To all the forumites (especially those with newer joined dates, I know you didn't wait 10 months to join the forums so you could post after lurking that long), the playtesting has always been a love-hate thing here. Everyone was always mad that someone else was playing the 1.03 beta, or the 1.02, or (especially) 1.04, which eventually was being played everywhere. The people who played such "betas" often had complaints, some good, some totally, well, not smart to a large degree. These people posted these on the forums, and it would make the baby Jesus cry to see so many people harp Flayra for trying to test out some balance issues for 1.04. We actually punished him for releasing data early "54 res for a FADE? Blasphemy! I will never play NS again! Wahh Wahh" and such. What we've been seeing for the last few <b>months</b> is an increase in this harping/commenting/etc. for 1.1, and, although most ideas are just repeats of what was posted back in april but they're too lazy to look, we're doing the same thing to him about 1.1 as we did for any of the other releases. That makes us no better than PTs/Vets. As for the people who are vets (and PTs), and those who aren't. The PTs were chosen from a fairly "high" standard. The vets are taken from the "best of the best" so they will, theoretically, be able to play NS to the ground. Some of both aren't doing this. That's life. Life's unfair. Go cry about it. I'm not saying that them not playing is a good thing, I'm just saying you're watching an injustice and can do nothing about it. I reiterate: life's unfair (and I improperly used a colon, please don't kill me!) [endnote]I really enjoy reading the General Forums. Back 5 months ago, I wouldn't even visit any other forums. Now I find myself spending more and more time in OT, where there are less spamful posts, ironic as that may seem. If someone could post something new in the General forums about "if you have a good idea, keep it to yourself. If you know your idea is new and original, do a <b>search</b> for it. Tempbans will result from 3 reiterated ideas." I am really really really tired of seeing what some people want to do to the game they have never played nor can they understand how it works. Just frustrating, that's all.
Well lets just say the Forumites seem to have evolved.
No longer are we devouring the Screens and information released in an organised fashion.
Now it seems as soon as something is changed about 4 different threads seem to burst up about it. I don't mind one or two threads but four? Perhaps its because I'm old and crusty with NS nostalgia (As well as Flayritus and Bob) But everyone needs to calm down and just put a little trust in what the Dev Team are doing. Is it so hard just to have a little faith?
Frikk: I understand that you, and many other PT's/vets have various commitments and things to do, which is why I believe it is necessary to expand the testing numbers. You vets were recruited based on your twitch skill, dedication, and ability to exploit the h*ll out of any effective tactic you found; I just believe that more people should be recruited, leaving the clan requiments you had to endure behind.
Also, I do not believe we are 'p*ssed off' because we cant wait, I believe it is rather the irritation that so much potential testing/balancing time is WASTED with all these empty servers. The frustration is derrived from the fact that all us dedicated forum goers are getting scr*wed by a lack of testing on the PT/vet's behalf. If the test were conducted effeciently and it took another one year I could not complain; things were getting done, but delaying release because of the inactivity of testers is a simply rediculous notion.
Therefore ,I believe that it is a neccesary requiment that more testers be inducted.
PS: This is by no stretch of the mind an attemt to bash Vets/PT's at ALL, but rather an attempt to correct a problem. The problem being inactivity.
Just look at the amount of playtesters and vets that have replied in this thread, about 3 or 4. Also, there are literally as many playtesters and vets with 1.1 as almost half of the entire players on all of the NS servers.
No no Hob, I am not referring to IRC/Forum time, they would beat all of us hands down. I am referring to in-game activity, that is where there is a lack of participation.
ub3rbr0k3.... Do you have a issue with conversations and debates? Please save your condescending remarks/posts for yourself, I am trying to discuss an issue.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
ok, few quick things
1) Flay should pick PTs from dedicated forumgowers/irc ppl? well duh, where do you think he got all of the PTs from? Most of them have been around long before there was a NS to PT
2) Public beta? No! basicaly there would be no point to it. a) you can't all give feed back b/c it would be impossible to sift through the loads of junk to find the few golden nuggets (as opposed to the brown ones). b) Have only selec individuals be alowed to post in the PT forums but have 1.1 open? Thats just pointless. c) imagine trying to hold an ordered pt where they want specific things tested, now what hapenes if the lot of us could get in? bye bye order <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Guys remember that PTing meens dealing with loads of stupid imbalances (flay has been known to make typos in his code, thus making a full release pointless), finding bugs/exploits, having to WORK at it.
look, this isn't anywhere near as bad as it was before there was 1.0 all we had were tales from the front lines. WE HAVE A FULL WORKING GAME!
so instead of carping abought wanting to test 1.1 go PLAY 1.04 (and don't give me BS about unbalanced, there are plenaty of servers that run fun competative games)
oh well, thats all
~T
PS oh, and PICK ME PICK ME PICK ME!!!!!!! OH OH OH!!!!!!!oneoneone
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Jun 4 2003, 04:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Jun 4 2003, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ub3rbr0k3.... Do you have a issue with conversations and debates? Please save your condescending remarks/posts for yourself, I am trying to discuss an issue. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ah, no it's not about the debate, but about the first post... It's pointless.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Jun 4 2003, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Jun 4 2003, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frikk: I understand that you, and many other PT's/vets have various commitments and things to do, which is why I believe it is necessary to expand the testing numbers. You vets were recruited based on your twitch skill, dedication, and ability to exploit the h*ll out of any effective tactic you found; I just believe that more people should be recruited, leaving the clan requiments you had to endure behind.
Also, I do not believe we are 'p*ssed off' because we cant wait, I believe it is rather the irritation that so much potential testing/balancing time is WASTED with all these empty servers. The frustration is derrived from the fact that all us dedicated forum goers are getting scr*wed by a lack of testing on the PT/vet's behalf. If the test were conducted effeciently and it took another one year I could not complain; things were getting done, but delaying release because of the inactivity of testers is a simply rediculous notion.
Therefore ,I believe that it is a neccesary requiment that more testers be inducted.
PS: This is by no stretch of the mind an attemt to bash Vets/PT's at ALL, but rather an attempt to correct a problem. The problem being inactivity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> An empty pt/vet server in no way can = loss of time for testing the beta. During this free time clans are theory crafting better strategy in irc or summing up expierences on these forums *threads that you dont always see*. Personally I still have school, but I find the time to play 4-8 hours a day which does not even include forum posting times or clan theorycrafting times. I'm not really sure were you guys can get enough support for any argument by reading the beta forums, I guess letting your opinions known is fine although it doesnt seem to be very supportive to take one comment you hear in the beta forum and make a conclusion that nobody is using this testing time to its fullest extent.
Also note, at the time when monse was talking about empty servers they were being updated with the new 1.1n build which wasnt brought to monse's attention i believe. The only server namely FoR had 22/24.
lagger, I understand that you and many other PT's/vets are VERY dedicated and put in hours and hours a day, but from what I understand and what I have heard, this constitutes a very small minority of everyone in the playtest. I may have been misinformed about the server-fullness (for lack of a better word), but as I understand it progress is made through active people like yourself, not the other 150 PTs whom are 'absent'. These absent people are (unless I am completely wrong) expected to participate, and when you recieve less participation than required, progress is made, but at a slower rate.
All I ask is that the PT be expanded more so these time-requirements can be fulfilled. I personally do not expect to be asked to join, as I suspect there are several more active members in this community, so do not take this as an attempt to join beta; on the contrary, I merely wish for the release to be done as perfectly and effeciently as possible. Adding more people to the PT would help achieve that goal I believe.
Disclaimer: As I do not have access to private beta boards or server statistics, the very foundations of my arguements may not exist, therefore if that is so, please correct me.
<!--QuoteBegin--lagger+Jun 4 2003, 09:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Jun 4 2003, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also note, at the time when monse was talking about empty servers they were being updated with the new 1.1n build which wasnt brought to monse's attention i believe. The only server namely FoR had 22/24. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Sidenote - actually, you cannot update a server with a new version while the server is running. The files are in use. So people just weren't using the servers; they were up and empty, according to my gametiger pages. Clarifying.).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As I do not have access to private beta boards or server statistics, the very foundations of my arguements may not exist<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can relate to your concern Stung, as members of the NS community I think we all care to some degree about the development of the new version (and NS in general) but as you said, we just don't have enough to ring any alarm bells.
We're just going to have to trust that Flay, Grendel, and the rest of the development team has got enough resources to complete the task. I know Monse has voiced his displeasure at the lack of participation from a large percentage of PTs but we haven't heard anything from the Developers or PT Lead.
Perhaps at this stage of the beta test Flay doesn't need a large number of PTs.
Hopefully Flay and the Development team knows that if they are in need of <i>anything</i> from the NS community there are more then a few people ready and willing to help.
We are just going to have to trust that they know what they are doing. Ultimately we'll know the quality and thoroughness of this beta-test when v1.1 is released. If it ends up buggy and unbalanced maybe then we could re-examine what went wrong during the beta-test.
Not really worth playing on a server that hasnt updated to the new build <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Comments
What we've been seeing for the last few <b>months</b> is an increase in this harping/commenting/etc. for 1.1, and, although most ideas are just repeats of what was posted back in april but they're too lazy to look, we're doing the same thing to him about 1.1 as we did for any of the other releases. That makes us no better than PTs/Vets.
As for the people who are vets (and PTs), and those who aren't. The PTs were chosen from a fairly "high" standard. The vets are taken from the "best of the best" so they will, theoretically, be able to play NS to the ground. Some of both aren't doing this. That's life. Life's unfair. Go cry about it.
I'm not saying that them not playing is a good thing, I'm just saying you're watching an injustice and can do nothing about it. I reiterate: life's unfair (and I improperly used a colon, please don't kill me!)
[endnote]I really enjoy reading the General Forums. Back 5 months ago, I wouldn't even visit any other forums. Now I find myself spending more and more time in OT, where there are less spamful posts, ironic as that may seem. If someone could post something new in the General forums about "if you have a good idea, keep it to yourself. If you know your idea is new and original, do a <b>search</b> for it. Tempbans will result from 3 reiterated ideas." I am really really really tired of seeing what some people want to do to the game they have never played nor can they understand how it works. Just frustrating, that's all.
No longer are we devouring the Screens and information released in an organised fashion.
Now it seems as soon as something is changed about 4 different threads seem to burst up about it. I don't mind one or two threads but four? Perhaps its because I'm old and crusty with NS nostalgia (As well as Flayritus and Bob) But everyone needs to calm down and just put a little trust in what the Dev Team are doing. Is it so hard just to have a little faith?
I understand that you, and many other PT's/vets have various commitments and things to do, which is why I believe it is necessary to expand the testing numbers. You vets were recruited based on your twitch skill, dedication, and ability to exploit the h*ll out of any effective tactic you found; I just believe that more people should be recruited, leaving the clan requiments you had to endure behind.
Also, I do not believe we are 'p*ssed off' because we cant wait, I believe it is rather the irritation that so much potential testing/balancing time is WASTED with all these empty servers. The frustration is derrived from the fact that all us dedicated forum goers are getting scr*wed by a lack of testing on the PT/vet's behalf. If the test were conducted effeciently and it took another one year I could not complain; things were getting done, but delaying release because of the inactivity of testers is a simply rediculous notion.
Therefore ,I believe that it is a neccesary requiment that more testers be inducted.
PS: This is by no stretch of the mind an attemt to bash Vets/PT's at ALL, but rather an attempt to correct a problem. The problem being inactivity.
Also, there are literally as many playtesters and vets with 1.1 as almost half of the entire players on all of the NS servers.
1) Flay should pick PTs from dedicated forumgowers/irc ppl? well duh, where do you think he got all of the PTs from? Most of them have been around long before there was a NS to PT
2) Public beta? No! basicaly there would be no point to it.
a) you can't all give feed back b/c it would be impossible to sift through the loads of junk to find the few golden nuggets (as opposed to the brown ones).
b) Have only selec individuals be alowed to post in the PT forums but have 1.1 open? Thats just pointless.
c) imagine trying to hold an ordered pt where they want specific things tested, now what hapenes if the lot of us could get in? bye bye order <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Guys remember that PTing meens dealing with loads of stupid imbalances (flay has been known to make typos in his code, thus making a full release pointless), finding bugs/exploits, having to WORK at it.
look, this isn't anywhere near as bad as it was before there was 1.0 all we had were tales from the front lines. WE HAVE A FULL WORKING GAME!
so instead of carping abought wanting to test 1.1 go PLAY 1.04 (and don't give me BS about unbalanced, there are plenaty of servers that run fun competative games)
oh well, thats all
~T
PS oh, and PICK ME PICK ME PICK ME!!!!!!! OH OH OH!!!!!!!oneoneone
ah, no it's not about the debate, but about the first post... It's pointless.
Shoulda quoted.
I understand that you, and many other PT's/vets have various commitments and things to do, which is why I believe it is necessary to expand the testing numbers. You vets were recruited based on your twitch skill, dedication, and ability to exploit the h*ll out of any effective tactic you found; I just believe that more people should be recruited, leaving the clan requiments you had to endure behind.
Also, I do not believe we are 'p*ssed off' because we cant wait, I believe it is rather the irritation that so much potential testing/balancing time is WASTED with all these empty servers. The frustration is derrived from the fact that all us dedicated forum goers are getting scr*wed by a lack of testing on the PT/vet's behalf. If the test were conducted effeciently and it took another one year I could not complain; things were getting done, but delaying release because of the inactivity of testers is a simply rediculous notion.
Therefore ,I believe that it is a neccesary requiment that more testers be inducted.
PS: This is by no stretch of the mind an attemt to bash Vets/PT's at ALL, but rather an attempt to correct a problem. The problem being inactivity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An empty pt/vet server in no way can = loss of time for testing the beta. During this free time clans are theory crafting better strategy in irc or summing up expierences on these forums *threads that you dont always see*. Personally I still have school, but I find the time to play 4-8 hours a day which does not even include forum posting times or clan theorycrafting times. I'm not really sure were you guys can get enough support for any argument by reading the beta forums, I guess letting your opinions known is fine although it doesnt seem to be very supportive to take one comment you hear in the beta forum and make a conclusion that nobody is using this testing time to its fullest extent.
Also note, at the time when monse was talking about empty servers they were being updated with the new 1.1n build which wasnt brought to monse's attention i believe. The only server namely FoR had 22/24.
All I ask is that the PT be expanded more so these time-requirements can be fulfilled. I personally do not expect to be asked to join, as I suspect there are several more active members in this community, so do not take this as an attempt to join beta; on the contrary, I merely wish for the release to be done as perfectly and effeciently as possible. Adding more people to the PT would help achieve that goal I believe.
Disclaimer: As I do not have access to private beta boards or server statistics, the very foundations of my arguements may not exist, therefore if that is so, please correct me.
(Sidenote - actually, you cannot update a server with a new version while the server is running. The files are in use. So people just weren't using the servers; they were up and empty, according to my gametiger pages. Clarifying.).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As I do not have access to private beta boards or server statistics, the very foundations of my arguements may not exist<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can relate to your concern Stung, as members of the NS community I think we all care to some degree about the development of the new version (and NS in general) but as you said, we just don't have enough to ring any alarm bells.
We're just going to have to trust that Flay, Grendel, and the rest of the development team has got enough resources to complete the task. I know Monse has voiced his displeasure at the lack of participation from a large percentage of PTs but we haven't heard anything from the Developers or PT Lead.
Perhaps at this stage of the beta test Flay doesn't need a large number of PTs.
Hopefully Flay and the Development team knows that if they are in need of <i>anything</i> from the NS community there are more then a few people ready and willing to help.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
We are just going to have to trust that they know what they are doing. Ultimately we'll know the quality and thoroughness of this beta-test when v1.1 is released. If it ends up buggy and unbalanced maybe then we could re-examine what went wrong during the beta-test.
Does this sound somewhat reasonable?