<!--QuoteBegin--godzilla21+Jun 15 2003, 05:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (godzilla21 @ Jun 15 2003, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Jun 15 2003, 03:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Jun 15 2003, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why don't you just make it so marines can't build with in a certain radius of the hive (except res). That way they can't build a base there but the radius won't be large enough to prevent the marines from putting a siege on the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Disabling marines to have 2 CC is better than doing such a thing. If they cant have 2 CC, they cant relocate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That would prevent lockdown but it would also make marines much worse. It's a bad idea.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Jun 15 2003, 06:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Jun 15 2003, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--godzilla21+Jun 15 2003, 05:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (godzilla21 @ Jun 15 2003, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Jun 15 2003, 03:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Jun 15 2003, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why don't you just make it so marines can't build with in a certain radius of the hive (except res). That way they can't build a base there but the radius won't be large enough to prevent the marines from putting a siege on the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Disabling marines to have 2 CC is better than doing such a thing. If they cant have 2 CC, they cant relocate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would prevent lockdown but it would also make marines much worse. It's a bad idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why would that prevent lockdown? Marines can connect their base and Hive through phase gate. They can still lockdown a Hive even if they cant have 2 CC. CC should be the sturucture that Marines must defend at all cost.
ide like 2 c 2 things.. the onos being dependant on 2 hives, and limiting the number of onos to the number of players on the team..
at twohives eg. 6 karaa players means a max of 2 onos/ 9 karaa players mean 3 onos..etc
but when there are 3 hives eg. 6 karaa players a max of 4 onos/ 9 karaa players max of 6 onos..etc
..this may lead to disputes over who is going to be the onos..but then it might naturaly go to the better plkayers seing as theyll have more res from kills....id say its at least worth a try..
If marines don't relocate then they are effectively dead. I once went into this game where the marines stayed at base but locked down two hives with TF and PG in each. First me and these few guys (it was like 6v4, marines with the 6) just destroyed those lockdowns. They kept coming back. But they were still stretched out pretty thin between the base and the two outposts.
All I did with a few guys was attack their base. They were all anticipating us attacking the outposts that they forgot about base. They put up mines and turrets and that's it. We destroyed IP and armory. If what you propose had been implemented then comm wouldn't have been able to drop a CC in one of the outposts. So a group of outnumbered aliens with one hive can beat marines who have heavy armored hmg and two hives locked down. That just doesn't make any sense and the game would be unbalanced.
EDIT: By the way, after we destroyed the base the game still lasted a while with their whole team having heavy armor and hmg. But that didn't help them because we were sneaky fades. We won. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Onos is a game ender on public servers,No one plans anything,no one wants to do anything...the only time that i didnt win as onos was when me n my friend organized an attack on phone,Umbra + Acid Rocket....for 5 minutes we were struggling to win on 2 hives...when i came in with umbra all the aliens starting rushing in the base and i umbra'd everywhere...Teamwork is essential yes,but i dont see it often these days...
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Jun 15 2003, 09:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Jun 15 2003, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ah, thank you everyone for reminding me why I don't usually participate in these type of discussions in this forum. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You think you are any better? You said the Onos wasn't designed as a game ender with a great deal of certainty. Now that may very well be true, but I don't remeber Flay ever saying that, and due to the fact that generally the onos <b>is</b> a game ender, I would assume it was intended to be.
Of course, I am now sure everyone knows I am no better then you, but it still goes, discussion on this forum isn't the best <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hive lockdowns in 1.04 are the most boring games.... I would rather be JP rushed as it's over and done with!
If this stays in 1.1 I can see a lot of people just not even bothering as the ability to play any alien at hive 1 IS the main reason people are excited about v1.1. You will just alienate the community if it stays.
The PTs/vets whose opinions I have come to appreciate for being well thought out both in theory and practise are very against this move - even after testing. So don't shoot yourself in the foot.
You and me baby, lets do it like mammals, lets do it like they do at the discovery channel, You and me baby, lets complain all day and night, lets reply each other with self congratulating posts, making us above all others, you and me baby, why dont we give constructive ideas, why dont we stop fighting each other, why dont we make up with lots of <b><3</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jun 16 2003, 01:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 16 2003, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>It eliminates the purpose of using different abilities!</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, this is the main problem with 1.0x hive model. It's not the two hive lockdowns but the fact, that it renders all the early abilities useless(just the same way you never see 1 and 2 lvl traits used).
I liked this solution:
Kharaa get not only abilities but also generally stronger when they gain more hives. This would be a happy medium between 1.1 and 1.0 hive model. Hives would be very important(more than in early 1.1betas) but not completely crucial(like in 1.0) for Kharaa.
What I'm meaning is; Kharaa would have more health and armor with more hives. Skulk 0/1hive: 60/10 Skulk 2hives: 70/15 Skulk 3hives: 80/20
...or so.
Edit: Bah, just read more of this thread and others have proposed this too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hive 1 300 hp 100 armour cara| 200 hive 2 400 hp 125 armour cara| 275 hive 3 500 hp 150 armour cara| 350 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's a good idea to base health and given armor on number of hives but I wouldn't that with upgrades. We are already limited to number of upgrades we can get based on number of hives. So I vote: Leave upgrades alone!
Comments
Disabling marines to have 2 CC is better than doing such a thing. If they cant have 2 CC, they cant relocate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would prevent lockdown but it would also make marines much worse. It's a bad idea.
Another main reason I don't see the old 1.04 hive situation working is because of this:
<b>It eliminates the purpose of using different abilities!</b>
The new hive system really put importance on giving the different abilities importace...
Disabling marines to have 2 CC is better than doing such a thing. If they cant have 2 CC, they cant relocate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would prevent lockdown but it would also make marines much worse. It's a bad idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would that prevent lockdown?
Marines can connect their base and Hive through phase gate. They can still lockdown a Hive even if they cant have 2 CC.
CC should be the sturucture that Marines must defend at all cost.
at twohives
eg. 6 karaa players means a max of 2 onos/ 9 karaa players mean 3 onos..etc
but when there are 3 hives
eg. 6 karaa players a max of 4 onos/ 9 karaa players max of 6 onos..etc
..this may lead to disputes over who is going to be the onos..but then it might naturaly go to the better plkayers seing as theyll have more res from kills....id say its at least worth a try..
All I did with a few guys was attack their base. They were all anticipating us attacking the outposts that they forgot about base. They put up mines and turrets and that's it. We destroyed IP and armory. If what you propose had been implemented then comm wouldn't have been able to drop a CC in one of the outposts. So a group of outnumbered aliens with one hive can beat marines who have heavy armored hmg and two hives locked down. That just doesn't make any sense and the game would be unbalanced.
EDIT: By the way, after we destroyed the base the game still lasted a while with their whole team having heavy armor and hmg. But that didn't help them because we were sneaky fades. We won. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You think you are any better? You said the Onos wasn't designed as a game ender with a great deal of certainty. Now that may very well be true, but I don't remeber Flay ever saying that, and due to the fact that generally the onos <b>is</b> a game ender, I would assume it was intended to be.
Of course, I am now sure everyone knows I am no better then you, but it still goes, discussion on this forum isn't the best <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If this stays in 1.1 I can see a lot of people just not even bothering as the ability to play any alien at hive 1 IS the main reason people are excited about v1.1. You will just alienate the community if it stays.
The PTs/vets whose opinions I have come to appreciate for being well thought out both in theory and practise are very against this move - even after testing. So don't shoot yourself in the foot.
Hive 1 Onos 200 hp
Hive 2 Onos 300 hp
Hive 3 Onos 400 hp
Anything like this been suggested before ? It seems one way in which to balance the more powerful creatures.
*Drums start in the background*
You and me baby, lets do it like mammals, lets do it like they do at the discovery channel,
You and me baby, lets complain all day and night, lets reply each other with self congratulating posts,
making us above all others, you and me baby, why dont we give constructive ideas, why dont we stop fighting each other,
why dont we make up with lots of <b><3</b>
hive 1 300 hp 100 armour cara| 200
hive 2 400 hp 125 armour cara| 275
hive 3 500 hp 150 armour cara| 350
Yes, this is the main problem with 1.0x hive model. It's not the two hive lockdowns but the fact, that it renders all the early abilities useless(just the same way you never see 1 and 2 lvl traits used).
I liked this solution:
Kharaa get not only abilities but also generally stronger when they gain more hives. This would be a happy medium between 1.1 and 1.0 hive model. Hives would be very important(more than in early 1.1betas) but not completely crucial(like in 1.0) for Kharaa.
What I'm meaning is; Kharaa would have more health and armor with more hives.
Skulk 0/1hive: 60/10
Skulk 2hives: 70/15
Skulk 3hives: 80/20
...or so.
Edit: Bah, just read more of this thread and others have proposed this too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hive 1 300 hp 100 armour cara| 200
hive 2 400 hp 125 armour cara| 275
hive 3 500 hp 150 armour cara| 350 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a good idea to base health and given armor on number of hives but I wouldn't that with upgrades. We are already limited to number of upgrades we can get based on number of hives. So I vote: Leave upgrades alone!