Ok, if you want us to stop addressing what we think is wrong them, release v1.1 already! We have been waiting forever and you keep on telling us that we will like it when we play it. The problem is that the game isn't out and we can't play it! So release it already and then we will give you are after opinions. But as I have heard, RedDragon and most of his clan have already played v1.1 and this is already their playtesting opinion.
Oh last post, unless somome flames me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why dont we have this stupid (yes i thought it up) solution to end all our suffering: Make the lerk able to evolve into a support class(1.1) or a melee/support class(1.04). This way the team can choose which is more effictive at that point in the game (making the lerk uber support).
Anyways seriously consider putting lerk bite back into the game.
It seems like you guys are trying to do the compromising. I'm sorry, but it seems like for the most part it's final, I know you guys are excited about it, but, we need to finish it first.
But please, you may not realise this, but by perpetuating your philosphy of persistent behavior is not helping. We have heard what you feel about the change. However, persistence is unlikely to change anything as of now.
We know, we were just expressing what we felt about the changes and maybe you guys could take them into consideration instead of just pushing them aside.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+May 13 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ May 13 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Here's the deal for now.
We agree that while it may be different, we need to try it out.
Therefore, we will cease protesting and complaining until 1.1 is released, and then after, the discussion on how we feel about it will be open, mmm k ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes it might be annoying, but persistence is what gets you a job or whatever gets you ahead in life. persistence for something you feel needs to be said is totally fine. thisis how we think and feel.
No way I'm not gonna continue protesting. Sirus, you're just one of those pro-1.1-lerks dean talks about. Besides, I've not as of yet seen anyone say anything to contradict my original post.
Untill then, you're all wrong, and I've still got a valid point.
Hey, I got an idea... since people already like 1.04, for the most part, for 1.1 why don't we change so many things that the game is completely different from the last version!!! Wow, what a great idea!!
Oh God it's Aphon... drasctic imbalances (1.04) call for drastic measures (1.1) If you don't like all the changes in 1.1, live with it or operate a 1.04 server after 1.1 comes out.
The thing with the v1.04 lerk is that it allowed for people to be REALLY good at lerking. But why would you want to stop that? There are a lot of people good at marines with extreme accuracy. Would you like to take the marines ability to perpetually own? Ok so some people are reallly good at lerking, no need to nerf the lerk to make it not fun anymore. Besides, lerk was a VERY supportive class. It had umbra, spikes, and spores. All of which can be used effectively by anyone in a defensive role(not an offensive role). When needed, it umbras its fades and friends to protect them, not running off to go munch on someones legs. Taking away bite and putting on primal scream is really confusing. It is a 3rd hive skill which will probably not be used that much considering marines usually lock down at least one hive(if they don't then they lose fast).
<!--QuoteBegin--Skillzilla_+May 14 2003, 12:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Skillzilla_ @ May 14 2003, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh God it's Aphon... drasctic imbalances (1.04) call for drastic measures (1.1) If you don't like all the changes in 1.1, live with it or operate a 1.04 server after 1.1 comes out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I will definately probably host a v1.04 server but the reason we are stating this is that there are a lot of things that can be updated in v1.1 and they are all being done! Flayra is doing a great job with the mod. Bite is probably the only thing that I want to stay from v1.04. I don't like much of v1.04 right now because of the imbalances, but there are some good things about it that should be kept instead of tossed.
I won't make any comments on how having the lerk bite affects game balance, as I haven't played 1.1 myself. However, let me say this. I play NS because it is fun. I don't play because I win (often I don't), I play because it is fun. I would consider myself a hardcore biting lerk, as the combination of skill and pure action is unlike anything I have found anywhere else. For me, Lerking is simply the greatest thing I have ever found. I feel, right now, that taking this away from me would make NS significantly less enjoyable; even with the prospect of an early game onos. I don't mean to be a spoiled brat(which this will sound like), but this might cause me to stop playing NS alltogether. Flayra, kudos to you for making one of the greatest video game joys for me. I think I'll stop here ...
You Redemption guys are seriously underestimating the potential of spikes in 1.1. Perfect accuracy, no muzzle flash, no tracer, low volume... it's the closest thing to a sniper rifle you're going to see in NS. It isn't meant to be crowd control like Acid Rocket or a beast like the HMG, but a great weapon when you haven't been spotted. Whether that's because you've found the perfect dark corner by yourself or because melee teammates are distracting the marines by trying to eat them, spikes are silent death. As a support class, you can't solo groups of marines. You can soften them up with spore cloud or pick them off one by one with spikes, but the other classes are going to need to do dirty work to displace the enemy's position. It's a significant change, but a far cry from the game-ruining atrocity you're making it out to be. A skilled lerk will still be a great benefit to an organized team, which is all that matters.
Doesn't Firewater have a sig that could apply here? Something about newbies and veterans?
Having no idea how 1.1 Lerks work, this is my general opinion of support classes in games:
Pure support classes look neat and clean on paper, and I bet if rightly implemented they can be a decisive factor in professional play, but looking at my experience with other online games, they're doomed to play a marginal role in public servers.
Sure, now and then you pick the Medic in BF1942 (just as a recent example) and take delight in the occasional "ty" message from a teammate you healed, but you realize at the same time that you could have had a higher impact (and much more entertainment) if you picked Assault instead. Let's face it, fragging enemies and taking objectives is more satisfying than staying behind and supporting your team through various means. And if you pick Engineer it's usually to be selfish and repair the vehicle you're driving yourself. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fact of the matter is, your teammates often suck, and you'll need a class that is effective on its own. Pure support classes don't cut it then, especially not if they require particular coordination with the efforts of your teammates to make a difference.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You Redemption guys are seriously underestimating the potential of spikes in 1.1. Perfect accuracy, no muzzle flash, no tracer, low volume... it's the closest thing to a sniper rifle you're going to see in NS. It isn't meant to be crowd control like Acid Rocket or a beast like the HMG, but a great weapon when you haven't been spotted. Whether that's because you've found the perfect dark corner by yourself or because melee teammates are distracting the marines by trying to eat them, spikes are silent death. As a support class, you can't solo groups of marines. You can soften them up with spore cloud or pick them off one by one with spikes, but the other classes are going to need to do dirty work to displace the enemy's position. It's a significant change, but a far cry from the game-ruining atrocity you're making it out to be. A skilled lerk will still be a great benefit to an organized team, which is all that matters.
Doesn't Firewater have a sig that could apply here? Something about newbies and veterans? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure you know what a sniper rifle is.......
Spore Cloud deals around 1 damage per tick.......
Redemption guys are good lerks. Not to mention you haven't even TRIED a 1.1 lerk yet, yet you feel qualified to talk smack about reds skill with them. This is ridiculous. Stop, just Stop.
<!--QuoteBegin--MagiTek+May 14 2003, 12:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MagiTek @ May 14 2003, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You Redemption guys are seriously underestimating the potential of spikes in 1.1. Perfect accuracy, no muzzle flash, no tracer, low volume... it's the closest thing to a sniper rifle you're going to see in NS. It isn't meant to be crowd control like Acid Rocket or a beast like the HMG, but a great weapon when you haven't been spotted. Whether that's because you've found the perfect dark corner by yourself or because melee teammates are distracting the marines by trying to eat them, spikes are silent death. As a support class, you can't solo groups of marines. You can soften them up with spore cloud or pick them off one by one with spikes, but the other classes are going to need to do dirty work to displace the enemy's position. It's a significant change, but a far cry from the game-ruining atrocity you're making it out to be. A skilled lerk will still be a great benefit to an organized team, which is all that matters.
Doesn't Firewater have a sig that could apply here? Something about newbies and veterans? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> so when do i get my 12x zoom for my spikes? or wait i must use spores since i underestimate, sorry bro i play 1.1 as much as i can (seeing as server are kinda weak now as of late) and no i still havent gotten used to or able to play lerk productively for right now fades = win (if you have good fps) oni = ownage and gorges rule the res. skulks are skulks of course but the lerk has taken a massive back seat.
oh and i like the newbies and veterans thing. I'm not a pro-clan elititst kind of dude( the kind that Infinitum likes), but honestly friend [ReD] isnt newbie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just don't understand why everyone is so dead set on having bite stay. It'd be one thing if you were saying that spore cloud sucks and needs a better replacement weapon or something, but you are demanding that the lerk needs to be able to solo marines in close combat. The bottom line is that the lerk's support abilities have been beefed up at the cost of his melee abilities, end of story. The lerk is still a critical member of an alien team if only for umbra, so he won't be going anywhere.
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--[ReD]Dean+May 13 2003, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([ReD]Dean @ May 13 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now for the people who do not use m4a1/AWP because they can't, they love this change. That is the case with the vet/pt. Few of you people can actually use bite effectively, that’s why you’re hearing all this pro-1.1-lerk junk and not enough of anti-1.1-lerk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that the lerk losing bite sucks, i just don't see why you'd say that other people can't bite well, its not that hard dude
<!--QuoteBegin--MagiTek+May 14 2003, 01:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MagiTek @ May 14 2003, 01:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just don't understand why everyone is so dead set on having bite stay. It'd be one thing if you were saying that spore cloud sucks and needs a better replacement weapon or something, but you are demanding that the lerk needs to be able to solo marines in close combat. The bottom line is that the lerk's support abilities have been beefed up at the cost of his melee abilities, end of story. The lerk is still a critical member of an alien team if only for umbra, so he won't be going anywhere. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't understand that the lerk in v1.04 had enough support features built into it. Bite was the only really offensive weapon, now it doesn't have any offensive weapons. Umbra is really the only feature that makes it a defensive role. The spikes spores and primal scream really have nothing to offer unless in situations where lerks are really needed. In v1.04 they are need all the time, I don't know if this will be the same in v1.1
This thread has become nothing but flames. I won't name names, but quite a number of you have shown a sincere inability to have a civil discussion on this topic.
Added Lerk poll. If you care about this issue, <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=32261' target='_blank'>make your voice heard</a>.
Comments
Why dont we have this stupid (yes i thought it up) solution to end all our suffering:
Make the lerk able to evolve into a support class(1.1) or a melee/support class(1.04). This way the team can choose which is more effictive at that point in the game (making the lerk uber support).
Anyways seriously consider putting lerk bite back into the game.
But please, you may not realise this, but by perpetuating your philosphy of persistent behavior is not helping. We have heard what you feel about the change. However, persistence is unlikely to change anything as of now.
We agree that while it may be different, we need to try it out.
Therefore, we will cease protesting and complaining until 1.1 is released, and then after, the discussion on how we feel about it will be open, mmm k ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes it might be annoying, but persistence is what gets you a job or whatever gets you ahead in life. persistence for something you feel needs to be said is totally fine. thisis how we think and feel.
Untill then, you're all wrong, and I've still got a valid point.
-[ReD]RedDragon[USA]- (Pro-biter)
-Skillzilla (Nub-biter, but love it all the way)
I will definately probably host a v1.04 server but the reason we are stating this is that there are a lot of things that can be updated in v1.1 and they are all being done! Flayra is doing a great job with the mod. Bite is probably the only thing that I want to stay from v1.04. I don't like much of v1.04 right now because of the imbalances, but there are some good things about it that should be kept instead of tossed.
Doesn't Firewater have a sig that could apply here? Something about newbies and veterans?
Pure support classes look neat and clean on paper, and I bet if rightly implemented they can be a decisive factor in professional play, but looking at my experience with other online games, they're doomed to play a marginal role in public servers.
Sure, now and then you pick the Medic in BF1942 (just as a recent example) and take delight in the occasional "ty" message from a teammate you healed, but you realize at the same time that you could have had a higher impact (and much more entertainment) if you picked Assault instead. Let's face it, fragging enemies and taking objectives is more satisfying than staying behind and supporting your team through various means. And if you pick Engineer it's usually to be selfish and repair the vehicle you're driving yourself. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fact of the matter is, your teammates often suck, and you'll need a class that is effective on its own. Pure support classes don't cut it then, especially not if they require particular coordination with the efforts of your teammates to make a difference.
Doesn't Firewater have a sig that could apply here? Something about newbies and veterans? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure you know what a sniper rifle is.......
Spore Cloud deals around 1 damage per tick.......
Redemption guys are good lerks. Not to mention you haven't even TRIED a 1.1 lerk yet, yet you feel qualified to talk smack about reds skill with them. This is ridiculous. Stop, just Stop.
Doesn't Firewater have a sig that could apply here? Something about newbies and veterans? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so when do i get my 12x zoom for my spikes? or wait i must use spores since i underestimate, sorry bro i play 1.1 as much as i can (seeing as server are kinda weak now as of late) and no i still havent gotten used to or able to play lerk productively for right now fades = win (if you have good fps) oni = ownage and gorges rule the res. skulks are skulks of course but the lerk has taken a massive back seat.
oh and i like the newbies and veterans thing. I'm not a pro-clan elititst kind of dude( the kind that Infinitum likes), but honestly friend [ReD] isnt newbie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree that the lerk losing bite sucks, i just don't see why you'd say that other people can't bite well, its not that hard dude
You don't understand that the lerk in v1.04 had enough support features built into it. Bite was the only really offensive weapon, now it doesn't have any offensive weapons. Umbra is really the only feature that makes it a defensive role. The spikes spores and primal scream really have nothing to offer unless in situations where lerks are really needed. In v1.04 they are need all the time, I don't know if this will be the same in v1.1