<!--QuoteBegin--Mellonpopr+Dec 31 2002, 11:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mellonpopr @ Dec 31 2002, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you can learn alot from hanging around in #nsserver on gamesnet<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i'm not going to sit on an IRC channel and read the entire thing for a glips of the future. I use the forums because its an easy way to read alot of opinions in a small amount of time.
i bet better ways to waste my time then sit on a IRC channel reading endless lines of "lol" and "IMO"
<!--QuoteBegin--cracker jackmac+Dec 30 2002, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cracker jackmac @ Dec 30 2002, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flaya has a great mod in his hands, he's working hard (or so we assume), but patches must be release asap because its in its first beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought this was suppose to be release 1, not beta 1?
Either way it is a great concept, and the NS team has done some great work. I just hope they are not going thru the 'God these people are ingrates' phase, which is something that all people that offer things to the public go thru. I know it would slow my work down.
FamDiaper-Wearing Dog On A BallJoin Date: 2002-02-17Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Release, beta, it does not matter what it is called. The point being it is still being tested and still being worked upon. Very much like an MMORPG, or any other online-only release. Things will continue to improve. I have faith in that.
I could have sworn they made it clear that it was not a beta release, but release. Not trying to say they made a bad release, all games get patches. Look at BF1942, Global Ops, etc. Heck, NS was a better release then all of those just mentioned.
Let me restart off posting in this thread by saying I really luv NS. And I can and am living with all the linux bugs. I also think they have done and are doing a great job. But what has me annoyed, and I stated it already in a post. Is that the dev team wont even acknowledge there is a problem with linux optimization. The optimization differances between windows and linux should be a priority fix. Unless you want to errode your server base before the game even has a chance to get started.
All they had todo was reply to one of the many posts complaining about it saying, "Yes we know there is some problems with the linux server. And we are addressing them." And everyone would be content and happy to wait. But ignoring the problem and everyones questions and posts about it, is a sure way to really **obscenity** off that group of ppl. And even to this date, they havent admitted they're is a problem,(all the say is we are working on optimization for BOTH servers) Nor have they said they will address the problem. Or said anythng at all about fixxing linux. Other then to state that they will update thier old compilers and glibc libs. (with a complaint about how much work that will be for them) So as I stated before, I think they could care less about the linux server, or the admins running it on linux. Especially after another week of silence on the topic.
And you can not compare this problem to other games servers. Their versions, be it linux, mac, or winblows are all running at the same level. And if Linux and Windows servers for NS where running at the same level. We wouldent even be disscussing this. The problem is the dev team has and is countinuing to give the impression of supporting windows first, and linux, well maybe if I'm borred one night, I'll look into it. Because its really gonna be alot of work for me to update my system to what it should be running already.
All this could have been avoiding with a little communication on the dev teams part. Whats the point of havening a server-op forum, if you never post in it. And ppl have been polite and constructive since 1.02 created this drastic differances in the 2 os's. How much effort would it have taken to simply make a post acknowledging the problem and letting the severops know you will fix it. Instead you have ppl trying to deffend there lack of post on the problem and ppls growing frustration over being ignored, by useing statements like "we can assume". Well rather then assumeing, I used logic to come to the conclusion, the only reason they wont post is because they don't care about havening linux servers running their mod. At least thats the impression they are giving.
I truly hope I'm wrong. As i really like this mod, and can see it growing into a great community. But lacking support for the servers and admins running the mod for them...... And for these ppl who are offended because they somehow see this a bashing Flays work. What about all the work, effort, and resources, we the server ops are putting into this mod to help it grow? There should be alott better communication between the dev team and the admins running servers. Because without both working togther, You wont have a game.
EDIT: This is the last time I will post anything concerning this topic. I will wait and see if they prove me wrong(god I hope so). Becasue I would rather not del the NS server from my dedicated box. But I also don't want to beat the snott of of my 2 gig cpu, by havening it running at 75-100% all the time. Just because I choose to use linux. An OS I personally believe is better suited to networking then winblows.
You get the same thing over and over and over and over again.....
You r0x0r!!!
Mod runs fine. Get some real hardware.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you speak as if money grows on trees. I have an XP2000 which SHOULD be more than enough to run 2 18client CS server or a 30 player DoD server.
you shouldn't be allowed to open your mouth w/o first researching your post.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What are you running for a connection? The server I run is a P4 1.6GHz 512MB DDRAM. Absolutely no lag. The days of dual 400MHz servers are gone. I don't understand why you are flaming me when I am backing up Flayra. Why don't you RTFM and read Flayra's post on server specs/connection speeds and you'll see where i get this "research" from. There are so many things that the server needs to keep track of. Keep this in mind:
A turret happy commander Motion Tracking Scent of Fear
This info has to be sent to the entire team constantly and or all clients, which would put a server to 100% utlization. Look at CS, CS doesn't have any of the above features. Do you currently run any servers other than CS, DoD, NS etc??? Try running BF1942. Its the same thing. It all comes down to what the server needs to keep track of and relay them to all the connected clients. Many developers will agree to this. Either Win32 or Linux your going to have this problem. I have run both types of NS servers, and they both run the same way.
Oh and "you shouldn't be allowed to open your mouth w/o first researching your post."
<!--QuoteBegin--[Ht]Nickoli+Dec 31 2002, 01:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([Ht]Nickoli @ Dec 31 2002, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Other then to state that they will update thier old compilers and glibc libs. (with a complaint about how much work that will be for them)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which on a decent distribution is 1/10th the trouble of upgrading to the latest compiler and libraries as it is under Windows. For example, Debian: apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
Red Hat: up2date
There, libraries updated, compiler updated. What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?
My connectio is fine, I run an XP2000+ on my linux box with 640MB ram.
there is lag in some cases as you mentioned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you currently run any servers other than CS, DoD, NS etc???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
off topic, its not even HL related, don't bring it back up...plz
The fact of the matter is that linux performance blows...thast what this post is about, not opimization or tuning. My pipe if fine and its tweaked already. You cannot do anything else to my server besides strip it of AM and LogD. Everyone is having major issues here. Telling us to go get real hardware is not the solution.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It all comes down to what the server needs to keep track of and relay them to all the connected clients. Many developers will agree to this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes...may i say duh? i think so. But thats not the point of this post!! Its the fact that a doze server gets 30-50% cpu usage and a linux server gets 60-97% cpu usage. Linux IS a better memory manager, it shouldn't be that high. Flaya is using an old compiler/sdk/glibs on his linux system (so we've been told).
its the gap in performance thats the problem, not that we don't have "real hardware". Because alot of us actually upgraded our hardware just to run this great mod!!
Don't tell me to think twice, read the forums before you post silly statements plz.
Just a reminder guys: NS is the result of donated time and effort. Do not make demands, theaten to delete NS from your server, etc. Make your critcisms constructive, and be careful with your tone.
<!--QuoteBegin--greydmiyu+Dec 31 2002, 03:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (greydmiyu @ Dec 31 2002, 03:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--[Ht]Nickoli+Dec 31 2002, 01:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([Ht]Nickoli @ Dec 31 2002, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Other then to state that they will update thier old compilers and glibc libs. (with a complaint about how much work that will be for them)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which on a decent distribution is 1/10th the trouble of upgrading to the latest compiler and libraries as it is under Windows. For example, Debian: apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
Red Hat: up2date
There, libraries updated, compiler updated. What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> even then its not that hard!!
wget <i>i dunno the web addy</i>
tar xzf newgcc.tgz
cd newgcc
./configure --quiet make && make test && make install
repeatx3 for the lib updates (glibs, libc, and i can't remember)
<!--QuoteBegin--greydmiyu+Dec 31 2002, 02:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (greydmiyu @ Dec 31 2002, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't diss the Slack, lest you incur the wrath of its followers! Some of us prefer to avoid dependency-hell by doing everything by hand, at least on our workstations.
You youngins and your apt-get and your RPMs and your up2date. Back in my day, if we wanted a new cc, we wrote one! (with a well-worn copy of the Dragon book propped open)
Nowadays, us server ops just cvsup; make buildworld; make installworld. Wait, you people are actually running Linux, and not running hlds using FreeBSD's Linux binary-compatibility? Oh how I feel for your poor servers... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--verbose+Dec 31 2002, 04:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (verbose @ Dec 31 2002, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--greydmiyu+Dec 31 2002, 02:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (greydmiyu @ Dec 31 2002, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't diss the Slack, lest you incur the wrath of its followers! Some of us prefer to avoid dependency-hell by doing everything by hand, at least on our workstations.
You youngins and your apt-get and your RPMs and your up2date. Back in my day, if we wanted a new cc, we wrote one! (with a well-worn copy of the Dragon book propped open)
Nowadays, us server ops just cvsup; make buildworld; make installworld. Wait, you people are actually running Linux, and not running hlds using FreeBSD's Linux binary-compatibility? Oh how I feel for your poor servers... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL, i hear its worse performance on BSD
A better performance of ns is desirable, but you ppl are missing the point.
The fact is NS has became quite popular in a minimal time lapse and is still a mod developed by only one person. BF1942 or UT2k3 has been developed by dozens of professional guys with lots of experience and $$$ to burn.
CS or even DoD Beta 2 did not performed much better on its earlier versions and the mechanics of these games are much more simplier....
<!--QuoteBegin--cracker jackmac+Dec 31 2002, 02:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cracker jackmac @ Dec 31 2002, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[QUOTE=greydmiyu,Dec 31 2002, 03:41 PM][QUOTE=[Ht]Nickoli,Dec 31 2002, 01:30 PM]What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?[/QUOTE] even then its not that hard!!
wget <i>i dunno the web addy</i> tar xzf newgcc.tgz cd newgcc ./configure --quiet make && make test && make install<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> pssh. Slack does have package management system, for when we users get really lazy:
<!--QuoteBegin--cracker jackmac+Dec 31 2002, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cracker jackmac @ Dec 31 2002, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LOL, i hear its worse performance on BSD<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You heard wrong. Many linux apps even run faster under FreeBSD. This is not emulation, this is an alternate system call vector. And even if performance was a bit worse, I'd still run it under FreeBSD (can't speak for NetBSD, OpenBSD, etc. They're not the same game, guys) due to the maturity of the networking tools, system management, stability, ports tree, etc. etc. To each his own, though.
<!--QuoteBegin--cracker jackmac+Dec 31 2002, 03:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cracker jackmac @ Dec 31 2002, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But i heard HLDS ran like crap is what i ment...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ran a CS server for a long time just fine. I still have the high CPU utilization problem that other Linux users currently have with NS, but other than that, things are dandy. I haven't done a side-by-side, Linux vs. FreeBSD HLDS showdown, but my gut analysis is that there's no substantial difference. If I find myself bored some weekend, maybe I'll run some tests and burn some numbers.
You can run 3 18 Player CS servers on a P4 2ghz with 512Mb ram, or 1 NS server. From what I hear the NS Win server is better. I am sure they are looking into it and will have it fixed when they have time.
<!--QuoteBegin--Brutus+Dec 31 2002, 03:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brutus @ Dec 31 2002, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can run 3 18 Player CS servers on a P4 2ghz with 512Mb ram, or 1 NS server. From what I hear the NS Win server is better. I am sure they are looking into it and will have it fixed when they have time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> CS is an extremely simple game compared to NS; comparisons are a waste of time. And, yes, as has been said many times in many threads in many forums, CPU utilization under windows is pretty good, but under Linux it currently is not. Flayra will fix it; everyone just needs to be patient.
Thanks for your opinion Verbose. As for the comparison, you took it the wrong way. I was showing how Linux is able to run HLDS servers with little problem, and that it is the NS server code. We all know that NS has more entities then CS, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--BoNeLeSS+Dec 31 2002, 04:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BoNeLeSS @ Dec 31 2002, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A better performance of ns is desirable, but you ppl are missing the point.
The fact is NS has became quite popular in a minimal time lapse and is still a mod developed for only one person. BF1942 or UT2k3 has been developed for dozens of proffesional guys with lots of expreience and $$$ to burn.
CS or even DoD Beta 2 did not performed much better on its earlier versions and the mechanics of these games are much more simplier....
Just give time to Flayra...
Happy new year!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perfectly said. NS has been out 2 months to the day and considering the resources the NS team has to work with they've done a fabulous job.
<!--QuoteBegin--verbose+Dec 31 2002, 04:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (verbose @ Dec 31 2002, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't diss the Slack, lest you incur the wrath of its followers! Some of us prefer to avoid dependency-hell by doing everything by hand, at least on our workstations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya know, I laugh every time I hear about dependency-hell from a Slacker. In the 4-5 years of running Debian I have never... <b>never</b> had 'dependancy-hell.' In fact, I've had the exact opposite. "Oh, you need this library to run, it isn't installed, we'll install it."
I ran on Slack for a good 2 years. I know full and well about compiling by hand. I also knew good and well on having to track down libraries so I could compile and install them... by hand. If there was ever dependancy hell it was in Slackware. Nothing like wanting to compile a program, find a library missing which depends on another library that is missing which in turn depends on another that is missing and then trying to figure out where all of those are out there in the ether. Sorry, I'll take apt-get and be done in under 2 minutes than spend 2 hours tracking down source and attempting compiles.
If I ever need to compile something my way, apt-get source works just fine. If there is something not in the repository I can compile it just fine by hand. Dependancy hell, shyeah, right. I stand by what I say, what are the developers running, a 2 year old slack system? I can't imagine any other reason why they'd have an old compiler and old libraries on it.
<!--QuoteBegin--verbose+Dec 31 2002, 04:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (verbose @ Dec 31 2002, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can run 3 18 Player CS servers on a P4 2ghz with 512Mb ram, or 1 NS server. From what I hear the NS Win server is better. I am sure they are looking into it and will have it fixed when they have time<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually one of our customers who rents a dedicated server of the same spec runs a 18 man DoD server and a 12 man NS server.
The server runs RedHat 7.3 Kernel, updated with security updates (RedHat 8.0 is a **obscenity** when it come to mem and cpu usage)
Just out of interest, has anyone tried a Stage 1 install of Gentoo running NS?
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Dec 24 2002, 03:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Dec 24 2002, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If there's one thing I've learned from NS it's that people are never happy. It doesn't matter if you change stuff or don't change stuff, people just complain constantly. Maybe I have to stop reading the forums or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm happy! But reading forums always brings out the misanthrope in any dev I reckon. People like to discuss their loved things' flaws more than what they love. That's reserved for poetry and odes. It's like being on permanent duty in the Emergency Room or rescue worker picking out one wretched body out of a car wreck after another. It tends to give you the impression that the world is a cruel place and mankind cannot figure out to do anything than maim each other. But outside that narrow focus there's flowers and happy smiley folks all around, don't forget.
There are many NS lovers out there. Happy people who don't come in here doing 100+ thread debates on what makes them happy. Alas, also many people with little or no tact <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Why aren't there "How to make your volunteer programmer happy" evening schools?
As it goes ive seen the ns constantly full and and the dod server with between 10 and 15 people on it, and ive not seen any major problems (although not superb, i.e. bit of lag and a bit of choke, but playable.) And as far as im aware they have not removed any maps from the cycle.
I agree that the Linux version certainly needs soom optimisation (we have refused to provide a NS option for our standard servers til we can be sure that a basic install of the mod wont cause problems for other servers on the box), but we have found that certain linux flavours and versions cause increased usage for some process's (hlds for one).
the dod server is: 212.42.10.241:27015 the ns server is: 212.42.10.241:27025
Ive not found any server that doesnt suffer from even a little lag while running hera, that is just the nature of that map, but as i say ive seen worse from other servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--bigjb+Jan 2 2003, 11:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bigjb @ Jan 2 2003, 11:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just out of interest, has anyone tried a Stage 1 install of Gentoo running NS?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to try out a workstation of it first, then i'll setup a server of it maybe...
Comments
i'm not going to sit on an IRC channel and read the entire thing for a glips of the future. I use the forums because its an easy way to read alot of opinions in a small amount of time.
i bet better ways to waste my time then sit on a IRC channel reading endless lines of "lol" and "IMO"
I thought this was suppose to be release 1, not beta 1?
Either way it is a great concept, and the NS team has done some great work. I just hope they are not going thru the 'God these people are ingrates' phase, which is something that all people that offer things to the public go thru. I know it would slow my work down.
All they had todo was reply to one of the many posts complaining about it saying, "Yes we know there is some problems with the linux server. And we are addressing them." And everyone would be content and happy to wait. But ignoring the problem and everyones questions and posts about it, is a sure way to really **obscenity** off that group of ppl. And even to this date, they havent admitted they're is a problem,(all the say is we are working on optimization for BOTH servers) Nor have they said they will address the problem. Or said anythng at all about fixxing linux. Other then to state that they will update thier old compilers and glibc libs. (with a complaint about how much work that will be for them) So as I stated before, I think they could care less about the linux server, or the admins running it on linux. Especially after another week of silence on the topic.
And you can not compare this problem to other games servers. Their versions, be it linux, mac, or winblows are all running at the same level. And if Linux and Windows servers for NS where running at the same level. We wouldent even be disscussing this. The problem is the dev team has and is countinuing to give the impression of supporting windows first, and linux, well maybe if I'm borred one night, I'll look into it. Because its really gonna be alot of work for me to update my system to what it should be running already.
All this could have been avoiding with a little communication on the dev teams part. Whats the point of havening a server-op forum, if you never post in it. And ppl have been polite and constructive since 1.02 created this drastic differances in the 2 os's. How much effort would it have taken to simply make a post acknowledging the problem and letting the severops know you will fix it. Instead you have ppl trying to deffend there lack of post on the problem and ppls growing frustration over being ignored, by useing statements like "we can assume". Well rather then assumeing, I used logic to come to the conclusion, the only reason they wont post is because they don't care about havening linux servers running their mod. At least thats the impression they are giving.
I truly hope I'm wrong. As i really like this mod, and can see it growing into a great community. But lacking support for the servers and admins running the mod for them...... And for these ppl who are offended because they somehow see this a bashing Flays work. What about all the work, effort, and resources, we the server ops are putting into this mod to help it grow? There should be alott better communication between the dev team and the admins running servers. Because without both working togther, You wont have a game.
EDIT:
This is the last time I will post anything concerning this topic. I will wait and see if they prove me wrong(god I hope so). Becasue I would rather not del the NS server from my dedicated box. But I also don't want to beat the snott of of my 2 gig cpu, by havening it running at 75-100% all the time. Just because I choose to use linux. An OS I personally believe is better suited to networking then winblows.
Try running a NS server.....
You get the same thing over and over and over and over again.....
You r0x0r!!!
Mod runs fine. Get some real hardware.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you speak as if money grows on trees. I have an XP2000 which SHOULD be more than enough to run 2 18client CS server or a 30 player DoD server.
you shouldn't be allowed to open your mouth w/o first researching your post.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you running for a connection? The server I run is a P4 1.6GHz 512MB DDRAM. Absolutely no lag. The days of dual 400MHz servers are gone. I don't understand why you are flaming me when I am backing up Flayra. Why don't you RTFM and read Flayra's post on server specs/connection speeds and you'll see where i get this "research" from. There are so many things that the server needs to keep track of. Keep this in mind:
A turret happy commander
Motion Tracking
Scent of Fear
This info has to be sent to the entire team constantly and or all clients, which would put a server to 100% utlization. Look at CS, CS doesn't have any of the above features. Do you currently run any servers other than CS, DoD, NS etc??? Try running BF1942. Its the same thing. It all comes down to what the server needs to keep track of and relay them to all the connected clients. Many developers will agree to this. Either Win32 or Linux your going to have this problem. I have run both types of NS servers, and they both run the same way.
Oh and "you shouldn't be allowed to open your mouth w/o first researching your post."
Think twice
Which on a decent distribution is 1/10th the trouble of upgrading to the latest compiler and libraries as it is under Windows. For example, Debian:
apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
Red Hat:
up2date
There, libraries updated, compiler updated. What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?
there is lag in some cases as you mentioned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you currently run any servers other than CS, DoD, NS etc???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, its NS only. But i have run DoD servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Try running BF1942. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
off topic, its not even HL related, don't bring it back up...plz
The fact of the matter is that linux performance blows...thast what this post is about, not opimization or tuning. My pipe if fine and its tweaked already. You cannot do anything else to my server besides strip it of AM and LogD. Everyone is having major issues here. Telling us to go get real hardware is not the solution.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It all comes down to what the server needs to keep track of and relay them to all the connected clients. Many developers will agree to this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes...may i say duh? i think so. But thats not the point of this post!! Its the fact that a doze server gets 30-50% cpu usage and a linux server gets 60-97% cpu usage. Linux IS a better memory manager, it shouldn't be that high. Flaya is using an old compiler/sdk/glibs on his linux system (so we've been told).
its the gap in performance thats the problem, not that we don't have "real hardware". Because alot of us actually upgraded our hardware just to run this great mod!!
Don't tell me to think twice, read the forums before you post silly statements plz.
Which on a decent distribution is 1/10th the trouble of upgrading to the latest compiler and libraries as it is under Windows. For example, Debian:
apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade
Red Hat:
up2date
There, libraries updated, compiler updated. What are they running a 2 year old Slack machine?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
even then its not that hard!!
wget <i>i dunno the web addy</i>
tar xzf newgcc.tgz
cd newgcc
./configure --quiet
make && make test && make install
repeatx3 for the lib updates (glibs, libc, and i can't remember)
Don't diss the Slack, lest you incur the wrath of its followers! Some of us prefer to avoid dependency-hell by doing everything by hand, at least on our workstations.
You youngins and your apt-get and your RPMs and your up2date. Back in my day, if we wanted a new cc, we wrote one! (with a well-worn copy of the Dragon book propped open)
Nowadays, us server ops just cvsup; make buildworld; make installworld. Wait, you people are actually running Linux, and not running hlds using FreeBSD's Linux binary-compatibility? Oh how I feel for your poor servers... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Don't diss the Slack, lest you incur the wrath of its followers! Some of us prefer to avoid dependency-hell by doing everything by hand, at least on our workstations.
You youngins and your apt-get and your RPMs and your up2date. Back in my day, if we wanted a new cc, we wrote one! (with a well-worn copy of the Dragon book propped open)
Nowadays, us server ops just cvsup; make buildworld; make installworld. Wait, you people are actually running Linux, and not running hlds using FreeBSD's Linux binary-compatibility? Oh how I feel for your poor servers... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL, i hear its worse performance on BSD
The fact is NS has became quite popular in a minimal time lapse and is still a mod developed by only one person. BF1942 or UT2k3 has been developed by dozens of professional guys with lots of experience and $$$ to burn.
CS or even DoD Beta 2 did not performed much better on its earlier versions and the mechanics of these games are much more simplier....
Just give time to Flayra...
Happy new year!
even then its not that hard!!
wget <i>i dunno the web addy</i>
tar xzf newgcc.tgz
cd newgcc
./configure --quiet
make && make test && make install<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pssh. Slack does have package management system, for when we users get really lazy:
wget <a href='http://www3.linuxpackages.net/packages/Slackware-8.1/somethingOrOther/foobar.tgz' target='_blank'>http://www3.linuxpackages.net/packages/Sla...ther/foobar.tgz</a>
upgradepkg gcc
You heard wrong. Many linux apps even run faster under FreeBSD. This is not emulation, this is an alternate system call vector. And even if performance was a bit worse, I'd still run it under FreeBSD (can't speak for NetBSD, OpenBSD, etc. They're not the same game, guys) due to the maturity of the networking tools, system management, stability, ports tree, etc. etc. To each his own, though.
Ran a CS server for a long time just fine. I still have the high CPU utilization problem that other Linux users currently have with NS, but other than that, things are dandy. I haven't done a side-by-side, Linux vs. FreeBSD HLDS showdown, but my gut analysis is that there's no substantial difference. If I find myself bored some weekend, maybe I'll run some tests and burn some numbers.
CS is an extremely simple game compared to NS; comparisons are a waste of time. And, yes, as has been said many times in many threads in many forums, CPU utilization under windows is pretty good, but under Linux it currently is not. Flayra will fix it; everyone just needs to be patient.
The fact is NS has became quite popular in a minimal time lapse and is still a mod developed for only one person. BF1942 or UT2k3 has been developed for dozens of proffesional guys with lots of expreience and $$$ to burn.
CS or even DoD Beta 2 did not performed much better on its earlier versions and the mechanics of these games are much more simplier....
Just give time to Flayra...
Happy new year!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perfectly said. NS has been out 2 months to the day and considering the resources the NS team has to work with they've done a fabulous job.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya know, I laugh every time I hear about dependency-hell from a Slacker. In the 4-5 years of running Debian I have never... <b>never</b> had 'dependancy-hell.' In fact, I've had the exact opposite. "Oh, you need this library to run, it isn't installed, we'll install it."
I ran on Slack for a good 2 years. I know full and well about compiling by hand. I also knew good and well on having to track down libraries so I could compile and install them... by hand. If there was ever dependancy hell it was in Slackware. Nothing like wanting to compile a program, find a library missing which depends on another library that is missing which in turn depends on another that is missing and then trying to figure out where all of those are out there in the ether. Sorry, I'll take apt-get and be done in under 2 minutes than spend 2 hours tracking down source and attempting compiles.
If I ever need to compile something my way, apt-get source works just fine. If there is something not in the repository I can compile it just fine by hand. Dependancy hell, shyeah, right. I stand by what I say, what are the developers running, a 2 year old slack system? I can't imagine any other reason why they'd have an old compiler and old libraries on it.
Actually one of our customers who rents a dedicated server of the same spec runs a 18 man DoD server and a 12 man NS server.
The server runs RedHat 7.3 Kernel, updated with security updates (RedHat 8.0 is a **obscenity** when it come to mem and cpu usage)
Just out of interest, has anyone tried a Stage 1 install of Gentoo running NS?
If there's one thing I've learned from NS it's that people are never happy. It doesn't matter if you change stuff or don't change stuff, people just complain constantly. Maybe I have to stop reading the forums or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm happy! But reading forums always brings out the misanthrope in any dev I reckon. People like to discuss their loved things' flaws more than what they love. That's reserved for poetry and odes. It's like being on permanent duty in the Emergency Room or rescue worker picking out one wretched body out of a car wreck after another. It tends to give you the impression that the world is a cruel place and mankind cannot figure out to do anything than maim each other. But outside that narrow focus there's flowers and happy smiley folks all around, don't forget.
There are many NS lovers out there. Happy people who don't come in here doing 100+ thread debates on what makes them happy. Alas, also many people with little or no tact <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Why aren't there "How to make your volunteer programmer happy" evening schools?
And as far as im aware they have not removed any maps from the cycle.
I agree that the Linux version certainly needs soom optimisation (we have refused to provide a NS option for our standard servers til we can be sure that a basic install of the mod wont cause problems for other servers on the box), but we have found that certain linux flavours and versions cause increased usage for some process's (hlds for one).
What os and version do you use on that box?
Give me the IP, because I would love to see that server full, with 10 -15 people playing DoD while the NS server is running Hera.
the ns server is: 212.42.10.241:27025
Ive not found any server that doesnt suffer from even a little lag while running hera, that is just the nature of that map, but as i say ive seen worse from other servers.
I'm going to try out a workstation of it first, then i'll setup a server of it maybe...