the way i see it , to fit the SC units into NS, it's not about the SIZE. It's about the ROLE of the unit in combat situation. if you read all teh posts, majority of the ppl here only look into the size of the unit instead of the role when they replace the default NS unit with SC unit. in my opinion, in terms of gameplay and game universe consistency, we shouldn't look too much into the size of the units. in this case, most ppl think ghost should be teh LA, and marines should be the HA. But think about it, in starcraft, marines are the regular grunts, ie, basic human combat units, and ghost should be the elite units. Same thing applies to teh LA and HA units in NS. So if you want to make the things the other way around when u replace the default units with SC units, it really doens't look right. Come on, u see a tons of ghosts running around, and then when they can't handle it, they call in the grunts which are inferior to them for help? so in my opinion, ghost should be HA, and regular marines should be the LA. Same thing applies to mutalisk and scourge thing replacement for lerk. Although that issue has been resolved and a muta model is close to release, but still it's the same problem. Most ppl only see the size of the unit, instead of the ROLEs of those units play in a game. On the other hand, it's just my own opinion, flame all u want. I just voice out my thought.
by the way, i saw blizzard has been nosing around in our forum, what the heck are they doing here? It's not like we steal their existing models for use, WE MAKE OUR OWN MODELS FOR A MOD OF HALF LIFE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STARCRAFT, ONLY SIMILARITIES. just wondering any progress update on the blizzard thing?
<!--QuoteBegin--Bigwig+Apr 2 2003, 12:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bigwig @ Apr 2 2003, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think this model should be for LA, mainly because there isn't anything else that I could possibly think of to replace LA in SC (ghosts and civilians are just stupid.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There are a few cutscenes in SC where you see "normal" soldiers. They're just ordinary, lightly-armoured (well, tee-shirted) chaps which suggests they'd be just fine for the LA role in NS.
I'm Just goiung to throw in my 2 cents imho Ghost makes no sense they are elite units but certainly not heavily armored and there is no cloaking. However the marine would make an ok soldier and possibly a firebat armor for heavy or goliath i know the size difference but hey if you're going to have a mutalisk out of scale whats the diff. just my 2 cents.
<!--QuoteBegin--Souris+Apr 3 2003, 02:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Souris @ Apr 3 2003, 02:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They're just ordinary, lightly-armoured (well, tee-shirted) chaps which suggests they'd be just fine for the LA role in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hehe, yes thats right. Not all the confederate marines in SC are in full body gear. thinking back, theres a cutscene in the protoss campaign where some guard on a scout tower and his Sgt got blown to bits <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and yes, the GHOST set up would be a nice replacement for the LA marine. Makes them look all leet and stuff <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've been thinking of making my model for both HA and Light but there's just to many animations in the soldier.mdl that would cause clipping in the model (mostly the arms into the shoulder armor). If I were to use the HA bones then the LA model would be the same size as HA and that could cause confusion (unless someone were to make some really distinctive skins).
I hear there will be a "Light Marine" unit in the new Ghost game (but I haven't see any pictures) so I thought I might make some kind of mix of the marine and the ghost for the soldier model if I need something to do after I'm done with the marine. No promises though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Unleet+Apr 3 2003, 03:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unleet @ Apr 3 2003, 03:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been thinking of making my model for both HA and Light but there's just to many animations in the soldier.mdl that would cause clipping in the model (mostly the arms into the shoulder armor). If I were to use the HA bones then the LA model would be the same size as HA and that could cause confusion (unless someone were to make some really distinctive skins).
I hear there will be a "Light Marine" unit in the new Ghost game (but I haven't see any pictures) so I thought I might make some kind of mix of the marine and the ghost for the soldier model if I need something to do after I'm done with the marine. No promises though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, the terran model is much widder and taller than the default tsa marine mdl. Even the TSA HA model is HUGE- i remember them saying it actually stretched HL's limit? Hmm, just for comparisons sake, is your SC model as wide as the 40k ones? Those are bulky looking as well.
As for using HA bones and then applying them on the LA marine, im not sure about that, but a simple color reskin would easily differentiate LA from HA. From the SC cutscenes, not all the terran marines are similiar in color, some are red, or yellow or blue and they usually have some sort of slogan on them like "BITE ME!" or some number on them.
<a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=14&frpg=2&f=#pic' target='_blank'>SC ghost sketch</a> <a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=44&frpg=5&f=#pic' target='_blank'>High Resolution TERRAN MARINES</a> <a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=45&frpg=5&f=#pic' target='_blank'>same as above, u can see the lower body parts clearer</a> <a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=Official%20Art/CG%20Art&p=14&frpg=2&f=#pic' target='_blank'>Another close up of a terran marine</a> <a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=Official%20Art/Concept%20Art&p=25&frpg=3&f=#pic' target='_blank'>Concept sketch of terran exo suit</a>
all images from Blizzard, hosted on <a href='http://www.scraftghost.net' target='_blank'>starcraft ghost</a>
ha / la are almost interchangable, apart from the jetpack submodel, so if you made it for la then people could just rename it to ha if they wanted to <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Unleet+Apr 3 2003, 03:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unleet @ Apr 3 2003, 03:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=14&frpg=2&f=#pic' target='_blank'>SC ghost sketch</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ....ok you see that? Player role be damned if someone made THAT an LA!
the original sketches for the marine were like those in starcraft:ghost, the cover was done not realative to those, and uym, can we just make a down and up visor versian, since i want up
The Marine should replace the LA, and maybe a Firebat, or Firebat looking HMG toting Heavy Weapons Marine (Possibly Goliath?) should replace the HA. I agree with Hudson in terms of roles, Ghosts aren't going to call in Marines for backup.
And where were these Blizzard guys looking around? Did they make any posts?
I think you should release one version for LA and another for HA and end of story, everyone stays happy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll be rigging my model to the LA bones tomorrow to see how well it works with the animations. If all goes well I'll make one for LA and HA and try to make them look a little different besides size.
<!--QuoteBegin--Unleet+Apr 3 2003, 02:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unleet @ Apr 3 2003, 02:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'll be rigging my model to the LA bones tomorrow to see how well it works with the animations. If all goes well I'll make one for LA and HA and try to make them look a little different besides size. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> "go go GO!"
Hey you guys like I said I would stop by the forums once in a while, and here is my suggestion you should give BIG credits to blizzard... trust me you don't wanna mess with them LOL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also the visors are BLACK tint so its suppose to be hard to see through and another suggestion if this model is for the light marine how about the white model has the visors down and then black model has visors up? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree with Hudson in terms of roles, Ghosts aren't going to call in Marines for backup.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what? ghosts are like, really weak in SC! i always make sure when i'm on nuking runs that my ghost has a nice little squad of marines to retreat to...
You have to take into account the fact that their weapon does more than twice as much damage, and has twice as much range. Ghosts are the Special Operation Forces of Starcraft, not main fighting unit.
Couldn't we all just forget that piece of information? I just love the way Ghosts look. Just model a ghost and call it a civilian, that make you feel better? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Otherwise we need another SC unit to replace the LA. What do you suggest?
Ok here's the plan. I've just gone through the animations of the LA with my model and it looks pretty good. There is quite a bit of clipping of the upper arms in the shoulder armor but I think I might be able to fix it or at least make it less noticeable. So the model I've been showing will be for the LA and will have the visor up normally but it will be down when you have the jetpack on (working on a new JP also). I'm also going to make a "heavy" version of my marine that will be for the HA, he'll be bigger, bulkier and overall heavier looking. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok I have some bad news... There seems to be some major clipping with the head going through the back of the dome whenever the model aims upward. I tried to fix it by modifying the animations but because of how the bones are setup, fixing the head causes clipping elsewhere. So it looks like I might have to ditch the head altogether and just have the visor down all the time which is a shame because it was really looking good in all the other animations. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you guys <b>reallly</b> want the head then I'll leave it but here's a pic of the clipping at it's worst.
Would it not be possible to pull down (or delete) the back of the head, or is there no way to do it that would preserve how the head looks from the front?
<!--QuoteBegin--Souris+Apr 4 2003, 08:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Souris @ Apr 4 2003, 08:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Would it not be possible to pull down (or delete) the back of the head, or is there no way to do it that would preserve how the head looks from the front? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya know I never thought of that.... I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
Comments
if you read all teh posts, majority of the ppl here only look into the size of the unit instead of the role when they replace the default NS unit with SC unit.
in my opinion, in terms of gameplay and game universe consistency, we shouldn't look too much into the size of the units.
in this case, most ppl think ghost should be teh LA, and marines should be the HA. But think about it, in starcraft, marines are the regular grunts, ie, basic human combat units, and ghost should be the elite units. Same thing applies to teh LA and HA units in NS. So if you want to make the things the other way around when u replace the default units with SC units, it really doens't look right. Come on, u see a tons of ghosts running around, and then when they can't handle it, they call in the grunts which are inferior to them for help?
so in my opinion, ghost should be HA, and regular marines should be the LA.
Same thing applies to mutalisk and scourge thing replacement for lerk. Although that issue has been resolved and a muta model is close to release, but still it's the same problem. Most ppl only see the size of the unit, instead of the ROLEs of those units play in a game.
On the other hand, it's just my own opinion, flame all u want. I just voice out my thought.
by the way, i saw blizzard has been nosing around in our forum, what the heck are they doing here? It's not like we steal their existing models for use, WE MAKE OUR OWN MODELS FOR A MOD OF HALF LIFE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STARCRAFT, ONLY SIMILARITIES.
just wondering any progress update on the blizzard thing?
There are a few cutscenes in SC where you see "normal" soldiers. They're just ordinary, lightly-armoured (well, tee-shirted) chaps which suggests they'd be just fine for the LA role in NS.
hehe, yes thats right. Not all the confederate marines in SC are in full body gear. thinking back, theres a cutscene in the protoss campaign where some guard on a scout tower and his Sgt got blown to bits <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and yes, the GHOST set up would be a nice replacement for the LA marine. Makes them look all leet and stuff <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
I hear there will be a "Light Marine" unit in the new Ghost game (but I haven't see any pictures) so I thought I might make some kind of mix of the marine and the ghost for the soldier model if I need something to do after I'm done with the marine. No promises though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I hear there will be a "Light Marine" unit in the new Ghost game (but I haven't see any pictures) so I thought I might make some kind of mix of the marine and the ghost for the soldier model if I need something to do after I'm done with the marine. No promises though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, the terran model is much widder and taller than the default tsa marine mdl. Even the TSA HA model is HUGE- i remember them saying it actually stretched HL's limit? Hmm, just for comparisons sake, is your SC model as wide as the 40k ones? Those are bulky looking as well.
As for using HA bones and then applying them on the LA marine, im not sure about that, but a simple color reskin would easily differentiate LA from HA. From the SC cutscenes, not all the terran marines are similiar in color, some are red, or yellow or blue and they usually have some sort of slogan on them like "BITE ME!" or some number on them.
<a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=14&frpg=2&f=#pic' target='_blank'>SC ghost sketch</a>
<a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=44&frpg=5&f=#pic' target='_blank'>High Resolution TERRAN MARINES</a>
<a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=March%202003%20-%20Mass%20Release&p=45&frpg=5&f=#pic' target='_blank'>same as above, u can see the lower body parts clearer</a>
<a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=Official%20Art/CG%20Art&p=14&frpg=2&f=#pic' target='_blank'>Another close up of a terran marine</a>
<a href='http://www.scraftghost.net/gallery/shots.php?g=Official%20Art/Concept%20Art&p=25&frpg=3&f=#pic' target='_blank'>Concept sketch of terran exo suit</a>
all images from Blizzard, hosted on <a href='http://www.scraftghost.net' target='_blank'>starcraft ghost</a>
....ok you see that? Player role be damned if someone made THAT an LA!
And where were these Blizzard guys looking around? Did they make any posts?
-GF
"go go GO!"
(cant wait)
Also the visors are BLACK tint so its suppose to be hard to see through and another suggestion if this model is for the light marine how about the white model has the visors down and then black model has visors up? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
okay thats all bai bai for now.
- 3ncrypted zer0
what? ghosts are like, really weak in SC! i always make sure when i'm on nuking runs that my ghost has a nice little squad of marines to retreat to...
Otherwise we need another SC unit to replace the LA. What do you suggest?
Me want. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Great work so far, it looks awesome. Can't wait to use it!
You know your standard cap,unifrom and gun soldier
Very nice <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
keep up the good work
If you guys <b>reallly</b> want the head then I'll leave it but here's a pic of the clipping at it's worst.
Ya know I never thought of that.... I'll give it a try and see how it goes.