ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Remove bunny-hopping for BOTH teams. It is an exploit no matter which team you're on. Aliens shouldn't able to go above the speed the devs wanted them to go (unless they use leap or something)
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Uh... they are. v1.1. Just bouncing around like a ferret having an epileptic seizure isn't counted as bunnyhopping. I'd like to see that gone from the Marine side... makes sense for Aliens where they're just carrying themself. Marines have about 60 pounds (around four stone) of gear at the best of times. Add in a good chunk when carrying a full-ammo HMG or GL.. but no, though they walk slower, they can jump around like stupid-looking monkeys just as easily.
This bunny hop, slow down, dull, boring, gameplay style KILLS
As alien:
You can hear a marine just round the corner, building something... You and 3 other skulk rushes towards him, time goes bye and you find youself.. DEAD, along with the other skulks.
"omg how he do that?? there were 4 of us, darnit!" <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
and comments like that gets thrown around... tough luck(or skill or whatever) you will respawn and kill him next time.
As marine:
You hear the incomming skulks, stops building the RT and now fears the worse. One skulks pops up from the vent, you kill it, and now 3 other skulks appear at the end of the corridor. fast reload, and the skulks get closer and starts biting.. you start jumping to "evade" the bites, kills them one by one, and soon its all over... you claimed the res spot, and killed 4 skulks all by your self. ...AND MAN DOES THAT FEEL GOOD! ADRENALIN YEHA <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
thats the things i like in NS and every other games.. you prepare for the battle you KNOW your ganna loose, and soon you find youself still alive...
what happened..? you were faster than the enemy... you had more skill or luck....
when im the alien, i go ****.. hes good, oh well he wont succeed next time.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
as the marine you dont get to think, its all abour reflexes, because the game is soo fast... and only when its over you have time to think.. and man can you feel the adrenalin running through your vanes <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
you take that speed off the game you kill the fun... it might still be fun building and all, but those rushes is what im looking for...
my oppinion, i dont think ill be playing for long when the game dont have those surprises, those rushes, those damn adrenalin kicks anymore
I have NO FRICKEN CLUE where you "OMG slow = boring" people come from. Especially since a lot of arguments against bunnyhopping are 'countered' with "It will slow it down and make it SUCK, just like CS." A bit of slow-pace is good for contrast, it makes the fast bits seem even faster.
Okay... how to explain this...? Everyone loves hiding above a doorway as a skulk, waiting for the right moment and then munching the unsuspecting marines, right? Well, what if the game was NOTHING BUT THAT. You'd face against bots who would walk under the doorway and generally behave quite like human players. If you wanted to, you could have a skulk buddy (human or bot). You'd preform drop after drop after drop, and it would be fun for a while, but it would get old pretty fast. The intensity would still be there, but you'd be numb to it, and at that point it wouldn't be fun anymore.
The lead-up (getting into the right position in front of marines, etc. etc.) and the impact on the game (hive/position saved) are major parts of the experience. (CS analogy: ) Taking out the entire team single-handedly after your buddies all die is much, much more than simply getting 7 or 8 kills in a row without dying.
<!--QuoteBegin--Evil Timmy+Feb 1 2003, 11:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Feb 1 2003, 11:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A simple solution is to reduce the jump height by 25% for every jump less than one second from the last, but not slow the player down at all. I hate CS's 'you can still jump as high, but you slow down' system, which makes no sense. If you're running and you jump, you'll speed up for a moment then stay the same speed you were before, and any successive jumps will be shorter than the last, because those muscles tire very easily and it's a high-impact motion. So, reduce jump height on multiple successive jumps, but don't reduce the speed, and you've got a fair compromise. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like his idea of reducing how high the Marine jumps as he jumps more frequently. Reducing speed will degrade the fun a little.
<!--QuoteBegin--mR.Waffles+Feb 7 2003, 04:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mR.Waffles @ Feb 7 2003, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I played CS since day 2, or maybe it was one I am not sure. During 1.0 I decided to sit down and learn how to bunny-hop. Spent 10 hours doing it. The thing with CS was it was designed so that the bunny hopping added to the game. I remember 1.3 where the only gun I used was a deagle. I would come bouncing around anime style and flick off some head shots. Good times. Then they took it away and I hate that game. The difference here is that Natural-Selection and jumping marines just don't go together. A stealthy alien lerks in a vent and then leaps out at a passing marine about to rip his head off (sounds just like a leet movie so far), but WAIT... bounce bounce bounce. If anyone were to see this it would be like WTH??!? My point is that it detracts from the entire feel/movie like quality NS has. Just my 2 cents. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.0 wasnt day 1 for cs! lol not by far...oh well carry on
<!--QuoteBegin--[KillnKenny]+Feb 2 2003, 02:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([KillnKenny] @ Feb 2 2003, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why do Marines jump in a fight?
The answer is simple: Because it allows him to move backwards fast.
The developers slowed the backpedal speed down for a reason. It gives skulks a chance to close onto their prey quickly - and forces a Marine to actually "turn his back" if he wants to run away. The current backwards-jumping tactics (which I use too) are a way bypass this "feature".
My suggestion - make backwards-jumping the same speed as backwards running. Leave rest alone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well that pretty much sums it up and why I hate it myself. As for the potential Solutions:
Kill Kenny's: Add his regardless of what else you do, its an exploit fix and a no brainer.
Remove Jumping: Almost as much as I want to agree with this, no, marines can reach the occassional odd vent duct with this.
CS style slowdown: This would be the most reasonable in my opinion. Now I know the omgyouF******noobwhineradaptyouwhinerscrubnoob!!!!!1111oneone guys hate this b/c it means 'even a newbie can hit you easily'. Ever stop to wonder if the ability to dodge bullets was intended or not. CS for the shallow former husk of what it could have been was not intended for one expert quake 3 player to burst into a room dodging bullets like he was neo from the matrix and take down the entire team of terorists. That was supposed to get you killed. NS is supposed to be more akin to a RTS where its more of a numbers battle rather than skill, one standard marine is not supposed to be able to smoke 4 skulks ambushing him from 2 directions at once. Sorry guys, go pick up your rocket launchers and head home.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 18 2003, 12:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 18 2003, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An 'exploit' is defined by what the devs call an exploit. Currently, bunnyhopping is listed among those. Making it an exploit, no matter how you feel like arguing semantics. I'm certain that those who exploit r_drawviewmodels feel the exact same way (also listed as an exploit, scheduled to be removed in 1.1 along with bunnyhopping) as they're screaming bloody murder about how they can't see. When it was INTENDED that their vision be at least partly blocked when attacking. squashed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it now? I'm rather confident that the devs decided that it must go out in 1.1. That it doesn't belong in the game after all. As of 1.04 it is not an exploit, so go bunny hop till you vomit.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Anyways you guys practice bhopping all you want. In 1.1 your skill will be useless and you will have wasted time.
Oh, and Mr. Waffles, you think it doesn't detract from CS's atmosphere to have people with machine guns and pistols JUMPING up and down while shooting? You think REAL special forces do that? Yeah right...
Um ok this is when i see bhopping as unreasonable, playing against one of the better clan in australia -
as aliens we would be whackin the marines down like mad, but there was 2 guys on the opposition clan who would bhop well - and whenver they were chased by a skulk they could run backwards, jumping, and running as fast as a skulk or faster while picking us off with the pistol. you know what? that lost us the game. - these two guys ran the whole way from marine spawn with shotguns, jumping backwards, and cained the crap out of us, then the hive while one shot respawners. I was so angry right then.
Anyway - bhopping does take atmosphere out of ns - i vote nerf!
I wish we could see jumping for marines disabled completely when they are moving around, but, when they got up to an object or area where they were meant to jump/get in, then a flag was introduced that allowed them to jump. Then just flag crates, railings, ladders, etc, etc.
That seems like it would take quite a bit of work to implement, and is a major change, but once it was working and the maps were changed to meet the requirement, it would solve all issues of hopping and bunnyhopping (there is a difference).
i can think of a simple solution which no1 appears to have thought of before,
bunnyhopping requires the player to jump the moment he touches the ground while strafing and he picks up speed because of the hl engines physics flaws...
to eliminate bunnyhopping, make it so that the player cannot jump if he has just landed, it makes sense when u think about it becos u have to bend your knees
What annoys me is marines that move around the map at normal speed without making any noise by kind of crouch jumping left and right it looks really stupid but enables marines to do something that were not ment to be able to do.
Concerning atmosphere, I don't see what the big fuss is about. It's a GAME. Games are supposed to let you do things you can't do in real life, not perfectly mimic it. The silly stuff is half the fun. =) Don't take games seriously, and you won't be annoyed.
I think the best idea I've heard so far would be to make a time limit before you can make your next jump - say 2 or 3 seconds. This would still allow you to get in vents and over obstacles, but reduce the effectiveness of hopping around in combat. If anyone has ever played Asheron's Call, you'll remember when they added the jump timer. Think of something like that.
Comments
As alien:
You can hear a marine just round the corner, building something... You and 3 other skulk rushes towards him, time goes bye and you find youself.. DEAD, along with the other skulks.
"omg how he do that?? there were 4 of us, darnit!" <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
and comments like that gets thrown around... tough luck(or skill or whatever) you will respawn and kill him next time.
As marine:
You hear the incomming skulks, stops building the RT and now fears the worse. One skulks pops up from the vent, you kill it, and now 3 other skulks appear at the end of the corridor. fast reload, and the skulks get closer and starts biting.. you start jumping to "evade" the bites, kills them one by one, and soon its all over... you claimed the res spot, and killed 4 skulks all by your self.
...AND MAN DOES THAT FEEL GOOD! ADRENALIN YEHA <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
thats the things i like in NS and every other games.. you prepare for the battle you KNOW your ganna loose, and soon you find youself still alive...
what happened..? you were faster than the enemy... you had more skill or luck....
when im the alien, i go ****.. hes good, oh well he wont succeed next time.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
as the marine you dont get to think, its all abour reflexes, because the game is soo fast... and only when its over you have time to think.. and man can you feel the adrenalin running through your vanes <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
you take that speed off the game you kill the fun... it might still be fun building and all, but those rushes is what im looking for...
my oppinion, i dont think ill be playing for long when the game dont have those surprises, those rushes, those damn adrenalin kicks anymore
A bit of slow-pace is good for contrast, it makes the fast bits seem even faster.
Okay... how to explain this...?
Everyone loves hiding above a doorway as a skulk, waiting for the right moment and then munching the unsuspecting marines, right? Well, what if the game was NOTHING BUT THAT. You'd face against bots who would walk under the doorway and generally behave quite like human players. If you wanted to, you could have a skulk buddy (human or bot). You'd preform drop after drop after drop, and it would be fun for a while, but it would get old pretty fast. The intensity would still be there, but you'd be numb to it, and at that point it wouldn't be fun anymore.
The lead-up (getting into the right position in front of marines, etc. etc.) and the impact on the game (hive/position saved) are major parts of the experience.
(CS analogy: ) Taking out the entire team single-handedly after your buddies all die is much, much more than simply getting 7 or 8 kills in a row without dying.
Well, that was pointless =b
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
image that...rofl so funny <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
but yea :x
I like his idea of reducing how high the Marine jumps as he jumps more frequently. Reducing speed will degrade the fun a little.
1.0 wasnt day 1 for cs! lol not by far...oh well carry on
The answer is simple:
Because it allows him to move backwards fast.
The developers slowed the backpedal speed down for a reason. It gives skulks a chance to close onto their prey quickly - and forces a Marine to actually "turn his back" if he wants to run away. The current backwards-jumping tactics (which I use too) are a way bypass this "feature".
My suggestion - make backwards-jumping the same speed as backwards running. Leave rest alone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that pretty much sums it up and why I hate it myself. As for the potential Solutions:
Kill Kenny's: Add his regardless of what else you do, its an exploit fix and a no brainer.
Remove Jumping: Almost as much as I want to agree with this, no, marines can reach the occassional odd vent duct with this.
CS style slowdown: This would be the most reasonable in my opinion. Now I know the omgyouF******noobwhineradaptyouwhinerscrubnoob!!!!!1111oneone guys hate this b/c it means 'even a newbie can hit you easily'. Ever stop to wonder if the ability to dodge bullets was intended or not. CS for the shallow former husk of what it could have been was not intended for one expert quake 3 player to burst into a room dodging bullets like he was neo from the matrix and take down the entire team of terorists. That was supposed to get you killed. NS is supposed to be more akin to a RTS where its more of a numbers battle rather than skill, one standard marine is not supposed to be able to smoke 4 skulks ambushing him from 2 directions at once. Sorry guys, go pick up your rocket launchers and head home.
squashed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it now? I'm rather confident that the devs decided that it must go out in 1.1. That it doesn't belong in the game after all. As of 1.04 it is not an exploit, so go bunny hop till you vomit.
Oh, and Mr. Waffles, you think it doesn't detract from CS's atmosphere to have people with machine guns and pistols JUMPING up and down while shooting? You think REAL special forces do that? Yeah right...
as aliens we would be whackin the marines down like mad, but there was 2 guys on the opposition clan who would bhop well - and whenver they were chased by a skulk they could run backwards, jumping, and running as fast as a skulk or faster while picking us off with the pistol. you know what? that lost us the game. - these two guys ran the whole way from marine spawn with shotguns, jumping backwards, and cained the crap out of us, then the hive while one shot respawners. I was so angry right then.
Anyway - bhopping does take atmosphere out of ns - i vote nerf!
That seems like it would take quite a bit of work to implement, and is a major change, but once it was working and the maps were changed to meet the requirement, it would solve all issues of hopping and bunnyhopping (there is a difference).
Sifo
bunnyhopping requires the player to jump the moment he touches the ground while strafing and he picks up speed because of the hl engines physics flaws...
to eliminate bunnyhopping, make it so that the player cannot jump if he has just landed, it makes sense when u think about it becos u have to bend your knees
And now for some silliness: