The "no Hive Ping Of Death".

2

Comments

  • Commander_KittensCommander_Kittens Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14255Members
    I have only one thig against the ping... it isn't powerfull enough.

    A Gorg with regen in a Dchamber castle can still sit and lame as long if not longer than before and now we all have to listen to that damn ping noise.

    The damage power needs to be cranked to the point where a Gorg with gen3 surrounded by Dchambers can't hold out. That or negate the regeneration effect when the hive falls... from the Dchambers OR the upgrades.
  • AliceyAlicey Join Date: 2003-02-17 Member: 13662Members
    Kittens, that means skulks, lerks and even gorges will just die really quickly, totally destroying the chance of a comeback. You might as well make it so destroying all hives equals a victory.
  • Larry_FlyntLarry_Flynt Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9416Members
    Another Idea:
    no ping of death

    and

    When Marines destroyed all Hives,nobody can evolve anymore...
    So if the Alien Team had no gorge at all in the end,they would be lost.
    If there was any Gorge left, the remaining skulks would need to protect him.
    If the gorge fails,game is nearly over,because no one can evolve to gorge anymore...

    How do u think about this?
  • DihardDihard Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10365Members, Constellation
    edited March 2003
    It doesn't make sense to me how a single marine should be allowed to camp when there's nothing left, while a single alien can't. If the marine has lost everything, there's NO way for him to make a comeback. However, a single alien would have at least a tiny chance to save his team (assuming gorges are allowed to build OCs without a hive, otherwise they're helpless).
  • Commander_KittensCommander_Kittens Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14255Members
    I agree to that as well... without a comm chair the Marine structures should gradually "lose influence over the the bacterium" (no comm chair means all the remaining buildings recycle themselves.) and after there are no more buildings, the remaining marines should be "Removed from the hostile environment" (they should be killed, manually returned to the ready room... etc.)

    These would me more sensical situations.... and in reply to Alicey, without a hive the alines should stand NO chance at all. And how exactly are these structures going to support themselves with no bacterium... the alien structures should begin to "deteriorate" or "degrade" more or less die slowly if there is no hive.... but quickly enough to the point where a gorg can't keep them healed and vice versa.
  • d0omied0omie Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13877Members
    I think the ping of death should be removed, we were playing a 3 vs 3 game, and us aliens had 2 onos and a fade, eating the marein base up, one jetpacker escaped and killed all 3 hives before we could catch him. The marines had no IPs or CC, and after the last hive went down we then died of the ping of death, when we could have asily eatne the marine for lunch!

    THe manual says that hivesight is removed a few hours of after the last hive is destoryed, but that thats not quick enough to be tacially usefull. It neglects to add that all the aliens suffer from inexplicable death in a minute!
  • Infected_MarineInfected_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--d0omie+Mar 5 2003, 11:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (d0omie @ Mar 5 2003, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the ping of death should be removed, we were playing a 3 vs 3 game, and us aliens had 2 onos and a fade, eating the marein base up, one jetpacker escaped and killed all 3 hives before we could catch him. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    LOL, I think that was me.

    Any way, I think the community here can agree on one thing:

    A great deal of us want the ping of death changed.

    Now we may disagree with how, and generally agree that we don't want skulks hiding indefenitly, and many don't like the marines being able to hear the ping either, and still some of us also want alien comebacks well, back, while others want a more CS like enviroment with out comebacks. Seeing as the Ping o' Death doesn't discourage a gorge surrounded by DC's, why don't we get rid of their reliance on them, if we make it so that gorges don't recieve damage, and they will be less likely to camp.
  • PetitMortePetitMorte Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7232Members
    edited March 2003
    In my humble opinion, the less Counter Strike-like this game is, the better. Please remember... This is not (really) a first-person shooter. This is a RealTime Strategy game. It just has an FPS front end.

    - I'm no fan of the Ping of Death, and would prefer to have it removed entirely.

    - If it's not removed, I would like to have the Marines NOT hear the ping!

    I've been in several games where the ping was started and then stopped and the marines started laughing over all-chat that we had another hive up, they should go and check this spot or that spot ASAP because the hive is more vulnerable now. Or they kill the "last" hive and hear no pinging and we hear "****, they got another hive" commentary.

    Evidently the ping is marine technology at work.
  • ZelZel Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12861Members
    you guys really want a comm to sensor sweep screen-by-screen over the entire map to find the one cloaked skulk? OMG, itll still take all day.
  • GuspazGuspaz Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2862Members, Constellation
    Wow, it's nearly unanimous. The Ping of Death must go.

    I am also all for GETTING RID OF IT ENTIRELY.

    However, since some marine teams are too stupid to take advantage of the previously mentioned ways to find the last skulk (Here's another: Motion Tracking, if he moves at all, you've got him), perhaps a 5-minute grace period before the ping sets in is good. Either way, the sound just has to go.
  • wlibaerswlibaers Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members
    Ping of death causes worse lameness than any it might prevent. I've been in games where one player went gorge in the most obscure places possible, and immediately started building a wall of lame there, just in case the marines would kill our hive (which, due to the resource-drain from that gorge, usually happened).

    In 1.04, I've only seen a comeback once, on ns_nothing. The whole team got killed with our hive at cargo, me and one other gorge started the two other hives fairly quickly (res was no problem, getting a defence was). We won that game because the marines did not check the other hives after the first hive was killed, and we could just sit there and wait for the hives to finish. If they had attacked, killing a single gorge at each hive wouldn't have been very difficult for them. The lack of ping would immediately alert an experienced marine to the presence of more hives building.
  • Sifo25Sifo25 Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12890Members
    Yep, I'd like to see it gone. A 5 minute rule would be great IMO.

    S
  • UnknownUnknown Join Date: 2002-06-12 Member: 759Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Mar 5 2003, 02:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Mar 5 2003, 02:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SuicideRusher+Mar 4 2003, 10:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuicideRusher @ Mar 4 2003, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> once all the defense chambers are killed, the upgrades wont work <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And this 'well duh' statement applies to this conversion... how?!?

    This doesn't affect anything anyone has said yet, hon. :-) Think first, post second. =^.^= <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yours is not either, so yea. Also, there is an edit button and private messages. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->


    Anyways, on certain maps, I can build chambers in certain spots where they will fall into the "void" of the map and cannot be attacked for the remainer of the round.

    I also agree with everyone that is saying that the "ping of death" should be taken out. Now that the "everyone f4 and end the game" thing is in the game and is a server variable, its not really needed anymore. Also, a cloaked afk skulk or whatever is not hard to find. Its called spamming scans. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Also, I agree with the fact that O chambers should be a zero hive building. It is kinda stupid just hiding as a gorge for 2 min waiting for the hive to build and praying that a single marine does not come in the hive room for the next 2 minutes. With O chambers you at least have a chance to stop 2 or 3 marines or at least slow them down.
  • Jink_JinkJink_Jink Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14348Members
    Personaly i extremly dislike the ping of death, even though it led to a few fun games. Overall it is a menace. I also remember a game back in 1.01 where we put a d chamber first, and a sensory second. We then lost our first hive and then our second.. but our gorge was cloaked in the third. He put up the hive and we eventualy won the game.

    Since most of the people who play NS now are not completly new to the game, i find that (at least on the server I play on) almost everyone knows the map realy well from both teams side and the comanders side. I personaly dont think its too hard to be able to find that last alien if the whole team scours the map, and if the commander starts pinging the crap out of the place... and thats true even if they have cloaking.

    Another reason why was that I was playing on NS_misslecommand and they managed to take out 3 of our hives with 3 jetpackers in like what felt like 20 seconds. We all heard the pinging, and they took out our gorge. Meanwile all of us who were attacking their base died while someone up there was trying to go gorge again. We put up our hives again, but it sure was a nuicence.

    The ping of death needs to go.
  • iddqdiddqd Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7596Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Madjai+Mar 4 2003, 07:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Madjai @ Mar 4 2003, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> keep the damage, get rid of the noise. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    agreed
  • CEldinCEldin Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
    I'm all for making it a server variable, that way the more expierienced servers we all frequent will have damage off and pubs that n00bs are learning on will have it on for learning.

    The difference between those wanting it in and wanting it out a play style preferance. Those that want it in are more in it for learning the game better, and getting games done with quick so you can get better strategies. The ones that want it out are those that prefer the game itself more, and the playing aspect; IE: playing the game simply for the engrossment and immersiveness.

    Or i could be totaly off base and **** a bunch of people off. Either way I did my job <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Infected_MarineInfected_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
    I think you are right on the dot stung, and this should be a variable for casual and tournament mode.

    This is possibly the best compromise suggested so far.

    PS: I think this thread hasn't been moved because a dev or two is thinking along the same lines, they may announce a change to the ping as a 1.1 feature.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    "Me Too" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Mar 5 2003, 01:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Mar 5 2003, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you guys really want a comm to sensor sweep screen-by-screen over the entire map to find the one cloaked skulk? OMG, itll still take all day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    or you could play "hide'n go seek marine with jetpack"

    -Jetpacker- "hahahahahahahahahah"
    "hahahahahahahahahahahahaaha"

    Marines F4, game is over.

    If anything, after a hive is gone, you'll hear the pinging, have the marines check every large area and boom, you'll find your lamer alien camped with a WOL in some obscure vent.

    If you destroy all of the marine stuff, and one jetpack marine is off somewhere... touching himself inappropriately, it could take up to 10 minutes for the aliens to scour a map successfully (You'd have to comb it simultaneously to prevent the marine from relocating).

    If there's anything more lame than a Jetpack marine at the end of the game, it's hearing people complain about the 1 res-point scanner sweep.

    [realization] They're upping the scanner sweep cost, my bad. [/realization]
  • kwitcherbitchinkwitcherbitchin Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11144Members
    edited March 2003
    May I suggest making it a server variable?
    Oops, looks like somebody beat me to it
  • CEldinCEldin Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Mar 6 2003, 12:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Mar 6 2003, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [realization] They're upping the scanner sweep cost, my bad. [/realization] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm sorry, but when the heck (dang lang filter) did these [sarcasm] you pooper! [/sarcasm] type expressions come to be?!

    btw sorry to go off topic...
    curiosity stung the bat
  • MaTTMaTT Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3033Members
    In my opinion they should keep the current system intact but remove the ping noises as stated. If there is a lone alien hiding in a bunch of defence chambers then its easy to find them from the healing sound they make and the fact that the commander can search for them via the scanner sweep! Imagine the scenario if the beeping sound was removed.... The marines have just killed the last hive but are not sure wether the aliens have built another one because they do not get the aural cue as to wether the aliens have a hive up or not. The marines now have 2 options.<ul><li>Scan the hives with the scanner sweep.
    <li>Send scouts to each hive (usually jetpackers) to check them out.
    </ul>Once the marines are sure the aliens have no hives then it becomes a matter of finding the last few stragglers hiding in any DC's. The marines now have another 2 options.<ul><li>Scan the whole map in searchof that DC cluster keeping those last few aliens alive.
    <li>Let the marines hunt them down.
    </ul>The final option doesnt sound as lame as most think as the sound of a healing alien is such a giveaway as to thier position and since the game and all the maps are now familiar to the majority of players it should not take longer than a few minutes to find that last alien anyhow.

    MARINE1: 'I hear the alien healing sound...'
    MARINE2: 'Where??'
    MARINE3: 'Mess hall.... I think he might be in the vent above the door!'
    COMM: 'Okay get a jetpacker in there'

    It would be so much more fun IMO....
  • RionRion Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7752Members
    I find it's only use was when the cloaking bug was still in. And I believe that bug was fixed in 1.01

    For those that don't know.. if an alien was cloaked even while the last SC was taken out, he'd remain cloaked.
  • heathenSlayerheathenSlayer Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6088Members
    Take it out, there are already a bunch of good posts explaining why.

    Oh, if you want to live forever with "no" d chambers, build d chambers in a vent and they sink through the floor into oblivion and become permanent. Then just upgrade to regen and find a fun place to sit.
  • StoneburgStoneburg Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Mar 5 2003, 02:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Mar 5 2003, 02:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd have to agree with Stonehand.
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I've scoured this thread but have still be unable to find this "Stonehand" person.. isn't he the bad-guy in "Mio, My Son" by Astrid Lindgren?


    Anyway...

    There are a few people who want to keep the POD but I don't think they have read the other posts since they quote reasons that hav e already been refuted.

    Now if someone still wants to keep it, it should be easy to make it a server side variable. This would satisfy everyone (well.. probably not since people playing on the same server may want different things), so that would work too. Still, I see no reason to keep it, none has been presented in this thread at least.
  • TeoHTeoH Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11640Members
    The 'Ping of Death' is simply a public server convention, to quickly finish games that should already be over. It is disabled in tournement mode.

    The reasoning behind it is quite simple: on a public server you make the (absolutely correct) assumption that people are going to act like ****. The alien team has the ability to hide or reach locations that are impossible for basic marines to reach, the ping is designed to avoid the 1 skulk hiding in a vent somewhere forcing marines to tech JPs in order to kill him. Or (Even worse) the lerk that likes to float under the walkway on bast that crosses a func_kill. Of course, the system is flawed because regeneration now outperforms the ping of death.

    This sort of behaviour is not a problem in clan matches. So there is no ping of death, to ensure teams cannot win a game with last resort kamakazi attacks on a hive/CC. When you're down to the last hive, with skulks and no res, and a team of HAs about to walk in and weld you to death, you can't win the game with 1 last lucky kamakazi kill on the CC. In the same way a jetpacker whose base is about to be ripped up by fades, can't win a game by taking out both hives (In a clan match).

    On a public server, the above situations are quite rare in comparison to the everyday occurance of 1 last guy hiding somewhere, while his team waits in the ready room. And because whichever team wins is not as important in a public server, it is justifiable to use a ping of death style feature to end games quickly. The problem with the ping of death is not its concept, its the fact that it doesn't do what it is intended to do.

    The reason the ping of death was imposed on aliens, and not on marines was presumably because the basic starting alien is capable of going anywhere a marine can go, so there is no issue with having to tech up just to be able to kill someone.

    Try not to think of the ping as a gameplay feature, it's more of an admin tool for use on public servers. If you were playing a serious game (Tournement mode) you'd have it disabled anyway. But it probably needs some alteration in light of the new and improved regen.
  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Members, Constellation
    edited March 2003
    I understand the rationale behind the ping of death. I don't like it but accept it. However I think it needs to both kill off DCs and outpace regen because otherwise its not fulfilling its intended effect.
  • EdcrabEdcrab Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4324Members
    Granted it's removed for tournament games- but my clan is more decorative than organised and thus we are little more than a group of people that play together on pubs with the same tag.
    I'd be happy to see the back of any form of marine or alien PoD... if not, a great big <b>yes</b> to having it as a server variable. Preffably off by default, heh...
  • spai_duhzspai_duhz Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11404Members
    edited March 2003
    Hmm...

    I am guessing this.

    The aliens are dying because since hives are down, the bacta-nano gridlock is won by the nanites, and the nanites start attacking the aliens (a little lame, but hell, it sure at least explains for those who ask "WHY?"

    If that’s the reason, than there will be a viable reason to make marines suffer the so-called ping-of-death (hereby known as POD)

    As I said above, aliens suffer the POD because there is no more hives to cause bacta-nano gridlock. Now let’s just say that the command center activates the nanites in the map.

    For those who cant fathom what I’m trying to suggest...

    After the command console goes down, nanites deactivate. Bacterium starts attacking the marines and THEY suffer the POD.

    Though it will be unfair since there is NO CHANCE whatsoever of the marines making a comeback.


    ~edited with spellcheck for the grammer nazis.

    and yeah, stated before. sorreh.
  • Diablo_fxDiablo_fx Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
    edited March 2003
    I agree it should be removed, both damage and sound.

    I would be unfiar if marines would get "ping of death" if they had no CC or IPs??? it's lame cmon get rid of it.
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