<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(fixes bug where acid rocket wasn't doing damage properly to organic structures)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why would a fade be attacking an "organic structure?" Or are marines in included in that term? Perhaps this bug fix needs slight rewording? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Dunno 'bout Europe (as we're not really part of ya so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
But in the UK, most Broadband is flat fee. (I work for a Telecomms company, so I get mine for CHEEEEP!) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but in Scandinavia (I live in Sweden) It's quite easy to get ADSL, so most gamers have ADSL (0.75mbit - 2.5mbit) or broadband (10-100mbit). ADSL in sweden costs between 200-350SEK a month, which is aprox. 20-35 dollars. Broadband cost just as much, but is not as readily avalible as ADSL (almost anyone in sweden can get ADSL, while broadband is restricted to the bigger cities).
I think that Scandinavian players in general play more then American players. Just look at the amount of Finnish and Swedish servers that are avalible. It might not be as many as USA, but then we got a totalt of like 18 million people in both Sweden and Finland, while you got over 280 million people in the USA.
Sociological question: How is broadband billed in Europe? If I recall correctly, it is still mostly usage-based, not flat fee. That means that people who actually play games alot, probably have to shell out considerable money. In the US, it is flat-fee. This phenomenon might result in a lot more *serious* players in Europe, compared to the US. I'm in the US, and I know that I would not hand out HMGs randomly to marines because there is a good chance many of them will be idiots and just die immediately resulting in a huge waste of resources. Maybe the average European player is better/more serious, which makes the HMG rush possible?
Plus, remember clan/tournament tactics are different from pub tactics, where you have a much lower quality player <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a broadband cost of 30$ a month, then I can stay online and download as much as I like. No limits. Sure this helps the players alot I have to agree, but ignorance is really not an excuse. Most people doesnt seem to take the HMG rush seriously. Both me and Tomten have tried to explain how dangerous this tactic is for overall gamebalance, the changes in the new 1.04 wont really make a difference it either, more encourage it due to the new A. Armory addon. You can now get ammo as it's upgrading. The people that play NS alot will most likely be in a clan, they want to have a balanced game so that tournaments and PCWs will be fun to play. If some lamess clan always goes for a HMG rush and constantly is on the top of the ladder this will spoil the fun. And if a game is nolonger fun it will loose players. Simple conclusion.
The HMG is a simple thing to fix, just make HMG require Armslab in order to be built, or make a seperate HMG upgrade in the Advanced Armory. Unless going for HMG rush it's still smarter for the team to get Armslab and Upgrades before going for the HMG.
Like everyone the devs and everyone else say - HMG is supposed to be a midgame weapon, a counter for Fades if you will.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Dec 23 2002, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Dec 23 2002, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's because America has Rednecks. And Yokels. And people from Canada. (Yeah yeah, just admit it, you're Americans that speak french!)
*This was a joke. Chill.*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey I'm not offended. I'm an american, and there's no way I'm giving my next door neighbor a HMG. I mean, if you saw their house, you would understand.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Evildwarf+Dec 23 2002, 11:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evildwarf @ Dec 23 2002, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The HMG is a simple thing to fix, just make HMG require Armslab in order to be built, or make a seperate HMG upgrade in the Advanced Armory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I always found it strange that you could just plunk down 35 and basically have all endgame weps. By the time I hand out HMGs I have had an arms lab for a looong time, so it would seem like a good idea to make it dependent on arms lab. Anyway, it is a good idea to get arms lab as soon as possible, otherwise your marines are just lunchmeat.
Personally it looks to me like this patch will in general reduce marine rushing, which I think is a good thing, forcing marines to plod through and push aliens back. I just hope it is balanced enough so that taking away the rush aspect of marines doesn't make them too weak. I can't wait to check it out.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin--rebo+Dec 23 2002, 05:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rebo @ Dec 23 2002, 05:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the trickling resource idea is FABULOUS, please take notice devs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What about not giving resources until the player actually LEAVES the server (or becomes observer, in which case he can never join teams until next round *anyway*).
So then, alien lamers would have to basically sit in RR for the remainder of the game. And if enough tried this, the auto-endgame would kick in when the teams became over-unbalanced.
That seems easier than all this "trickle" trickery.
Although I do wish sometimes that there were a legitimate way that I could give back resources when I'm not using them... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Wow, Lots to read. I like 99% of the changes, especially the siege changes. One thing that is <i> Distinctly</i> missing from this list is the Un-upgradeable Buildings and sinking buildings. The resource thing with the aliens is going to be a problem though. People drop due to no fault of their own, it really sucks that aliens wil be penalised for this. The res trickle idea is the best answer IMHO. I never used the res exploit an actively discourged it's use so I won't miss it. Aliens being penalised because a member of the team's connection crapped out is wrong. No team should be penalized because of something not pertaining to the game it's self.
As far as the HMG rush goes, I don't believe that it is as unstoppable as everyone thinks. It simply requires more cunning on the alien side. Ambush the HMG'er, drop on his head from over a door or wait until they pass you and run up behind them. You know what else will help kill HMG marines faster? Movement Chamber first. Celerity will make it harder for marines to track you.
I played on a server once that let you give your extra resources to the hive (anyone could take out) or to someone else. I thought it was good idea, too bad I forgot which server it was <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, here's my complete first impression on the upcomming patch's feature list:
- Fixed exploit that allowed aliens to look like marines and fire marine weaponry
Great, this really **obscenity** my off !!
- Changed max machine gun ammo to 250 (used to be 300, though it would only display 250)
i don't think that this will make a lot of difference. I'm fine with it.
- Fixed commander weapon exploit (using lastinv). Weapon commands in general (drop, switch, last) won't work for commanders.
One bug less...
- 3rd party entities are never propagated to client (ie, adminmod_ entities). This could fix an occasional crash (thanks Alfred)
Nice one.
- Moved auto-concession on unfair teams into server variable (mp_autoconcede: if set to greater then 0, then if teams are ever different by this many players, that smaller team loses immediately)
Nice, although i think most admins won't change the standard value anyway. I still prefer to fight to death and die with honor...
- Dead players can now talk to their teammates in both casual and tourny mode (needed to prevent team from getting an advantage by using external voice program in CAL)
Hmm... the teams get's advantage from dead players talking, because the dead players can SEE. I was playing on a server last night, where your screen turned black after one died. This way dead players can not do things like: "Watch out, a skulk behind you !" or "Ok, go to that edge... hmm... everything's fine, move on" I strongly recommend to add such a option... at least make it a server-variable (i would use it mainly in tourney mode)
- Fixed problem where ammo could be picked up while holding mines
Fixing is good. Nuff said.
- Aliens without any hives no longer take damage when the server is in tournament mode
Thanks a lot. But since I have no clan i have to play on publics.. so i still have to live with that. I recommend to make this a server-variable.
- Add more triggers (for Psychostats and 3rd party program support)
Don't know them to be honest... if it works, I'm fine with it... just hope it does not create new expolits.
- Added "player built x" (for commander and aliens) - Added "recycled x" - Added "started research x" - Added "cancelled research x"
Nice one, this helps the Marines and Aliens to understand the tactic of their commander or fellow gorges. Also, if people know the commander is researching HA, they hopefully will stop whinning "give us HA !". What i miss here is a "commander is upgrading x" (for armory and turret factory)
- Update to use StormTrooper's recent notes
Dunno.
- Fixed visual problem where advanced armory had weird build circle
Hmm.. did happen to me only once or twice, but in fact it's good to have it fixed.
- Reduced radius of acid rocket splash from 200 to 165
That's a start, but I still think the Fade is too powerfull.
- Reduced shotgun cost from 20 to 17
Well, I like the shutgun, but most commanders think it's a waste of resources... so without tweaking the damage a bit or the RoF (i suggest to raise the RoF a bit and leave the damage as it is) the shotty won't see play much more than it does now.
- Reduced welder damage from 10 to 7
Hmm, I'm fine with it. I think it still tears down alien building down faster than the knive... and that's ok, because you don't have to spend resources on knives.
- Armory can now give out ammo while upgrading to advanced armory (more intuitive)
I think that's ok. How may time have you been taken out by an alien because you were out of ammo ? Only once or twice in an endless number of battles! You die because you have to reload.. that's how things are... so being able to stock up your ammo while armory is upgrading is ok to me.
- Increased cost of infantry portal from 15 to 22
I don't like that one. 20 would have been ok, but 25 is too much. While alien players complain about the HMG rush, in fact almost every game starts with the aliens rushing the marine base. It's important that the marines have enough resources to defend themselfes in the first phase of the game. I tought the cost was ok as it was.
- Increased cost of phase gate from 20 to 25
This one is good, BUT...
- Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000
If you make phase gates more expensive, i think it would be just fair not to make them any weaker. I've seen a few skuls take out a phase gate in no time (including the marines that were unlucky enough to spawn right into an skulk's open mouth), this change would make it an even more easy target. Phase gates are one of the most important buildings in the marine game and it's good that their cost is raised, but making them such an easy target is not good. Aliens can move through the maps faster than the Marines anyway, so please don't slow down the marines his way.
- Increased scan cost from 1 to 3
I'm fine with that one...
- Reduced siege cannon range from 1250 to 1100 NOTES: - The green circle that appears when the siege cannon is selected by the commander is using the old range, but this will be fixed in v1.1. - This is the value siege range was for most of our internal playtesting (hence the bast and hera issues that suddenly arrived with v1.0)
It's ok, although i consider the issues with bast and hera where maily a mapping problem than a problem of the siege cannon.
- Siege cannon targets now must be sighted to be hit (in view of friendly player or scanned by commander)
Hmmmmm... I like it... I hate it... I like it... I hate it.... This one is really a hard change in the Marine gameplay. I like the idea, that a target must be spottet before a siege can lock on it. On the other hand, if you can see a target, it can see you TOO. So if a marine aproaches a "wall of lame", he's in serious trouble.. if he wants the siege to target the wall he's got to move into their line of fire most of the time.
- Hives now spawn with full health instead of having to heal up to full health on spawn
Hmm... although i'm an alien player most of the time I don't like this one much. Aliens are faster than marines anyway and other changes in this patch made Marines weaker and slower. if the marines have to take care of their phase gates, why should aliens not have to take care of a building hive ? I think it's fine to speed up the hve building time, ut i can't really cope with an "instant hive" (just put some hot water ofer it and *plopp* there you go).
- Fix bug where advanced turret factories don't have full health
Again, fixing is good...
- Acid rocket showing damage icon when not taking damage? Range working right?
Dunno...
- The advanced armory now has 2400 health instead of 1500 (same as regular armory, this is a fixed bug, not a balance change)
Finally. GJ
- Fixed bug where tournament mode caused some damage to be reduced more then it should be (acid rocket vs. any alien structures) - Fixed bug where hive would sometimes play wound sound/animation when it got hit but didn't take damage - Removed lingering "organic" damage type for acid rocket and spore cloud (fixes bug where acid rocket wasn't doing damage properly to organic structures)
And the golden wrench goes to... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Aliens no longer donate their points back to their team resource pool when they leave the team (exploitable)
I encoutered this exploit many time and hate it. A lot of time when i play alien, we got a gorge on out team that tells us to leave to press f4 so he could build a hive. It's good to see this one stopped. I think the "virtual resource tower" is worth thinking about.. i really like that idea!!
- Fixed non-visible motion sensor and proximity "blips" (linux only) - Defense chambers no longer heal themselves
I like this one
Overall: I think most of the patch i ok, but i have to say that the marines suffer from the changes. I think aliens were more powerfull that the marines in prewious versions and some of the changes even broaden the gap <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Decreasing the fade's splash range is a start, but those aliens still are overpowered.
It takes only 5 hits from an HMG to take down a Skulk. Add level 3 carapace (which the aliens RARELY get when up against the HMG rush) and it's only a couple more. This is INCREDIBLY easy to do given the way the HMG works. It has such a large cone of fire and high firing rate that you can kill 6 skulks on their way in to attack you just by pointing in their *general direction*. I like pretty much all the changes in 1.04 (except the siege LOS thing... I'll have to see that in action to make a call). But none of it addresses the most powerful rush tactic I've seen in the game... the HMG rush. Using this tactic with a 5 man Marine team versus 6 aliens, I would guess the marines win 80% of the time. At least, they always used to before 1.04. I can HOPE that the increased cost on the IPs slows them down enough to give the aliens at least a fighting chance... but we'll see. Overall I'm excited to see the changes. I especially like the removal of the aliens resource sharing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As far as the HMG rush goes, I don't believe that it is as unstoppable as everyone thinks. It simply requires more cunning on the alien side. Ambush the HMG'er, drop on his head from over a door or wait until they pass you and run up behind them. You know what else will help kill HMG marines faster? Movement Chamber first. Celerity will make it harder for marines to track you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you build a movement chamber you are dead. Then a marine team would just kill your entire team with LMG's, no mather how sneaky or good you might think you are. Defensechambers is a REQUIREMENT to have a fighting chance versus a marine team. I don't care how "sneaky" you are, a HMG guy will still own you, your teammates and your hive. If you play on public, HMG's might not be that strong, but in a clanwar, it's VERY difficult to counter. It's to strong, and that's a fact.
Make armslab a requirement for advanced armory, and i'm happy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I played on a server once that let you give your extra resources to the hive (anyone could take out) or to someone else. I thought it was good idea, too bad I forgot which server it was <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That was my server.
- Added "player built x" (for commander and aliens) - Added "recycled x" - Added "started research x" - Added "cancelled research x"
That is a really really GOOD thing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Aliens without any hives no longer take damage when the server is in tournament mode
Please make this a fully controlled cvar(mp_autodeath or something) with marines as well, if they dont have a comm chair start poking off marines.
One suggestion I have that is coding wise, Make the impulse commands for changing class as alien and building structures server-side, this would allow banning of players from going gorg and several other things that could be done server-side. (with adminmod or metamod plugins)
<!--QuoteBegin--Hypergrip+Dec 23 2002, 04:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hypergrip @ Dec 23 2002, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Dead players can now talk to their teammates in both casual and tourny mode (needed to prevent team from getting an advantage by using external voice program in CAL)
Hmm... the teams get's advantage from dead players talking, because the dead players can SEE. I was playing on a server last night, where your screen turned black after one died. This way dead players can not do things like: "Watch out, a skulk behind you !" or "Ok, go to that edge... hmm... everything's fine, move on" I strongly recommend to add such a option... at least make it a server-variable (i would use it mainly in tourney mode)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The point with this is that if dead teammates talking were disabled, then clans would just go out and get Roger Wilco or Battlecomm and work around it. The problem here is that none of it is on RECORD, and that can lead to problems. If it's all left in-game, then demo files will record what's said, and all is good. It has to do with having a level playing field.
<!--QuoteBegin--Aaron+Dec 23 2002, 07:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aaron @ Dec 23 2002, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--rebo+Dec 23 2002, 05:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rebo @ Dec 23 2002, 05:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the trickling resource idea is FABULOUS, please take notice devs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What about not giving resources until the player actually LEAVES the server (or becomes observer, in which case he can never join teams until next round *anyway*).
So then, alien lamers would have to basically sit in RR for the remainder of the game. And if enough tried this, the auto-endgame would kick in when the teams became over-unbalanced.
That seems easier than all this "trickle" trickery.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The reason I suggested the trickle idea (which had nothing to do with res-tower rates, I'm not sure where that came in, but It wasn't part of my <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=13872' target='_blank'>earlier thread</a>.
In the trickle thread (although I didn't mention it well) I thought that the server would keep the resources associated with the player. So if a player leaves the server and rejoins fast enough and goes back to alien, then they will still have most of the resources they left with (or rather, the untrickled amount would be returned to them based on their WonID).
If there wasn't some WonID tracking, Aliens could also just change it from the F4-exploit to the retry-exploit, and players with bad connection drops wouldn't be able to reclaim their res.
As for this res-tower-trickle again, a fixed rate would make no sense, because if there was a lot of alien join/parts, then you could get a big backlog of resources that the aliens have to wait... and wait.. and wait for. Having it guaranteed back within a certain time makes more sense, IMO.
Bottom line: Yes, it's more complex, but I think it has the best of both worlds. The aliens don't lose chunks of res mysteriously, and can't use super-donation tactics effectively either, because it takes time, it's gradual, and the alien has to actually STOP playing the game for a comparatively long time to give their resources back.
As if multi-tasking as a commander wasnt hard enough now I will be spending my time, with scan sweeps! I think we need to keep in mind that the commander is the only eyes for his whole team, nobody knows whats going on unless the commander tells them and my eyes and ears need to be everywhere at the same time, not like the aliens who do what they please. It was nice to have the seige do some work for me without hovering over it, but now not only do i have to drop ammo for HMG with less capacity, heal my dying troops who need to look face to face with a OC or DC so the seige can target it but now i have to use scan sweeps which have now gone from 1 res to 3 just so the seige will fire!! and lets not forget now my phase gates are more expensive and weaker. As if the marines didnt already suffer from enough disadvantages. Well we will see how this goes. The range thing was ok, shot gun cost ok, IP increase bad, Phase price ?? ok i guess if the damage didnt decrease.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hypergrip+Dec 23 2002, 04:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hypergrip @ Dec 23 2002, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, here's my complete first impression on the upcomming patch's feature list: ... <i><b>some stuff i didnt read...</i></b> ... . . .
Overall: I think most of the patch i ok, but i have to say that the marines suffer from the changes. I think aliens were more powerfull that the marines in prewious versions and some of the changes even broaden the gap <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Decreasing the fade's splash range is a start, but those aliens still are overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Longest post ever?
First of all, im tired, sleepy, and want to go to bed.. BUT does this "- Defense chambers no longer heal themselves" mean that Defense chambers dont heal other Defense chambers or that a Defense chamber cant heal itself?
and again, im sleeeeeeeeeepy, so if this is a stupid post, kick me into bed...
I actually got the opportunity to run through the list of features yesterday, both just testing stuff and in an actual game. The siege LOS isn't as bad as you'd think...it means better battles (IE marines usually fighting near the hive so it's in range) and gives an advantage to smart marines (get a peek at just the hive and it's going down, while ignoring all the defenses). For defense chambers, no, they won't heal themselves; you need at least two to keep them going.
The only bug I've found is that sieges won't target structures that were placed before they were built and were in LOS the whole time. We had a gorge build a defense chamber in the middle of our base, then the comm plopped down some sieges, and the sieges wouldn't lock on. However, acquiring a new target (something built outside LOS then with a marine spotting it) made the siege lock on to it then take out the DC in our base in turn. Just a minor bug, but one that might be exploited by smart, crazy gorges.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hellbilly™+Dec 23 2002, 07:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hellbilly™ @ Dec 23 2002, 07:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--WARPAQ+Dec 23 2002, 12:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WARPAQ @ Dec 23 2002, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find everything to be good improvements..
But alien Def towers can't be healed? Thats will mess up the alien order.. If they are going to mess it up like this it should be made fair. I think this shouldn't be done and if it is then some marine buildings maybe the CC or Armoury shouldn't be able to be repaired.
Thats bs! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What i think the changes mean, is that the towers can´t heal on their own anymore. IE, a single D tower was able to heal itself without the aid of another D tower. So what this means, is that 2 D towers are a requirement for them to survive.
I think i understood this correctly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope you are right! You big belly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just played a round of that 1.04 stuff... my god. that was a horrible round. Some of the changes i agree with. but when viewed from the other team i disagree with it. The siege thing is great for aliens, bad for marines. We had sieges and a little base with phase and all got destroyed due to lack of funds from new phase costs and a few other changes.
Horrible, horrible update. I have agreed with the Dev team all the time since now... god this was awful.
<!--QuoteBegin--Evil Timmy+Dec 23 2002, 11:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Dec 23 2002, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just a minor bug, but one that might be exploited by smart, crazy gorges.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And you know they will... It'll probably get fixed, but I'm just trying to imagine what sorts of structures some wacko gorge would build in plain sight of the marines, quite funny... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Who wants to count how many people came in here and said something resembling: "I just played a round of 1.04 and it..."? And then perhaps hit them for not realizing that a single round will not learn you jack about what has changed.
I just played a few rounds on a 1.04 server and it owned ... awsome games IMO
Marines won 2 games, aliens won 2 ... they had a good comm... we had a good gorg (me) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
now thats balance <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DC is a REQUIREMENT to have a fighting chance versus a marine team<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey I'm not offended. I'm an american, and there's no way I'm giving my next door neighbor a HMG. I mean, if you saw their house, you would understand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well a few pages back people were talking about the differences between Euro and american players.
To try out the 1.04 update I went to play on an american server. Bloody hell.... Look, im not saying that all servers over there are the same, but it was a farce.
The thing i noticed the most was the amount of time people spent argueing, calling each other fags.... Maybe the age of the players is younger. 1 game we had a com who was 13, u should have heard his voice in the mic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think there is more cooperation on the UK servers, people are more willing to take orders.
But, all the games I played on that 1.04 server, the marines didnt even come close to getting a foothold in a game. But we did have some lame commanders.
Comments
So why would a fade be attacking an "organic structure?" Or are marines in included in that term? Perhaps this bug fix needs slight rewording? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
But in the UK, most Broadband is flat fee. (I work for a Telecomms company, so I get mine for CHEEEEP!) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but in Scandinavia (I live in Sweden) It's quite easy to get ADSL, so most gamers have ADSL (0.75mbit - 2.5mbit) or broadband (10-100mbit). ADSL in sweden costs between 200-350SEK a month, which is aprox. 20-35 dollars. Broadband cost just as much, but is not as readily avalible as ADSL (almost anyone in sweden can get ADSL, while broadband is restricted to the bigger cities).
I think that Scandinavian players in general play more then American players. Just look at the amount of Finnish and Swedish servers that are avalible. It might not be as many as USA, but then we got a totalt of like 18 million people in both Sweden and Finland, while you got over 280 million people in the USA.
*This was a joke. Chill.*
Sociological question: How is broadband billed in Europe? If I recall correctly, it is still mostly usage-based, not flat fee. That means that people who actually play games alot, probably have to shell out considerable money. In the US, it is flat-fee. This phenomenon might result in a lot more *serious* players in Europe, compared to the US. I'm in the US, and I know that I would not hand out HMGs randomly to marines because there is a good chance many of them will be idiots and just die immediately resulting in a huge waste of resources. Maybe the average European player is better/more serious, which makes the HMG rush possible?
Plus, remember clan/tournament tactics are different from pub tactics, where you have a much lower quality player <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a broadband cost of 30$ a month, then I can stay online and download as much as I like. No limits.
Sure this helps the players alot I have to agree, but ignorance is really not an excuse. Most people doesnt
seem to take the HMG rush seriously. Both me and Tomten have tried to explain how dangerous this tactic is for overall gamebalance, the changes in the new 1.04 wont really make a difference it either, more encourage it due to the new A. Armory addon. You can now get ammo as it's upgrading.
The people that play NS alot will most likely be in a clan, they want to have a balanced game so that tournaments and PCWs will be fun to play. If some lamess clan always goes for a HMG rush and constantly is on the top of the ladder this will spoil the fun. And if a game is nolonger fun it will loose players. Simple conclusion.
The HMG is a simple thing to fix, just make HMG require Armslab in order to be built, or make a seperate HMG upgrade in the Advanced Armory.
Unless going for HMG rush it's still smarter for the team to get Armslab and Upgrades before going for the HMG.
Like everyone the devs and everyone else say - HMG is supposed to be a midgame weapon, a counter for Fades if you will.
*This was a joke. Chill.*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey I'm not offended. I'm an american, and there's no way I'm giving my next door neighbor a HMG. I mean, if you saw their house, you would understand.
Yeah, I always found it strange that you could just plunk down 35 and basically have all endgame weps. By the time I hand out HMGs I have had an arms lab for a looong time, so it would seem like a good idea to make it dependent on arms lab. Anyway, it is a good idea to get arms lab as soon as possible, otherwise your marines are just lunchmeat.
Personally it looks to me like this patch will in general reduce marine rushing, which I think is a good thing, forcing marines to plod through and push aliens back. I just hope it is balanced enough so that taking away the rush aspect of marines doesn't make them too weak. I can't wait to check it out.
What about not giving resources until the player actually LEAVES the server (or becomes observer, in which case he can never join teams until next round *anyway*).
So then, alien lamers would have to basically sit in RR for the remainder of the game. And if enough tried this, the auto-endgame would kick in when the teams became over-unbalanced.
That seems easier than all this "trickle" trickery.
Although I do wish sometimes that there were a legitimate way that I could give back resources when I'm not using them... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
As far as the HMG rush goes, I don't believe that it is as unstoppable as everyone thinks. It simply requires more cunning on the alien side. Ambush the HMG'er, drop on his head from over a door or wait until they pass you and run up behind them. You know what else will help kill HMG marines faster? Movement Chamber first. Celerity will make it harder for marines to track you.
I thought it was good idea, too bad I forgot which server it was <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Fixed exploit that allowed aliens to look like marines and fire marine weaponry
Great, this really **obscenity** my off !!
- Changed max machine gun ammo to 250 (used to be 300, though it would only display 250)
i don't think that this will make a lot of difference.
I'm fine with it.
- Fixed commander weapon exploit (using lastinv). Weapon commands in general (drop, switch, last) won't work for commanders.
One bug less...
- 3rd party entities are never propagated to client (ie, adminmod_ entities). This could fix an occasional crash (thanks Alfred)
Nice one.
- Moved auto-concession on unfair teams into server variable (mp_autoconcede: if set to greater then 0, then if teams are ever different by this many players, that smaller team loses immediately)
Nice, although i think most admins won't change the standard value anyway.
I still prefer to fight to death and die with honor...
- Dead players can now talk to their teammates in both casual and tourny mode (needed to prevent team from getting an advantage by using external voice program in CAL)
Hmm... the teams get's advantage from dead players talking, because the dead players can SEE.
I was playing on a server last night, where your screen turned black after one died.
This way dead players can not do things like:
"Watch out, a skulk behind you !"
or
"Ok, go to that edge... hmm... everything's fine, move on"
I strongly recommend to add such a option... at least make it a server-variable (i would use it mainly in tourney mode)
- Fixed problem where ammo could be picked up while holding mines
Fixing is good.
Nuff said.
- Aliens without any hives no longer take damage when the server is in tournament mode
Thanks a lot.
But since I have no clan i have to play on publics.. so i still have to live with that.
I recommend to make this a server-variable.
- Add more triggers (for Psychostats and 3rd party program support)
Don't know them to be honest...
if it works, I'm fine with it... just hope it does not create new expolits.
- Added "player built x" (for commander and aliens)
- Added "recycled x"
- Added "started research x"
- Added "cancelled research x"
Nice one, this helps the Marines and Aliens to understand the tactic of their commander or fellow gorges.
Also, if people know the commander is researching HA, they hopefully will stop whinning "give us HA !".
What i miss here is a "commander is upgrading x" (for armory and turret factory)
- Update to use StormTrooper's recent notes
Dunno.
- Fixed visual problem where advanced armory had weird build circle
Hmm.. did happen to me only once or twice, but in fact it's good to have it fixed.
- Reduced radius of acid rocket splash from 200 to 165
That's a start, but I still think the Fade is too powerfull.
- Reduced shotgun cost from 20 to 17
Well, I like the shutgun, but most commanders think it's a waste of resources... so without tweaking the damage a bit or the RoF (i suggest to raise the RoF a bit and leave the damage as it is) the shotty won't see play much more than it does now.
- Reduced welder damage from 10 to 7
Hmm, I'm fine with it.
I think it still tears down alien building down faster than the knive... and that's ok, because you don't have to spend resources on knives.
- Armory can now give out ammo while upgrading to advanced armory (more intuitive)
I think that's ok.
How may time have you been taken out by an alien because you were out of ammo ?
Only once or twice in an endless number of battles!
You die because you have to reload.. that's how things are... so being able to stock up your ammo while armory is upgrading is ok to me.
- Increased cost of infantry portal from 15 to 22
I don't like that one.
20 would have been ok, but 25 is too much.
While alien players complain about the HMG rush, in fact almost every game starts with the aliens rushing the marine base.
It's important that the marines have enough resources to defend themselfes in the first phase of the game.
I tought the cost was ok as it was.
- Increased cost of phase gate from 20 to 25
This one is good, BUT...
- Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000
If you make phase gates more expensive, i think it would be just fair not to make them any weaker.
I've seen a few skuls take out a phase gate in no time (including the marines that were unlucky enough to spawn right into an skulk's open mouth), this change would make it an even more easy target.
Phase gates are one of the most important buildings in the marine game and it's good that their cost is raised, but making them such an easy target is not good.
Aliens can move through the maps faster than the Marines anyway, so please don't slow down the marines his way.
- Increased scan cost from 1 to 3
I'm fine with that one...
- Reduced siege cannon range from 1250 to 1100
NOTES:
- The green circle that appears when the siege cannon is selected by the commander is using the old range, but this will be fixed in v1.1.
- This is the value siege range was for most of our internal playtesting (hence the bast and hera issues that suddenly arrived with v1.0)
It's ok, although i consider the issues with bast and hera where maily a mapping problem than a problem of the siege cannon.
- Siege cannon targets now must be sighted to be hit (in view of friendly player or scanned by commander)
Hmmmmm... I like it... I hate it... I like it... I hate it....
This one is really a hard change in the Marine gameplay.
I like the idea, that a target must be spottet before a siege can lock on it.
On the other hand, if you can see a target, it can see you TOO.
So if a marine aproaches a "wall of lame", he's in serious trouble.. if he wants the siege to target the wall he's got to move into their line of fire most of the time.
- Hives now spawn with full health instead of having to heal up to full health on spawn
Hmm... although i'm an alien player most of the time I don't like this one much.
Aliens are faster than marines anyway and other changes in this patch made Marines weaker and slower.
if the marines have to take care of their phase gates, why should aliens not have to take care of a building hive ?
I think it's fine to speed up the hve building time, ut i can't really cope with an "instant hive" (just put some hot water ofer it and *plopp* there you go).
- Fix bug where advanced turret factories don't have full health
Again, fixing is good...
- Acid rocket showing damage icon when not taking damage? Range working right?
Dunno...
- The advanced armory now has 2400 health instead of 1500 (same as regular armory, this is a fixed bug, not a balance change)
Finally. GJ
- Fixed bug where tournament mode caused some damage to be reduced more then it should be (acid rocket vs. any alien structures)
- Fixed bug where hive would sometimes play wound sound/animation when it got hit but didn't take damage
- Removed lingering "organic" damage type for acid rocket and spore cloud (fixes bug where acid rocket wasn't doing damage properly to organic structures)
And the golden wrench goes to... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Aliens no longer donate their points back to their team resource pool when they leave the team (exploitable)
I encoutered this exploit many time and hate it.
A lot of time when i play alien, we got a gorge on out team that tells us to leave to press f4 so he could build a hive.
It's good to see this one stopped.
I think the "virtual resource tower" is worth thinking about.. i really like that idea!!
- Fixed non-visible motion sensor and proximity "blips" (linux only)
- Defense chambers no longer heal themselves
I like this one
Overall:
I think most of the patch i ok, but i have to say that the marines suffer from the changes.
I think aliens were more powerfull that the marines in prewious versions and some of the changes even broaden the gap <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Decreasing the fade's splash range is a start, but those aliens still are overpowered.
If you build a movement chamber you are dead. Then a marine team would just kill your entire team with LMG's, no mather how sneaky or good you might think you are. Defensechambers is a REQUIREMENT to have a fighting chance versus a marine team. I don't care how "sneaky" you are, a HMG guy will still own you, your teammates and your hive. If you play on public, HMG's might not be that strong, but in a clanwar, it's VERY difficult to counter. It's to strong, and that's a fact.
Make armslab a requirement for advanced armory, and i'm happy.
I look foward to seeing the changes in 1.04, and I'm glad to see the game we love so much is in capable hands.
I thought it was good idea, too bad I forgot which server it was <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was my server.
- Added "player built x" (for commander and aliens)
- Added "recycled x"
- Added "started research x"
- Added "cancelled research x"
That is a really really GOOD thing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Aliens without any hives no longer take damage when the server is in tournament mode
Please make this a fully controlled cvar(mp_autodeath or something) with marines as well, if they dont have a comm chair start poking off marines.
One suggestion I have that is coding wise, Make the impulse commands for changing class as alien and building structures server-side, this would allow banning of players from going gorg and several other things that could be done server-side. (with adminmod or metamod plugins)
Hmm... the teams get's advantage from dead players talking, because the dead players can SEE.
I was playing on a server last night, where your screen turned black after one died.
This way dead players can not do things like:
"Watch out, a skulk behind you !"
or
"Ok, go to that edge... hmm... everything's fine, move on"
I strongly recommend to add such a option... at least make it a server-variable (i would use it mainly in tourney mode)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point with this is that if dead teammates talking were disabled, then clans would just go out and get Roger Wilco or Battlecomm and work around it. The problem here is that none of it is on RECORD, and that can lead to problems. If it's all left in-game, then demo files will record what's said, and all is good. It has to do with having a level playing field.
What about not giving resources until the player actually LEAVES the server (or becomes observer, in which case he can never join teams until next round *anyway*).
So then, alien lamers would have to basically sit in RR for the remainder of the game. And if enough tried this, the auto-endgame would kick in when the teams became over-unbalanced.
That seems easier than all this "trickle" trickery.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason I suggested the trickle idea (which had nothing to do with res-tower rates, I'm not sure where that came in, but It wasn't part of my <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=13872' target='_blank'>earlier thread</a>.
In the trickle thread (although I didn't mention it well) I thought that the server would keep the resources associated with the player. So if a player leaves the server and rejoins fast enough and goes back to alien, then they will still have most of the resources they left with (or rather, the untrickled amount would be returned to them based on their WonID).
If there wasn't some WonID tracking, Aliens could also just change it from the F4-exploit to the retry-exploit, and players with bad connection drops wouldn't be able to reclaim their res.
As for this res-tower-trickle again, a fixed rate would make no sense, because if there was a lot of alien join/parts, then you could get a big backlog of resources that the aliens have to wait... and wait.. and wait for. Having it guaranteed back within a certain time makes more sense, IMO.
Bottom line: Yes, it's more complex, but I think it has the best of both worlds. The aliens don't lose chunks of res mysteriously, and can't use super-donation tactics effectively either, because it takes time, it's gradual, and the alien has to actually STOP playing the game for a comparatively long time to give their resources back.
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> now = poop <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
...
<i><b>some stuff i didnt read...</i></b>
...
.
.
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Overall:
I think most of the patch i ok, but i have to say that the marines suffer from the changes.
I think aliens were more powerfull that the marines in prewious versions and some of the changes even broaden the gap <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Decreasing the fade's splash range is a start, but those aliens still are overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Longest post ever?
BUT does this "- Defense chambers no longer heal themselves" mean that Defense chambers dont heal other Defense chambers or that a Defense chamber cant heal itself?
and again, im sleeeeeeeeeepy, so if this is a stupid post, kick me into bed...
The only bug I've found is that sieges won't target structures that were placed before they were built and were in LOS the whole time. We had a gorge build a defense chamber in the middle of our base, then the comm plopped down some sieges, and the sieges wouldn't lock on. However, acquiring a new target (something built outside LOS then with a marine spotting it) made the siege lock on to it then take out the DC in our base in turn. Just a minor bug, but one that might be exploited by smart, crazy gorges.
But alien Def towers can't be healed? Thats will mess up the alien order.. If they are going to mess it up like this it should be made fair. I think this shouldn't be done and if it is then some marine buildings maybe the CC or Armoury shouldn't be able to be repaired.
Thats bs! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What i think the changes mean, is that the towers can´t heal on their own anymore. IE, a single D tower was able to heal itself without the aid of another D tower. So what this means, is that 2 D towers are a requirement for them to survive.
I think i understood this correctly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you are right! You big belly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Horrible, horrible update. I have agreed with the Dev team all the time since now... god this was awful.
And you know they will... It'll probably get fixed, but I'm just trying to imagine what sorts of structures some wacko gorge would build in plain sight of the marines, quite funny... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marines won 2 games, aliens won 2 ... they had a good comm... we had a good gorg (me) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
now thats balance <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Errr. I. THINK. NOT.
Well a few pages back people were talking about the differences between Euro and american players.
To try out the 1.04 update I went to play on an american server. Bloody hell.... Look, im not saying that all servers over there are the same, but it was a farce.
The thing i noticed the most was the amount of time people spent argueing, calling each other fags.... Maybe the age of the players is younger. 1 game we had a com who was 13, u should have heard his voice in the mic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think there is more cooperation on the UK servers, people are more willing to take orders.
But, all the games I played on that 1.04 server, the marines didnt even come close to getting a foothold in a game. But we did have some lame commanders.