Aiming/Fps Skill does have a HUGE factor into how you can rate your member. Since working in a clan will build your teamwork and strategy as you scrim with the clan its not totally required when joining. Clans look for fps skill and then will incorporate the teamplay down the road.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really wish people would stop with the "bad poll" posts. All polls are inherently flawed, in numerous ways. That's not the point. Flayra, and quite possibly everyone else, merely want a nice measure of the water, so to speak. And it's JUST FINE for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Huh? Flayra wanted to base his decision on the majority opinion, and he wanted a poll to gather it. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't feel particularly strongly either way on this issue, so I ran a poll awhile ago, asking everyone what they thought. The answers <b>overwhelmingly favored</b> removal of the players scores, so I removed them. I don't feel like it was a lapse of vision or focus, I'm perfectly happy with the situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If he was referring to this poll, he obviously misinterpreted the result, as there are 60% pro-score and 40% anti-score votes. I can't see how you could possibly deny that, even with "all polls are always flawed" rhetorics.
I ask you to point out the flaw in the following poll: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Should Alien scores be removed from the scoreboard? (1) Yes (2) No<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OK, you'll still have an unrepresentative voter base (competitive players are underrepresented here), but the result will be as significant as it can possibly get, which is not true for multiple-choice questions.
Don't change it (aliens only) [ 78 ] [12.77%] Proposed v1.1 (alien only, also marines in tourny mode) [ 151 ] [24.71%] Both team kills are always seen [ 134 ] [21.93%] All scores should be hidden (apart from team score) [ 248 ] [40.59%]
Man... stats must be switching like crazy. I don't really care either way I guess- but I can see why some people want 'em gone.
No scores for marines. It would ruin the atmosphere and marines would rambo even more than they do now <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
No deaths for Kharaa, Skulks don't want to xenocide and kamikaze because they are afraid of fying. Kharaa kills can still be shown and in tourny mode all scores could be shown too.
<!--QuoteBegin--Guspaz+Jan 27 2003, 08:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guspaz @ Jan 27 2003, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--rashban+Jan 27 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rashban @ Jan 27 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please, _PLEASE_ show scores for both teams in 1.1. It would really help commanders out to see who is a good shot or not and give out weapons accordingly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's an excellent point! Perhaps in 1.1, all scores could be hidden for everyone except for the commander? (And all shown in tourny mode) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's discrimination why should newer or less skilled player have less fun. What a load of bull****
Here's an idea: hide the scores of all but let the code arrange the list by frags, meaning the best killer will be first but there will be no number.. numbers are meaning less, but reletivity is not, it could help the less good commnder and will give a general idea about the scores.. no numbers yes reletivity <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But what if marines would be awarded for staying with other teammates? Something like a marine gets 1 point for each 1 (or 10 or what ever) tick that he stays with 2 or more teammates. Waddya think? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
the best player in the game is not neccisarily the one with the highest kills. Its the person who folows orders, and defends stratigic positions. Most of the time this relates to the highest score, however if you are given a guard command, you guard it whether it is a hot zone or not.
Following orders sometimes means that your score is not high. however a good comm will know who follows orders and who doesnt so the "only give equipment to teh highest scorer" not an argument. Hiding scores but listing names in the kill order is just as good as showing all scores all the time.
However itll be interesting to have show deaths <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm going to point out that most of the people voted "All the scores should be hidden" probally think that because "If marines don't get to see scores, aliens shouldn't see them either".
ok I voted for show both kill (and by that I meant dont show deaths) However as much as I would like to have scores I can see how it would negatively affect gameplay. statsme or some other stats mod would be ok but then you are giving them the same negatives but taking away the positives of having the team be able to see who is doing well. I think stats or no stats would both affect gameplay with positives and negatives. So basically it comes down to preference. I like to see scores to me it adds to the game. A server side option might be the best as really its a no win situation for gameplay.
Also I would like to point out that a better poll would have been stats or no stats. Then once that was decided if stats won then a poll on how we would do it. I know that some of the people who voted no stats would have a preference as to what the stats would look like even if they dont really want stats.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--Redford+May 22 2003, 08:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ May 22 2003, 08:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm going to point out that most of the people voted "All the scores should be hidden" probally think that because "If marines don't get to see scores, aliens shouldn't see them either".
People can be like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion, that is about as true as saying "most of the people who voted to show scores did so because they think the game is about frags" or "most of the poeple who voted to hide scores did so because they are usually at the bottom of the scoreboard".
im sure this has been said or thought of but since everyone complains about hidden or not hidden i think a personal kill / death counter should be in the hud and only YOU can see it. flame on <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
I propose that they show a scoreboard of "points" instead of frags, eg. killing a skulk gives u 5 points and kiling a fade gives you 20 and destroying structures gives you 10 n' generally, you get points for everything that contributes to the team.
Surely the commander will see who is his best player by looking to the top left of his screen and seeing a name apear alot up there.... SURELY he can then send a team and not his one bestest ever shootiest marine alone so that his bestest shootiest marine will have backup and his bestest shootiest marine wont die as quickly. TBH why have scores, its not DM, its not for personal gain. its about the team, Only sad players (/me looks at CS community) need gratification for having the most kills. Even before CS in TFC clans looked for players who worked well as a team, not he who can hip shoot his super dooper (and highly illegal outside the army (i.e not a weapon anti terrorists would use)) AWM. BUT anyway back to the topic at hand. People need to realise that one man against a 5 skulks may well win. but odds dictate he wont, 2 men have better odds. the odds get better the more men you use in an area. I agree with the team over all kills, BUT not personal ones.
(in relation to mousiehamster's post) OK so if scores are displayd on the board, you may have 20 kills and 5 deaths, does this make you good at NS? no the guy with 0 kills and 12 deaths who has helped his fellow skulks take out marine base in the hive your gorge (who in theory you should be taking orders from btw <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) wants next, is a good NS player. IF personal scores are going to be shown, then they should include building kills also. just one frag still for the building tho .
And Nemesis, Flayra told us to post in this thread... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nope hiding all scores is the winning option. Don't try and twist the poll in your advantage.
Flay is simply a shrewd fellow and the community just keeps falling in his traps.
BTW I'm sure the people that vote to show all scores allways are the same people that want to keep marine jumping lameness and perhaps the lerk bite. Bunch of lamers
actually the majority of the community wants some scores to be shown. But unfortunately the survey is rigged and it appears that no scores won, but it didnt, sorry =/
Calling it rigged would imply conscious manipulation. I believe Flayra wanted the poll to be conclusive, but accidentally constructed it in a way that would make the result misleading and unhelpful.
<!--QuoteBegin--smokingwreckage+May 22 2003, 07:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (smokingwreckage @ May 22 2003, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Note that the number of people who want at least some kill-scores shown far outstrips those who want none, about 150%. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <i>Should the scoreboard be changed? Don't change it (aliens only) [ 83 ] [12.22%] Proposed v1.1 (alien only, also marines in tourny mode) [ 163 ] [24.01%] Both team kills are always seen [ 153 ] [22.53%] All scores should be hidden (apart from team score) [ 280 ] [41.24%] </i>
Or you could read it as: 77.47% does not want marine scores displayed in public mode. 41.24% does not want alien scores displayed in public mode.
53.42% does not want marine scores displayed in tournament mode. 41.24% does not want alien scores displayed in tournament mode.
Still has majority vote on aliens seeing score, but so far, there's no majority on marines seeing scores at any time.
87.78% are in favour of a change in the scoreboard mechanics.
Comments
Huh? Flayra wanted to base his decision on the majority opinion, and he wanted a poll to gather it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't feel particularly strongly either way on this issue, so I ran a poll awhile ago, asking everyone what they thought. The answers <b>overwhelmingly favored</b> removal of the players scores, so I removed them. I don't feel like it was a lapse of vision or focus, I'm perfectly happy with the situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If he was referring to this poll, he obviously misinterpreted the result, as there are 60% pro-score and 40% anti-score votes. I can't see how you could possibly deny that, even with "all polls are always flawed" rhetorics.
I ask you to point out the flaw in the following poll:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Should Alien scores be removed from the scoreboard?
(1) Yes
(2) No<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, you'll still have an unrepresentative voter base (competitive players are underrepresented here), but the result will be as significant as it can possibly get, which is not true for multiple-choice questions.
23% want that the scores of both team are senn all the time
59.5% want that the alien scores are always showed
only 40% want no scores....
Proposed v1.1 (alien only, also marines in tourny mode) [ 151 ] [24.71%]
Both team kills are always seen [ 134 ] [21.93%]
All scores should be hidden (apart from team score) [ 248 ] [40.59%]
Man... stats must be switching like crazy. I don't really care either way I guess- but I can see why some people want 'em gone.
No deaths for Kharaa, Skulks don't want to xenocide and kamikaze because they are afraid of fying. Kharaa kills can still be shown and in tourny mode all scores could be shown too.
That's an excellent point! Perhaps in 1.1, all scores could be hidden for everyone except for the commander? (And all shown in tourny mode) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's discrimination why should newer or less skilled player have less fun.
What a load of bull****
hide the scores of all but let the code arrange the list by frags, meaning the best killer will be first but there will be no number.. numbers are meaning less, but reletivity is not, it could help the less good commnder and will give a general idea about the scores..
no numbers yes reletivity <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Following orders sometimes means that your score is not high. however a good comm will know who follows orders and who doesnt so the "only give equipment to teh highest scorer" not an argument.
Hiding scores but listing names in the kill order is just as good as showing all scores all the time.
However itll be interesting to have show deaths <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
People can be like that.
Also I would like to point out that a better poll would have been stats or no stats. Then once that was decided if stats won then a poll on how we would do it. I know that some of the people who voted no stats would have a preference as to what the stats would look like even if they dont really want stats.
People can be like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion, that is about as true as saying "most of the people who voted to show scores did so because they think the game is about frags" or "most of the poeple who voted to hide scores did so because they are usually at the bottom of the scoreboard".
And Nemesis, Flayra told us to post in this thread... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Flay is simply a shrewd fellow and the community just keeps falling in his traps.
BTW I'm sure the people that vote to show all scores allways are the same people that want to keep marine jumping lameness and perhaps the lerk bite. Bunch of lamers
<i>Should the scoreboard be changed?
Don't change it (aliens only) [ 83 ] [12.22%]
Proposed v1.1 (alien only, also marines in tourny mode) [ 163 ] [24.01%]
Both team kills are always seen [ 153 ] [22.53%]
All scores should be hidden (apart from team score) [ 280 ] [41.24%] </i>
Or you could read it as:
77.47% does not want marine scores displayed in public mode.
41.24% does not want alien scores displayed in public mode.
53.42% does not want marine scores displayed in tournament mode.
41.24% does not want alien scores displayed in tournament mode.
Still has majority vote on aliens seeing score, but so far, there's no majority on marines seeing scores at any time.
87.78% are in favour of a change in the scoreboard mechanics.