what i'm still wondering is why mannable turrets are anathema to the dev team. It seems that what the HMG would be *is* basically a mannable, mobile turret (well, it doesn't fire by itself like a turret).
Alot of good ideas here, but i really prefer the idea of damage based on range...the farther out, the more damage(To a limit of course...i mean, after a WHILE it's gonna start causing less) It's also realistic.....if you look at real weapons, this mostly applies to Sniper Rifiles, but it also happens with high power automatic weapons too, wich is what the HMG is.....the Bullet is fired with such a huge amout of black powder(Or.....magnetec velocity in NS? lol) anyway, it's going so fast that in close range it just punctures a small hole in the victim....even on a HUMAN this makes it MUCH less devvestating than expanding/tumbling bullets, but ESPICIALLY against the Khara, it would seem to me that they(In standard Sci-Fi/Horror movie fassion) can probably still make an effort to attack even with limbs missing, so a small hole in them would hurt much, whereas at distance the bullet is starting to slow down, ho when it hits something inside the alien it may bounce around, causing MUCH more damage....the Pistol, and LMG would be more powerful at closer range cause they dont have quite the velocity on them, so it ricochets off aliens bones even at close range......and the Shotgun and GL are just totally difrent anyway......but like i said, i like alot of these ideas, but range-dependant dmg seems best to me
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
The difference is, having the immobile/spinup fixes more problems than just the close range capability. It stops people from ramboing off, and it gives the HMG a *distinct* feel. It also requires skill to use it properly from that point on, as which happens with the other weapons to a greater or lesser degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Jun 10 2003, 03:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Jun 10 2003, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->HL supports mouse sensitivity tweaking, so setting up a script to work around a turn speed limitation would be easy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->How is this prevented in DOD or TFC? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For DoD, the MG deploy mouse speed is hardcoded at 3 or something low like that. Scripts or different sensitivity ratings have no effect.
I think hardcoding the sens for HMG might be a good idea, you are sacrifising manouverability for firepower.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Jun 10 2003, 05:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jun 10 2003, 05:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The difference is, having the immobile/spinup fixes more problems than just the close range capability. It stops people from ramboing off, and it gives the HMG a *distinct* feel. It also requires skill to use it properly from that point on, as which happens with the other weapons to a greater or lesser degree. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, i understand pretty much any changes are going to come from a balance/teamplay perspective, not a "Coolness" standpoint...i really do like alot of the stuff you mentioned...although if you make it on a Bipod i think it should still be useable as a hand-held weapon...like the BAR in DOD is now....you can use it standard, but its alot better on the bipod
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gyrojet HMG. (Not sure if HL supports this) Damage is proportional to the distance travelled, to a given point where it drops back down again. Making the bullets very weak in close, but powerful down a hallway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You beat me to it Talesin.
This would be the best path for the HMG to follow. Would serve other great uses.
Two problems I have with the gyrojet (why are we calling it that?). One, it's counter-intuitive. Two, I'd prefer to stay away from artificial balances like that. (but that's not up to me)
But this is good. We've laid out most of the solutions and discussed the advantages and disadvantages of most of those. Now it's up to Flayra, really.
<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=34703&st=0&' target='_blank'>Check here for a solution to the HMG problem!</a></span>
Everything but the mirrored GL damage is excellent. (it's unintuitive... word of the day... when things don't happen the way you;d expect, people get confused) Much of it is remarkably similar to the things we've already discussed here. That must mean something. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Who cares about how realistic it is? If you don't you just get massive spam protect his allies from a distance.
Not good. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's very exploitable to have it do otherwise.
The other alternative would be to make it so it dealt FF, but then you can get llama's beating the hell out of their team, and if no admin is around... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
As someone metioned earlier, why not add mass to objects and implement momentum? If I turn quickly with the HMG or GL then the momentum will carry me further than I intended and I'll probably overshoot my target. Have armour types affect the turn rate (heavier armour = slower turn rate). The HA/HMG guy becomes a tank who can't hit a skulk, and the pistol guy (no armour) is the point defense.
Of course, this would probably annoy everyone. We all spent the time to tweak our mouse sensitivity for optimum performance, and we expect it to move that way all the time. If the turning was sluggish due to HA, or we kept turning due to the weight of the HMG we'd probably get a trifle upset. Until we worked out the technique.
A spin up is pretty useless imho unless when you start to spin up it cuts your speed in half. When I played tfc I was a HW almost everytime infact I HW'ed for my clan and I would constantly rev my ac so I could catch that scout mid air with some bullets before it hit the ground. So if you had half a brain you'd just rev this thing over and over and not like you need to be stealthy at all since you'll probably be stomping around in ha and they can here you coming across the map
Comments
It's also realistic.....if you look at real weapons, this mostly applies to Sniper Rifiles, but it also happens with high power automatic weapons too, wich is what the HMG is.....the Bullet is fired with such a huge amout of black powder(Or.....magnetec velocity in NS? lol) anyway, it's going so fast that in close range it just punctures a small hole in the victim....even on a HUMAN this makes it MUCH less devvestating than expanding/tumbling bullets, but ESPICIALLY against the Khara, it would seem to me that they(In standard Sci-Fi/Horror movie fassion) can probably still make an effort to attack even with limbs missing, so a small hole in them would hurt much, whereas at distance the bullet is starting to slow down, ho when it hits something inside the alien it may bounce around, causing MUCH more damage....the Pistol, and LMG would be more powerful at closer range cause they dont have quite the velocity on them, so it ricochets off aliens bones even at close range......and the Shotgun and GL are just totally difrent anyway......but like i said, i like alot of these ideas, but range-dependant dmg seems best to me
For DoD, the MG deploy mouse speed is hardcoded at 3 or something low like that. Scripts or different sensitivity ratings have no effect.
I think hardcoding the sens for HMG might be a good idea, you are sacrifising manouverability for firepower.
Yeah, i understand pretty much any changes are going to come from a balance/teamplay perspective, not a "Coolness" standpoint...i really do like alot of the stuff you mentioned...although if you make it on a Bipod i think it should still be useable as a hand-held weapon...like the BAR in DOD is now....you can use it standard, but its alot better on the bipod
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You beat me to it Talesin.
This would be the best path for the HMG to follow. Would serve other great uses.
but tripod no. it'd make you USELESS against fade/oni.
gyrojet would be the best solution imho. that way the shotgun would be the exact opposite of hmg.
So even skulks can take it out at close combat when there are no shottys/lmgs near.
But this is good. We've laid out most of the solutions and discussed the advantages and disadvantages of most of those. Now it's up to Flayra, really.
Not good. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's very exploitable to have it do otherwise.
The other alternative would be to make it so it dealt FF, but then you can get llama's beating the hell out of their team, and if no admin is around... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course, this would probably annoy everyone. We all spent the time to tweak our mouse sensitivity for optimum performance, and we expect it to move that way all the time. If the turning was sluggish due to HA, or we kept turning due to the weight of the HMG we'd probably get a trifle upset. Until we worked out the technique.
It's all hypothetical.
When I played tfc I was a HW almost everytime infact I HW'ed for my clan and I would constantly rev my ac so I could catch that scout mid air with some bullets before it hit the ground. So if you had half a brain you'd just rev this thing over and over and not like you need to be stealthy at all since you'll probably be stomping around in ha and they can here you coming across the map
Just my .02