TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
I may have to figure out a way to change the Marine jump-sound to a quick WAV of that... it'd be more appropriate, 90% of the time. Only problem is, all you'd hear is 'Get.. get it.. get... get... get... get it... get.. get.. get.. get it off me!' or a horrendous overlay of the whole clip ten or twenty times in a row. It may be funny to watch, but it's a pain to kill a Marine without getting nailed when he's bouncing all over the place like he's having a frickin' seizure. At least until he runs out of ammo, overused to relying on bouncing around like a ferret on crack to get his kills, when he can't shoot for beans against a Skulk that knows how to move.
Skill? It's a <b>CRUTCH</b>. Get over it.
And for those noting on about bunnyhopping Marines.. note the thread topic. 'Hoppy' Marines. Not 'bunnyhopping' marines.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 7 2003, 07:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 7 2003, 07:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And for those noting on about bunnyhopping Marines.. note the thread topic. 'Hoppy' Marines. Not 'bunnyhopping' marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The line between hoppy-as-in-spastic and hoppy-as-in-bunny is somewhat vague though. I think they share enough characteristics (continual jumping) that mixups are understandable. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i thought bunnyhopping was from cs, one bounds while turning rapidly to get more forward momentum out of the game engine, while "hoppy" is skulk evasion while staying relatively in the same area.
They should make jumping slow you down, just like in cs, so that it will become a tool to get someplace(like it should be), instead of a combat tactic.
However, if they do that then they should add some kind of sideways dive or roll, similar to Action Half Life, but not at unrealistic. Maybe a roll that takes you 3 feet to the side, enough to dodge a charging skulk/fade/onos. There should be a charge time for it though, so you dont get marines that roll around the map.
Personally, I dont think it's that big of a deal. A hopping marine is usually less accurate, so I just run around until he runs out of ammo, then I snack. This game is all about using you head, not your "l337 5ki||5". Although being an **** kicker helps.
Why don't real marines hop around when fighting? It's because their aim becomes horrible. All that's needed is for the marine's aim to depend on how he's positioned. If he's crouched, he gets the best aim. If he's standing up, it's second best aim. If he's walking around, it's 3rd best. If he's jumping it's the worst. It doesn't have to be so sensitive like Rainbow Six where you can't shoot a target in front of you if you're running forward with a shotgun point-blank, but enough to give the marines more to get skillful at and of course this will discourage the jumping when battling.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 7 2003, 02:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 7 2003, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It may be funny to watch, but it's a pain to kill a Marine without getting nailed when he's bouncing all over the place like he's having a frickin' seizure. At least until he runs out of ammo, overused to relying on bouncing around like a ferret on crack to get his kills, when he can't shoot for beans against a Skulk that knows how to move.
Skill? It's a <b>CRUTCH</b>. Get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* Bunnyhopping is a crutch the same way shooting a gun is a crutch. Also, I hate those skill-less marines shooting the skulks before they get there, not using the knife. Anyway, most people that can bunnyhop have a pretty good aim as well, since bunnyhopping is a fairly involved skill that only comes after a lot of FPS playing (which involves aiming). I doubt after bunnyhopping is removed that people that used to bunnyhop will suddenly be bad at the game. No wonder you don't like bunnyhopping; you can't bunnyhop or kill bunnyhoppers. The easiest way to fix this "problem" to you is to get it removed from the game. Actually learning to deal with it is crazy talk, because only malicious hackers and cheaters bunnyhop.
Something you can do? It's a skill. Something you can't do? It's a crutch.
And please don't bring up the "it's an exploit" argument. Definitions of exploits are arbitrary; you can't say something is an exploit because it wasn't "intended". People come up with strategies every day that Flayra did not directly intend.
The point is moot, BHing will be changed. I just wish we knew how so at least we could beat a new horse, this ones been beaten so bad, you can't even tell it was a horse. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I played CS since day 2, or maybe it was one I am not sure. During 1.0 I decided to sit down and learn how to bunny-hop. Spent 10 hours doing it. The thing with CS was it was designed so that the bunny hopping added to the game. I remember 1.3 where the only gun I used was a deagle. I would come bouncing around anime style and flick off some head shots. Good times. Then they took it away and I hate that game. The difference here is that Natural-Selection and jumping marines just don't go together. A stealthy alien lerks in a vent and then leaps out at a passing marine about to rip his head off (sounds just like a leet movie so far), but WAIT... bounce bounce bounce. If anyone were to see this it would be like WTF??!? My point is that it detracts from the entire feel/movie like quality NS has. Just my 2 cents.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kilmster+Feb 7 2003, 03:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kilmster @ Feb 7 2003, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens can bunnyhop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> aliens are running jumping climbing creatures, course they hop.. thats how they move for a good part >_>
<!--QuoteBegin--Draxo+Feb 7 2003, 07:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Draxo @ Feb 7 2003, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Kilmster+Feb 7 2003, 03:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kilmster @ Feb 7 2003, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens can bunnyhop. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> aliens are running jumping climbing creatures, course they hop.. thats how they move for a good part >_> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So are humans
they woouldnt be marines without going throgh bootcamp. in bootcamp they teach you and build up your muscles tons. so from all the strength your such a buff marine you can jump forever. did you know? if there was a stamina bar it would be good like a flf stamina bar. it allows about 4 jumps, just enough, but no bunny hopping..
<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Feb 7 2003, 03:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Feb 7 2003, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *sigh* Bunnyhopping is a crutch the same way shooting a gun is a crutch. Also, I hate those skill-less marines shooting the skulks before they get there, not using the knife. Anyway, most people that can bunnyhop have a pretty good aim as well, since bunnyhopping is a fairly involved skill that only comes after a lot of FPS playing (which involves aiming). I doubt after bunnyhopping is removed that people that used to bunnyhop will suddenly be bad at the game. No wonder you don't like bunnyhopping; you can't bunnyhop or kill bunnyhoppers. The easiest way to fix this "problem" to you is to get it removed from the game. Actually learning to deal with it is crazy talk, because only malicious hackers and cheaters bunnyhop.
Something you can do? It's a skill. Something you can't do? It's a crutch.
And please don't bring up the "it's an exploit" argument. Definitions of exploits are arbitrary; you can't say something is an exploit because it wasn't "intended". People come up with strategies every day that Flayra did not directly intend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Random, are you a masochist or something? You hate anyone who uses a gun to kill a skulk? You recommend the knife?? LOL that's frickin' crazy.
You're like many people who love to do things other cannot. Sadly, the art of escaping the backpedal restrictions in the game of Natural Selection has been debated, has been talked about, has been flamed, and continues to do all 3 of these, and the management (read: Devs) decided that the best thing to do is to find some way to restrict bunny hopping to keep it out of their game. The reason is that it detracts from some of the reasons they made this game (teamwork going from necessary to optional, for example).
Here's another (albeit flamey) example for you.
Something you can do? That's good. Something you can do that they're going to nerf? What? OMG j00 n00bs, quit messing with my game.
Chances are the backpedal will still be able to be bypassed by jumping around like monkeys, but at least you can't keep pace with skulks anymore while backwards jumping away.
To be honest, I could probably care less if they did or did not remove bunny-hopping, but the reason why they removed it from CS is because it was pretty much decided that it detracted from the game. The same with DoD (I'd assume, anyways), and the same with NS. Get over it, you lost the war ;-) (I've always wanted to say that, being from Alabama)
cs: I would say it was a _huge_ step for the better. It kinda kills the feel of the game when the special-forces rescue team bunnies their way into a hostage room you know ? Team Leader: "ok men....stack up...mirror for suspects...go go go !!!...bounce, and lift ! ...bounce, and lift ! ... and bounce !...oh you're such a wonderful group of guys !!...bounce, and lift! ...." ... see what I mean ?
ns: I would say it detracts from the game also. Not as much as cs though, because ns is not meant to be a 'realistic' shooter. I personally jump as a defensive move semi-often in a close range skulk fight. I believe they should add a "mighty foot" ala duke Nukem option for the marines <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> It may be sacrifcing a leg...but what the hell...
CS has no bearing on this... that said.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think what annoyed me the most about CS's solution to bunnyhopping was that it nerfed my main strategy with shotguns. During some games it was just fun to abandon the play-to-win mentality and take a pumpshotty. The secret of shotguns is that in CS they have the same accuracy regardless of your movement. In other words, of you're leaping through the air like a Matrix wannabe, the shotgun will be just as accurate as if you were crouched. It was quite interesting to have the occasional round where you massacred the opponents with a pumpshotty.
Rushing an underpass AWPer (who took out some of your teammates) on Dust as a lone CT and winning with a pump shotty is a very interesting feeling <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ive never had a problem with bunnyhopping except where it doesnt belong... It does NOT belong in ns.
People .. you must understand that Marine backpedal speed is 20% for a REASON... ITS NOT MEANT TO BE BYPASSED.
You think hey.. im not doing that much harm... but in fact you are exploiting the game. A skulk cannot eat what it cannot catch.... its almost like the bully in 4th grade that held your forehead at arms length.. and no matter how far you streched you could not hit him....
I used to hop, but then i realised it only got me killed faster since the skulk was always expecting it and jumping along. Now i crouch the skulks usually either jump over me or get confused of the whereabouts of my position.
My solution? Remove jumping for the marines. Seriously what do they need it for? Boosting each other into vents? Thats the only thing people use it for in NS (other then hopping).
I know this idea is extreme and will never be implimented but, meh i can dream cant i?
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Feb 7 2003, 12:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Feb 7 2003, 12:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 7 2003, 02:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 7 2003, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It may be funny to watch, but it's a pain to kill a Marine without getting nailed when he's bouncing all over the place like he's having a frickin' seizure. At least until he runs out of ammo, overused to relying on bouncing around like a ferret on crack to get his kills, when he can't shoot for beans against a Skulk that knows how to move.
Skill? It's a <b>CRUTCH</b>. Get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* Bunnyhopping is a crutch the same way shooting a gun is a crutch. Also, I hate those skill-less marines shooting the skulks before they get there, not using the knife. Anyway, most people that can bunnyhop have a pretty good aim as well, since bunnyhopping is a fairly involved skill that only comes after a lot of FPS playing (which involves aiming). I doubt after bunnyhopping is removed that people that used to bunnyhop will suddenly be bad at the game. No wonder you don't like bunnyhopping; you can't bunnyhop or kill bunnyhoppers. The easiest way to fix this "problem" to you is to get it removed from the game. Actually learning to deal with it is crazy talk, because only malicious hackers and cheaters bunnyhop.
Something you can do? It's a skill. Something you can't do? It's a crutch.
And please don't bring up the "it's an exploit" argument. Definitions of exploits are arbitrary; you can't say something is an exploit because it wasn't "intended". People come up with strategies every day that Flayra did not directly intend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, I can do it. I just DON'T, because it has no place in NS.
An 'exploit' is defined by what the devs call an exploit. Currently, bunnyhopping is listed among those. Making it an exploit, no matter how you feel like arguing semantics. I'm certain that those who exploit r_drawviewmodels feel the exact same way (also listed as an exploit, scheduled to be removed in 1.1 along with bunnyhopping) as they're screaming bloody murder about how they can't see. When it was INTENDED that their vision be at least partly blocked when attacking.
I'm certain those who use the pistol-hacks, speed-firing exploits, eternal-jetpacks, and hitbox bugs to keep themselves alive will scream similarly when they find out that they can't be used any more.
Yes, strategies are developed daily that the devs did not directly intend. Of these, some are labelled as exploits. Others are accepted as part of the game. Those that are exploits will be removed. Bunnyhopping, in this regard, is no different than the 'eternal cloak' bug of 1.02 fame, or the 'Marine-skinned Alien' of 1.03. It's a glitch in the system that will be expunged, and leave those who utilized it feeling cheated because their pet bug was squashed.
I never said I bunny hop, I just said I had no problem with it. There is a difference. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
There are some things you can do to combat bunny hopping other than removing it entirely. You could always impliment the old "random direction" tactic. So when a player jumps his scren shakes and the crosshairs move in a different direction (the HL mod Firearms has this). Or you could impliment a stamina bar ala DoD or FA, but quite frankly i have enough things cluttering my screen at the moment. You could always "restrict" firing while jumping, but i dont like this idea.
So in the end...leave it up to the devs, im sure they will figure something out.
The jump rate should be changed to a jump every 2 seconds or something. That should cause marines to jump much less. And oh yeah, bunnyhopping definitely needs to be removed, because a marine isn't meant to be able to exceed the movement speed set down in the config.
How many in here actually beleive Sierra said "Omg! Let's make a bad code that lets players go 3x faster than they are supposed to!" It <b>is</b> an exploit, because it is <b>exploiting</b> a mistake in the code. It may take skill to do, but that doesn't mean that it is either skillful, or fair to do. It's just like r_draw, it gives an unfair advantage. So what do we do now? Well we remove b-hopping (which by the way has already been said it will be adressed in 1.1). That wasn't that hard to solve.
Morale: If you want to move across the map faster, get a jetpack. If you want to be silent, crouch walk across the map. Just don't abuse bad coding to do either.
I don't normally post on forums (this is my first for NS) but some of the stuff on this thread really made me laugh. Now, first off, I'm pretty much a "n00b". I rarely get higher than a 1 for 1 kill to death ratio on counterstrike. I'm also sort of a "scrub" because I usually try to avoid playing the super cheap characters like akuma. Last, until I read this thread, I thought that bunny hopping was jumping around trying to dodge the skulks running at you, as opposed to a form of faster mobility.
People in defense of bunny hopping said it took them time and it takes skill. I closed the thread, opened up halflife on a lan, and set the level to seige 005 (a custom map with plenty of space).
It took me a whole minute to learn to bunny hop. Not with any huge increase in speed, but there was an obvious increase. This was, however, with the aid of console commands to ease the process (I used my brain; if bunny hopping has something to do with friction, then turn off friction and practice ice skating for thirty seconds without jumping. hey, I can move faster by turning the mouse or just moving left and right. Turn friction back up to four... and jump again and again. hey, I can jump faster by doing the same thing!)
Skill isn't a very good arguement; took me a minute, I swear, to do it without ever having done it before. Although I have no real opinion about the actual hopping, I doubt I'll personally be doing it. I just typed this up because I wanted to thank those who put up intelligent arguements, and to make those who post one liners like "It takes skill, so nyah!" type something a little more in depth. Otherwise, counter examples are bound to appear, and without intelligent debate were you slowly prove points (not just banter back and forth), things go on forever.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Heh, this guy is really cool.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited February 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Silver Fox+Feb 17 2003, 04:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Silver Fox @ Feb 17 2003, 04:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--||SemperFi||+Feb 17 2003, 08:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (||SemperFi|| @ Feb 17 2003, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My solution? Remove jumping for the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ah hahahaha
nearly the exact same phase I used in nearly an exact same post.
guess because you dont have the playtester title, the public doesnt see the need to jump down your **** and accuse you of being a dumb **** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah, that's just 'cuz foxes are highly overrated. Not to mention spammy nubbycakes. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't know how many of you on the forums have played with me, but I have held down entire hives, entire bases, killed entire team of skulks and gorges, and won games, by (GASP) walking slowly and crouching in strategic positions with a pistol.
Many people who learned how to bunnyhop instantly believes that it is a HUGE advantage for them, and proceeds on to doing it, regardless of how many times they die. Even more people do NOT realize the HUGE advantage you get as a marine, by not making excessive noise, and by crouching/hiding. Kharaa hive sight is NOT motion tracking, they do NOT know where you are if they can't hear you.
This applies to Fades as well, if you can be silent and patient, once a Fade runs by you and has his back to you, you've already won half the fight.
Give my style of play a try the next time you play. You might even realize that the element of suprise is a bigger advantage than a faster moving speed. Would you rather get there 20 seconds faster, but letting their whole team know you are there? Or would u take the extra 20 seconds, and turn the corner into a team of dumb-founded aliens?
I have a tendency to hop around a lot, but that's mainly due to my days in Team Fortress Classic. I NEVER BUNNYHOPPED, but jumping around was something pretty much mandatory for survival.
In Natural Selection, I always hop around when I'm a skulk because it keeps marines from being able to hit me.
When playing the marine side, I have difficulty NOT jumping, simply because I got used to it from playing on the alien team. Also, I feel very insecure, afraid that I might get jumped if I don't jump. I have found, when fighting skulks, that if I add a jump in there every once in a while, when circle strafing, I am harder to hit than before. I have attempted to tone down the jumping, since it does look so goofy.
I have yet to see how jumping backwards makes me move any faster than simply walking backwards. I don't really care to find out.
I wouldn't mind it if the developers toned down the jumping frequency or strength. I really would not like it removed altogether, since regular humans can jump just fine. Light marine uniforms certainly don't look restricting. Heavy armor suits do seem heavier, but I don't think jumping should be removed entirely, even for them. A stamina system would be helpful in this case, but I would prefer something along the lines of Timmy's suggestion, rather than that in Day of Defeat. I'm not a big fan of the stamina system there, since it slows down the speed of the walking, as well as the jumping, because the soldier jumped three times in a row. It worked (somewhat) for DoD, but I don't think it would be good for Natural Selection.
Comments
It still looks silly when marines do it.
It may be funny to watch, but it's a pain to kill a Marine without getting nailed when he's bouncing all over the place like he's having a frickin' seizure. At least until he runs out of ammo, overused to relying on bouncing around like a ferret on crack to get his kills, when he can't shoot for beans against a Skulk that knows how to move.
Skill? It's a <b>CRUTCH</b>. Get over it.
And for those noting on about bunnyhopping Marines.. note the thread topic. 'Hoppy' Marines. Not 'bunnyhopping' marines.
The line between hoppy-as-in-spastic and hoppy-as-in-bunny is somewhat vague though. I think they share enough characteristics (continual jumping) that mixups are understandable. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
semantics suck.
However, if they do that then they should add some kind of sideways dive or roll, similar to Action Half Life, but not at unrealistic. Maybe a roll that takes you 3 feet to the side, enough to dodge a charging skulk/fade/onos. There should be a charge time for it though, so you dont get marines that roll around the map.
Personally, I dont think it's that big of a deal. A hopping marine is usually less accurate, so I just run around until he runs out of ammo, then I snack. This game is all about using you head, not your "l337 5ki||5". Although being an **** kicker helps.
Skill? It's a <b>CRUTCH</b>. Get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* Bunnyhopping is a crutch the same way shooting a gun is a crutch. Also, I hate those skill-less marines shooting the skulks before they get there, not using the knife. Anyway, most people that can bunnyhop have a pretty good aim as well, since bunnyhopping is a fairly involved skill that only comes after a lot of FPS playing (which involves aiming). I doubt after bunnyhopping is removed that people that used to bunnyhop will suddenly be bad at the game. No wonder you don't like bunnyhopping; you can't bunnyhop or kill bunnyhoppers. The easiest way to fix this "problem" to you is to get it removed from the game. Actually learning to deal with it is crazy talk, because only malicious hackers and cheaters bunnyhop.
Something you can do? It's a skill.
Something you can't do? It's a crutch.
And please don't bring up the "it's an exploit" argument. Definitions of exploits are arbitrary; you can't say something is an exploit because it wasn't "intended". People come up with strategies every day that Flayra did not directly intend.
aliens are running jumping climbing creatures, course they hop.. thats how they move for a good part >_>
I NO.
aliens are running jumping climbing creatures, course they hop.. thats how they move for a good part >_> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So are humans
Take a look at athletes...lol
Something you can do? It's a skill.
Something you can't do? It's a crutch.
And please don't bring up the "it's an exploit" argument. Definitions of exploits are arbitrary; you can't say something is an exploit because it wasn't "intended". People come up with strategies every day that Flayra did not directly intend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Random, are you a masochist or something? You hate anyone who uses a gun to kill a skulk? You recommend the knife?? LOL that's frickin' crazy.
You're like many people who love to do things other cannot. Sadly, the art of escaping the backpedal restrictions in the game of Natural Selection has been debated, has been talked about, has been flamed, and continues to do all 3 of these, and the management (read: Devs) decided that the best thing to do is to find some way to restrict bunny hopping to keep it out of their game. The reason is that it detracts from some of the reasons they made this game (teamwork going from necessary to optional, for example).
Here's another (albeit flamey) example for you.
Something you can do? That's good.
Something you can do that they're going to nerf? What? OMG j00 n00bs, quit messing with my game.
Chances are the backpedal will still be able to be bypassed by jumping around like monkeys, but at least you can't keep pace with skulks anymore while backwards jumping away.
To be honest, I could probably care less if they did or did not remove bunny-hopping, but the reason why they removed it from CS is because it was pretty much decided that it detracted from the game. The same with DoD (I'd assume, anyways), and the same with NS. Get over it, you lost the war ;-) (I've always wanted to say that, being from Alabama)
cs: I would say it was a _huge_ step for the better. It kinda kills the feel of the game when the special-forces rescue team bunnies their way into a hostage room you know ? Team Leader: "ok men....stack up...mirror for suspects...go go go !!!...bounce, and lift ! ...bounce, and lift ! ... and bounce !...oh you're such a wonderful group of guys !!...bounce, and lift! ...." ... see what I mean ?
ns: I would say it detracts from the game also. Not as much as cs though, because ns is not meant to be a 'realistic' shooter. I personally jump as a defensive move semi-often in a close range skulk fight. I believe they should add a "mighty foot" ala duke Nukem option for the marines <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> It may be sacrifcing a leg...but what the hell...
I think what annoyed me the most about CS's solution to bunnyhopping was that it nerfed my main strategy with shotguns. During some games it was just fun to abandon the play-to-win mentality and take a pumpshotty. The secret of shotguns is that in CS they have the same accuracy regardless of your movement. In other words, of you're leaping through the air like a Matrix wannabe, the shotgun will be just as accurate as if you were crouched. It was quite interesting to have the occasional round where you massacred the opponents with a pumpshotty.
Rushing an underpass AWPer (who took out some of your teammates) on Dust as a lone CT and winning with a pump shotty is a very interesting feeling <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopping to avoid a Skulk:
Egad! You mean I should let him sink his fangs into my foot? Ok!
*also bends over so burly men can anally assault him*
Bunny-Hopping:
Meh, I could care less.
Silent Bunny-Hopping:
This is an exploit plain and simple.
People .. you must understand that Marine backpedal speed is 20% for a REASON... ITS NOT MEANT TO BE BYPASSED.
You think hey.. im not doing that much harm... but in fact you are exploiting the game. A skulk cannot eat what it cannot catch.... its almost like the bully in 4th grade that held your forehead at arms length.. and no matter how far you streched you could not hit him....
My solution? Remove jumping for the marines. Seriously what do they need it for? Boosting each other into vents? Thats the only thing people use it for in NS (other then hopping).
I know this idea is extreme and will never be implimented but, meh i can dream cant i?
Skill? It's a <b>CRUTCH</b>. Get over it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* Bunnyhopping is a crutch the same way shooting a gun is a crutch. Also, I hate those skill-less marines shooting the skulks before they get there, not using the knife. Anyway, most people that can bunnyhop have a pretty good aim as well, since bunnyhopping is a fairly involved skill that only comes after a lot of FPS playing (which involves aiming). I doubt after bunnyhopping is removed that people that used to bunnyhop will suddenly be bad at the game. No wonder you don't like bunnyhopping; you can't bunnyhop or kill bunnyhoppers. The easiest way to fix this "problem" to you is to get it removed from the game. Actually learning to deal with it is crazy talk, because only malicious hackers and cheaters bunnyhop.
Something you can do? It's a skill.
Something you can't do? It's a crutch.
And please don't bring up the "it's an exploit" argument. Definitions of exploits are arbitrary; you can't say something is an exploit because it wasn't "intended". People come up with strategies every day that Flayra did not directly intend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I can do it. I just DON'T, because it has no place in NS.
An 'exploit' is defined by what the devs call an exploit. Currently, bunnyhopping is listed among those. Making it an exploit, no matter how you feel like arguing semantics. I'm certain that those who exploit r_drawviewmodels feel the exact same way (also listed as an exploit, scheduled to be removed in 1.1 along with bunnyhopping) as they're screaming bloody murder about how they can't see. When it was INTENDED that their vision be at least partly blocked when attacking.
I'm certain those who use the pistol-hacks, speed-firing exploits, eternal-jetpacks, and hitbox bugs to keep themselves alive will scream similarly when they find out that they can't be used any more.
Yes, strategies are developed daily that the devs did not directly intend. Of these, some are labelled as exploits. Others are accepted as part of the game. Those that are exploits will be removed. Bunnyhopping, in this regard, is no different than the 'eternal cloak' bug of 1.02 fame, or the 'Marine-skinned Alien' of 1.03. It's a glitch in the system that will be expunged, and leave those who utilized it feeling cheated because their pet bug was squashed.
So in the end...leave it up to the devs, im sure they will figure something out.
ah hahahaha
nearly the exact same phase I used in nearly an exact same post.
guess because you dont have the playtester title, the public doesnt see the need to jump down your **** and accuse you of being a dumb ****
Morale: If you want to move across the map faster, get a jetpack. If you want to be silent, crouch walk across the map. Just don't abuse bad coding to do either.
People in defense of bunny hopping said it took them time and it takes skill. I closed the thread, opened up halflife on a lan, and set the level to seige 005 (a custom map with plenty of space).
It took me a whole minute to learn to bunny hop. Not with any huge increase in speed, but there was an obvious increase. This was, however, with the aid of console commands to ease the process (I used my brain; if bunny hopping has something to do with friction, then turn off friction and practice ice skating for thirty seconds without jumping. hey, I can move faster by turning the mouse or just moving left and right. Turn friction back up to four... and jump again and again. hey, I can jump faster by doing the same thing!)
Skill isn't a very good arguement; took me a minute, I swear, to do it without ever having done it before. Although I have no real opinion about the actual hopping, I doubt I'll personally be doing it. I just typed this up because I wanted to thank those who put up intelligent arguements, and to make those who post one liners like "It takes skill, so nyah!" type something a little more in depth. Otherwise, counter examples are bound to appear, and without intelligent debate were you slowly prove points (not just banter back and forth), things go on forever.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Heh, this guy is really cool.
ah hahahaha
nearly the exact same phase I used in nearly an exact same post.
guess because you dont have the playtester title, the public doesnt see the need to jump down your **** and accuse you of being a dumb **** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, that's just 'cuz foxes are highly overrated. Not to mention spammy nubbycakes. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Many people who learned how to bunnyhop instantly believes that it is a HUGE advantage for them, and proceeds on to doing it, regardless of how many times they die. Even more people do NOT realize the HUGE advantage you get as a marine, by not making excessive noise, and by crouching/hiding. Kharaa hive sight is NOT motion tracking, they do NOT know where you are if they can't hear you.
This applies to Fades as well, if you can be silent and patient, once a Fade runs by you and has his back to you, you've already won half the fight.
Give my style of play a try the next time you play. You might even realize that the element of suprise is a bigger advantage than a faster moving speed. Would you rather get there 20 seconds faster, but letting their whole team know you are there? Or would u take the extra 20 seconds, and turn the corner into a team of dumb-founded aliens?
In Natural Selection, I always hop around when I'm a skulk because it keeps marines from being able to hit me.
When playing the marine side, I have difficulty NOT jumping, simply because I got used to it from playing on the alien team. Also, I feel very insecure, afraid that I might get jumped if I don't jump. I have found, when fighting skulks, that if I add a jump in there every once in a while, when circle strafing, I am harder to hit than before. I have attempted to tone down the jumping, since it does look so goofy.
I have yet to see how jumping backwards makes me move any faster than simply walking backwards. I don't really care to find out.
I wouldn't mind it if the developers toned down the jumping frequency or strength. I really would not like it removed altogether, since regular humans can jump just fine. Light marine uniforms certainly don't look restricting. Heavy armor suits do seem heavier, but I don't think jumping should be removed entirely, even for them.
A stamina system would be helpful in this case, but I would prefer something along the lines of Timmy's suggestion, rather than that in Day of Defeat. I'm not a big fan of the stamina system there, since it slows down the speed of the walking, as well as the jumping, because the soldier jumped three times in a row. It worked (somewhat) for DoD, but I don't think it would be good for Natural Selection.