Something A Little Disturbing
DarkFrost
Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">"CS has been totally dumbed down..."</div> quote from a vet
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, CS has been totally dumbed down so that any yuppie can learn to play it well. NS 1.04 required a lot of skill.. 1.1 still takes a good amount of skill.... we'll see how it turns out when it gets released to the pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is 1.1 a lower skill level than 1.04.
Please dont go down this road if it is, you are playing into the other games hands with thier communities view on HL being the babys game, the one where any tom, **** or harry can pick up and have mastered in a day.
Please i have played HL online since there was a HL, i had to learn how to play, it took months to master HLDM, then another long term to master TFCs quirks. We didnt care if the game played perfectly, we had fun. Right now in 1.04 i am having fun, because of all the little quirks the game has, remove these for 1.1 fair enough, you want a semi realistic mod, BUT from what i have seen you are removing alot of the skill from the alien team,
for example, the skulk armour. 1.04 skulk is fine, people will argue this, but skulk and stock marine are pretty much even just now.
You have changed blink to this silly run about as fast as you can thing while invisible, (ala predator tbh)
from what it was before, it required skill to teleport, seeing where you would end up, but then traveling there at an instant, sometimes you blinked inside a marine, unfortunately (in my case) we both died, and neither death had the blink symbol (id have loved that in my sig <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Any lerk can sit and shoot, and suport in 1.04, it is VERY easy for a lerk player to NEVER die a whole game.
But you have removed the skill side of the lerk also (i imagine its armours increased also?) even with bite, the majority of lerks (worth thier cost in res) will umbra those fades, will cover the advance of the skulks, but with bite, the lerk can support an altogether more important species, the gorge.
What i had initially thought of 1.1 was (from what id heard here and in other places) that the skill level was going to be essentially the same, but with the need for hives taken away, and a shifty about of the abilities of each alien.
Now it looks like its been CSified, nubified, MADE TOO DAMN EASY!
I put off a 100% move to quake3 when NS was released, because of the skill it required to play it. Please I whole heartedly beg you, dont make the same mistakes the CS team made, i mean yeah LOADS of people play it, BUT where did all the cheats orriginate, what mod was hacked the most, what mod has (a number i saw somewhere, not sure, will look into it again) 40% of its clientbase are cheats. CS does.
WHY
Because the team made the game easy, which in turn brought all the kids in. This isnt entirely a bad thing, BUT because of their maturity issues, kids do not like losing AT ALL. We as adults see it as a game, win or lose it will be fun (and believe it or not CS WAS fun, i know its hard to believe), but these kids came in and then the big cheats began to spring up, 10 year olds who joined us in CS 1.0 were kicking our arses, even tho we had played since the first beta, and it was their 3rd or 4th game of it.
I dont want to see NS go down this road. I have never loved a mod so much since TF and TFC, (Both still have a very high skilled player base) Please let NS stay skilled.
A worried Fan/
Frost
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, CS has been totally dumbed down so that any yuppie can learn to play it well. NS 1.04 required a lot of skill.. 1.1 still takes a good amount of skill.... we'll see how it turns out when it gets released to the pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is 1.1 a lower skill level than 1.04.
Please dont go down this road if it is, you are playing into the other games hands with thier communities view on HL being the babys game, the one where any tom, **** or harry can pick up and have mastered in a day.
Please i have played HL online since there was a HL, i had to learn how to play, it took months to master HLDM, then another long term to master TFCs quirks. We didnt care if the game played perfectly, we had fun. Right now in 1.04 i am having fun, because of all the little quirks the game has, remove these for 1.1 fair enough, you want a semi realistic mod, BUT from what i have seen you are removing alot of the skill from the alien team,
for example, the skulk armour. 1.04 skulk is fine, people will argue this, but skulk and stock marine are pretty much even just now.
You have changed blink to this silly run about as fast as you can thing while invisible, (ala predator tbh)
from what it was before, it required skill to teleport, seeing where you would end up, but then traveling there at an instant, sometimes you blinked inside a marine, unfortunately (in my case) we both died, and neither death had the blink symbol (id have loved that in my sig <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Any lerk can sit and shoot, and suport in 1.04, it is VERY easy for a lerk player to NEVER die a whole game.
But you have removed the skill side of the lerk also (i imagine its armours increased also?) even with bite, the majority of lerks (worth thier cost in res) will umbra those fades, will cover the advance of the skulks, but with bite, the lerk can support an altogether more important species, the gorge.
What i had initially thought of 1.1 was (from what id heard here and in other places) that the skill level was going to be essentially the same, but with the need for hives taken away, and a shifty about of the abilities of each alien.
Now it looks like its been CSified, nubified, MADE TOO DAMN EASY!
I put off a 100% move to quake3 when NS was released, because of the skill it required to play it. Please I whole heartedly beg you, dont make the same mistakes the CS team made, i mean yeah LOADS of people play it, BUT where did all the cheats orriginate, what mod was hacked the most, what mod has (a number i saw somewhere, not sure, will look into it again) 40% of its clientbase are cheats. CS does.
WHY
Because the team made the game easy, which in turn brought all the kids in. This isnt entirely a bad thing, BUT because of their maturity issues, kids do not like losing AT ALL. We as adults see it as a game, win or lose it will be fun (and believe it or not CS WAS fun, i know its hard to believe), but these kids came in and then the big cheats began to spring up, 10 year olds who joined us in CS 1.0 were kicking our arses, even tho we had played since the first beta, and it was their 3rd or 4th game of it.
I dont want to see NS go down this road. I have never loved a mod so much since TF and TFC, (Both still have a very high skilled player base) Please let NS stay skilled.
A worried Fan/
Frost
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Indeed.
Took me about 2 days, it is very fun though. The main thing is learning where to put trip mines so people fail to notice them in times. The other thing is learning the good camping parts of some of the various maps.
I don't think HLDM takes months to master :/
Oh i also consider mastered as knowing EVERY little feature that game has.
Actually I did, in fact not only did I play with the old netcoding, I played on a european server for a long time as well. ~700-1100 ping and I adapted relatively well. This is because I only ever had a 14.4 modem and used to play Quake a lot with around 800 ping. I learnt to compensate for lag very well.
I also played HLDM a lot on a lan too, and it is not hard to master. It is 'spam++' with a helpful dosage of 'teh spam++' too.
Any deathmatch game is immensely simple actually <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Indeed.
Took me about 2 days, it is very fun though. The main thing is learning where to put trip mines so people fail to notice them in times. The other thing is learning the good camping parts of some of the various maps.
I don't think HLDM takes months to master :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it took me months to master Kingpin, and that was even less complex than HLDM. Eventually though I ended up running workshops for new, intermediate, and top-end players to help them increase their skill level.
You may think you've reached the top, but somewhere, some lerk like DarkFrost comes out of the darkness and trounces you.
Frost, the skill element in NS lies also in the teamplay. Working most effectively with teammates is what makes this game great, though I share your anxiety about 1.1
My main qualm is that I'm seeing lots of servers and lots of players leaving until 1.1, and I fear they will never be back (Chadseh, get back here <sobs>) because it is taking so long to develop. If we'd have been told when the "1.1 is going to be released" statement instead that "1.1 is just starting development" (closer to the truth?), maybe those people wouldn't have left...
Roo
We have no idea how much "skill" the new blink is going to require. Just because you can no longer bite as lerk does not neccessarily mean the lerk requires less skill.
We have no idea how much "skill" the new blink is going to require. Just because you can no longer bite as lerk does not neccessarily mean the lerk requires less skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, but a sad "goodbye" to fly-by bitings. I look forward to the other aspects of lerk gameplay though
We have no idea how much "skill" the new blink is going to require. Just because you can no longer bite as lerk does not neccessarily mean the lerk requires less skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play almost exclusevely lerk, i know how much skill, sitting and sporing/spiking takes, and how much flying in for the kill by tearing shreads of fleash from the marine takes, the first takes little skill, for spikes its simply, keep your target and hold fire, even while flying its relatively easy. Now biting a moving target, while swooping down, not only requires skill, but is a damn site better for supporting your gorge, as it kills in 2 bites, not 12 spikes.
You may think you've reached the top, but somewhere, some lerk like DarkFrost comes out of the darkness and trounces you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Define 'master' then. If coming at the top of the server 9/10 is 'mastering' the game then I probably meet that requirement. If by master you mean know the damage etc of every weapon vs whatever then yeah, I would again meet that requirement. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> So define master for me please.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Frost, the skill element in NS lies also in the teamplay. Working most effectively with teammates is what makes this game great, though I share your anxiety about 1.1<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is all about teamplay to me. I however, think that this long round of playtesting is EXTREMELY important and should be allowed to continue for as long as needed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My main qualm is that I'm seeing lots of servers and lots of players leaving until 1.1, and I fear they will never be back (Chadseh, get back here <sobs>) because it is taking so long to develop. If we'd have been told when the "1.1 is going to be released" statement instead that "1.1 is just starting development" (closer to the truth?), maybe those people wouldn't have left...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dunno, I think that if its good people will come back. If they don't like it they'll leave. I've stopped playing Day of Defeat for example because simply put, 1.0 ruins everything that 2.1 was.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no, but a sad "goodbye" to fly-by bitings. I look forward to the other aspects of lerk gameplay though <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always been under the impression the lerk was never meant to be a flying skulk :/
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
and skulks armour is increased..... promoting solo attacks more :S
its a whole load of contradiction, thats what this has turned out to be......
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be a case of being able to predict the movements of your enemy to the gain of overcoming your enemy. for instance
a sielnt skulk darted across the doorway in front of you(from left to right) there are 3 vents into the room you are in, 1 to the right, 1 to the left and one behind you. (remember you cannot hear your enemy.
HOWEVER
because you know the map layout, you know the likely vent he will enter brings him out BEHIND you, so you cover that vent, get called a hacker, and get on with the rest of your day.
This also works the other way arround. as that skulk, i would double back on myself, coming out the right or left vents, never do the same thing twice.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and skulks armour is increased..... promoting solo attacks more :S
its a whole load of contradiction, thats what this has turned out to be...... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks have always needed an armour upgrade so that they can compete with marines with anything except carapace. Increased armour actually might mean regenerating skulks COULD be used again. Without the increased armour they gain a whopping one option: Carapace.
Really, should redemtion be gorge only, and regeneration onos only? Of course not, might as well not bother. As it is, do you know ANY skulk that would NOT take carapace in 1.04?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It would be a case of being able to predict the movements of your enemy to the gain of overcoming your enemy. for instance
a sielnt skulk darted across the doorway in front of you(from left to right) there are 3 vents into the room you are in, 1 to the right, 1 to the left and one behind you. (remember you cannot hear your enemy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That isn't a specialist skill. People have been doing that since quake 1.
Just look at the old games of Thresh, the guy would fire rockets seemingly at random and directly hit someone just moving from around a corner!
The other thing is just knowing the map, which is the only game specific thing really. Once you have prediction you keep it for the rest of your gaming days. If you never develop prediction skills then...well...you're damned to n00bdom for the rest of your FPS days <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
and i get on fine, many times not even dieing, because i know the game, i have not yet mastered NS, but i know a damn site more than most people, i know how to survive, thats the most important bit, and DC upgrades dont help me do that.
you will say "ah but carapace helps you survive"
to that ill say, i dont really get shot anyway.
(And I define a master as someone who:
has practiced enough to make his aim near-unfeasibly good.
knows how to use all the weapons available to do all possible things in the game.
knows all the maps *completely*.
can respond to every situation actively, proactively, and reactively.
Has the temprement to go with the above.)
If u can maintain the ease of control and understanding in a game like ns but also have all the skilled quirks that vets love too that would be better than just saying keep it difficult for the n00bies so i can rack up the kills.
I am a BunnyHopping hater yes i can do it and i am quite good at it but it just isnt fun nor takes any real skill in my mind just takes some patience and perhaps a good script.
The fun is gone when u know you have done the best you could do to try to nail someone but just coz they can jump backwards faster than u can run is just silly.
I say make the game easier but keep the subtleness of months of experience in a game can provide. For example strafing a skulk at the last moment i find is a skill, jumping over a skulk as he runs at u takes skill but abusing something like a BHop ruins the game and abuses the physics.
K i know i picked on Bhopping but it is the most common whinge about removal between ns and cs. The skill is not in the use of an exploit but in knowing how to predict and destroy the opposition, nubs can enjoy the game more and not have the overwhelming feel of why bother when its too hard and i could cheat in CS anyway.
Ns wasnt made for this, Ns is the future of gaming i believe (disagree if u want i dont care), it may not be as graphical as most of the newer games but its fun, friendly, has loads of gameplay and is different dont spoil it...
- RD
ps:dunno bout 2cents more like 5 bucks
(And I define a master as someone who:
has practiced enough to make his aim near-unfeasibly good.
knows how to use all the weapons available to do all possible things in the game.
knows all the maps *completely*.
can respond to every situation actively, proactively, and reactively.
Has the temprement to go with the above.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
See Roo has such away with words <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
he is the english language master <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and i get on fine, many times not even dieing, because i know the game, i have not yet mastered NS, but i know a damn site more than most people, i know how to survive, thats the most important bit, and DC upgrades dont help me do that.
you will say "ah but carapace helps you survive"
to that ill say, i dont really get shot anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you aren't playing overly good marines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. I've seen marines that you turn a corner and they put bullets into you instantly. Unless you are just the hide in a vent lerk, which just spends the entire game spiking a phase gate or turret factory. :/
I spend 100% of the game as a skulk (don't even evolve to fade) and carapace is THE only thing that keeps you alive for more than 2 seconds.
and as lerk i take carapace, simple because LMG does very little damage to a carapaced lerk, and i like that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
jsut as skulk i dont see the point
Let's not get too far off topic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can't honestly tell you about the standard of play on my server, because I've had barely any experience on other servers, so it'd be unfair for me to say either way....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Fixed rounding problems with carapace and weapon upgrades - Before: - MG l0: vs skulk: 11/13/18/21 - MG l1: vs skulk: 10/12/16/19 - MG l2: vs skulk: 9/11/15/18 - MG l3: vs skulk: 8/10/14/17 - After removing damage off the top: - MG l0: vs skulk: 11/12/14/15 - MG l1: vs skulk: 9/11/13/14 - MG l2: vs skulk: 9/10/12/13 - MG l3: vs skulk: 8/9/11/12<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is EXACTLY my point. The armour upgrade isn't to make things more 'n00bie' it is to actually make other upgrades viable. I personally prefer celerity over carapace, but I know playing decent marines that celerity is worth as much elephant dung.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(And I define a master as someone who:
has practiced enough to make his aim near-unfeasibly good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In NS, but in say, UT2k3=Prediction=owns aim. On the other hand the reverse is true in Quake 3.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->knows how to use all the weapons available to do all possible things in the game.
knows all the maps *completely*.
can respond to every situation actively, proactively, and reactively.
Has the temprement to go with the above.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I agree with all of that.
I might also add playing with over 200ping and owning people with 1/4 that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
has practiced enough to make his aim near-unfeasibly good.
knows how to use all the weapons available to do all possible things in the game.
knows all the maps *completely*.
can respond to every situation actively, proactively, and reactively.
Has the temprement to go with the above.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Roobubba i definetly have to agree with your definition i could go into a bit more detail as to what one is but you covered it very well.
- RD
I might also add playing with over 200ping and owning people with 1/4 that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK let me add...
The ability to play the same way on 10ms connection and 300ms connection (yes I've had this as well as you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) regardless of opponent
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> hehe
Right I'm going to get sacked if I don't do some work now, laters <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I cant see a very good argument coming as to why you should not use it, k yeh u save 2 res but who really cares if it helps the team??
If u dont get shot at often maybe ur just arsey, dont play against very good rines or just arnt helping the team as much as you could be.
Sorry to jump off topic fellas
- RD
If anything id take regen, to heal the little damage i do take, the numbers 62 and 8 stare at me quite often, which means the marine hit me once. I play almost every server in the UK, are you telling me all the UK marines arent good?
If anything id take regen, to heal the little damage i do take, the numbers 62 and 8 stare at me quite often, which means the marine hit me once. I play almost every server in the UK, are you telling me all the UK marines arent good? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They certainly sound like they have **** aim to me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is no way possible ur dodging wouldnt get screwed say in a vent or a very long hallway where an upgrade is invaluable.
I can understand u may take minimal fire due to dodging, hell i fancy myself an awesome wallrunner but even still ur not invincible to a decent marine and prediction is a huge part of NS knowing as a marine where to watch for the lil buggers is part of the battle.
Sitting around corners waiting for a random rine will not win the game for you.
Have you ever tried dodging with cara or regen and using ur skill to distract marines especially behind res nodes etc. You can buy your gorge time and if u are as good as u say u are, why not pawn the whole rine team by urself or at least keep them trying to hit you.
I have never met a skulk that cant be killed, dodging is good but not the god mode...
- RD
ps: hey mate im enjoying the debate create a new topic if u arnt too screwed to keep goin maybe get some more opinions??
I think taking regen with that style of play is an absolute killer, as it'll give your location away too much, I'd rather have carapace and simply last a little longer (eg if you need to run away to a hive if something happens and your teammates need your help, running past that marine you're toying with is often going to get you at least 2 bullets in your back, carapace just makes sure that when you get where you're going, you can still be effective (I see 10 0 a lot <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->)
AAAAannnnyway, back on topic, and I think 1.1 is going to prawn, and I really hope it's done soon because I want to see how the performance compares with 1.04 before I lose my server <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roo
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I also played HLDM a lot on a lan too, and it is not hard to master. It is 'spam++' with a helpful dosage of 'teh spam++' too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because <b>you didn't master it</b>.
<a href='http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetfortress/hlmp/cs_fanvideo_ii-natofilm.zip' target='_blank'>This is why you still suck at HLDM</a>.
Err if you think this then you still have alot of learning to do as a marine.