2 Gorges Slower My @$$
Lt_Hendrickson
Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14761Members
Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14761Members
<div class="IPBDescription">If I calculated this right.</div> I spent a bit of time calculating this but on a 6 on 6 games if you were to have to gorges gorge when they hit 13 res and have one gorge ungorge sometime after dropping his second res tower while other saves for hive you can get: 5 res towers (includes start), 3 DCs , and a hive up and aproxiatly 99.5% give or take a percent of the time it takes 2 gorge. Basically thier the same time things like running to a tower far away or skulks dying rate will affect you more. This takes all into consideration except build time which is increases with two gorges. O and only other calculation mistake i made that i can think of is i forgot to compensate for non gorge res intake during evolving. Also times can be affected by amount of time teamate skulks spent dead or spend on upgrades.
Most peeps dont usually cap 4 res nodes first either but the gorges ability to cap 2 or 3 nodes faster does make up for the fact their two gorges.
So if a second gorge goes on your team don't whine thats the reason you lost. you lost cause you suck or the other team was just better.
2 gorges does mean 1 less fighter which is only affected is your skulks dont die alot.
2 gorges means 1 backup gorge
This post means nothing and im depressed cuase res system getting changed over soon anyways.
Most peeps dont usually cap 4 res nodes first either but the gorges ability to cap 2 or 3 nodes faster does make up for the fact their two gorges.
So if a second gorge goes on your team don't whine thats the reason you lost. you lost cause you suck or the other team was just better.
2 gorges does mean 1 less fighter which is only affected is your skulks dont die alot.
2 gorges means 1 backup gorge
This post means nothing and im depressed cuase res system getting changed over soon anyways.
Comments
There are solutions that obtain <i>most</i> of the time, but to every strategy there is a counter and yes: 2 gorges is one of the available counters.
But hey. If you want to froth at the mouth and claim that the same thing ALWAYS ALWAYS WORKS ARRR UAGLGLHLL, feel free.
-K
Someone said that it's been tested, and you can get up the 2nd hive 10 seconds faster with 2 gorges.
EDIT: same guy said that 3 gorges makes the economy break down totally tho, not very specific.
I like that.
But, yah. I wouldnt suggest this for servers with <8 ppl per team, otherwise it takes away one of those valuable skulks.
Thats exactly why i thought id point that out. Too many peeps use 2 gorges as an excuse for losing.
I personnally prefer the extra skulk still.
Omg love the fatteh's!!!!!!!!!!!
-OldManRipper
This may be viable but i dont really feel comfortable about having no gorges at any given period of time. When the second hive is building, the gorge should be capping one more RT and building defences at the second hive, so when the second hive goes up, he has enough for movements and defence for the first hive.
Having two gorgs more often than not is attributed to in-experienced players who just gorg and do nothing that helps anyone. Noobs gorging because they see it as something they haven't tried yet. Sadly they do it in the beginning of the start game when the start gorg is the most key important role that has to be filled with someone who knows what they are doing. Seeing that "other" gorg building off chams in remote spots of the map which has nothing to do for hive defense or even rt defenses, building and wasting res when its needed the most. Or a gorg which builds off chams FIRST in the main hive instead of def chams first. Off chams are not important in the main hive until a little later or unless your own team can't even keep the main hive alive. Now, your own skul team must beable to keep a hive clear for the gorg, clear any stray marine rts if possible because even one stray rt is quite a bit to the marines, they also must beable to hold the main hive. If your skulks can't do even one of these even with carp, then no matter how good a gorg you are. Your team is doomed... Fact, if your good at skulking you shouldn't be a gorg if possible, you would be more helpful to the team being a skulk. I know, being the gorg is much more fun in some ways than being a skulk. But, watching your team dying relentlessly accomplishing nothing really doesn't hold much fun when your limited to your team. Marines will take both hives and that leaves you with hardly anything to do except wait for the onslaught. The bottom line is, your team sucks and your not going to win if your players are not even half-way decent...
Just brings up horrible memory of two gorgs who where jumping around on each other trying to shoot each other doing nothing for around 2 or 3 mins. Finally, one team-mate asks what they were doing and they responded. "We have no idea what we are doing..." What made it even worse was the fact that they didn't even know the map(tanith), to compound it even more... BOTH had no idea how to set a res nod... Of course, they both got flamed and our team's moral went low... Luckily, our team had the best players on the aliens side and we kept the marines from leaving the base. So one of the team was directing the gorgs to rt points and slowly taking the map as well as instructing them on how to set things and stuff... It wasn't extremely hard to win but it did take around 25-30 minutes until they put up the second hive... Now, that was a good learning experience for those two people there who had the benefit of having the stacked team on their side. But, that game could have easily went sour if the marines had just a notch higher on the type of players they had...
There is no way you can have that hive defended enough in 7 minutes that a JP HMGer can't take it out.
You have to defend your first hive (often with several OCs) and then get a ton of res that you take to the next hive where you build OCs and DCs and then the hive.
It's all about not losing the first hive before you have the second.
I think it really is about getting that second hive as quickly as you can. Getting the most versitile unit for the aliens is perhaps the most important thing in order for the aliens to have an easier time, as well as umbra.
I think civman your plan is very risky unless your skulk team can hold them back that long for you to build defenses and rts in that amount of time. I could be wrong though which is not the first or last time.
The aliens should never need o towers in the original hive, just like marines should never need a TF in marine start in the early game. You have skulks to provide base defense. In fact, the aliens should be keeping the marines bottled up in their marine start and confined to one RP. That way the marines can't even get to your hive in the first place. It also gives your gorges free reign over the entire map, allowing them to build the second hive unmolseted.
Two gorges is more effective on some maps than others. Nothing is a good example of where two gorges can be helpful, since there are a bunch of resource nodes scattered about that two gorges can cap faster than one. On other smaller maps having an extra skulk running around will be more useful.
I also agree that if you're good at skulking, you shouldn't go gorge. Honestly, learning how to gorge is pretty easy. Being able to take down two or even three marines per death as a skulk is much more difficult, and much more useful to your team.
Cheers,
Alias20
Note: When i'm the one gorge with a decent skulk team, 3-4 res towers go up, then depending on ter situation, theres usually enough time (cos i got no res <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) to run back to the hive and by the time i get there drop 3 dcs immediately, then can stick around or grab another res/hive. Where does a second gorge fit into this? Only if I get killed or blocked by marines, and then I make it fairly clear to the team what the situation is. Of course if the marines go nuts this can all change <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->. :/
oh yeah, and once the second hive is building I usually have 4-5 res capped and plenty for everyone <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
One thing, I notice is that skulk teams dont on a large basis hunt down rt points. The alien team should always be wary of a commander who likes to take rt points. Periodically and methodically search the rt points around the map, you dont want that rt to be up more than it is worth. Marines live on res and depriving them of res and forcing them to live on only one makes it VERY hard to get upgrades and any weapons.
If there are marines guarding places like atmospheric in bast, DO NOT go after the marines first because they will usually just shoot you from that length away. If there is a length between you and the marines that give the marines ample time to shoot you down then don't bother with charging in on them. Places like bast is notorious for skulks losing Atmospheric. So what do you do? The marines are protecting the rt nodes there far far away on that platform ready to shoot you skulks comming from the feed water area. You do want to kill them, but remember that should NOT be your main objective. Instead, your target should be the rt nods there. Attack them first and if possible knock them out. You can get sufficient protection from the weapon fire by just staying behind the rt nodes chomping away at them. Another added plus is that since the marines can't kill you while your behind that rt, you force them to give up the advantage of distance. They have two choices, they can either stay back and allow you to complete your objective of taking down the rt, or they go in closer to kill you before you take the rt out. Either way, everything is in your favor. Marines aren't the only targets on the field you know... rts are much more important than taking out marines, MUCH more important.
A good place to drop that first d chamber is in the hive you plan on moving to next. Skulks defending that area can head back to that chamber for healing when the gorge is off getting res nodes. The next two chambers should be placed under the original hive. Marine rushes are becoming more common, and hives heal by themselves very slowly. This can help your team withstand that first JP rush.
When to place the d chambers depends on how well your team is doing, and how quickly the marines are taking in resources. If they can expand enough they will start to get weapon upgrades, making cara all the more essential. Generally, if the marines have secured a hive or a resource heavy area the d chambers should go up soon. If your skulks can keep them confined to marine start the second hive would be more useful.
Cheers,
Alias20
They wont cap out that much sooner.