FamDiaper-Wearing Dog On A BallJoin Date: 2002-02-17Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--Sunrise-+May 19 2003, 01:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sunrise- @ May 19 2003, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Insane+May 19 2003, 07:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ May 19 2003, 07:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sunrise: There -are- European PT's. I thought that had been made clear. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah there -are-... But how many ? 4-5? lets say 8? so few ... And u *really* think that's enough to make their thoughts prevail on US choices? (sorry for the poor english btw) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The point is <b>not</b> to make the game a multinational game. The point is to make NS a <b>fun</b> and balanced game. I very much doubt Europeans play it much differently to anywhere else in the world.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not a PT/Mod/Whatever. Still though, I don't see how saying that the majority of the members of this community were American is causing flames. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't say the majority of the members were American. You said the majority of the 'intelligent & mature' members were. The implication is....
Anyway, I don't want to cause a flame either. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
atm maybe not. But it could happen. Look TFC... European gamestyle is very very different of the US one. And choices made by tfc developpers literally killed european tfc. I dont want it to happen with NS that's all :/
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Im from New zealand and we dont have any playtesters ,ausies have 3 i think.
im in one of the ausie clans and we woudl love to rip 1.1 to piece's <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Pykmi+May 19 2003, 06:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pykmi @ May 19 2003, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It certainly is. Hard to believe that such racism is still going on in such a modern world that we live in.
:S
I just did a quick test in TASE, and I came to the conclusion that ~200 servers are european. About the same amount are northern american servers. Rest (about 40) are asian, african, australian servers.
So we are talking about pretty much the same amount of people as the american are. I would say about 40 % are american, about 40 % are european and the rest are the other parts of the world.
So, the only way this could be defended, would be the possible latency on american test servers, which I don't find a problem, because european people still should be able to play well in american servers.
Im highly offended by this.
BTW, UK IS part of Europe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry to hear that ignorance is still alive in this world <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm sorry that you don't get to play 1.1 like everybody else and feel special, but Flayra did what he did already, its set. You could better support him by not posting such controversial topics. This isn't a sign of American's thinking themselves superior. By the way, I feel confident that these American clans are the best in the world anyway. I've seen a few decent euro & aussie clans, but nothing spectacular. Show me a team that can beat us. I'd really love to see it.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperBOB+May 19 2003, 12:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperBOB @ May 19 2003, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fair enough if Flayra only wants Americans to test/play NS, but i really doubt this is the case. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Gah, read the thread again..
How about instead of generalising about one nationality or another people actually remain open minded. Instead of looking at the nationality of a server I will play it once to see what vibe I get. If I get a good one I go back, If I don't I don't <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> It's dependednt on the people on that server not the nationality <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can understand completely about the Timing in relation to matches being at GMT time and appreciate that reasoning for most of the PT's being American. I also disagree that people have differing playing styles based on where they come from and that there is a need for continents to be represented - that isn't the case. I'm happy for the PT's to be mostly American and keep doing the job they are doing. Good effort chaps.
I just quietly wish to point out that I have met some amazing and lovely people on UK NS servers and European ones. There are some good ones out there Fam. Try the Yo clan server or even our own <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> There are some good players out there with good attitude in the UK.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OMG let Flay choose who he wants to test HIS game. Yup, it's not the communities game so they have no right to claim representation AT ALL. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone has a right to an opinion, im just voicing mine, soon it will be voiced and this thread will die, dont read it if you cant say anything constructive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->im the finnish pt, the reason you see less is because of timezones, i mean its 2am when we pt here, and i think 9am for the aussies... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a lame arguament, infact it backs up what im saying <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> there could be a 16 man European playtester group testing on a Euro based server at reasonable Euro times.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All players with a member number, on this forum, below the 5000, which have been around for some time, should be allowed to test 1.1 before the full release. That should solve all your geographical complaints. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats not a bad idea, only you have to take into account the fact that lots of those people would be unable/unwilling to test 1.1.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sorry that you don't get to play 1.1 like everybody else and feel special, but Flayra did what he did already, its set. You could better support him by not posting such controversial topics. This isn't a sign of American's thinking themselves superior. By the way, I feel confident that these American clans are the best in the world anyway. I've seen a few decent euro & aussie clans, but nothing spectacular. Show me a team that can beat us. I'd really love to see it.
LMFAO, did you take lessons in stupidity or were you born this way <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> You start out by saying your not thinking yourself superior, and then claim you are the best clan/player in the world. Thanks for putting some humour into this thread, was getting a little dull.
Darnit, Fam stop copying me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All players with a member number, on this forum, below the 5000, which have been around for some time, should be allowed to test 1.1 before the full release. That should solve all your geographical complaints.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As much as I would like that because it means I would get to playtest, it is totally undesirable. Compensating for no longer active members, that would mean somewhere in the region of 4000 PT's. Impossible to organise and coordinate PT games and scrims etc. And also, with that number of PT's there is a serious risk of leaks.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
Memo from head office:
It should also be noted that whilst most eligible European testers are usually busy being delinquent in the pub or with women, US PTs are much more suitable and easy to come by as the entire continent seems to be represented by a bunch of repressed teenagers who don't drink and are scared of women. In case you're wondering I'm head playtester because women come to see me and as an ex-alcoholic, I can't realistically spend much time in the pub.
Playtester selection is a mixture of community visibility and dedication. Perhaps because European's are so much more subtle then their excitable American counterparts and thus they don't get noticed enough. Perhaps if NS becomes a full game or has a stand alone sequel (quite possible), then the UK/Euro team members will have to go. So from a development perspective, the more Americans the better. Or perhaps it's because playtests usually go on until 5AM GMT and not many people who would like to PT can make those hours. Also, communication plays a big part in PTing and someone needs to be able to speak American, the official language of the PT, which not all Europeans do. Yet.
Seriously though, there is no bias to PT selection. But because a lot of the core team are US or Canadian citizens, me and Flayra get more recommendations for US citizens. Also Gamesnet is the official NS network and most Europeans still seem to use Quakenet. It all adds up.
Should I actively search for European playtesters? No. You want in, you demonstrate why I should take you FIRST, then ask politely.
The requirements for a PT are as follows:
1) Communication skills
2) Understanding of game theory.
3) Gaming ability (you must be at least decent, shut it Erilane <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
4) Stable internet connection.
5) Commitment to NS.
6) A reasonable understanding of the HL engine.
The above are weighted differently. Some people are PTs because of 2) primarily. Me for example. Others are PTs because of 3) or 5). All PTs have all bar one of the above to a reasonable degree and rate extremely highly in one of the other areas.
And just as an observation:
The best way to not get selected is to email Flayra begging for it. He's a busy guy and he doesn't need it. If you absolutely need to email someone about it, email me. Just don't be suprised if I block you for wasting my time.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Heh, the first confirmed leak should be the first WONID permanently banned at code level from joining an NS server. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This thread will now be <span style='color:red'>***locked***</span> (use search) by an European admin who happens to be around for a good two years now and has not <i>once</i>, in any way, been treated biased by Flayra or another dev.
Try to bend your mind around the idea that people in here are not viewed for what their nationality is, but for how they behave. And before anyone starts about qnet and how it's not treated fairly: All official NS channels have been situated in Gamesnet since the very start, simply because it was easier to get support from them in the beginning. Get over it.
Comments
yeah there -are-... But how many ? 4-5? lets say 8? so few ... And u *really* think that's enough to make their thoughts prevail on US choices? (sorry for the poor english btw) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point is <b>not</b> to make the game a multinational game. The point is to make NS a <b>fun</b> and balanced game. I very much doubt Europeans play it much differently to anywhere else in the world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't say the majority of the members were American. You said the majority of the 'intelligent & mature' members were. The implication is....
Anyway, I don't want to cause a flame either. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>Evolve or Die</b>
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im from New zealand and we dont have any playtesters ,ausies have 3 i think.
im in one of the ausie clans and we woudl love to rip 1.1 to piece's <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
:S
I just did a quick test in TASE, and I came to the conclusion that ~200 servers are european. About the same amount are northern american servers. Rest (about 40) are asian, african, australian servers.
So we are talking about pretty much the same amount of people as the american are. I would say about 40 % are american, about 40 % are european and the rest are the other parts of the world.
So, the only way this could be defended, would be the possible latency on american test servers, which I don't find a problem, because european people still should be able to play well in american servers.
Im highly offended by this.
BTW, UK IS part of Europe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry to hear that ignorance is still alive in this world <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm sorry that you don't get to play 1.1 like everybody else and feel special, but Flayra did what he did already, its set. You could better support him by not posting such controversial topics. This isn't a sign of American's thinking themselves superior.
By the way, I feel confident that these American clans are the best in the world anyway. I've seen a few decent euro & aussie clans, but nothing spectacular. Show me a team that can beat us. I'd really love to see it.
Gah, read the thread again..
I can understand completely about the Timing in relation to matches being at GMT time and appreciate that reasoning for most of the PT's being American. I also disagree that people have differing playing styles based on where they come from and that there is a need for continents to be represented - that isn't the case. I'm happy for the PT's to be mostly American and keep doing the job they are doing. Good effort chaps.
I just quietly wish to point out that I have met some amazing and lovely people on UK NS servers and European ones. There are some good ones out there Fam. Try the Yo clan server or even our own <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> There are some good players out there with good attitude in the UK.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone has a right to an opinion, im just voicing mine, soon it will be voiced and this thread will die, dont read it if you cant say anything constructive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->im the finnish pt, the reason you see less is because of timezones, i mean its 2am when we pt here, and i think 9am for the aussies...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a lame arguament, infact it backs up what im saying <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> there could be a 16 man European playtester group testing on a Euro based server at reasonable Euro times.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All players with a member number, on this forum, below the 5000, which have been around for some time, should be allowed to test 1.1
before the full release. That should solve all your geographical complaints. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats not a bad idea, only you have to take into account the fact that lots of those people would be unable/unwilling to test 1.1.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sorry that you don't get to play 1.1 like everybody else and feel special, but Flayra did what he did already, its set. You could better support him by not posting such controversial topics. This isn't a sign of American's thinking themselves superior.
By the way, I feel confident that these American clans are the best in the world anyway. I've seen a few decent euro & aussie clans, but nothing spectacular. Show me a team that can beat us. I'd really love to see it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LMFAO, did you take lessons in stupidity or were you born this way <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
You start out by saying your not thinking yourself superior, and then claim you are the best clan/player in the world. Thanks for putting some humour into this thread, was getting a little dull.
O_o
Darnit, Fam stop copying me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All players with a member number, on this forum, below the 5000, which have been around for some time, should be allowed to test 1.1
before the full release. That should solve all your geographical complaints.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As much as I would like that because it means I would get to playtest, it is totally undesirable. Compensating for no longer active members, that would mean somewhere in the region of 4000 PT's. Impossible to organise and coordinate PT games and scrims etc. And also, with that number of PT's there is a serious risk of leaks.
It should also be noted that whilst most eligible European testers are usually busy being delinquent in the pub or with women, US PTs are much more suitable and easy to come by as the entire continent seems to be represented by a bunch of repressed teenagers who don't drink and are scared of women. In case you're wondering I'm head playtester because women come to see me and as an ex-alcoholic, I can't realistically spend much time in the pub.
Playtester selection is a mixture of community visibility and dedication. Perhaps because European's are so much more subtle then their excitable American counterparts and thus they don't get noticed enough. Perhaps if NS becomes a full game or has a stand alone sequel (quite possible), then the UK/Euro team members will have to go. So from a development perspective, the more Americans the better. Or perhaps it's because playtests usually go on until 5AM GMT and not many people who would like to PT can make those hours. Also, communication plays a big part in PTing and someone needs to be able to speak American, the official language of the PT, which not all Europeans do. Yet.
Seriously though, there is no bias to PT selection. But because a lot of the core team are US or Canadian citizens, me and Flayra get more recommendations for US citizens. Also Gamesnet is the official NS network and most Europeans still seem to use Quakenet. It all adds up.
Should I actively search for European playtesters? No. You want in, you demonstrate why I should take you FIRST, then ask politely.
The requirements for a PT are as follows:
1) Communication skills
2) Understanding of game theory.
3) Gaming ability (you must be at least decent, shut it Erilane <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
4) Stable internet connection.
5) Commitment to NS.
6) A reasonable understanding of the HL engine.
The above are weighted differently. Some people are PTs because of 2) primarily. Me for example. Others are PTs because of 3) or 5). All PTs have all bar one of the above to a reasonable degree and rate extremely highly in one of the other areas.
And just as an observation:
The best way to not get selected is to email Flayra begging for it. He's a busy guy and he doesn't need it. If you absolutely need to email someone about it, email me. Just don't be suprised if I block you for wasting my time.
Try to bend your mind around the idea that people in here are not viewed for what their nationality is, but for how they behave.
And before anyone starts about qnet and how it's not treated fairly: All official NS channels have been situated in Gamesnet since the very start, simply because it was easier to get support from them in the beginning. Get over it.