<!--QuoteBegin--Pr0n+Mar 31 2003, 03:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pr0n @ Mar 31 2003, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When a skulk gets lvl 3 cara you have to hit him with ALL 10 pellets to kill it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, all 10 bullets (16 damage) on a 3 lvl carapace skulk will do him 112 damage. That's 8-9 pellets to kill <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Amorphous+Mar 31 2003, 03:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Amorphous @ Mar 31 2003, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But one shot at close range will still kill. I like the shotgun personally. I always ask the comm to drop me a shotgun instead of an hmg, to save res. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And if you ask him in a calm manner like one who knows what to do like "Comm please give me a shotgun when you can and have enough res.". They'll probably give you one on the spot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If your dealing with lev3 carapace try to puch com to get lev3 gats.. In alot of situations I perfer the shotty. I especialy like how fast you can move if you only half load it. When im part of a HA thrust I like to be the guy with the shotty/welder. Early on I perfer it in JP rushes becuase its cheap and a mag does fricken 1600 damage to a hive in a few seconds. The sheare mass damage combined with having it a few seconds into the game makes it a nasty hive rushing tool. If im setting up for a early hive rush I like to have one shotty for every 2 LMGs. LMGs maintain the lock down while shotgunners kill hive.
If im just tooling about and res is plentiful I like to rambo with the shotty just to get good twitch kill practice.
Ha ha ha ha hah........ Oh, you were serious, ok. HMG, always HMG.
HMG's will often blow aliens away before they redeem, skulks are HMG bait even when the HMG is placed in the hands of an inexperienced player, chambers are no longer much of an obstacle, and assuming that you have MT, the long reload is not that much of a problem. On the other hand: I HATE the shotty, I've seen a few who are actually quite competent with it, but outside of a group of at least one capable lmg'er they don't stand a chance, 16 res down the drain. The principal problem is that it sprays pellets so wide that the only plausible range is melee range (where personally I prefer not to be). On the few occations where I've been stuck with a shotty I had more kills with the pistol.
JP's are equally usefull to the HMG'er and the shotgunner, so I'll leave them out of the equation.
<!--QuoteBegin--Koenig+Apr 1 2003, 03:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Koenig @ Apr 1 2003, 03:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ha ha ha ha hah........ Oh, you were serious, ok. HMG, always HMG.
I HATE the shotty. The principal problem is that it sprays pellets so wide that the only plausible range is melee range (where personally I prefer not to be). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You gotta be kidding, the HMG sprays wide just as badly as the shotgun, you can't hit anything with an HMG thats on the other side of a room. You're better off with your LMG and pistol.
HE BASHED THE SHOTGUN! HE BASHED THE OL' BOOMSTICK! DIE! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
if you don't like to be in melee i don't see any reason to you to continue playing NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> melee is the fun part of combat.
i prefer HMG, 'cause i have a hard time keeping a cool head in combat.....plus, it lets me reload faster than the shotty (i HATE that reload), and the clip is so much bigger you can use it in any role....support, offensive, building destruction, or cover. It isn't too weak, and i'm willing to take it (or the LMG, for that matter) into any hotzone and trust it to get me out again. I must be a machine-gun man.
Asal The Unforgiving I will live to be immortal...or die trying!
Don't get me wrong, I love the shotgun and have made numerous posts about it. It's cost efficient and powerful at close range. But as far as overall effectiveness there's nothing to discuss. HMGs are the clear winner.
You simply cannot kill things faster or easier with any other weapon than you can with an HMG. That's why it costs so much and thats why you need to do research in the tech tree to get it.
4 out of 5 skulks agree that they'd rather run into a shotgun than an hmg.
i think the reason we don't see many shotguns handed out in the pubs is cuz you have to know that the person you're giving the shotty to isn't just going to run off on his own and lose it...a nice 20 res down the hole. and there really is no way of knowing who will do well with a shotty in a public server. that and, most people don't see the shotty as the epensive weapon that it is...20 res will deplete your reserve fast if you have a bunch of marines calling "gimme shottie" then go die, and you keep handing out more. i guess my point is that the shotgun is a more sophisticated weapon for the more sophisticated player(not me by a long shot, i stand proud with my lvl 3 lmg <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> ). i do plan to learn to use the shotty though...it is just a matter of learning not to spray in the alien's general direction, hitting maybe half the time, which you can get away with with any other weapon. anywho, that's my 2 cents...
For anyone who hasn't messed around with the shotty, or wants to practice with one, go to the multiplayer menu and start your own LAN game, open the console, type 'sv_cheats 1' (without speech marks). The game noise will start, build an IP then an amory, drop yourself a shotgun, load up with ammo. Go to the kharaa hive, and you'll find that you'll still have 16 bullets left over after killing the hive. (F4 to change sides mid-game)
To whoever thinks the HMG loads clips faster.. The shotgun doesn't need to fully reload to start firing again, try it. You can shoot almost as soon as the anim shows you putting the bullet in.
A good trick to practice with the shotty, is to jump up and shoot at the place where your feet used to be, as if you were going to rocket jump, you won't rocket jump but you'll kill anything biting your ankles. Practice, jumping forward, and spinning around in mid-air and shooting at the ground behind you, great for taking out skulks sneaking up behind.
I went to ref hive to take out a hive. There was one HMG with me. He got killed, i killed four skulks to his 1 with my shotgun and killed the hive before i got gorged. (Yes, gorged, laugh your **** off)
The reload factor on the shotty is amazing compared to an HMG, plus at point blank range, which is what most of the Kharaa fight with anyway, the shotty has huge damage. But the slower rate of fire and high learning curve don't make it quite so effective. In addition it takes about 10 times as long to fully load up a shotgun from an armory as it does for your three click HMG. And the whole, powerful at close range is all and good, but most of the kharaa are built for close range, with weapons that do more to you than you can to them, really making it an effective starting weapon but not preferable to an HMG.
Well you need to factor in the speed of the marine also. A marine with a half loaded shotgun can dodge more skulks than a marine with a fully loaded HMG.
Really, its all prefrence. Power or less power at range and more speed.
Enables you to engage multiple skulks in a relatively short period of time.More useful against OCs and hives.ROF is more useful against fades CQB(i found out that redempt fades need 3 shotgun hits to kill,not two.The maths may disagree but i have on numerous occasions fired 2 relatively pointblank shotgun blasts to kill it,then it redempts to saftey.The ROF of the HMG means that i have a small chance of killing the fade before redempt kicks in(due to lag compensation),higher if there are supporting units.
<!--QuoteBegin--Amorphous+Mar 30 2003, 09:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Amorphous @ Mar 30 2003, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well. IMO i think that there should be two shotguns per five. 2 Shotgun/pistol/jp with 3 HMG/Welder/HA troops, with the Shotty guys keeping the rear flank and taking out buildings (Shotgun is a frickin mobile siege)
I have also seen a group of 5 HA, only two with hmgs, fully upgraded weapons/.armor. They were unstopable.
Just some suggestions, guys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ehhh 5 HA should have 3 HMG and 2 GL sorri if u find 2 lerks and three fades ur sorta screwed when they get that umbra in the air <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> if u dun have ny GLs
For me, it depends.. If I know I'm going to face numerous enemies, IE, we're turtled in, game is already down the drain, com is passing out HAs as a last ditch attempt to hold out, I want as many fades to go down with me as humanly possible. So. I go with the HMG. Early-mid game, shottie takes all comers. Espicially with JP. Think about it. If you have a JP, your going to do hit-and-run attacks. Your not going face to face with your enemy. A JP only makes sense. Although I haven't tried it, nor seen it, this 'divebomb' technique described seems like a perfect strategy..
Your in Maintainence of ns_hera. A fade is battling a few marines in the maintainence tunnel. You have a JP/shottie and your on the pipes at the top of the room (favorite skulk/lerk hiding spot) and the fade is acid rocketing the marines in the tunnel, backing in and out from behind the wall. As the fade is standing behind the wall, waiting for his energy, you step off the pipes and start falling. You pop a shot into his back mid air, just as your hitting your jp to break your fall, you slam into the back of the fade, say, you hit em with 8+ pellets on that one, then as your jets fully kick in, you skyrocket into the ceiling 30 feet up, perhaps getting another shot for 4-5 pellets if your lucky. If the fade hasn't yet regained his senses, you let your jets off and you drop back onto his head, and back to the ceiling you go... I just thought that up.. <warm fuzzy feeling inside> I gotta go try this.. Other night I was playin on 11th hour I beleive.. Big huge marine start.. It's 2v2, most people have gone to bed.. We're gettin owned so we figure we'll have a bit of fun with it.. Com drops me a shottie. And off I go. Nothing stands in my path. I killed 2 fades at least, 4+ skulks, 1 lerk, and theres no stoppin me. Until some skulk with silence drops right on top of my head and makes me cry. Shottie can be very.. very dangerous.
HMG though is only good if you know your going to be facing large numbers of enemies or tough enemies.. Or else you'll end up in a situation where it's worthless.
This isn't about the Nade launcher, but i have to say this. Nader is a specialized weapon, and isn't really for much more than umbra or building demolition. It can be used, but it is unbearably hard to use in combat situation. If you ask me, ideal assault group = LMG/Welder (nothing else, draws out victims, and breaks webs/welds vents) 3 HA/(or Shottie, depends on the skill and personal preference)HMG (Heavy Assualt Marines, the core of this attack) GL/Welder/JP (mobile Demolitionist/Support Unit)
Now on to the real topic- HMG - mob suppression Shottie - Personalized Annialator
HMG has a better rate of fire, and larger clip. In groups, the HMG can put down amazing cover fire or shelling upon any location, and can hold off any number of aliens Shottie has a more powerful attack at close range, and a pitifully small clip. In groups, can destroy any comers with quick efficiency, assuming you get there. Both good at destroying buildings and squishing aliens. IMO HMG is better, but i don't have the necessary skills to use a Shottie as effectively as it could be used. Don't get me wrong, i respect the Shottie, but I can't use it. If it can be done, I prefer to have guys with both guns at my back. Still don't know what's wrong with the LMG though.... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's great being able to watch a Skulk run up the hall towards you, Leap, and then get blown to pieces when you fire one round into the Skulk at nearly point-blank range. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> omg, i did that once as well.
this is a tactic of mine, I don'T know if you guys use it
take one jp, one decent soldier and a shottie/hmg, tell him to fly on top of the hive and crouch and blow the **** out of the hive, half of the time the khara don't know what's happening, especially in the middle of an attack, and when they do find you out the marine doesn't have much trouble killing them as the skulk normally has trouble getting its bearings right and a lerk just gets blown out of the sky note: this tactic only works in large rooms like computer hive
Comments
That is all for now.
No, all 10 bullets (16 damage) on a 3 lvl carapace skulk will do him 112 damage. That's 8-9 pellets to kill <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And if you ask him in a calm manner like one who knows what to do like "Comm please give me a shotgun when you can and have enough res.". They'll probably give you one on the spot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
In alot of situations I perfer the shotty. I especialy like how fast you can move if you only half load it. When im part of a HA thrust I like to be the guy with the shotty/welder. Early on I perfer it in JP rushes becuase its cheap and a mag does fricken 1600 damage to a hive in a few seconds. The sheare mass damage combined with having it a few seconds into the game makes it a nasty hive rushing tool. If im setting up for a early hive rush I like to have one shotty for every 2 LMGs. LMGs maintain the lock down while shotgunners kill hive.
If im just tooling about and res is plentiful I like to rambo with the shotty just to get good twitch kill practice.
and with the HMG, you don't get to sit and bite your lip while the skulk charges you, but thats the fun part
Oh, you were serious, ok. HMG, always HMG.
HMG's will often blow aliens away before they redeem, skulks are HMG bait even when the HMG is placed in the hands of an inexperienced player, chambers are no longer much of an obstacle, and assuming that you have MT, the long reload is not that much of a problem.
On the other hand:
I HATE the shotty, I've seen a few who are actually quite competent with it, but outside of a group of at least one capable lmg'er they don't stand a chance, 16 res down the drain. The principal problem is that it sprays pellets so wide that the only plausible range is melee range (where personally I prefer not to be). On the few occations where I've been stuck with a shotty I had more kills with the pistol.
JP's are equally usefull to the HMG'er and the shotgunner, so I'll leave them out of the equation.
Oh, you were serious, ok. HMG, always HMG.
I HATE the shotty. The principal problem is that it sprays pellets so wide that the only plausible range is melee range (where personally I prefer not to be). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You gotta be kidding, the HMG sprays wide just as badly as the shotgun, you can't hit anything with an HMG thats on the other side of a room. You're better off with your LMG and pistol.
Asal The Unforgiving
I will live to be immortal...or die trying!
You simply cannot kill things faster or easier with any other weapon than you can with an HMG. That's why it costs so much and thats why you need to do research in the tech tree to get it.
4 out of 5 skulks agree that they'd rather run into a shotgun than an hmg.
<3 shotgun, but its not #1
To whoever thinks the HMG loads clips faster.. The shotgun doesn't need to fully reload to start firing again, try it. You can shoot almost as soon as the anim shows you putting the bullet in.
A good trick to practice with the shotty, is to jump up and shoot at the place where your feet used to be, as if you were going to rocket jump, you won't rocket jump but you'll kill anything biting your ankles. Practice, jumping forward, and spinning around in mid-air and shooting at the ground behind you, great for taking out skulks sneaking up behind.
I went to ref hive to take out a hive. There was one HMG with me. He got killed, i killed four skulks to his 1 with my shotgun and killed the hive before i got gorged. (Yes, gorged, laugh your **** off)
Do you want an hmg or a shotgun?
HMG obviously.
You cannot kill a group of aliens fast enough with the shotgun.
And the whole, powerful at close range is all and good, but most of the kharaa are built for close range, with weapons that do more to you than you can to them, really making it an effective starting weapon but not preferable to an HMG.
Ratfire
Really, its all prefrence. Power or less power at range and more speed.
Enables you to engage multiple skulks in a relatively short period of time.More useful against OCs and hives.ROF is more useful against fades CQB(i found out that redempt fades need 3 shotgun hits to kill,not two.The maths may disagree but i have on numerous occasions fired 2 relatively pointblank shotgun blasts to kill it,then it redempts to saftey.The ROF of the HMG means that i have a small chance of killing the fade before redempt kicks in(due to lag compensation),higher if there are supporting units.
I have also seen a group of 5 HA, only two with hmgs, fully upgraded weapons/.armor. They were unstopable.
Just some suggestions, guys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ehhh 5 HA
should have
3 HMG and 2 GL
sorri
if u find 2 lerks and three fades
ur sorta screwed when they get that umbra in the air <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> if u dun have ny GLs
Your in Maintainence of ns_hera. A fade is battling a few marines in the maintainence tunnel. You have a JP/shottie and your on the pipes at the top of the room (favorite skulk/lerk hiding spot) and the fade is acid rocketing the marines in the tunnel, backing in and out from behind the wall. As the fade is standing behind the wall, waiting for his energy, you step off the pipes and start falling. You pop a shot into his back mid air, just as your hitting your jp to break your fall, you slam into the back of the fade, say, you hit em with 8+ pellets on that one, then as your jets fully kick in, you skyrocket into the ceiling 30 feet up, perhaps getting another shot for 4-5 pellets if your lucky. If the fade hasn't yet regained his senses, you let your jets off and you drop back onto his head, and back to the ceiling you go... I just thought that up.. <warm fuzzy feeling inside> I gotta go try this.. Other night I was playin on 11th hour I beleive.. Big huge marine start.. It's 2v2, most people have gone to bed.. We're gettin owned so we figure we'll have a bit of fun with it.. Com drops me a shottie. And off I go. Nothing stands in my path. I killed 2 fades at least, 4+ skulks, 1 lerk, and theres no stoppin me. Until some skulk with silence drops right on top of my head and makes me cry. Shottie can be very.. very dangerous.
HMG though is only good if you know your going to be facing large numbers of enemies or tough enemies.. Or else you'll end up in a situation where it's worthless.
...On the other hand... Nader beats em both down.
LMG/Welder (nothing else, draws out victims, and breaks webs/welds vents)
3 HA/(or Shottie, depends on the skill and personal preference)HMG (Heavy Assualt Marines, the core of this attack)
GL/Welder/JP (mobile Demolitionist/Support Unit)
Now on to the real topic-
HMG - mob suppression
Shottie - Personalized Annialator
HMG has a better rate of fire, and larger clip. In groups, the HMG can put down amazing cover fire or shelling upon any location, and can hold off any number of aliens
Shottie has a more powerful attack at close range, and a pitifully small clip. In groups, can destroy any comers with quick efficiency, assuming you get there.
Both good at destroying buildings and squishing aliens. IMO HMG is better, but i don't have the necessary skills to use a Shottie as effectively as it could be used. Don't get me wrong, i respect the Shottie, but I can't use it. If it can be done, I prefer to have guys with both guns at my back. Still don't know what's wrong with the LMG though.... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's great being able to watch a Skulk run up the hall towards you, Leap, and then get blown to pieces when you fire one round into the Skulk at nearly point-blank range. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg, i did that once as well.
<a href='http://tuzakey.com/~roach/ns/roachems/shotgun-final2.avi' target='_blank'>http://tuzakey.com/~roach/ns/roachems/shot...tgun-final2.avi</a>
take one jp, one decent soldier and a shottie/hmg, tell him to fly on top of the hive and crouch and blow the **** out of the hive, half of the time the khara don't know what's happening, especially in the middle of an attack, and when they do find you out the marine doesn't have much trouble killing them as the skulk normally has trouble getting its bearings right and a lerk just gets blown out of the sky
note: this tactic only works in large rooms like computer hive