1.04 Seige Cannon Target

Madjai · December 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">marine advantage</div> if you havent looked at the front page for a preview of 1.04, check it out!

heres an interesting one - "siege cannon targets now must be sighted to be hit (in view of friendly player or scanned by commander)"

now at first i thought, "yay no more lame sieges in vents", but then i realized this can actually be a marine advantage. right now a siege cannon shoots other buildings before it goes after the hive, but all a commander has to do is scan only the section where the hive is and avoid going after all those defence and offence towers first. PLUS a commander can have his troops build many siege cannons that dont shoot right away, alarming the aliens. so he could have 5 cannons go off at once instead of 1 at a time and alerting the aliens and getting swarmed.

Ardesco · December 2002

Yep. It's all in the nature of balance. By making the sensory sweep 2 more rps (to 3), things should see a pretty good balance. I am a comm who tends to use sensor sweep a little too much (for almost anything, in fact), so hopefully this'll reduce my tendancy to spam this =P. I've scanned many a hive, and I have to say it's pretty damn hard to be selective enough to scan JUST the alien hive, especially when it's a small hive location. Yes, this does bring the benefit of having a seige gun fire when the commander wants it to, but it would be rather expensive to maintain a visual lock via sensor sweep. Hopefully this'll encourage more than 1-2 seige guns being built, or, more importantly, marines actually spotting for the gun itself (a suggestion I recommended a LONG time ago). The only thing I hate about this is that motion tracking is now rather forced, as before when I simply spent 1 rp, I kept saying to myself: "I'm not gonna spam this thing 44 more times". I always seem to research motion tracking anyhoo...go figure.

Just my thoughts.

Doombringer · December 2002

My question is.. does the cannon keep attacking something even if it goes out of sight? A sensor sweep only lasts a few seconds, and marines cannot keep a bead on all turrets or hives without facing death.

Legionnaired · December 2002

Judging by the way turrets work, I think that it's going to need a constant spotter.

No reason a jet-bo can't do the job though <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

OWA · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>it gives up its "I KILL ALL" aspect for a milder "I DESTROY SPECIFIC TARGETS WITH EXTREME FORCE" ratio
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Well said!

DocZ · December 2002

"Defense chambers no longer heal themselves"

Question: A defense chamber can't heal itself, but can two defense chambers heal each other? I'm guessing that yes, two defense chambers can heal each other but the way plural was used in that sentence leaves a little doubt.

Thanks for answering.

Bigwig · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OWA @ Dec 23 2002, 05:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>it gives up its "I KILL ALL" aspect for a milder "I DESTROY SPECIFIC TARGETS WITH EXTREME FORCE" ratio
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Well said!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I agree, well said. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Madjai · December 2002

im sure i means a defence chamber cannot heal itself, but i never build just 1 defence tower, so its not too big a deal.

Legionnaired · December 2002

For those of you interested in just how much is being cut out of the seige's range, I made a test map for it at
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=17375' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=20&t=17375</a>

It's really not that much.

sekdar · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doombringer @ Dec 23 2002, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>My question is.. does the cannon keep attacking something even if it goes out of sight? A sensor sweep only lasts a few seconds, and marines cannot keep a bead on all turrets or hives without facing death.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
probably not. i think they want siege turrets to be... support for taking down heavily fortified areas, not the be-all and end-all to destroying defenses, hives, and other infrastructure. Requiring them to act in concert with someone else furthers this "support" idea.

remember in starcraft how siege tanks could shoot farther than they could see and needed someone to spot for them? once again, a support unit <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Madjai · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sekdar @ Dec 23 2002, 05:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>remember in starcraft how siege tanks could shoot farther than they could see and needed someone to spot for them? once again, a support unit <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
did you mean a siege tank COULDNT shoot farther than they could see?

so its sorta like like "fog of war" stuff.

Greedo · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Dec 22 2002, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It's really not that much.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
but it's enough.

littlewild · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Madjai @ Dec 23 2002, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sekdar @ Dec 23 2002, 05:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>remember in starcraft how siege tanks could shoot farther than they could see and needed someone to spot for them? once again, a support unit <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
did you mean a siege tank COULDNT shoot farther than they could see?

so its sorta like like "fog of war" stuff.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
A siege tank has a longer firing range than its sight range.

Katsuro · December 2002

Hmm i have some questions. (and not "Youre a <span style='color:red'><b>***NUKED*** ***NUKED*** and ***NUKED***</span></b>")

When theres a siege cannon and a marine sights it, does it fire only at what the marine is looking at? Or does it start firing and damage anything in range?

Also, if it only hits what youre looking at, what if someone else looks at something else. Will it fire and hit both? Finish one then hit the other, change targets and hit the secon one?

Elric · December 2002

I bet it'll keep hitting the first one until it loses line of sight then the siege will do it's normal rotate looking for new targets deal and go after the new spotted area. I'm interested to see how this will work, will defintily help put the marines back into the game more because I have to admit, I was letting buildings do most of the work right now.

OWA · December 2002

One thing I like about this is it really helps aliens recover from a 2 hive blockade, as unless the commander is actively scanning many areas at once it may be possible to raise hives in areas which are generally covered by siege (such as compure core and ventilation on Hera, and pretty much all the hives on... uh.. that one with Sewer and Ventilation... god I need to learn the map names)

Unknown_Soldier · December 2002

I think marines need a weapon or something to tag specific alien buildings so that sieges in range will shoot those without a marine needing to be around.

Hozart1 · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think marines need a weapon or something to tag specific alien buildings so that sieges in range will shoot those without a marine needing to be around. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I think that would blow the whole point of this change, get the marines in there to do some fighting, or have to commander do some scanning. Not just "I'm gonna sit back and watch the fireworks" attitude siege cannons develope.

Crazy_Dog · December 2002

hehe I like to see the buildings the siege is attacking anyway so this will be no change for me, makes it more fun in that I will kind of be like the marines in the field lasing for air strikes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> would even be really cool to have a laser that you could use to spot things with but.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> that may be going to far.

I wonder though will things like turrets be able to "spot" for the siege as well? That would be an easy way to keep aliens from building DC OC/s to clear turret farms still. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Just my 2 cents

moultano · December 2002

one thing Im wondering about this.
will this remove the ability of seige turrets to take out structures that are blocking an elevator or door?
does line of sight take movable objects into account?

Fina · December 2002

Bravo on these changes. I can't wait for the release!

Clan_Hunter · December 2002

would an OBS work as a spotter?

Doombringer · December 2002

Ech. I didn't think about the elevator thing. This forces a comm to use sensor sweep.

If the sieges are nerfed like this, they should stop alien structure stacking. I remember "just siege it" was a solution often touted by 'higher ups' on this board for dealing with blocked elevators. This nerf makes that all the more difficult :/

Hang_Loose · December 2002

Damn, and I liked chilling back by the ASC and admiring the work it was doing, all while downing some uberleet vanilla coke.

Oh well. I hope it keeps hitting after it locks, otherwise it's going to be a **obscenity** to use.

Rokiyo · December 2002

no way, it should need constant sighting, just like using a laser for targetting missles etc.

All u need is one jp marine sitting on top of the hive, or in a vent nearby, or in a random corner...

Or a marine around a corner sticking his head out every now and again (I think a marine sighting lasts as long on the comm's screen as a scanner sweep sighting, perhaps slightly shorter).

It'll basically mean that instead of the seige doing all the work, it'll turn the seige cannon into an automatic grenade launcher, because even a real grennie would also need back up to take down the hive room.

It also means a comm can build two or three completely different seige locations in secret, and activate them all at once.

xect · December 2002

Will the siege stop firing when the scanner sweep stops?

DArtagnan · December 2002

I believe this change, in concert with the "Hives spawn with full health" change will bring about great things for the gorge population. Several times, as a gorge, i've had the "80 res down the drain" situation when I'm unaware that a hive location has been surrounded by hidden seige turrets.

In 1.04, I imagine that as long as the gorge can't see a marine or a scanner sweep from the hive location, he'll be able to spend his 80 resources with full confidence, and if somehow he missed that turret up on the catwalk and the JP marine behind it, or whatever, the hive will last long enough for his skulk buddies to regroup and save it.

Well done with the patch!

Jaml · December 2002

I hope the siege cannons fire only as long as a sensor sweep or a marine is active/sighting. Please confirm its like that or is it like that that once the siege aquires its target it fires till its destruction? That would be über lame. <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

PS.: <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'> > <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> now! Muahahaha finaly those lame <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> get nerfed and <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> need to rush the <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> hive. <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

pardzh · December 2002

I definitely like all those changes.

This should make life as a Marine more interesting, and life as an Alien fighting Marines with siege cannon's more survivable. I think it'd be fun to be the spotter guy in the vent with the jetpack, just sittin in the shadows and spottin the hive.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Align · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D'Artagnan @ Dec 23 2002, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I believe this change, in concert with the "Hives spawn with full health" change will bring about great things for the gorge population. Several times, as a gorge, i've had the "80 res down the drain" situation when I'm unaware that a hive location has been surrounded by hidden seige turrets.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Actually I dont think the hives will have full hp while IN BUILDING, only once finished... and it would still be likely to get bombed very fast if it did get spotted... or something, I lost the thought(I forgot).

MMZ_Torak · December 2002

Who'da thunk it? A nerf actually making the siege slighlty more powerful and less poewrful at the same time! I think the Hive spawing thing only effects the Hive you start with. Originally, the first hive started at half hit points. Sight for sieges will not work on specific buildings but specific areas (the area in view of the marine). so, if a gorge builds lots of DEF Chambers close to the hive I'm sure that the siege will not just attack the Hive even if it is the only thing the spotting marine can "see" (eg: crouched behind a low wall or in a vent won't mean that since the marine can only see the hive the siege will only attack it.)

1.04 Seige Cannon Target

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