I'm afraid I signed up before this post so I'm not in the army but anyway <a href='http://www.kingsofchaos.com/page.php?id=285015' target='_blank'>here's my link.</a> I've got 111 dwarfs and over 1500 attack turns saved up. I'm now going on an attacking rampage.........
I will teach you to kill quickly, efficiently, and indiscriminantly. You will learn to destroy the enemy until you are told to stop and then continue anyway. I will make you a better soldier than you thought you could ever be. You will reach you're full potential as a killing machine. Saddle up Marines, Hooya!
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited April 2003
Spy Level increases the efficiency (and therefore life-expectancy) of your Spies. Which is a good thing, as you can only send 10 at a time on any given mission.
Spies at home increase your security rating, the more of them there are. Er.. your security rating is what you use to defend against being spied upon, and to kill enemy spies if they try to peek at you.
Spying on someone shows you: Their attack/defense bonus levels. Their purchased equipment. The number of soldiers trained for Attack/Defense, as well as untrained.. as well as percentages of the army that each category comprises. Believe it shows you the amount of money they have, too.
So, say there's a guy. He's sitting there with 400K in the bank. Human. Camp. No Siege weapon upgrades. You can't understand why, but he's just chillin', and no one ever hits him. Spy, and you'll see that his Defense bonus is likely up in the 50,000+ range. Similarly, Spy before you attack someone. You'll be able to get a rough idea of whether or not you can take them, or if you should save your attacks for an easier mark.
I'm doing the math, and noticing that, at least at first, seige upgrades are far more cost effective than any of the smaller upgrades, and they never get destroyed and don't count towards your total money when enemies take a percentage of your money.
The only downside I'm seeing to Seige is that you have to buy it in one lump sum, meaning saving up money without getting hit during that save... I see now why saving up a whole mess of attacks for one go is important.
I think I had about 90-100,000 saved up at the time, was saving up attack turns, but this guy: <a href='http://www.kingsofchaos.com/viewprofile.php?id=422254' target='_blank'>http://www.kingsofchaos.com/viewprofile.php?id=422254</a> took 86,000 off me somehow. Against guys with 200,000 I only get just above 60,000. Ah well, do me a favor and hurt him, a lot.
And please don't click my link anymore, too much clicking made me grow too quickly
edit: take a look at this guy: <a href='http://www.kingsofchaos.com/viewprofile.php?id=387065' target='_blank'>http://www.kingsofchaos.com/viewprofile.php?id=387065</a> his wealth seems a bit low, anyone figure we might have a cheater around, or is this just a bug you think?
<!--QuoteBegin--Fieari+Apr 11 2003, 10:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Apr 11 2003, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm doing the math, and noticing that, at least at first, seige upgrades are far more cost effective than any of the smaller upgrades, and they never get destroyed and don't count towards your total money when enemies take a percentage of your money.
The only downside I'm seeing to Seige is that you have to buy it in one lump sum, meaning saving up money without getting hit during that save... I see now why saving up a whole mess of attacks for one go is important. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The defence seige is probably the best one to get first because it stops people sending spies at you (I've just lost 2 really good lvl5 spies by trying to get them into a walled place). Once you have a defence seige up, you can concentrate on training your troops in offence, get more cash and keep upgrading seiges.
<!--QuoteBegin--Error404:+Apr 12 2003, 12:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Error404: @ Apr 12 2003, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Fieari+Apr 11 2003, 10:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Apr 11 2003, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm doing the math, and noticing that, at least at first, seige upgrades are far more cost effective than any of the smaller upgrades, and they never get destroyed and don't count towards your total money when enemies take a percentage of your money.
The only downside I'm seeing to Seige is that you have to buy it in one lump sum, meaning saving up money without getting hit during that save... I see now why saving up a whole mess of attacks for one go is important. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The defence seige is probably the best one to get first because it stops people sending spies at you (I've just lost 2 really good lvl5 spies by trying to get them into a walled place). Once you have a defence seige up, you can concentrate on training your troops in offence, get more cash and keep upgrading seiges. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And defence siege upgrades increase your unit production.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
No, about the negative-cash guy. I'd thought the same thing, but it seems that if you attack someone when they have no money, you break some of their gear (I've never seen it happen after hitting a 0gp enemy with three level 15 attacks, spying between each one).
I'm guessing that if all your non-Siege upgrades are broken in that manner, you start going into negative money. Or, yeah.. it could just be someone exploiting to spend more cash than they have on-hand somehow... most of the ones I see in negatives have either Fortresses or Strongholds.
As a related note, if anyone is attacked by someone in the 150-160 to 600 range, let me know. If they don't have any other D upgrades (chainmail and the like) I can usually smack 'em back. Maybe I should start going after dramatically larger armies than mine, get it to the point where they can't attack me back 'cuz I'm less than half their size. >:)
Okay. I have not successfully attacked anyone yet (a couple of failures, but now I see I'd been attacking walled towns and such, which is dumb) so I don't know... if I attack a camp with 15 attacks and they have around $20k... how much should I be expecting assuming I succeede?
I ask because I want to know how many attack turns I should stockpile in order to go directly for the siege upgrade.
If you're still starting out, only attack Camps and <i>maybe</i> Stockades. Walled Towns are the 3rd defensive upgrade, so they'll be next to impossible to crack with a small army.
If your army has a good offensive bonus, then go for armies a few levels higher than yours. If your offensive bonus is weak, then attack those weaker than you.
No, what I meant was "How many attack turns must I save up in order to amass $60,000 within a few minutes so other people won't take my money from me before I can upgrade seige?
<!--QuoteBegin--Fieari+Apr 12 2003, 07:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Apr 12 2003, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, what I meant was "How many attack turns must I save up in order to amass $60,000 within a few minutes so other people won't take my money from me before I can upgrade seige? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Depends how big you are and what kind of targets you are attacking, but it think 60 would be more than enough.
Bloody! 60 attacks only got me $20,000! I'm at $27,000 (with my own personal earnings) which means that I'm a ripe duck for people looking for attacks unless I spend it on cheaper stuff....
$3,000 more and I'm dumping it straight into attack seige equipment if I'm not attacked by some miracle, and then I'll have the power to attack wealthier targets and 60 will almost certainly be enough attacks then.
Negative cash happens when some one gets attacked by two people at once when its a pretty laggy day. Say some one has 400k. Two people attack him each stealling 250k. Becuase of lag he now has -100k. I think it can also happen if he buys something and gets attacked at the same time on a real laggy day.
<!--QuoteBegin--Fieari+Apr 12 2003, 08:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Apr 12 2003, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bloody! 60 attacks only got me $20,000! I'm at $27,000 (with my own personal earnings) which means that I'm a ripe duck for people looking for attacks unless I spend it on cheaper stuff....
$3,000 more and I'm dumping it straight into attack seige equipment if I'm not attacked by some miracle, and then I'll have the power to attack wealthier targets and 60 will almost certainly be enough attacks then. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 27000$ does not make you a ripe duck, 50000 does, but now that I'm at about 50 power, 300000$ is a ripe duck.
When you're at power 11, I see almost no one with money above 20,000, and they have defenses. However, all ended well, got me some long shields, and I'm going to save up for the fortifications next. I guess it'll be a day or two before I'll have the needed attacks.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
how many soldiers should I have before considering upgrading my fortification? And how many attack turns should I save up for such a massive undertaking?
Usually you won't have any problems with armies <15, unless you're human or really unlucky. When I had about 15 guys, any money I had I put towards spies and training attack duty soldiers (i'm dwarves). Spending your money quickly is probably the best defense, instead of spending it on training defense duty soldiers (which actually make you weaker when you attack other armies).
Focus on saving up attack turns, as you spend your money on spies and spy levels. Don't bother saving up for weapons. Spend on training offense soldiers, you don't need defense if you've got nothing to steal.
When you get alot of attack turns, send your spies to someone with a low level fortification, and calculate if you are more powerful (a trained attack duty soldier = 2.5 all purpose soldiers)
If for some reason you are just short of getting your defense seige, and fear retaliation, convert half of your soldiers to defense soldiers. It works out cheaper than getting them defense weapons. You can convert them back to all-purpose soldiers for free, when you decide to attack someone.
Well after being around this forum for a while i noticed that ALOT of threads are just repeats of other threads...a simple solution would be to put all of the frequently asked questions into a FAQ type post....so i'm taking the initiative and doing such.
Q1 MaDD, your so cool, can you explain spies to me?
MaDD: Spies allow you to see ALL of your opponents stats. You can send between 1 and 10 spies at a time and their efficiency is based on your spy level. The efficiency ranges from approximately 0-15x (SpyxSpy lvl) The security of your opponent is based on : Siege Defense+(Spy * Spy lvl)+Soldiers on Defense (i don't know the siege defense numbers except stronghold=100
Q2 MaDD, you know so much, why did the knife prices change!?
MaDD: Knives were ridiculously cheap compared to other offense items. so much so that no one would buy anything except knives. the new price is much more fair.
Q3 MaDD, i know you saved 200 turns waiting for cheap slings and came home from work to find them at a set price, why don't the prices fluxuate anymore?
MaDD: Because alot of ppl complaned about it being unfair. My personal opinions aside...it was done VERY ineficiently as offense is currently 180k for 750 and defense is 225k for 750.
Q4 MaDD, How do you guys on the front page get so many clicks? Cuz you guys rock!
MaDD: There's lots of LEGIT ways to get large armies: an easy one is join an alliance, put your link in your aim profile or other messenger profiles, put your link on your website, ETC.
Q5 MaDD your large army must use unit production...how does it work?
Unit production will give you a number of soldiers equal to the level you have it at at 12PM EST everyday. It was at one point bugged and non-functional but it now works as normal. unit production is also based on def fortifications. The current cap (wich may no longer be bugged but was previously) was 22 (if the bug was fixed its 25).
Q6 Hay MaDD You seem to know everything about ppls armies...who has the most attack and defense right now?
MaDD: #1 attacker is Loviaroth with over 600k Attack i haven't asked recently so don't know the exact number #1 defense i will leave nameless for his own safetly but i will tell you he has about 310k defense last time i checked. (although sagus may be catching up i haven't checked on him recently either~)
Q7 MaDD whats up with the negative gold? I've seen you stuck at like -700ish and alot of other players like that to!
MaDD: Negative gold is an annoying and aggrivating occurance. Most of the time its cuz 2 ppl attacked you at the same time and both were given your money. But it can also happen if you spend your money and are attacked simultaniously. To my experience it can only happen during massive lag. So if you look at your attack log and you see 2 ppl took the same amount of gold from you...thats probably what put you into the negatives.
Q8 MaDD The game says if you run out of gold you'll slowly start to break ppls weapons have you ever done this? or even heard of it really happening?
MaDD: To put it simply...No...possibly a bug but i have never had my weapons broken broken a weapon or even heard of weapons breaking period...
Q9 Hay MaDD Do you know what these RPG stats do? Will having them all at 0/XXX like yours make us cool?
MaDD: Basically this forum has a battle arena....first you activate your stats (theres a link on the main page) from there you'd need to go to the battle forum as the 'forum battles' are not something I participate in. Having them drained like mine means either you got jacked in a 'battle' or you don't meet different post requirements of the forum. theres a refill thread but i'm pretty sure you can only get filled once so use it wisely...
Q10 MaDD I'm never making any money....you've got stats that must have taken MADD bank how'd you get it? (and why defense is pointless)
MaDD: Well Lovi did the favor of answering this question and a few others but i already answered before i saw his post so here's his answer Lovi: ""This only applies to the current way the game is set up... but basically its much easier to build up offense than it is defense... This was true even before the current prices were set in stone in the armory. The key to keeping one's money is pretty obvious, but many don't realize it... the KEY is, NOT to have any money in the first place... I mean if u spend all your money, then you'll never give anyone a chance to take it from you...
which brings me to the next part of this, which is "how do I buy the more expensive stuff like battering rams, dynamite, fortress, and strongholds?"
the key to working your way through the masses and chaos of the lower lvls of koc... is to lay low... build up a decent amount of cheap offense... to the point where you can take out ppl with a lot of equipment.... once you can get relatively good gold reaps from ppl u commonly harvest, then start saving for a few turns... the idea is you want to get just enough gold so that when you attack some ppl, u'll make up the rest of the money u need... then immediately spend that on whatever u were trying to buy. This will once again drop u to near 0 gold and keep u from standing out amongst the masses...
defense is only pointless because no matter how high your defense is, someone will ALWAYS be stronger and strong enough to take your gold... so its foolish to think u can hold onto your gold forever... the KEY is to just spend it when u have it, and not to flaunt it... This would hold true even if defense was cheaper... it wouldn't matter... someone would ALWAYS best your defense, not matter how high you made it...
as for rumors and speculation about gold being related to how much their defense is, that's bogus. As are allegations about how "you get more gold if the dmg and counter dmg are relatively close." I can assure u from months of playing and testing, that both of those are untrue...
gold pillaged has only to relate to a person's overall "value." Meaning the sum total of ALL their equipment... what this means is that u'd get the same amount of gold from someone with 1 chainmail and 30,000 knives, as u would with someone with 30,000 chainmails and 1 knife. .... after a certain amount of "value" u will ALWAYS take their full amount of gold with one attack turn.
plain and simple.""
Q11 MaDD I've seen you guys hit for MASSIVE damage...do you know how the damage system works? how do specialized troops factor in?
MaDD: Well i don't know the exact formula. But basically there is a range that is theoretically something long the lines of "1/3Troops*Attack Bonus." or something like that. however the added a factor that makes it range so you can do either ALOT more damage or ALOT less damage so there will be a fair range.
As far as specialized troops go...just think of them as the equivellant of 2.5 troops of their type since they are 250% more effective. so if you have 10 attack troops and 5 defense troops and no all purpose, you have 25 troops when attacking and 12.5 when defending.
Q12 MaDD you've got one damn big commander i was wondering if he helps you defend at all.
MaDD: To put it simply...not in the least. I think ages ago when my army was like 100ish maybe he helped a bit but these days i've seen no noticable bonus from him.
Q13 MaDD age 1 has been going on for a long time...according to the poll shouldn't it have theoretically ended by now?
MaDD: In theory, yes...But i'm sure the admins of KoC have other things to do (i know i had other things to do in my junior year of high school...not that i did them, but thats another story :-P). As NMeyer posted they're making changes so perhaps their taking their time until these new changes are tested. They will let us know through the announcements forum when age 1 will end and when age 2 will begin like always.
Q14 MaDD I can't seem to figure out this casualty system, do you understand it?
MaDD: I understand some parts of it. I don't know exactly what formula is used to run casualties but this is what I do know:1 the more turns you use the more casualties you'll sustain...think of it as something like "a charge" vs. "sieging" the harder you push the more troops will die. 2 All purpose troops will always die first. i do not have a reason for this but its true all purpose will die first 100% of the time. only once all of your all purpose troops are gone can you start to lose specialized troops. 3 Mercs always die first. Even if you bought attack mercs and you lose all purpose soldiers....they will still be counted as mercenaries and your merc % will be dropped. therefore its a good idea to keep up a high merc% that way you never lose any direct clicks as casualties.
Q15 MaDD theres alot of talk about the age ending...what happens when the age ends?
MaDD: Basically everything is reset weapons siege spies ect. you keep your officers (and they keep theirs). and if its the same as the start of age1 you will get troops=officers and 1/2 officers officers, you will also get 50,000 gold to start with.
Q16 MaDD what determines your gold per turn?
MaDD: # of troops. 12 per troop or 15 per troop for humans.
EDIT: Added Q7-Q9 More to come if i think of it. Forgot to add Q10 so i just ganked lovi's answer :-P Added Q11 yes lovi I read your reply but i dont think this post can fit anymore of your 'essay's' so I just simplified it w/ my own version. Added Q12-Q13(uh-oh unlucky X_X) nothin else new...been noticing that since i post during the night (usually 1AM-5AM)my spelling and grammer is atrocious...but to be honest i'm way to lazy to care ^^;;~ Added Q14-16
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Error404:+Apr 13 2003, 12:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Error404: @ Apr 13 2003, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The following is cut & paste from the Kings of Chaos forums, I think it answers many questions</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It sure does, but none of mine <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
/me buys his fortress and gets ready to go for the ladders <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Most of the ppl I attack alllll have large amounts of money, but only a camp to defend themselves. I have a walled town now, and Im building up for a fortress. The best offense is a good defense.
<!--QuoteBegin--Burr+Apr 13 2003, 11:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Burr @ Apr 13 2003, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have a walled town now, and Im building up for a fortress. The best offense is a good defense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Until I hit 50 power (approx), I never really even focused on any defenses. The only defensive upgrade I'd buy was the camp upgrades, and that was only so I could continue increasing my unit production. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
appearantly defenses are completely useless as they are now since they are too expensive (just recaping what I read on their forums). doesn't bother me though ...I definitely won't make it anywhere near to the top of the ladder anyway so I'm just going to have some fun wasting money on defenses, doing justice to my swiss nationality <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
btw, how do you calculate your defensive strength? training soldiers for defense makes them 250% more efefctive in that area ...doesn't show on the defensive bonus though. so wherez da stats??
I have another question... it's been mentioned that defensive seige upgrades increase unit production. However, I see two prices for this... on the main "Camp" page, it says to upgrade unit prouction for $50,000
On the armory page, it says $65,000 (but only mentions the defensive capabilities of this)
Does the $65,000 increase unit production? Does the $50,000 increase defensive capabilities?
<!--QuoteBegin--Fieari+Apr 14 2003, 11:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Apr 14 2003, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have another question... it's been mentioned that defensive seige upgrades increase unit production. However, I see two prices for this... on the main "Camp" page, it says to upgrade unit prouction for $50,000
On the armory page, it says $65,000 (but only mentions the defensive capabilities of this)
Does the $65,000 increase unit production? Does the $50,000 increase defensive capabilities? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When you upgrade your defensive siege capability, you get one extra unit per day from the upgrade as well. For example, if your unit production is 4 and you upgrade your defensive siege, you'll have a stronger defense bonus plus a unit production of 5.
The "increase unit production for $50,000" link on the front page simply adds even more. However, there's a limit of "new units per day" that you can have with each of the first four defensive upgrades. Once you hit this limit, you'll need to upgrade to the next highest defensive upgrade before you can increase your unit production any more.
I wonder if it's actually worth continuiing playing this game, it seems most of the people are only attacking what appear to be 'abandoned' IDs. It's obvious that there are too many unupgraded armies, still with no fortifications or weapons. It just seems everyone is hoarding for the sake of hoarding.
I think I will up the stakes and attack someone who has actually spent money. I don't care if I lose soldiers because it means I'll be playing lower level armies with my high seiges... EASY.
My suspicion is that in the lower power levels there wil be considerably more abandoned IDs that you can harvest from, but as you go up in power more, you'll find more and more active accounts. This is just natural.
Solution? Raise your own power level so you can have more interaction with people that matter.
In that case I'm quite happy to remain in the lower power levels so I can harvest the abandoned IDs and get really powerful really quickly without risk of attack.
Comments
I've got 111 dwarfs and over 1500 attack turns saved up. I'm now going on an attacking rampage.........
Move to your waypoint....
<a href='http://www.kingsofchaos.com/page.php?id=569232' target='_blank'>http://www.kingsofchaos.com/page.php?id=569232</a>
Spies at home increase your security rating, the more of them there are. Er.. your security rating is what you use to defend against being spied upon, and to kill enemy spies if they try to peek at you.
Spying on someone shows you:
Their attack/defense bonus levels.
Their purchased equipment.
The number of soldiers trained for Attack/Defense, as well as untrained.. as well as percentages of the army that each category comprises.
Believe it shows you the amount of money they have, too.
So, say there's a guy. He's sitting there with 400K in the bank. Human. Camp. No Siege weapon upgrades. You can't understand why, but he's just chillin', and no one ever hits him. Spy, and you'll see that his Defense bonus is likely up in the 50,000+ range.
Similarly, Spy before you attack someone. You'll be able to get a rough idea of whether or not you can take them, or if you should save your attacks for an easier mark.
The only downside I'm seeing to Seige is that you have to buy it in one lump sum, meaning saving up money without getting hit during that save... I see now why saving up a whole mess of attacks for one go is important.
took 86,000 off me somehow. Against guys with 200,000 I only get just above 60,000. Ah well, do me a favor and hurt him, a lot.
And please don't click my link anymore, too much clicking made me grow too quickly
edit: take a look at this guy: <a href='http://www.kingsofchaos.com/viewprofile.php?id=387065' target='_blank'>http://www.kingsofchaos.com/viewprofile.php?id=387065</a>
his wealth seems a bit low, anyone figure we might have a cheater around, or is this just a bug you think?
The only downside I'm seeing to Seige is that you have to buy it in one lump sum, meaning saving up money without getting hit during that save... I see now why saving up a whole mess of attacks for one go is important. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The defence seige is probably the best one to get first because it stops people sending spies at you (I've just lost 2 really good lvl5 spies by trying to get them into a walled place). Once you have a defence seige up, you can concentrate on training your troops in offence, get more cash and keep upgrading seiges.
The only downside I'm seeing to Seige is that you have to buy it in one lump sum, meaning saving up money without getting hit during that save... I see now why saving up a whole mess of attacks for one go is important. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The defence seige is probably the best one to get first because it stops people sending spies at you (I've just lost 2 really good lvl5 spies by trying to get them into a walled place). Once you have a defence seige up, you can concentrate on training your troops in offence, get more cash and keep upgrading seiges. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And defence siege upgrades increase your unit production.
I'm guessing that if all your non-Siege upgrades are broken in that manner, you start going into negative money. Or, yeah.. it could just be someone exploiting to spend more cash than they have on-hand somehow... most of the ones I see in negatives have either Fortresses or Strongholds.
As a related note, if anyone is attacked by someone in the 150-160 to 600 range, let me know. If they don't have any other D upgrades (chainmail and the like) I can usually smack 'em back. Maybe I should start going after dramatically larger armies than mine, get it to the point where they can't attack me back 'cuz I'm less than half their size. >:)
I ask because I want to know how many attack turns I should stockpile in order to go directly for the siege upgrade.
If your army has a good offensive bonus, then go for armies a few levels higher than yours. If your offensive bonus is weak, then attack those weaker than you.
Depends how big you are and what kind of targets you are attacking, but it think 60 would be more than enough.
$3,000 more and I'm dumping it straight into attack seige equipment if I'm not attacked by some miracle, and then I'll have the power to attack wealthier targets and 60 will almost certainly be enough attacks then.
$3,000 more and I'm dumping it straight into attack seige equipment if I'm not attacked by some miracle, and then I'll have the power to attack wealthier targets and 60 will almost certainly be enough attacks then. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
27000$ does not make you a ripe duck, 50000 does, but now that I'm at about 50 power, 300000$ is a ripe duck.
Focus on saving up attack turns, as you spend your money on spies and spy levels. Don't bother saving up for weapons. Spend on training offense soldiers, you don't need defense if you've got nothing to steal.
When you get alot of attack turns, send your spies to someone with a low level fortification, and calculate if you are more powerful (a trained attack duty soldier = 2.5 all purpose soldiers)
If for some reason you are just short of getting your defense seige, and fear retaliation, convert half of your soldiers to defense soldiers. It works out cheaper than getting them defense weapons. You can convert them back to all-purpose soldiers for free, when you decide to attack someone.
---------------------------------------------snip--------------------------------------------------------
Well after being around this forum for a while i noticed that ALOT of threads are just repeats of other threads...a simple solution would be to put all of the frequently asked questions into a FAQ type post....so i'm taking the initiative and doing such.
Q1 MaDD, your so cool, can you explain spies to me?
MaDD: Spies allow you to see ALL of your opponents stats.
You can send between 1 and 10 spies at a time and their efficiency is based on your spy level. The efficiency ranges from approximately 0-15x (SpyxSpy lvl)
The security of your opponent is based on : Siege Defense+(Spy * Spy lvl)+Soldiers on Defense (i don't know the siege defense numbers except stronghold=100
Q2 MaDD, you know so much, why did the knife prices change!?
MaDD: Knives were ridiculously cheap compared to other offense items. so much so that no one would buy anything except knives. the new price is much more fair.
Q3 MaDD, i know you saved 200 turns waiting for cheap slings and came home from work to find them at a set price, why don't the prices fluxuate anymore?
MaDD: Because alot of ppl complaned about it being unfair. My personal opinions aside...it was done VERY ineficiently as offense is currently 180k for 750 and defense is 225k for 750.
Q4 MaDD, How do you guys on the front page get so many clicks? Cuz you guys rock!
MaDD: There's lots of LEGIT ways to get large armies: an easy one is join an alliance, put your link in your aim profile or other messenger profiles, put your link on your website, ETC.
Q5 MaDD your large army must use unit production...how does it work?
Unit production will give you a number of soldiers equal to the level you have it at at 12PM EST everyday. It was at one point bugged and non-functional but it now works as normal. unit production is also based on def fortifications. The current cap (wich may no longer be bugged but was previously) was 22 (if the bug was fixed its 25).
Q6 Hay MaDD You seem to know everything about ppls armies...who has the most attack and defense right now?
MaDD: #1 attacker is Loviaroth with over 600k Attack i haven't asked recently so don't know the exact number #1 defense i will leave nameless for his own safetly but i will tell you he has about 310k defense last time i checked. (although sagus may be catching up i haven't checked on him recently either~)
Q7 MaDD whats up with the negative gold? I've seen you stuck at like -700ish and alot of other players like that to!
MaDD: Negative gold is an annoying and aggrivating occurance. Most of the time its cuz 2 ppl attacked you at the same time and both were given your money. But it can also happen if you spend your money and are attacked simultaniously. To my experience it can only happen during massive lag. So if you look at your attack log and you see 2 ppl took the same amount of gold from you...thats probably what put you into the negatives.
Q8 MaDD The game says if you run out of gold you'll slowly start to break ppls weapons have you ever done this? or even heard of it really happening?
MaDD: To put it simply...No...possibly a bug but i have never had my weapons broken broken a weapon or even heard of weapons breaking period...
Q9 Hay MaDD Do you know what these RPG stats do? Will having them all at 0/XXX like yours make us cool?
MaDD: Basically this forum has a battle arena....first you activate your stats (theres a link on the main page) from there you'd need to go to the battle forum as the 'forum battles' are not something I participate in. Having them drained like mine means either you got jacked in a 'battle' or you don't meet different post requirements of the forum. theres a refill thread but i'm pretty sure you can only get filled once so use it wisely...
Q10 MaDD I'm never making any money....you've got stats that must have taken MADD bank how'd you get it? (and why defense is pointless)
MaDD: Well Lovi did the favor of answering this question and a few others but i already answered before i saw his post so here's his answer
Lovi: ""This only applies to the current way the game is set up... but basically its much easier to build up offense than it is defense... This was true even before the current prices were set in stone in the armory. The key to keeping one's money is pretty obvious, but many don't realize it... the KEY is, NOT to have any money in the first place... I mean if u spend all your money, then you'll never give anyone a chance to take it from you...
which brings me to the next part of this, which is "how do I buy the more expensive stuff like battering rams, dynamite, fortress, and strongholds?"
the key to working your way through the masses and chaos of the lower lvls of koc... is to lay low... build up a decent amount of cheap offense... to the point where you can take out ppl with a lot of equipment.... once you can get relatively good gold reaps from ppl u commonly harvest, then start saving for a few turns... the idea is you want to get just enough gold so that when you attack some ppl, u'll make up the rest of the money u need... then immediately spend that on whatever u were trying to buy. This will once again drop u to near 0 gold and keep u from standing out amongst the masses...
defense is only pointless because no matter how high your defense is, someone will ALWAYS be stronger and strong enough to take your gold... so its foolish to think u can hold onto your gold forever... the KEY is to just spend it when u have it, and not to flaunt it... This would hold true even if defense was cheaper... it wouldn't matter... someone would ALWAYS best your defense, not matter how high you made it...
as for rumors and speculation about gold being related to how much their defense is, that's bogus. As are allegations about how "you get more gold if the dmg and counter dmg are relatively close." I can assure u from months of playing and testing, that both of those are untrue...
gold pillaged has only to relate to a person's overall "value." Meaning the sum total of ALL their equipment... what this means is that u'd get the same amount of gold from someone with 1 chainmail and 30,000 knives, as u would with someone with 30,000 chainmails and 1 knife. .... after a certain amount of "value" u will ALWAYS take their full amount of gold with one attack turn.
plain and simple.""
Q11 MaDD I've seen you guys hit for MASSIVE damage...do you know how the damage system works? how do specialized troops factor in?
MaDD: Well i don't know the exact formula. But basically there is a range that is theoretically something long the lines of "1/3Troops*Attack Bonus." or something like that. however the added a factor that makes it range so you can do either ALOT more damage or ALOT less damage so there will be a fair range.
As far as specialized troops go...just think of them as the equivellant of 2.5 troops of their type since they are 250% more effective. so if you have 10 attack troops and 5 defense troops and no all purpose, you have 25 troops when attacking and 12.5 when defending.
Q12 MaDD you've got one damn big commander i was wondering if he helps you defend at all.
MaDD: To put it simply...not in the least. I think ages ago when my army was like 100ish maybe he helped a bit but these days i've seen no noticable bonus from him.
Q13 MaDD age 1 has been going on for a long time...according to the poll shouldn't it have theoretically ended by now?
MaDD: In theory, yes...But i'm sure the admins of KoC have other things to do (i know i had other things to do in my junior year of high school...not that i did them, but thats another story :-P). As NMeyer posted they're making changes so perhaps their taking their time until these new changes are tested. They will let us know through the announcements forum when age 1 will end and when age 2 will begin like always.
Q14 MaDD I can't seem to figure out this casualty system, do you understand it?
MaDD: I understand some parts of it. I don't know exactly what formula is used to run casualties but this is what I do know:1 the more turns you use the more casualties you'll sustain...think of it as something like "a charge" vs. "sieging" the harder you push the more troops will die. 2 All purpose troops will always die first. i do not have a reason for this but its true all purpose will die first 100% of the time. only once all of your all purpose troops are gone can you start to lose specialized troops. 3 Mercs always die first. Even if you bought attack mercs and you lose all purpose soldiers....they will still be counted as mercenaries and your merc % will be dropped. therefore its a good idea to keep up a high merc% that way you never lose any direct clicks as casualties.
Q15 MaDD theres alot of talk about the age ending...what happens when the age ends?
MaDD: Basically everything is reset weapons siege spies ect. you keep your officers (and they keep theirs). and if its the same as the start of age1 you will get troops=officers and 1/2 officers officers, you will also get 50,000 gold to start with.
Q16 MaDD what determines your gold per turn?
MaDD: # of troops. 12 per troop or 15 per troop for humans.
EDIT:
Added Q7-Q9 More to come if i think of it.
Forgot to add Q10 so i just ganked lovi's answer :-P
Added Q11 yes lovi I read your reply but i dont think this post can fit anymore of your 'essay's' so I just simplified it w/ my own version.
Added Q12-Q13(uh-oh unlucky X_X) nothin else new...been noticing that since i post during the night (usually 1AM-5AM)my spelling and grammer is atrocious...but to be honest i'm way to lazy to care ^^;;~
Added Q14-16
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{OTC}`MaDD`[cL] reprasant~!!
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It sure does, but none of mine <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
(/stock up on steed instead of dynamite)
Until I hit 50 power (approx), I never really even focused on any defenses. The only defensive upgrade I'd buy was the camp upgrades, and that was only so I could continue increasing my unit production. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
doesn't bother me though ...I definitely won't make it anywhere near to the top of the ladder anyway so I'm just going to have some fun wasting money on defenses, doing justice to my swiss nationality <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
btw, how do you calculate your defensive strength? training soldiers for defense makes them 250% more efefctive in that area ...doesn't show on the defensive bonus though. so wherez da stats??
On the armory page, it says $65,000 (but only mentions the defensive capabilities of this)
Does the $65,000 increase unit production? Does the $50,000 increase defensive capabilities?
On the armory page, it says $65,000 (but only mentions the defensive capabilities of this)
Does the $65,000 increase unit production? Does the $50,000 increase defensive capabilities? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you upgrade your defensive siege capability, you get one extra unit per day from the upgrade as well. For example, if your unit production is 4 and you upgrade your defensive siege, you'll have a stronger defense bonus plus a unit production of 5.
The "increase unit production for $50,000" link on the front page simply adds even more. However, there's a limit of "new units per day" that you can have with each of the first four defensive upgrades. Once you hit this limit, you'll need to upgrade to the next highest defensive upgrade before you can increase your unit production any more.
I think I will up the stakes and attack someone who has actually spent money. I don't care if I lose soldiers because it means I'll be playing lower level armies with my high seiges... EASY.
Time to make someone's life hell!!!
Solution? Raise your own power level so you can have more interaction with people that matter.
(Personal Update: Power 18, Battering Ram, Stockade, 1 Defence Merc, 1 Attack Merc. Nothing else)