My point is that it should never come to that (that's why I called it a contingency.) An aggressive early push for the hive with constant resource denial and gorge killing while teching to JP/HMG should win the game. The aliens will never have enough res to either get fades or tons of OCs/DCs all over the map.
The HA rocks, and is definetly preferable over JP in any situation where two hives are involved, many fail to see the potential however, and often its the commanders fault.
Marines fight best in the open, where their guns offer the greatest advantage, over the melee based aliens(including fade), no alien except onos can get near a couple of marines with HA/HMG's camping out in a nice open area
The problem is that commanders tend to rely solely on HA/HMG once he gets them (they even seem to forget about regular upgrades). This forces the HA's to enter the hives , where the aliens are much harder to kill and, they are ofter forced to deal with webs inside the hive. Instead the comm should build a siege at the hive, this forces aliens to come out and fight on a turf more firendly to marines.
HA is certainly not useless, but there are two caveats:
1) People need to know how to use the heavy weapons and how to compensate for reduced mobility. Charging alone towards fades at the end of a long hallway, while you have an HMG and they are in umbra, is a definite no-no. Knowing when to weld teammates is also a major plus.
2) HA has a critical weakness against offensive webbing. A skilled gorge with proper support can easily cripple a group of HA's long enough for other aliens to go melee and tear them apart. Even if the marines don't move around, they can be webbed without much difficulty. I really think that webbing needs to be tweaked, either webs having a brief "solidifying" phase (like I suggested here: <a href='http://tinyurl.com/9mzw' target='_blank'>http://tinyurl.com/9mzw</a> ) or allow a welder to immediately free a webbed marine (and not allow the welder marine himself to be webbed while using the welder).
Yesterday I played a game of natural selection. We were preparing for the "inevitable" jetpack rush, and the gorge was almost ready to go set up a second hive. That's when I spotted something odd. There were two really big lookin' guys with heavy machine guns stomping out of the marine base. They killed me quickly...Heavy armor? I was pretty sure I wasn't mistaken, but it had been so long since I'd seen such a thing I went to check again. I was worried I had hallucinated the even or something <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
They killed our first hive (cargo), but the gorge had just started setting up Viaduct. Aliens had started attacking the marine base, so the heavies pulled back to their base. A few light marines started attacking our hive, and our last defenender fell just as the hive was going up. We repelled the attackers when we started respawning. A gorge started to get powersilo up. Three heavy marines started coming in as Power went up. We turned their attack only because one of the marines was inadequately welded, and fell to a combination of lerk spikes and skulks. The other two dropped down into the lower part of viaduct, where our gorge saved the team by webbing them both.
We got enough resources to go fade. Three fades managed to hold off another attack by combined forces of light and heavy marines building a phase outside viaduct. If they hadn't stayed in that narrow corridor, we may well have lost (since the splash from the acid was able to hit all of them). We held off a few more attacks, causing a few of us to lose our fade status. Then we realized that we hadn't checked red room in a while...
To make a long story short, marines should have won this battle. They effortlessly kicked us out of cargo, and kept the pressure on. This meant they could take more resource nodes, and kept the alien team from capturing as many. The only reason we eventually won was the commander was behind on what the aliens were doing. A little use of comsat at the other hives, or even some marines jetpacking around checking the hives would have given us a loss. He used the heavies almost exclusively, though he handed out a few jetpacks. He used the jetpacks only as a cheaper, faster version of the heavy, and neglected using them to scout and neglecting to periodically ping the hives. This would have made him notice when we got up Via, then power, then when we took back cargo.
Heavies are just fine as they are. Don't just use heavies though. There are other important aspects of the game that are forgotten when all you do is load up your guys with HA/HMG and welders. Sorry you guys had to read through all that...I guess I get a bit verbose when I'm sleepy. Hopefully it's coherent, and helps make my point.
the biggest problem is lack of teamwork...when people don't wield each other. marines are nearly invicilbe in wielder rushes and the same is true if a couple keep wielding on cue when needed normally. The problem is people usually don't. Second rule...GL's. Even though most of your guys have HMG's...don't be afraid to drop one or two GL's...it'll keep the aliens back and give your troops some great punch to work with while they attack.
Last night I commed an 8 on 8 game in eclipse. I had my marines go cap res everywhere. Station acces alpha, Triad, and Ecplise hive. I had 2 phase gates going from base to hive. with TF and T's at ecplise. RES was comming in great and I manage to get level 2 guns and level 3 armor, Motion HMG's JP, with level 3 weapons on the way and HA comming too. The aliens had two hives at this time so I gave everyone JP HMG's. Two people I gave GL's I gave them a way point to CC. I don't think one of them made it out of base! Or at least near a hive. The aliens had fades and OT all over the map and none of them knew their way around. As a marine died I gave them another JP and HMG while spamming Health packs everywhere untill I ran out of res. By this time HA was done and level 3 weapons. I saved up to 200 res and gave 4 guys HA, Welders, and 3 HMG's and one GL. and I had enough res to supply them with health and ammo. Ecplise fell at this time so I told the team they had to get to a hive. I choose maintence because most of the aliens where building at ecplise and CC. I HAD TO KICK THE HA's to move out of base! I kept spamming health just in front of them. The intire team followed them out and they slowly made their way to the hive. I must of use 100 res just in health and ammo alone. I am not sure what happen but they got to keyhole then the next thing I see is the entire team just died! What did I do wrong?!?!?!?! I had every upgrade possible.
Next time I am going to skip the JP's and go striaght for HA. All it takes is 1 JP/HMG to take out a hive so I figuerd if everyone had one someone would fine their way to the hive. I guess it takes 1 JP/HMG/Good marine to take out a hive. The marines were good as far as listening but when it came down to it they just were not good fighters. Maybe the reason we lost was the aliens team was just better. Noone blamed me for the lost and I didn't go around pointing fingers but I seen very few games were marines are fully upgraded and still lose. There should be a topic on how to use HA properly. Maybe there is I am going to look.
I think HA is great but people are use to JP's packs so they are use to it. HA what is that? I can't wait till NS 1.1 comes out! Though I am not sure if it will help the HA.
Heavy armor is extremely effective against an alien team that relies too much on fades (or even exclusively on fades). This does happen a lot to alien teams on public servers.
However, offensive webbing is insanely good against heavy armor. A good battle gorge working with a lerk (umbra keeps the gorge alive) and a couple of fades can take out an entire HA squad pretty easily. As long as a gorge keeps the marines webbed up most of the time they get killed one by one by fade acid, lerk spikes, skulks, or even spammed offense turrets.
In my experience, the aliens will win the majority of HA vs 2 hive alien conflicts as long as they use offensive webbing. Does anyone care to suggest some tactics that effectively counter offensive webbing? The only thing I find effective is killing the gorge quickly, which can be very difficult if the gorge is any good.
I really think web needs to be nerfed in some fashion so that it is not so effective on offense. It is devastating when used offensively during running battles or when attacking marine bases or outposts.
Well Ive noticed that a lot of commanders dont reasonably balance their weapons/squads in public games so its all pot luck <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
In a 4 man HA death squad ( 3 HMGs, 1 GL/Shotty if comm cant afford), The roles should be as follows:
A) 2 HMGs open fire on hive ONE AFTER ANOTHER. NOT at the same time (reload times could mean the team getting caught off guard with not enough firepower). This is usually more than enough to take down the hive very very quickly.
B) 1 HMG guarding the team (shooting skulks, lerks, gorges etc) This guy should never need to reload much. He is crouching behind the team and shooting any back stabbing aliens
If there is a gler, one hmg from A should be a designated welder. He does NOT take out his weapon until absolutely neccesay. He has his welder out and holds on to the fire button. The Gler should be lobbing nades at the hive. Therefore --- 1 HMG and 1 GL on hive, one HMG defending, one welder/HMG guy
If there is no gler, instead a shotty, marine from B) now has the role of welder. Shotty guy has the role of defending his team's ****. Therefore --- 2 HMG on hive, one Shotty defending, one welder/HMG guy
I have to agree that HA is very usefull if used well. I wasnt actually commanding but playing as marine, we had resources like mad and comm asked do we want ha or jp, we voted for ha because everyone agreeded that jp is overused. It was fun when everyone had HA and all the cool toys.
We had major battle againts Fades/OC's/skulks, lerks,gorges!. It was something i've never expirienced before, its hard to descripe it with words though.. well perhaps INSANE battle is suffient. The server where this battle took place can host 26 players..so you can get pretty good idea how huge battle it really was.
The outcome: server crashed! But until that it was best game ever.
<!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Apr 26 2003, 11:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Apr 26 2003, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well Ive noticed that a lot of commanders dont reasonably balance their weapons/squads in public games so its all pot luck <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> EXACTLY!
You need Gl's on ocassion, not just HMGS, and maybe one shotgun guy won't be a problem either
I see offensive webbing as the big downfall of HA's as well. It all looks so good until that dreaded cry of, "I'm webbed!" starts. HA's need to be close to each other to weld. This same closeness makes them prime targets for webbing. This limits them to primarily defensive tasks.
Against alien teams with little concept of the finer points of the game, sure, HA's are cool. Against organised alien teams, with combined alien classes attacking, they can drop like flies (and very expensive little flies they are too).
I'm not sure if this has been said, I have not read all of these posts, but I refer to HA as the finisher and JP as the softener. I generally rush to get JP up first, and rush with 3jps 1jp/shotfunner. All other people are assigned to RT gathering. Should this rush be successful then thats great, we win. But if it is not, HA has finished upgrading by then.
So, after the initial JP rush I do form a HA batallion. That way the alien team will be gearing up for JP's, spending RP on OC's/Lerks. Then catching them off-guard will really win the day.
Also note that while your HA is out, you MUST, now this is essential, you MUST have at least one or TWO people with JP/welders at your base. When the skulks hear about a HA team they generally scatter and run, and the one place that they usually go to is your base. If you do not have base defenses then the aliens have a high chance of winning (Rines have no more ammo=death).
<b>By far</b> the most effective HA setup I have ever used is:
3 HMG's 2 GL's 3 LMG's
WTH!?!? 3 LMG's?!?!?
Yes! Three of them don't get a gun, only the standard-issue welder, and orders to ONLY use the welder and CONSTANTLY weld their teammates. 3 is the magic number. I'm usually up against Aleins that use the dreaded "teamwork hax" so 2 GL's are needed to keep the lerks and gorges away.
The real problem with HA is lack of flexibility though, it takes forever for them to get somewhere. Now I usually go with 2/2/3 HMG/GL/WELD and have 1 JP/HMG kill/guard res nodes and do all the other jobs (and getting phase gates up for the HA's). If I were to use only HA I would go back to the 3/2/3 setup though.
The biggest problem with HA is that eitheer people don't weld enough, and die, or they are ALL welding, meaning they aren't killing stuff. You might think that having 3 dedicated welders out of 8 reduces the firepower, in actuality it raises it, since the other 5 can concentrate on just shooting.
HA is not useless if used properly, however, because of the <b>immense</b> jetpack use it could be considered a "back shelf" item. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
they (HA) are more of the "i phase to the place and defend it" and "ill phase to the place and seige the nearby hive"
If you think about it... Heavy Armour is no more "invincible" than a good fade. They have a bit less 'effective' hitpoints, but with much greater mobility (faster than light marines, blink).
I don't recall seeing a HA victory, as marines or aliens, when the aliens had 2 hives unless the aliens were... not very good. Seems wrong that the top tier tech of marines are as weak as they are vs. hive 2 aliens. The key problem is mobility I think... HA is just too damn slow with HMGs/GLs. While the slow moving tank force o' doom trudges towards a hive the aliens run around em in circles, perhaps even sending a few fades to shred their base. Phases are too easy to take down now.
Well, when was the last time you saw a group of marines that honestly KNEW what it was doing with suits of HA? They seem few and far between. I don't know if I've seen any games lately where HA has been all that decisive, and mainly for the same reason that JPs had a hard time. Most people have absolutely no clue how to use HA. Fix that, and you're good. But that means you gotta learn to use it. That takes time, and in learning you tend to lose games...go figure. So JPs have monopolized, mainly because we all learned that first. Personally, I prefer the sheer impressive knowledge that HA comes with. Too bad it isn't consistently used.
Marines equiped with HA on public games often falls to what I refer to as "the rambo syndrome" They think they are all so invincible that they can split up their group, blast everything, totally ignoring the commander and then die one by one. I only give HA to marines I know and trust, and it works like a charm.
yeah, you do have to be more careful with handing out HA than you do with JPs, for the reason of cost and the ability required to be effective.... Sir_GoItAlone will never survive nearly as long as Sgt_Teamguy working with his two friends, Shooter and Welderman. Most annoying to see a rambo steal HA....a sad waste of a good suit.
uh, tanks are designed to attack...artillary is defensive. tanks are actually FAST assualt troops, used to breach an enemy position and leave a hole that can be exploited by supporting infantry.....so HA is NOT tanks.
<span style='font-family:Times'> </span><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> </span><span style='color:red'> </span>HA is very useful if the person/people know how to use it, but I dont like it because it slows you down so much, plus once your armor is 0 you still walk slow :/
From what I have seen so far, HA and JPs both have merits and demerits.
JPs are mobility devices - they make marines move very fast and hard to hit. It makes them very difficult for melee aliens to actually hit them (if you stay in the air). However, it does not improve armor, so a few well aimed acid rockets will bring them down, esp when they get caught in corridors with fades. Not good when fades appear, thats what.
HA are well armored, so they can probably take much more damage than JPs, and with welder they are invincible (almost). But they are sloooooow. Therefore, HAs must work in groups, and because HA research is 2x as expensive as JP, this makes it a late-game item. They are essentially fade killers, and without massive support by onos, they are definitely able to turn the tide of the game.
So, when you are in early game and the aliens have not claimed 2 hives, go with the JPs and hmgs (maybe shotties), but when the going gets tough, start researching HAs and prepare for longer-drawn assualts - but winning, nevertheless. JP guys should not go RAMBO, nor should HA guys. Try to have them complementing each other, and the game will turn in the marines' favor.
Also, to support a heavy army, try to have a strong economic base. Fortify every node you find, and you can replace any losses. In one of the games, we had 800 res before the aliens decided to F4 after we smashed silo. We lost gen in nothing once, but we did manage to refortify the place because we could afford to send HA after HA to the battle. So once again, get a strong economy! (This works in every other strat game I can imagine).
Comments
Barring that, get HA, the "plan B."
Marines fight best in the open, where their guns offer the greatest advantage, over the melee based aliens(including fade), no alien except onos can get near a couple of marines with HA/HMG's camping out in a nice open area
The problem is that commanders tend to rely solely on HA/HMG once he gets them (they even seem to forget about regular upgrades). This forces the HA's to enter the hives , where the aliens are much harder to kill and, they are ofter forced to deal with webs inside the hive. Instead the comm should build a siege at the hive, this forces aliens to come out and fight on a turf more firendly to marines.
1) People need to know how to use the heavy weapons and how to compensate for reduced mobility. Charging alone towards fades at the end of a long hallway, while you have an HMG and they are in umbra, is a definite no-no. Knowing when to weld teammates is also a major plus.
2) HA has a critical weakness against offensive webbing. A skilled gorge with proper support can easily cripple a group of HA's long enough for other aliens to go melee and tear them apart. Even if the marines don't move around, they can be webbed without much difficulty. I really think that webbing needs to be tweaked, either webs having a brief "solidifying" phase (like I suggested here: <a href='http://tinyurl.com/9mzw' target='_blank'>http://tinyurl.com/9mzw</a> ) or allow a welder to immediately free a webbed marine (and not allow the welder marine himself to be webbed while using the welder).
They killed our first hive (cargo), but the gorge had just started setting up Viaduct. Aliens had started attacking the marine base, so the heavies pulled back to their base. A few light marines started attacking our hive, and our last defenender fell just as the hive was going up. We repelled the attackers when we started respawning. A gorge started to get powersilo up. Three heavy marines started coming in as Power went up. We turned their attack only because one of the marines was inadequately welded, and fell to a combination of lerk spikes and skulks. The other two dropped down into the lower part of viaduct, where our gorge saved the team by webbing them both.
We got enough resources to go fade. Three fades managed to hold off another attack by combined forces of light and heavy marines building a phase outside viaduct. If they hadn't stayed in that narrow corridor, we may well have lost (since the splash from the acid was able to hit all of them). We held off a few more attacks, causing a few of us to lose our fade status. Then we realized that we hadn't checked red room in a while...
To make a long story short, marines should have won this battle. They effortlessly kicked us out of cargo, and kept the pressure on. This meant they could take more resource nodes, and kept the alien team from capturing as many. The only reason we eventually won was the commander was behind on what the aliens were doing. A little use of comsat at the other hives, or even some marines jetpacking around checking the hives would have given us a loss. He used the heavies almost exclusively, though he handed out a few jetpacks. He used the jetpacks only as a cheaper, faster version of the heavy, and neglected using them to scout and neglecting to periodically ping the hives. This would have made him notice when we got up Via, then power, then when we took back cargo.
Heavies are just fine as they are. Don't just use heavies though. There are other important aspects of the game that are forgotten when all you do is load up your guys with HA/HMG and welders. Sorry you guys had to read through all that...I guess I get a bit verbose when I'm sleepy. Hopefully it's coherent, and helps make my point.
Next time I am going to skip the JP's and go striaght for HA. All it takes is 1 JP/HMG to take out a hive so I figuerd if everyone had one someone would fine their way to the hive. I guess it takes 1 JP/HMG/Good marine to take out a hive. The marines were good as far as listening but when it came down to it they just were not good fighters. Maybe the reason we lost was the aliens team was just better. Noone blamed me for the lost and I didn't go around pointing fingers but I seen very few games were marines are fully upgraded and still lose. There should be a topic on how to use HA properly. Maybe there is I am going to look.
I think HA is great but people are use to JP's packs so they are use to it. HA what is that?
I can't wait till NS 1.1 comes out! Though I am not sure if it will help the HA.
However, offensive webbing is insanely good against heavy armor. A good battle gorge working with a lerk (umbra keeps the gorge alive) and a couple of fades can take out an entire HA squad pretty easily. As long as a gorge keeps the marines webbed up most of the time they get killed one by one by fade acid, lerk spikes, skulks, or even spammed offense turrets.
In my experience, the aliens will win the majority of HA vs 2 hive alien conflicts as long as they use offensive webbing. Does anyone care to suggest some tactics that effectively counter offensive webbing? The only thing I find effective is killing the gorge quickly, which can be very difficult if the gorge is any good.
I really think web needs to be nerfed in some fashion so that it is not so effective on offense. It is devastating when used offensively during running battles or when attacking marine bases or outposts.
A) 2 HMGs open fire on hive ONE AFTER ANOTHER. NOT at the same time (reload times could mean the team getting caught off guard with not enough firepower). This is usually more than enough to take down the hive very very quickly.
B) 1 HMG guarding the team (shooting skulks, lerks, gorges etc) This guy should never need to reload much. He is crouching behind the team and shooting any back stabbing aliens
If there is a gler, one hmg from A should be a designated welder. He does NOT take out his weapon until absolutely neccesay. He has his welder out and holds on to the fire button. The Gler should be lobbing nades at the hive. Therefore --- 1 HMG and 1 GL on hive, one HMG defending, one welder/HMG guy
If there is no gler, instead a shotty, marine from B) now has the role of welder. Shotty guy has the role of defending his team's ****. Therefore --- 2 HMG on hive, one Shotty defending, one welder/HMG guy
We had major battle againts Fades/OC's/skulks, lerks,gorges!. It was something i've never expirienced before, its hard to descripe it with words though.. well perhaps INSANE battle is suffient. The server where this battle took place can host 26 players..so you can get pretty good idea how huge battle it really was.
The outcome: server crashed! But until that it was best game ever.
EXACTLY!
You need Gl's on ocassion, not just HMGS, and maybe one shotgun guy won't be a problem either
Against alien teams with little concept of the finer points of the game, sure, HA's are cool. Against organised alien teams, with combined alien classes attacking, they can drop like flies (and very expensive little flies they are too).
So, after the initial JP rush I do form a HA batallion. That way the alien team will be gearing up for JP's, spending RP on OC's/Lerks. Then catching them off-guard will really win the day.
Also note that while your HA is out, you MUST, now this is essential, you MUST have at least one or TWO people with JP/welders at your base. When the skulks hear about a HA team they generally scatter and run, and the one place that they usually go to is your base. If you do not have base defenses then the aliens have a high chance of winning (Rines have no more ammo=death).
3 HMG's
2 GL's
3 LMG's
WTH!?!? 3 LMG's?!?!?
Yes! Three of them don't get a gun, only the standard-issue welder, and orders to ONLY use the welder and CONSTANTLY weld their teammates. 3 is the magic number. I'm usually up against Aleins that use the dreaded "teamwork hax" so 2 GL's are needed to keep the lerks and gorges away.
The real problem with HA is lack of flexibility though, it takes forever for them to get somewhere. Now I usually go with 2/2/3 HMG/GL/WELD and have 1 JP/HMG kill/guard res nodes and do all the other jobs (and getting phase gates up for the HA's). If I were to use only HA I would go back to the 3/2/3 setup though.
The biggest problem with HA is that eitheer people don't weld enough, and die, or they are ALL welding, meaning they aren't killing stuff. You might think that having 3 dedicated welders out of 8 reduces the firepower, in actuality it raises it, since the other 5 can concentrate on just shooting.
they (HA) are more of the "i phase to the place and defend it" and "ill phase to the place and seige the nearby hive"
I don't recall seeing a HA victory, as marines or aliens, when the aliens had 2 hives unless the aliens were... not very good. Seems wrong that the top tier tech of marines are as weak as they are vs. hive 2 aliens. The key problem is mobility I think... HA is just too damn slow with HMGs/GLs. While the slow moving tank force o' doom trudges towards a hive the aliens run around em in circles, perhaps even sending a few fades to shred their base. Phases are too easy to take down now.
They think they are all so invincible that they can split up their group, blast everything, totally ignoring the commander and then die one by one. I only give HA to marines I know and trust, and it works like a charm.
IRL mean? thx <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
if(teamwork=good)
{
commdrop(HA);
commdrop(HMG);
commdrop(welders);
gg=yes;
}
else
{
commdrop(JP);
commdrop(MedSpam);
commprays(formiracle);
n00bteam(blamescommforlosing);
gg=maybe;
}
cout<<gg;
skulks can attack marines who have HA.
but hard to attack JP marines.
(of course.. skulks have ranged-weapon named 'parasite' <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
but... when 4~5 marines have HA and welder, and welding each other (without using LMG or GL or HMG.
just welding... of course they need medpack support),
it's almost impossible to kill them
and.. they should attack hive with WELDER, not GUN.
of course... some hive position like CC... hive is too high to attack with welder.
like that.. do not use HA..... use JP to kill hive
give JP and HMG to 2~3 marines and send them all to that hive (like CC... where hive hanged up high)
and just attck.. do not land
(if they use JP just like TRIBES 2, they can do anything in the air)
just 2~3 clip of HMG... hive can't alive... =_=)
of course.. 2~3 marines shoot HMG to hive at once,
hive is dead when each marine shoot HMG just 1 clip...
HA and JP.. all have good point/bad point.
use is right purpose
jp's, welders and hmg are key to marine guerilla vent warfare
if you cant find a way through, go up and around :D
JPs are mobility devices - they make marines move very fast and hard to hit. It makes them very difficult for melee aliens to actually hit them (if you stay in the air). However, it does not improve armor, so a few well aimed acid rockets will bring them down, esp when they get caught in corridors with fades. Not good when fades appear, thats what.
HA are well armored, so they can probably take much more damage than JPs, and with welder they are invincible (almost). But they are sloooooow. Therefore, HAs must work in groups, and because HA research is 2x as expensive as JP, this makes it a late-game item. They are essentially fade killers, and without massive support by onos, they are definitely able to turn the tide of the game.
So, when you are in early game and the aliens have not claimed 2 hives, go with the JPs and hmgs (maybe shotties), but when the going gets tough, start researching HAs and prepare for longer-drawn assualts - but winning, nevertheless. JP guys should not go RAMBO, nor should HA guys. Try to have them complementing each other, and the game will turn in the marines' favor.
Also, to support a heavy army, try to have a strong economic base. Fortify every node you find, and you can replace any losses. In one of the games, we had 800 res before the aliens decided to F4 after we smashed silo. We lost gen in nothing once, but we did manage to refortify the place because we could afford to send HA after HA to the battle. So once again, get a strong economy! (This works in every other strat game I can imagine).
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=23328&hl=infamous' target='_blank'>The Infamous Welder Rush Revealed, Exclusive Photos Inside!</a>