoping the handful of people still playing this will generate enough revenue to even have a server up? even if somebody saw competitive ns2 and just wanna buy a badge or skins if he buys game that wont possibly happen, so lost sale but if game is available always to any demographic that is not only people playing game but also spending same amount or more in game they already are playing, i did not plan like okay 1 year after i buy ns2 i will invest in skins, but because i already play game and tell my friends to play it and they can since its not expensive but free then everyone might consider it. nothing extra have to be added, unless you make a separate ARSENAL tab where you can put on diamond or gold camo armor on flamethrower or just the pistol or different axes, balance 100% same nothing is pay to win but remains the same only that more than 300 can enjoy the product that slowly will dissipates into oblivion
when u say example of free 2 play game u took the WORST example and greediest game ever EVOLVE, developers had 150+ dollar worth of skins and shit ready to be pushed out before the 60 dollar game was even released not counting all dlc´s and them trying to re-drain the players going free...something crazy like that i heard couple years ago, but why not look at WARFRAME: https://steamcharts.com/app/230410
i cannot reccomend a game that have like 19 servers and half of them are empty when ns2 sits on 300 players, somehow removing the pay barrier and making amazing game free will somehow result in 0 players? i seriously doubt that if anything warframe was free and had 100000+ people at some point, but retaining 50k people even badly would be more beneficial and have longer lasting life of ns2 because a low playerbase would be 5000 people after that still better than now. when people try ns2 and even if they like it hardly have anyone to play with, that's how it dies just like last year it was 250 something players, allowing literally ANYONE buy skins or different badges or armors will bring in more than hoping the handful of people still playing this will generate enough revenue to even have a server up? even if somebody saw competitive ns2 and just wanna buy a badge or skins if he buys game that wont possibly happen, so lost sale but if game is available always to any demographic that is not only people playing game but also spending same amount or more in game they already are playing, i did not plan like okay 1 year after i buy ns2 i will invest in skins, but because i already play game and tell my friends to play it and they can since its not expensive but free then everyone might consider it. nothing extra have to be added, unless you make a separate ARSENAL tab where you can put on diamond or gold camo armor on flamethrower or just the pistol or different axes, balance 100% same nothing is pay to win but remains the same only that more than 300 can enjoy the product that slowly will dissipates into oblivion
yeah some "dude" posted evolve was such failure above (DEPARA) yes repost of stats years ago just read posts from before with link and all = ns2 will never work as free2play model? - i bet it will S T I L L provided you look at warframe not evolve time only proved how bad it was ofc but more games will be both bad and free not like ns2!
excuse me evolve was legit shit i tried it sure but sometimes on ns2 you build an extractor since everyone else runs off but it pays off when you win in the end i want everyone to experience that and we don't run in circles looking for footsteps 3 hours killing time everything have a purpose i dont even have time to drink something while everything is really going on in ns2! they are nothing alike but could still be both free
like its the best game that exists also instead of whatever price it goes for these days everyone can start playing it and instead of you getting 1 game sale and player get hardly any servers to play on as now, instead everyone will be on ns2 and the game sale you want upfront will be improving the looks or style for the new players getting skins or sick flamer spray paint to dye their flames the sky is the limit just be creative in a way that never intervene with the natural ns2 balance, sell cosmetic shit for all i care, i would buy it if the game was just out there for anyone to download.
Just click on the link. Or look through all your previous posts. Its basically you saying look at how well Evolve is doing and that NS2 should follow. Amazing how you have turned around on that huh?
And yes, I do play NS2. I'm sick and tired of half my team not defending res, holding lanes or recapping and instead humping phase gates or charging into a fortified area repeatedly without any cohesion but decide to follow me when I do so. Or having to choose between res biting and watch the aliens never get any kills or evolve to a lifeform and watch the aliens never res biting.
But no, building an extractor is such a sacrifice that I wonder why we get so many build bot gorges that clearly don't enjoy the game.
yeah what an idiot that radimax, how dare he want a game with hardly any players free, lol evolve was tripple AAA studio apperantly i classify ns2 as higher grade than that looking back but recently i put tons of hours into warframe so now i know the difference but if the servers are full on ns2 what else can you do right? that was when evolve news was released i hardly even remember what type of news was blasting about that game at the time and Unknown worlds have put wAaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more effort into their game that it would never flop as hard as evolve i still recommend warframe over any other free2play model out there unless NS2 ofc that if you like anything space related haha i dont reccomend evolve to anyone. Combat mode is a dead ship because £6.99 for basically a mod. even free im not sure it would be worth the hassle but real ns2 have so much more to give, and shame only 300 people get to experience that :P im all for making it accessable no matter evolve or warframe or combat
Here we go again, another "only f2p can save NS2" thread.
Ah wait, here are the steamcharts of the "bright future example" https://steamcharts.com/app/273350
yeah but look up warframe it got on a dead night same that evolve had at all time peak haha great example for 2018 maybe this should be the free 2 play example of the year? haha BIGGEST free2play i think must be warframe, not sure if its pve or rpg i kind of like it and people will try it anyway just because they CAN i could i played a little bit, was it not me he would prove wrong anyways statistics are fun especially that combat mod but evolve is propably still accessable on steam i havent looked it up since the one time i tried it for free but spent longer time in options than actually playing it, i assume that would be the case for ns2 as well? does that mean CANCEL ALL PLANS not that there was any haha never had a lobby full on that game (4 players) that seemed hard even back then so sticking to this and possibly some counterstrike, maybe 1 or 2 years from now i will hate warframe, we can all have more fun then haha i have like 6000+ hours more on NS2 than evolve(10) or warframe(500) combined think those figures shows what i prefer mostly but i kind of grew up on counter strike but after free2play weekend was introduced on ns2 i just kept playing that instead haha if that is not enough to make up your mind about a game? just get it anyway the more you play something the more you can enjoy it and for ns2 could be the game for everyone they just dont know it yet?
https://steamcharts.com/app/230410 i think with a graph like that strong even next year will be good but will see then so history dont repeat itself haha also watch radimax rage on WARFRAME coming soon...
After you failed hard with your "Evolve show us the way to save ns2" your new example is one of the most successfull games of this genre.
Congrats, you realizied that there successfull f2p games out there.
But you fail again on another level this time.
Every aspect of Warframe is designed around f2p. So the goal of developers was "Lets make a good f2p game"
NS2 is missing every aspect of good f2p games.
You know why some f2p games are really successfull?
I tell you the secret.
They have mechanics for a real player progression. More abilitys or better weapons over time.
"30 mins more please, i need to unlock this weapon", "8 kills more and i can have the new uber-charger ability"
Its just amazing that you really believe that every game can be a succesfull f2p, simply by adding some skins.
So you putting a spoiler on a old car an trying to compete with real sports cars? Good luck.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited September 2018
*my own views on this matter and not those of UWE or the wider CDT in anyway*
Glad to see this argument still carrying on since 2012 ! Going to take this thread slightly off topic
I have to admit I did raise the issue of F2P quite a few times during the early days of the CDT. I am not here to argue on its positives or negatives just admit that I did internally and that I dont think that NS2 is suitable for F2P in its present form.
Glad that I was wrong and the game is very much still alive. It has "STILL" an active playerbase, active development by UWE, future content on its way (more plant maps anyone?? )
Any game needs some sort of new content to help retain players / or even bring older players back, atleast for a while. With NS2 you can only go so far i.e.
Better performance / less bugs.
New maps - seems to be the best way to get new players / keep older ones. Throw in some nice custom skins to with each release. Has a bigger draw than "a new weapon or lifeform or balance changes" in my view
New game modes LS / SWS / Siege / Infested Marines etc - tried but they seem to not be popular outside of combat when it was a mod. Also have a lot less replayability than standard NS2, good for filling servers though!
New weapons or abilities, with NS2 this is quite hard to due.
Sales! though with the age of the game it will have a reduced effect on player counts, without any of the above list coinciding with a new sale.
However I can say that the release of new maps coincide with a bump in the active player count for a while if you look at steam charts. New maps generally released at the end of a month so check the month or two after each date.
There are a lot of custom maps out there, would they help keep people interested I would say yes. They do need to be given more of a spotlight by servers however, they help to keep things fresh etc.
New maps on a official level are a huge time sink and investment, hence why they take time to build. Custom maps can get there but requires a very willing commited mapper who quite happily takes feedback (both good and bad). UWE from my experience are interested in custom maps if you can meet UWEs standards. There are plenty of experienced mappers on here and discord that will help out if asked. But you need to ask.
2019 ??
2018 ??
2017 - No new maps. I had planned to complete Discovery but due to "reasons" the project died.
June 2016 - Caged
August 2015 - Derelict
May 2014 - Kodiak
August 2013 - Biodome
March 2013 - Descent
(...)
There are a lot of custom maps out there, would they help keep people interested I would say yes. They do need to be given more of a spotlight by servers * however, they help to keep things fresh etc.
I would add at '*' : " and by UWE officials".
What I've seen so far is people always asking for more custom maps but they never vote for them on server when they're available. Completely logical...
Most if not all of them will sh|t on any custom map for whatever reason (mostly when they loose), but will never do that for official maps (they find other reasons: "crappy team", "laaag"). It can be a 10 times better custom map than an official. The behavior stays constant.
The funny thing is that NS2 editor enables mappers to produce good quality content quite fast compared to other games. Of course as long as you master the tool. And this map content is completely free...
New maps on a official level are a huge time sink and investment, hence why they take time to build. Custom maps can get there but requires a very willing commited mapper who quite happily takes feedback (both good and bad). UWE from my experience are interested in custom maps if you can meet UWEs standards. There are plenty of experienced mappers on here and discord that will help out if asked. But you need to ask.
The UWE standards are more like "guidelines" as they said (and wrote in the docs).
Hmmm... Usually (there is still one or two exceptions) the players whine on the servers and never care to send any written test/feed-back content. Or explain with a decent logic what is wrong or what could be done here and there. It's like trying to communicate with illiterate people. The worst in this is that some of them are supposed to be adult people, and they are precisely the ones who beg for more maps...
The worst in this is that some of them are supposed to be adult people, and they are precisely the ones who beg for more maps...
"Adult" is just a euphemism for old babies :P
But yeah, there's origin, unearthed, two maps off the top of my head that are very well designed, but as soon as they get voted somehow, people start crying after the map-change.
I dont understand this phenomena either
People cry about custom maps being "bad" primarily because they don't know all the best ambush points or where to stand for the best sight lines.. They just want to play summit, tram, and veil endlessly because they know those maps, they know every perfect strategy and don't have to put in any effort to learn the map.
People cry about custom maps being "bad" primarily because they don't know all the best ambush points or where to stand for the best sight lines.. They just want to play summit, tram, and veil endlessly because they know those maps, they know every perfect strategy and don't have to put in any effort to learn the map.
Solution: make all custom maps become official maps.
I just wanna see those weathercock turn round and round...
lol@ ns2combat what a horrible disaster, they should have never made there own standalone since it was always part of NS1 and the core player-base won't start a new game simply to play combat, that and combined with horrible performance it was garbage. Free to play when no population = mistake. You would have thought it would have been obvious to Faultlinegames before hand as to what Flayra did with the move from NS1 to NS2, don't ostracize the existing playerbase and make sure you iron out performance issues before offical release.
Also my own thoughts in regards to how-to,
I suspect one option would be to increase amount of time that rookies need to play with rookies(as they often have fun regardless for the rookie servers so they can all get a balanced game going on and have some time to work out the game also allow people with higher time played to join these servers and command only. would need to have "community servers" option that is independent of the play now option with rookies now playing 100+hours on rookie servers without option to join higher hour servers unless they go into community servers option.
Might sound ridiculous but i've seen perhaps 12 - 30 hours rookies just never return becauase they venture into servers like [TA] or Aus servers and get demolished, they shouldn't be allowed to join those community servers unless they explicity go into community servers, i know you tried to do this via the "arcade tab" for the customer player amount servers, however that was far too early to be effective, you'd essentially need to have the play now feature for rookies with option for community servers sort of like what CSGO does(i know we have it already, but that is a bonus because it just needs interactivey , i actually never really went into community servers in CSGO simply because it was just easier and more fun to join a random pub and let the system handle it.
But since i have experience with NS2 it makes sense to simply connect via community servers and enjoy playing with people whom i've played with since early 2000's
Was just wondering with the customise player in the ESC menu is there was a way to see what you look like with your weapons etc? perhaps make an idle part in the menu or have an option to view 360 around it
sort of like what CSGO does(i know we have it already, but that is a bonus because it just needs interactivey , i actually never really went into community servers in CSGO simply because it was just easier and more fun to join a random pub and let the system handle it.
I would really like some vanilla servers that had guaranteed good perf, ping kicker, an actual chat box, etc. but we all know that isn't going to happen. It's way too expensive.
sort of like what CSGO does(i know we have it already, but that is a bonus because it just needs interactivey , i actually never really went into community servers in CSGO simply because it was just easier and more fun to join a random pub and let the system handle it.
I would really like some vanilla servers that had guaranteed good perf, ping kicker, an actual chat box, etc. but we all know that isn't going to happen. It's way too expensive.
That's because there are like 2 servers which are populated most nights right now which are garbage and the server ops dont know how to optimise it. It's not even too expensive at all as it takes one dedicated host and a decent computer for 3-4 servers, i dont't expect initial response to be huge, look at NS2 release, a shitload of poorly optimized official UWE servers hosted on garbage hardware, perhaps scale as needed, i know there are some solutions (look at OVH, insane peering and competitive pricing!)
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2018
Im sure every1 has own theory why NS2 never reached a large playerbase.
Thats another thing: You need to know why the playerbase was always low but steady before going f2p.
Here are my top 3 reasons:
Performance: After all the time, the game still feels strange compared to other shooters
Skill segregation: Its to late now cause low playerbase, but this is essential for an succesfull shooter (especial for f2p)
Learning Curve: My Nr1. NS2 is just to complex for the typical casual.
Im sure most new players stopped playing after aroun 20 hrs mark.
These players didnt care about Healthbars, Changed Hitboxes, arcade tabs or all the drama threads we had here in the past.
This type of player NEED progression systems, they just cant play a game where the only progression is: Invest time to get better.
And cause all these aspects (and more) + missing server infrastructure + the stuff ghoul wrote above, NS2 will fail hard like Combat if it go the f2p way only with some extra skins.
Im sure every1 has own theory why NS2 never reached a large playerbase.
Thats another thing: You need to know why the playerbase was always low but steady before going f2p.
Here are my top 3 reasons:
Performance: After all the time, the game still feels strange compared to other shooters
Skill segregation: Its to late now cause low playerbase, but this is essential for an succesfull shooter (especial for f2p)
Learning Curve: My Nr1. NS2 is just to complex for the typical casual.
Yes and yes! Learning curve? Mmmh, yes. But I don't think it's too complex. Other games have been successful while being complex. And I can list a few simple games that suffer too. NS2 does arguably have too many hidden mechanics though. But whether the game is simple or complex is less important vs whether it is fun or not imo.
To add to your point about progression, it's not just new players that lack a progression system. Even if you're a competitive player, there is not much to strive for in this current competitive climate. No cups to train for, no prizes, no notable achievements. This is something I believe we as the community need to work better at. If the game is to go F2P, we should make sure that there is a vibrant competitive scene to drive mid and high tier players.
Also I want to make a little point. We actually used to have a form of skill segregation, do you remember @dePARA ? It was called HBZ pubs and it was a fantastic server. You got more consistently better games there than you did on gathers, and that was with a pretty elementary shuffle system. This goes to show, that we don't necessarily NEED a skill segregation system (although it would be nice!), the community CAN self-regulate these things.
Yes and yes! Learning curve? Mmmh, yes. But I don't think it's too complex.
I'd separate that into two issues:
Game complexity and team interaction.
The game rules are not complex at all, so you're right about that.
But the team interaction is very difficult (compared to other games) because you need a balance of aggression, map awareness and decent commanding.
You need to know the nuances of the game to anticipate not only the reaction of the enemy, but your teammates too. And because of the multi-level interaction, it is compounded in NS2.
You got more consistently better games there than you did on gathers, and that was with a pretty elementary shuffle system.
Well, the shuffle system that time was based on Ns2Stats with slight mofifications by me.
I personally still didnt like the current "skill" system based on winning.
The goal of the HBZ shuffle was to find the 4 carry players and to split them. Ns2stats had all the Data for this.
The next 8 players shuffled around these 2 per team based on there average kdr of the last 5 rounds, and the remaining 6 just shuffled.
So it was a mix of different type of data.
I am sure the exact values where slightly different but i forgot the exact ones. But it was something that way.
Your so called "elementary" shuffle system took month to find the correct values
It was still not perfect, but indeed much better than the current one (only my opinion)
Sadly, the thing that has kept ns2 alive is the same one that has prevented it to succeed, and this is the server browser system:
The fact that new players can't join their friends in the Main Menu of the game and choose "play a Marine game" or "play an Alien game" is one of the big problems ns2 has always had. And the fact that every game has a different number of players in each team creates the feeling that this is not a serious game.
I can't imagine Overwatch, League of Legends or any other serious game having different player counts in every match. It could be fun to play maybe, but they don't even allow it as a mod. They only release "special gamemodes" for 1 or 2 weeks.
Also I want to make a little point. We actually used to have a form of skill segregation, do you remember @dePARA ? It was called HBZ pubs and it was a fantastic server. You got more consistently better games there
HBZ was probably the best server in NS2 history. And it was so by its skill segregation. I remember voluntarily leaving the server after helping to populate it just to let better players to join.
But this kind of skill segregation nowadays it's impossible. Because it requires a strong server community willing to seed the server for hours. Bicsum tried to revive HBZ 1 or 2 years ago and it failed because no one wants to seed a server even when they know that the quality of the game will be far superior.
That is one of the other reasons why big servers (12v12) became the "standard" pub servers. Because when a few players leave you still have enough people to play and the server don't die.
So nowadays the only kind of skill segregation that we have in the game is to play at night and wait for a slot at Thirsty Onos, because you know that it consistently has good players and good performance, so you're forced to play there even if you don't like large servers.
What makes you think NS2 isn't a "bad game" to others?
Because quality isn't about personal taste. You might like what NS2 is or you might not, but its gameplay quality is far superior to most other multiplayer shooters on the market.
The thing is, is has depth, it has a skill based performance level and it has Gorges. But all those combined still make this a niche game, which simply will not appeal to the bulk of gamers who want instant gratification and simple rock paper scissors scenarios.
NS/NS2 are very unfair games towards lower skilled players and teams. Compounded by the fact that a competent commander is required and losing your gun/mech/lifeform you've saved for because you died or when the other team starts to snowball, making you increasingly useless towards endgame based on team related losses. These are all HUGE nono's in terms of casual gaming lands, which is where the big bucks and big bulk tends to live. Also the individual skill has a bigger impact the smaller the player count on a server, 8v8 servers are scarier than 12v12 or NS2Large, which I assume still perform like poop?
NS2 FREE2PLAY is not a magic bullet, mostly because the game isn't tailered towards the F2P model and because F2P players simply don't want to dedicate time and effort to learn a game to even be a little bit competent. They (and casuals) aren't going to be as involved into a game such as this. Which tends to result in "playing marines/aliens, while calling marines/aliens OP" -> frustration -> uninstall...
I know NS/NS2 can be very satisfying if you've got skilled players toning it down notch to lead or teach newbies.
However the mere fact that the risk vs rewards factor in NS is like trying to jump the Grand Canyon, which will always be a deterrent towards most gamers
...and because F2P players simply don't want to dedicate time and effort to learn a game to even be a little bit competent. They (and casuals) aren't going to be as involved into a game such as this.
I agree with everything else you said except this part. F2P doesn't inherently mean people won't dedicate time and effort into games. Look at all the mobas like dota 2, league of legends, and HotS. Look at the amount of time and effort people put into Tf2 by looking at the competitive leagues on twitch. F2P games can be made right to encourage skill based gameplay.
That being said.... NS2 isn't that game. F2P doesn't fit within NS2's culture and frankly the only major thing I think it would do to the game is making hacking even worse of a problem.
Comments
I think the missing word was "subjective".
Who cares? I'm not interested in whether NS2 or Evolve or any other games are objectively "good" or "bad" games. People have different tastes. They can just have "bad taste" and think NS2 is bad. Whether they are right or not is besides the point.
Also, vanilla NS2 may have possibly improved now, but it was pretty shit without NS2+ for most of its life. And the UWE Official servers back when we had more players were an experience in rubberbanding. Great game huh?
Just read this:
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2333790/#Comment_2333790
Nothing more to say about this.
Ah wait, here are the steamcharts of the "bright future example"
https://steamcharts.com/app/273350
https://steamcharts.com/app/310110
And another -
https://steamcharts.com/app/350280
i cannot reccomend a game that have like 19 servers and half of them are empty when ns2 sits on 300 players, somehow removing the pay barrier and making amazing game free will somehow result in 0 players? i seriously doubt that if anything warframe was free and had 100000+ people at some point, but retaining 50k people even badly would be more beneficial and have longer lasting life of ns2 because a low playerbase would be 5000 people after that still better than now. when people try ns2 and even if they like it hardly have anyone to play with, that's how it dies just like last year it was 250 something players, allowing literally ANYONE buy skins or different badges or armors will bring in more than hoping the handful of people still playing this will generate enough revenue to even have a server up? even if somebody saw competitive ns2 and just wanna buy a badge or skins if he buys game that wont possibly happen, so lost sale but if game is available always to any demographic that is not only people playing game but also spending same amount or more in game they already are playing, i did not plan like okay 1 year after i buy ns2 i will invest in skins, but because i already play game and tell my friends to play it and they can since its not expensive but free then everyone might consider it. nothing extra have to be added, unless you make a separate ARSENAL tab where you can put on diamond or gold camo armor on flamethrower or just the pistol or different axes, balance 100% same nothing is pay to win but remains the same only that more than 300 can enjoy the product that slowly will dissipates into oblivion
LOLWUT? Evolve was your example.
Warframe as far as I know is a PvE RPG grinder and is closer to games like Guild Wars and WoW. It has zero relation to NS2. Try again.
excuse me evolve was legit shit i tried it sure but sometimes on ns2 you build an extractor since everyone else runs off but it pays off when you win in the end
like its the best game that exists also instead of whatever price it goes for these days everyone can start playing it and instead of you getting 1 game sale and player get hardly any servers to play on as now, instead everyone will be on ns2 and the game sale you want upfront will be improving the looks or style for the new players getting skins or sick flamer spray paint to dye their flames the sky is the limit just be creative in a way that never intervene with the natural ns2 balance, sell cosmetic shit for all i care, i would buy it if the game was just out there for anyone to download.
And yes, I do play NS2. I'm sick and tired of half my team not defending res, holding lanes or recapping and instead humping phase gates or charging into a fortified area repeatedly without any cohesion but decide to follow me when I do so. Or having to choose between res biting and watch the aliens never get any kills or evolve to a lifeform and watch the aliens never res biting.
But no, building an extractor is such a sacrifice that I wonder why we get so many build bot gorges that clearly don't enjoy the game.
yeah but look up warframe it got on a dead night same that evolve had at all time peak haha great example for 2018 maybe this should be the free 2 play example of the year? haha BIGGEST free2play i think must be warframe, not sure if its pve or rpg i kind of like it and people will try it anyway just because they CAN i could i played a little bit, was it not me he would prove wrong anyways statistics are fun especially that combat mod but evolve is propably still accessable on steam i havent looked it up since the one time i tried it for free but spent longer time in options than actually playing it, i assume that would be the case for ns2 as well? does that mean CANCEL ALL PLANS not that there was any haha never had a lobby full on that game (4 players) that seemed hard even back then so sticking to this and possibly some counterstrike, maybe 1 or 2 years from now i will hate warframe, we can all have more fun then haha i have like 6000+ hours more on NS2 than evolve(10) or warframe(500) combined think those figures shows what i prefer mostly but i kind of grew up on counter strike but after free2play weekend was introduced on ns2 i just kept playing that instead haha if that is not enough to make up your mind about a game? just get it anyway the more you play something the more you can enjoy it and for ns2 could be the game for everyone they just dont know it yet?
https://steamcharts.com/app/230410 i think with a graph like that strong even next year will be good but will see then so history dont repeat itself haha also watch radimax rage on WARFRAME coming soon...
After you failed hard with your "Evolve show us the way to save ns2" your new example is one of the most successfull games of this genre.
Congrats, you realizied that there successfull f2p games out there.
But you fail again on another level this time.
Every aspect of Warframe is designed around f2p. So the goal of developers was "Lets make a good f2p game"
NS2 is missing every aspect of good f2p games.
You know why some f2p games are really successfull?
I tell you the secret.
They have mechanics for a real player progression. More abilitys or better weapons over time.
"30 mins more please, i need to unlock this weapon", "8 kills more and i can have the new uber-charger ability"
Its just amazing that you really believe that every game can be a succesfull f2p, simply by adding some skins.
So you putting a spoiler on a old car an trying to compete with real sports cars? Good luck.
Glad to see this argument still carrying on since 2012 ! Going to take this thread slightly off topic
I have to admit I did raise the issue of F2P quite a few times during the early days of the CDT. I am not here to argue on its positives or negatives just admit that I did internally and that I dont think that NS2 is suitable for F2P in its present form.
Glad that I was wrong and the game is very much still alive. It has "STILL" an active playerbase, active development by UWE, future content on its way (more plant maps anyone??
Any game needs some sort of new content to help retain players / or even bring older players back, atleast for a while. With NS2 you can only go so far i.e.
Better performance / less bugs.
New maps - seems to be the best way to get new players / keep older ones. Throw in some nice custom skins to with each release. Has a bigger draw than "a new weapon or lifeform or balance changes" in my view
New game modes LS / SWS / Siege / Infested Marines etc - tried but they seem to not be popular outside of combat when it was a mod. Also have a lot less replayability than standard NS2, good for filling servers though!
New weapons or abilities, with NS2 this is quite hard to due.
Sales! though with the age of the game it will have a reduced effect on player counts, without any of the above list coinciding with a new sale.
However I can say that the release of new maps coincide with a bump in the active player count for a while if you look at steam charts. New maps generally released at the end of a month so check the month or two after each date.
There are a lot of custom maps out there, would they help keep people interested I would say yes. They do need to be given more of a spotlight by servers however, they help to keep things fresh etc.
New maps on a official level are a huge time sink and investment, hence why they take time to build. Custom maps can get there but requires a very willing commited mapper who quite happily takes feedback (both good and bad). UWE from my experience are interested in custom maps if you can meet UWEs standards. There are plenty of experienced mappers on here and discord that will help out if asked. But you need to ask.
2019 ??
2018 ??
2017 - No new maps. I had planned to complete Discovery but due to "reasons" the project died.
June 2016 - Caged
August 2015 - Derelict
May 2014 - Kodiak
August 2013 - Biodome
March 2013 - Descent
What I've seen so far is people always asking for more custom maps but they never vote for them on server when they're available. Completely logical...
Most if not all of them will sh|t on any custom map for whatever reason (mostly when they loose), but will never do that for official maps (they find other reasons: "crappy team", "laaag"). It can be a 10 times better custom map than an official. The behavior stays constant.
The funny thing is that NS2 editor enables mappers to produce good quality content quite fast compared to other games. Of course as long as you master the tool. And this map content is completely free...
The UWE standards are more like "guidelines" as they said (and wrote in the docs).
Hmmm... Usually (there is still one or two exceptions) the players whine on the servers and never care to send any written test/feed-back content. Or explain with a decent logic what is wrong or what could be done here and there. It's like trying to communicate with illiterate people. The worst in this is that some of them are supposed to be adult people, and they are precisely the ones who beg for more maps...
"Adult" is just a euphemism for old babies :P
But yeah, there's origin, unearthed, two maps off the top of my head that are very well designed, but as soon as they get voted somehow, people start crying after the map-change.
I dont understand this phenomena either
I just wanna see those weathercock turn round and round...
Please keep in mind that at the time, NS2:Combat wasn't free (like it is now) and the combat mod wasn't available in ns2 (like it is now)
This is one option, or you choose the radimax way and end like this:
https://steamcharts.com/app/310110
Also my own thoughts in regards to how-to,
I suspect one option would be to increase amount of time that rookies need to play with rookies(as they often have fun regardless for the rookie servers so they can all get a balanced game going on and have some time to work out the game also allow people with higher time played to join these servers and command only. would need to have "community servers" option that is independent of the play now option with rookies now playing 100+hours on rookie servers without option to join higher hour servers unless they go into community servers option.
Might sound ridiculous but i've seen perhaps 12 - 30 hours rookies just never return becauase they venture into servers like [TA] or Aus servers and get demolished, they shouldn't be allowed to join those community servers unless they explicity go into community servers, i know you tried to do this via the "arcade tab" for the customer player amount servers, however that was far too early to be effective, you'd essentially need to have the play now feature for rookies with option for community servers sort of like what CSGO does(i know we have it already, but that is a bonus because it just needs interactivey
But since i have experience with NS2 it makes sense to simply connect via community servers and enjoy playing with people whom i've played with since early 2000's
Was just wondering with the customise player in the ESC menu is there was a way to see what you look like with your weapons etc? perhaps make an idle part in the menu or have an option to view 360 around it
I would really like some vanilla servers that had guaranteed good perf, ping kicker, an actual chat box, etc. but we all know that isn't going to happen. It's way too expensive.
That's because there are like 2 servers which are populated most nights right now which are garbage and the server ops dont know how to optimise it. It's not even too expensive at all as it takes one dedicated host and a decent computer for 3-4 servers, i dont't expect initial response to be huge, look at NS2 release, a shitload of poorly optimized official UWE servers hosted on garbage hardware, perhaps scale as needed, i know there are some solutions (look at OVH, insane peering and competitive pricing!)
Thats another thing: You need to know why the playerbase was always low but steady before going f2p.
Here are my top 3 reasons:
Performance: After all the time, the game still feels strange compared to other shooters
Skill segregation: Its to late now cause low playerbase, but this is essential for an succesfull shooter (especial for f2p)
Learning Curve: My Nr1. NS2 is just to complex for the typical casual.
Im sure most new players stopped playing after aroun 20 hrs mark.
These players didnt care about Healthbars, Changed Hitboxes, arcade tabs or all the drama threads we had here in the past.
This type of player NEED progression systems, they just cant play a game where the only progression is: Invest time to get better.
And cause all these aspects (and more) + missing server infrastructure + the stuff ghoul wrote above, NS2 will fail hard like Combat if it go the f2p way only with some extra skins.
To add to your point about progression, it's not just new players that lack a progression system. Even if you're a competitive player, there is not much to strive for in this current competitive climate. No cups to train for, no prizes, no notable achievements. This is something I believe we as the community need to work better at. If the game is to go F2P, we should make sure that there is a vibrant competitive scene to drive mid and high tier players.
Also I want to make a little point. We actually used to have a form of skill segregation, do you remember @dePARA ? It was called HBZ pubs and it was a fantastic server. You got more consistently better games there than you did on gathers, and that was with a pretty elementary shuffle system. This goes to show, that we don't necessarily NEED a skill segregation system (although it would be nice!), the community CAN self-regulate these things.
I'd separate that into two issues:
Game complexity and team interaction.
The game rules are not complex at all, so you're right about that.
But the team interaction is very difficult (compared to other games) because you need a balance of aggression, map awareness and decent commanding.
You need to know the nuances of the game to anticipate not only the reaction of the enemy, but your teammates too. And because of the multi-level interaction, it is compounded in NS2.
Well, the shuffle system that time was based on Ns2Stats with slight mofifications by me.
I personally still didnt like the current "skill" system based on winning.
The goal of the HBZ shuffle was to find the 4 carry players and to split them. Ns2stats had all the Data for this.
The next 8 players shuffled around these 2 per team based on there average kdr of the last 5 rounds, and the remaining 6 just shuffled.
So it was a mix of different type of data.
I am sure the exact values where slightly different but i forgot the exact ones. But it was something that way.
Your so called "elementary" shuffle system took month to find the correct values
It was still not perfect, but indeed much better than the current one (only my opinion)
The fact that new players can't join their friends in the Main Menu of the game and choose "play a Marine game" or "play an Alien game" is one of the big problems ns2 has always had. And the fact that every game has a different number of players in each team creates the feeling that this is not a serious game.
I can't imagine Overwatch, League of Legends or any other serious game having different player counts in every match. It could be fun to play maybe, but they don't even allow it as a mod. They only release "special gamemodes" for 1 or 2 weeks.
HBZ was probably the best server in NS2 history. And it was so by its skill segregation. I remember voluntarily leaving the server after helping to populate it just to let better players to join.
But this kind of skill segregation nowadays it's impossible. Because it requires a strong server community willing to seed the server for hours. Bicsum tried to revive HBZ 1 or 2 years ago and it failed because no one wants to seed a server even when they know that the quality of the game will be far superior.
That is one of the other reasons why big servers (12v12) became the "standard" pub servers. Because when a few players leave you still have enough people to play and the server don't die.
So nowadays the only kind of skill segregation that we have in the game is to play at night and wait for a slot at Thirsty Onos, because you know that it consistently has good players and good performance, so you're forced to play there even if you don't like large servers.
The thing is, is has depth, it has a skill based performance level and it has Gorges. But all those combined still make this a niche game, which simply will not appeal to the bulk of gamers who want instant gratification and simple rock paper scissors scenarios.
NS/NS2 are very unfair games towards lower skilled players and teams. Compounded by the fact that a competent commander is required and losing your gun/mech/lifeform you've saved for because you died or when the other team starts to snowball, making you increasingly useless towards endgame based on team related losses. These are all HUGE nono's in terms of casual gaming lands, which is where the big bucks and big bulk tends to live. Also the individual skill has a bigger impact the smaller the player count on a server, 8v8 servers are scarier than 12v12 or NS2Large, which I assume still perform like poop?
NS2 FREE2PLAY is not a magic bullet, mostly because the game isn't tailered towards the F2P model and because F2P players simply don't want to dedicate time and effort to learn a game to even be a little bit competent. They (and casuals) aren't going to be as involved into a game such as this. Which tends to result in "playing marines/aliens, while calling marines/aliens OP" -> frustration -> uninstall...
I know NS/NS2 can be very satisfying if you've got skilled players toning it down notch to lead or teach newbies.
However the mere fact that the risk vs rewards factor in NS is like trying to jump the Grand Canyon, which will always be a deterrent towards most gamers
I agree with everything else you said except this part. F2P doesn't inherently mean people won't dedicate time and effort into games. Look at all the mobas like dota 2, league of legends, and HotS. Look at the amount of time and effort people put into Tf2 by looking at the competitive leagues on twitch. F2P games can be made right to encourage skill based gameplay.
That being said.... NS2 isn't that game. F2P doesn't fit within NS2's culture and frankly the only major thing I think it would do to the game is making hacking even worse of a problem.