<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jun 17 2003, 10:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jun 17 2003, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think HLDM takes months to master :/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I also played HLDM a lot on a lan too, and it is not hard to master. It is 'spam++' with a helpful dosage of 'teh spam++' too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's because <b>you didn't master it</b>. <a href='http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetfortress/hlmp/cs_fanvideo_ii-natofilm.zip' target='_blank'>This is why you still suck at HLDM</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhhhhh because I am on 56k and can't be stuffed downloading a 142meg file that some random person on the internet said too?
GG.
Incidently, I don't think you have ever played me at HLDM to comment, and I don't suck at it. Unless everyone is completely abysmal <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, first, everyone that's seen it that I've talked to thought it was awesome. If you still don't want to download it, I'll tell you what's in it. There are people playing HLDM that are far, far better than you. These people are getting owned down in the video by someone better than them. (How do I know they're that much better than you? Here's a hint: they don't need tripmines to kill people, they can blast them out of the air while sailing over the map themselves)
Also, I never claimed to be skilled at HLDM, actually in comparison I'm horrible compared to these guys. All I'm saying is you should give HLDM the respect it deserves as very difficult to master.
(edit) Could some other people download the video and help this "2 day master" understand that he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about?
RandomEngy will you STOP taking this off topic?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Everything was perfectly civilized in here until about 5 or 6 posts ago >8-(
I think this has pretty much found its natural end....
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Jun 17 2003, 03:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 17 2003, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> quote from a vet <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, CS has been totally dumbed down so that any yuppie can learn to play it well. NS 1.04 required a lot of skill.. 1.1 still takes a good amount of skill.... we'll see how it turns out when it gets released to the pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is 1.1 a lower skill level than 1.04. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I got this far, made a "pssssssch" noise, and stopped reading. The "CS haes bin nubifyed!!!111oneone" threads on the CS 1.4 forums were and continue to be the most ridiculous things I have ever read on the Internet.
<!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jun 17 2003, 04:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jun 17 2003, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Jun 17 2003, 06:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 17 2003, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> for example, the skulk armour. 1.04 skulk is fine, people will argue this, but skulk and stock marine are pretty much even just now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Err if you think this then you still have alot of learning to do as a marine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> this infact means you have alot of leaning to do as a skulk.
As marine i can pretty much mow everything down. It has been said before a few times, that i have unbalanced the team simply by joining, the fact that when i play i dont go all out anymore, i dont like to massacre the opponent, yet as a skulk, i play by the letter of the book (read it and find out) and it works very well i could be rushy rushy skulk again, but make games last 2 mins really isnt fun.
(FOR RD. it takes 8 bullets to kill an uncarapaced skulk ~(in 1.04) with the 10% absorb... now level3 carapace is only 30% absorb, it takes 10 to kill.)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, first, everyone that's seen it that I've talked to thought it was awesome. If you still don't want to download it, I'll tell you what's in it. There are people playing HLDM that are far, far better than you. These people are getting owned down in the video by someone better than them. (How do I know they're that much better than you? Here's a hint: they don't need tripmines to kill people, they can blast them out of the air while sailing over the map themselves)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I say the only thing I use to kill people were tripmines? Wait I DIDN'T. Actually I'm a crossbow/shotgun **** to be more precise. I use tripmines INTELLIGENTLY. As for blasting my particular brand of mines out of the air, that would be difficult because I don't put tripmines in random places (like the open courtyard on bootcamp). Likewise, against anyone good you don't even bother placing tripmines under health/armour places, they will go to waste. You have to be extremely obscure with your tripmines (but not retardly obscure).
Incidently, have you ever seen me play? I wonder...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, I never claimed to be skilled at HLDM, actually in comparison I'm horrible compared to these guys. All I'm saying is you should give HLDM the respect it deserves as very difficult to master.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm extremely good, and I play with a ping of 500 (GG paradise, who own the only NZ server and run it on a 286 it would seem). But again, I don't view DM as 'difficult' to master because other than fancy moves and map learning there isn't much more too it. Team games are the ultimate in 'mastery' because you must learn to coordinate as well as other skills. This makes team games far and above harder to ever master than ANY DM game ever will be.
Oh and control camping, which is how I win 99% of games I do win in UT2k3 FFA (sadly, I just don't have the computer...one day...one day I will have that computer...and I'll quit all other games for good...sigh).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (edit) Could some other people download the video and help this "2 day master" understand that he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know what I'm talking about, I just find it extremely amusing that you're insecure enough to feel you have to 'prove' someone else is crap at a game when you've never seen them play before. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Do you feel that the idea there are people who are 'naturally' good at some games do exist? :/
As I said, it took me only a couple of days to 'master' HLDM because A: I played it a lot in that time, and B: I knew how the weapons functioned already (it is called single player).
Also, have you at any point considered that HL is based off the Quake engine and that the physics are pretty similar between it and Quake? Honestly :/ Why would other people downloading it make a difference? Is there a large group of highly insecure people on this forum who feel the need to automatically contradict the skill of anyone else? As for gauss jumping BTW, I view HLDM gauss jumping as needing far less skill than Quake Rocket jumping. There is no chance you kill yourself, no timing (well a bit of timing) involved and you don't even need aim. If you ask me HLDM requires MUCH less skill than Quake.
But that is just me, undoubtably you'll have your opinion that will be completely contrary.
I don't know about Darkfrosts skill, but I find it unusual that he can claim to simply 'bounce around' and not get hit by a marine. My experience has been that bouncing around just delays the inevitable trip to the respawn room, but that is against the marines I play against (who are often in Team NZ, if you want to see them there is the TeamNZvsTeamUS demo floating around somewhere). I'd question a marines aim (or ping) that could only a hit a skulk ONCE at the sort of distances he is describing. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Jun 17 2003, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 17 2003, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i could be rushy rushy skulk again, but make games last 2 mins really isnt fun.
(FOR RD. it takes 8 bullets to kill an uncarapaced skulk ~(in 1.04) with the 10% absorb... now level3 carapace is only 30% absorb, it takes 10 to kill.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush.
Also it's 9 bullets with no carapace in 1.04.
and 11 in 1.1q<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I thought it was 9/6/3 or something, can't remember now. I should just rework out zee mathematics, I need the practice anyway (maths exam coming up. How insanely depressing).
I don't think he's playing on newbie servers (how can there be newbie servers anyway? Do they advertise that they should have a group of n00bs with one good person to own them??) :/ I do think that the marines may not be very good though, as I said before, if they can hit a skulk once at close range they aren't very competent.
lol :S calling the entire of the brittish NS community crap, as you basically imply, isnt at all wise......
Anyway, can someone please displace our fears that NS will become CS all over again.
I dont care if you use DC upgrades like its a religion, i dont care if you think EVERY brittish marine team is crap because OMG not using defence upgrades must make them imcompetent. I dont care about any of the off topic things in here, i do care if NS become CS's prodogy.
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Jun 17 2003, 12:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 17 2003, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lol :S calling the entire of the brittish NS community crap, as you basically imply, isnt at all wise......
Anyway, can someone please displace our fears that NS will become CS all over again.
I dont care if you use DC upgrades like its a religion, i dont care if you think EVERY brittish marine team is crap because OMG not using defence upgrades must make them imcompetent. I dont care about any of the off topic things in here, i do care if NS become CS's prodogy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said that (though you could be more clear about who you are talking to). I just find it odd that a marine can unload 10/10 shots of pistol and 50/50 LMG and hit you once at relatively close range. I just find that truely bizzare <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jun 17 2003, 12:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jun 17 2003, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh boy oh boy a flame war! let me join!
k, about that quote, it seems that Frogg thinks any decent marine team spends the first five minutes staring at the door as opposed to building or doing anything... sure if we all stare at the door on eclipse the skulks ahve no chance, but when they come on ns_bast from three sides, two by two, and we are building the armory, its a whole different story.
Whenever you have a chance (I hope you get something better than 56k someday), just get the video. It's really hard to communicate to someone with words what I'm trying to say.
Maybe you are some kind of prodigy that in two days became better than all of the vets who had been playing HLDM since day one. Maybe you with your 500 ping and leet skills could own all of them at once, because you're "naturally" good at it. I doubt this. I think there are more tiers to HLDM gameplay and skill than you care to admit. You mention gauss jumping, saying it takes little skill, and you're right. Gauss jumping is just about as basic as you can get with HLDM, and you treat it like it's the most advanced thing you can do in it.
And Roob, it is sort of on topic, talking about the depth of skill required in a game.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Jun 17 2003, 12:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jun 17 2003, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jun 17 2003, 12:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jun 17 2003, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh boy oh boy a flame war! let me join!
k, about that quote, it seems that Frogg thinks any decent marine team spends the first five minutes staring at the door as opposed to building or doing anything... sure if we all stare at the door on eclipse the skulks ahve no chance, but when they come on ns_bast from three sides, two by two, and we are building the armory, its a whole different story. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sadly, skulk rushes can work quite effectively if you catch the marines building.
Better yet while the marines are still going "Who is going to comm" and then you annihilate them all and win in <2min :/
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe you are some kind of prodigy that in two days became better than all of the vets who had been playing HLDM since day one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never claimed that, maybe I'll refer you back to my quote where I said I was "very damn good". I did play HLDM since day one BTW, but I stopped a long time ago. Hence, why I have used the past tense in many cases when talking about HLDM.
Thank you for again, making some dumb assumption that I never said anywhere in this thread.
Again, GG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe you with your 500 ping and leet skills could own all of them at once, because you're "naturally" good at it. I doubt this. I think there are more tiers to HLDM gameplay and skill than you care to admit. You mention gauss jumping, saying it takes little skill, and you're right. Gauss jumping is just about as basic as you can get with HLDM, and you treat it like it's the most advanced thing you can do in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where did I say that? Oh wait, I DIDN'T. Thanks for extrapolating for me though. I compared gauss jumping to rocket jumping, of which I said that Gauss jumping WAS basic and that rocket jumping requires a lot more skill. Will you read my posts and stop making idiotic assumptions?
Now someone who knows what I'm talking about will put 2+2 together and realise that mastering many aspects of HLDM is easier than in Quake (which I played online until HL came out). So adapting to a new game does NOT take very long, ESPECIALLY if the engine is similarish.
Is this now clearer? Does it need to be spelt out exactly to you?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Roob, it is sort of on topic, talking about the depth of skill required in a game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And again, I maintain that team games are infinitely more complex than ANY DM game EVER will be.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Over the last X builds, there has been a lot of talk about how X, Y or Z makes the game *too* easy (or otherwise removing skill). Lerk Biting, being one example. The part that's overlooked is that you *can't* just sit there and spike any more. You'll get shot to pieces. Sure, the Skulk has more armor... but it doesn't mean that you can just charge a Marine down a hallway and expect to win. Now more than ever, it seems that you must hide and get the drop on 'em.. whether it be through Silence, Cloaking, Celerity, or some combination.
Trust me... NS isn't getting 'nubbified' or anything along those lines. It's getting changed. A portion of those who are complaining about it just dislike the fact that they have to change their tactics.
(Additionally, it's getting a bit warm in here... let's keep it a little further from the flames, guys.)
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Jun 17 2003, 06:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jun 17 2003, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Over the last X builds, there has been a lot of talk about how X, Y or Z makes the game *too* easy (or otherwise removing skill). Lerk Biting, being one example. The part that's overlooked is that you *can't* just sit there and spike any more. You'll get shot to pieces. Sure, the Skulk has more armor... but it doesn't mean that you can just charge a Marine down a hallway and expect to win. Now more than ever, it seems that you must hide and get the drop on 'em.. whether it be through Silence, Cloaking, Celerity, or some combination.
Trust me... NS isn't getting 'nubbified' or anything along those lines. It's getting changed. A portion of those who are complaining about it just dislike the fact that they have to change their tactics.
(Additionally, it's getting a bit warm in here... let's keep it a little further from the flames, guys.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you talesin thats all i wanted to hear <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not much tactic change for me then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah okay DarkFrost. We believe that you dont need carapace. That while you attack marines you wont get shot, and will come unscathed. If the marines cant aim, yes I believe you, but any average marine will take down an uncarapaced skulk very quickly. =/
There are 160 veterans and 30 PTs, with more coming in fast. It's adviseable to stop overanalyzing every single phrase that comes from every single of them. We're only human, we tend to make hasty remarks, and we tend to err.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Jun 17 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 17 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are 160 veterans and 30 PTs, with more coming in fast. It's adviseable to stop overanalyzing every single phrase that comes from every single of them. We're only human, we tend to make hasty remarks, and we tend to err. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I'm the one that made that remark, and I can definetly assure you guys, that NS 1.1 is going to be far far greater than any CS version VALVe ever made. But there are subtle differences that just make it feel like less skill is required. Spores at hive 1 for instance. Shampoo owned just about an entire marine team with spores in a game the other day. I think we can agree that in terms of skill biting > spiking > sporing. Sporing is very simple to do, fly-by-bite wasn't quite as easy for anybody to learn.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Jun 17 2003, 01:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jun 17 2003, 01:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A portion of those who are complaining about it just dislike the fact that they have to change their tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh please, thats ridiculous. You think the best NS players have a problem changing their tactics? No... If they are arguing, there is a reason for it. Not because they are scrubs.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Jun 17 2003, 12:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jun 17 2003, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jun 17 2003, 12:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jun 17 2003, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh boy oh boy a flame war! let me join!
k, about that quote, it seems that Frogg thinks any decent marine team spends the first five minutes staring at the door as opposed to building or doing anything... sure if we all stare at the door on eclipse the skulks ahve no chance, but when they come on ns_bast from three sides, two by two, and we are building the armory, its a whole different story. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> erm okay?
Lets think things thru, you dont have to wait 5 mins to build anything to prevent a skulk rush. The only time a skulk rush works is if the whole team is building or getting ammo, which any decent team isnt going to do.
omg, nemisis zero next time you drop by here can you lock this? this is getting out of hand.
But thanks for your input talesin, nem and cri.tical, decent replys <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> thank you
1. Exploit any bug or glitch in a mod. If exploiting it isn't easy, they will call the exploit a "skill" then say it's important to the mod even though it was never supposed to exist. If it is removed (or is threatened to be removed) they will start yelling about how removing it makes the mod less fun or makes the mod need less skill. (examples: Conc jumping in TFC, bunnyhopping).
2. Accuse anyone who doesn't agree with their standpoint on everything of whining, then disregard everything that person just said because they are whining. Self fulfilling phrophecys are fun.
3. Want the mod to be exactly how they see it. If anything skill based is removed, overreact and say that the mod is now for n00bs. (example: stating that CS is now "dumbed down" even though it's virtually the same mod it was before, minus the bunnyhopping issue. See rule 1.)
4. Want everything to be skill based. If it isn't, then the mod is not fun because they aren't capable of pwning newbies as easly.
Casual players, however:
1. Try to play by the rules. They hate it when people don't play exactly the way they do and follow the rules of the mod, and then fling insults in the general direction.
2. Either ignore ideas from other people, or accept them as good or bad ideas, rather then placing a label on them.
3. Want the mod to be exactly how they see it. The mod should be more forgiving, nothing should kill in one hit, and you should never get shot in the back. Skill based elements shopuld be kept to a minimum to ensure that the remainder are important and can be focused on.
4. Want a select few important things to be skill based, and have everything else perfectly even to ensure a good match.
As you can see, the two camps are miles apart. Do you understand how dificult it is to satisfy both of them?
Thanks Redford for stereotyping all clanners and ex-clanners around via your points. Making most of us as elitist ****. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That seems a bit like stereotyping. I can say I fit in neither one of those "camps" as you define them. You also define them rather harshly. It could also be said that your "clanners" see things like bunnyhopping as an unintended gameplay element rather than an exploit
Redford, Part of the problem with the "skill levels" in ALL hl mods is the overuse of prediction and the so called "anti-lag" netcode, basically if you hit you hit no matter how far arround the corner i am on my PC the prediction on yours still says i am not round the corner, so i die. that was a big problem in CS, not so much in NS but its still anoying <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The conc-jump in TFC is not a exploit, it is a feature, they changed it a couple of years back to be less powerful, as before you could conc yourself in one conc fom battlement to battlement on well. Conc jumping is neither fps based of ping based, doesnt require much timing anymore and is relitavely easy. But in TFC bunnyhopping is considered part of the game also. Why? because TFC is and always will be a fast pased action game, (not a war sim, like someone said to once lol) NS however has a factor of more realism (aside from the decades in the future part), and thats why bunnyhopping is considered wrong, that and joe public cant be arsed learning how too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
CS is not the game it once was, all the guns feel strange now, MP5 USED to be the best all round weapon, cheap, accurate and had stopping power. Now its considered a bad gun, overshadowed by the m4a1 and ak47(both of which have way to much recoil, and are heavily unrealistic)
now IRL the MP5 is cheap, accurate and powerful. (as the orriginal CS one) the m4a1, is not the best of rifles, it lacks the accuracy to be effective at long ranges. the AK47 altho a powerful weapon, can not be fired from the hip acurately, your arms dont work that way.
(Ex soldier btw <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Now i would like you to go take a running jump, (seriously i dont mean it in the bad way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) do you suddenly lose all stamina and halt?
I agree bunnyhopping is bad in CS/NS BUT the way its stopped is silly (if you are in the army and jump and suddenly stop, you'll be a laughing stock, not to mention in the NCO's bad books.
I was not saying the mod is now for n00bs, i was saying dont let it become that way, because lets face it, CS is, DoD is becoming that way also.
If people want to play casual they will learn skills, do you judge the human race so lowly as to not have the capibility to learn? I like when a complete newbie coms into the server and says "WOW, how did you do that"
I play by the rules of the server i am currently playing.
What kind of ideas? i am open to most ideas about things, but its not my place to say yae or nae.
why should the game be forgiving? its free multiplayer, whats the point in a game thats not a challenge?
<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jun 17 2003, 10:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jun 17 2003, 10:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, first, everyone that's seen it that I've talked to thought it was awesome. If you still don't want to download it, I'll tell you what's in it. There are people playing HLDM that are far, far better than you. These people are getting owned down in the video by someone better than them. (How do I know they're that much better than you? Here's a hint: they don't need tripmines to kill people, they can blast them out of the air while sailing over the map themselves)
Also, I never claimed to be skilled at HLDM, actually in comparison I'm horrible compared to these guys. All I'm saying is you should give HLDM the respect it deserves as very difficult to master.
(edit) Could some other people download the video and help this "2 day master" understand that he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that Video since along time b/c I've played HL for 2 Years now nealry everyday. And I can support u! LAN HL is nothing compared to real highskilled <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/agmod' target='_blank'>Adrenaline Gamer HL </a>
Soz for offtopic, but I love HLDM and could not life with some guy sayin' that it's easy!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Part of the problem with the "skill levels" in ALL hl mods is the overuse of prediction and the so called "anti-lag" netcode...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hold on there, pal, since when was prediction a "problem"? Prediction why when some servers choke and give players 200 ping, the server doesn't empty out. It's also why when you shoot, the bullet goes *GASP* where you shot it! Some people may whine about getting killed around a corner, but they would have gotten killed anyway, it only registered later. Others say it "rewards" people for having bad ping, which is ridiculous. I don't know and havn't heard of a single person that would rather play HL at 300 ping than 30. I think hit prediction is part of what makes HL so great, and a landmark advance in online FPS play. It's a pity that more games (like UT2003) don't adopt it.
Ahh it seems my attempts to derail the thread are back again, heh.
<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jun 18 2003, 12:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jun 18 2003, 12:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Part of the problem with the "skill levels" in ALL hl mods is the overuse of prediction and the so called "anti-lag" netcode...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hold on there, pal, since when was prediction a "problem"? Prediction why when some servers choke and give players 200 ping, the server doesn't empty out. It's also why when you shoot, the bullet goes *GASP* where you shot it! Some people may whine about getting killed around a corner, but they would have gotten killed anyway, it only registered later. Others say it "rewards" people for having bad ping, which is ridiculous. I don't know and havn't heard of a single person that would rather play HL at 300 ping than 30. I think hit prediction is part of what makes HL so great, and a landmark advance in online FPS play. It's a pity that more games (like UT2003) don't adopt it.
Ahh it seems my attempts to derail the thread are back again, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol, BUT you have to admit the netcode is why the game is so user friendly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Jun 17 2003, 06:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 17 2003, 06:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jun 18 2003, 12:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jun 18 2003, 12:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Part of the problem with the "skill levels" in ALL hl mods is the overuse of prediction and the so called "anti-lag" netcode...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hold on there, pal, since when was prediction a "problem"? Prediction why when some servers choke and give players 200 ping, the server doesn't empty out. It's also why when you shoot, the bullet goes *GASP* where you shot it! Some people may whine about getting killed around a corner, but they would have gotten killed anyway, it only registered later. Others say it "rewards" people for having bad ping, which is ridiculous. I don't know and havn't heard of a single person that would rather play HL at 300 ping than 30. I think hit prediction is part of what makes HL so great, and a landmark advance in online FPS play. It's a pity that more games (like UT2003) don't adopt it.
Ahh it seems my attempts to derail the thread are back again, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol, BUT you have to admit the netcode is why the game is so user friendly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> errr thats what he did say.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I also played HLDM a lot on a lan too, and it is not hard to master. It is 'spam++' with a helpful dosage of 'teh spam++' too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because <b>you didn't master it</b>.
<a href='http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetfortress/hlmp/cs_fanvideo_ii-natofilm.zip' target='_blank'>This is why you still suck at HLDM</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhhhhh because I am on 56k and can't be stuffed downloading a 142meg file that some random person on the internet said too?
GG.
Incidently, I don't think you have ever played me at HLDM to comment, and I don't suck at it. Unless everyone is completely abysmal <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, I never claimed to be skilled at HLDM, actually in comparison I'm horrible compared to these guys. All I'm saying is you should give HLDM the respect it deserves as very difficult to master.
(edit) Could some other people download the video and help this "2 day master" understand that he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about?
Everything was perfectly civilized in here until about 5 or 6 posts ago >8-(
I think this has pretty much found its natural end....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, CS has been totally dumbed down so that any yuppie can learn to play it well. NS 1.04 required a lot of skill.. 1.1 still takes a good amount of skill.... we'll see how it turns out when it gets released to the pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is 1.1 a lower skill level than 1.04. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got this far, made a "pssssssch" noise, and stopped reading. The "CS haes bin nubifyed!!!111oneone" threads on the CS 1.4 forums were and continue to be the most ridiculous things I have ever read on the Internet.
Err if you think this then you still have alot of learning to do as a marine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this infact means you have alot of leaning to do as a skulk.
As marine i can pretty much mow everything down. It has been said before a few times, that i have unbalanced the team simply by joining, the fact that when i play i dont go all out anymore, i dont like to massacre the opponent, yet as a skulk, i play by the letter of the book (read it and find out) and it works very well
i could be rushy rushy skulk again, but make games last 2 mins really isnt fun.
(FOR RD. it takes 8 bullets to kill an uncarapaced skulk ~(in 1.04) with the 10% absorb... now level3 carapace is only 30% absorb, it takes 10 to kill.)
Did I say the only thing I use to kill people were tripmines? Wait I DIDN'T. Actually I'm a crossbow/shotgun **** to be more precise. I use tripmines INTELLIGENTLY. As for blasting my particular brand of mines out of the air, that would be difficult because I don't put tripmines in random places (like the open courtyard on bootcamp). Likewise, against anyone good you don't even bother placing tripmines under health/armour places, they will go to waste. You have to be extremely obscure with your tripmines (but not retardly obscure).
Incidently, have you ever seen me play? I wonder...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, I never claimed to be skilled at HLDM, actually in comparison I'm horrible compared to these guys. All I'm saying is you should give HLDM the respect it deserves as very difficult to master.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm extremely good, and I play with a ping of 500 (GG paradise, who own the only NZ server and run it on a 286 it would seem). But again, I don't view DM as 'difficult' to master because other than fancy moves and map learning there isn't much more too it. Team games are the ultimate in 'mastery' because you must learn to coordinate as well as other skills. This makes team games far and above harder to ever master than ANY DM game ever will be.
Oh and control camping, which is how I win 99% of games I do win in UT2k3 FFA (sadly, I just don't have the computer...one day...one day I will have that computer...and I'll quit all other games for good...sigh).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
(edit) Could some other people download the video and help this "2 day master" understand that he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know what I'm talking about, I just find it extremely amusing that you're insecure enough to feel you have to 'prove' someone else is crap at a game when you've never seen them play before. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Do you feel that the idea there are people who are 'naturally' good at some games do exist? :/
As I said, it took me only a couple of days to 'master' HLDM because A: I played it a lot in that time, and B: I knew how the weapons functioned already (it is called single player).
Also, have you at any point considered that HL is based off the Quake engine and that the physics are pretty similar between it and Quake? Honestly :/ Why would other people downloading it make a difference? Is there a large group of highly insecure people on this forum who feel the need to automatically contradict the skill of anyone else? As for gauss jumping BTW, I view HLDM gauss jumping as needing far less skill than Quake Rocket jumping. There is no chance you kill yourself, no timing (well a bit of timing) involved and you don't even need aim. If you ask me HLDM requires MUCH less skill than Quake.
But that is just me, undoubtably you'll have your opinion that will be completely contrary.
I don't know about Darkfrosts skill, but I find it unusual that he can claim to simply 'bounce around' and not get hit by a marine. My experience has been that bouncing around just delays the inevitable trip to the respawn room, but that is against the marines I play against (who are often in Team NZ, if you want to see them there is the TeamNZvsTeamUS demo floating around somewhere). I'd question a marines aim (or ping) that could only a hit a skulk ONCE at the sort of distances he is describing. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
(FOR RD. it takes 8 bullets to kill an uncarapaced skulk ~(in 1.04) with the 10% absorb... now level3 carapace is only 30% absorb, it takes 10 to kill.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush.
Also it's 9 bullets with no carapace in 1.04.
and 11 in 1.1q
LOL stop playing on newbie servers, any decent marine team wont lose to an early skulk rush.
Also it's 9 bullets with no carapace in 1.04.
and 11 in 1.1q<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I thought it was 9/6/3 or something, can't remember now. I should just rework out zee mathematics, I need the practice anyway (maths exam coming up. How insanely depressing).
I don't think he's playing on newbie servers (how can there be newbie servers anyway? Do they advertise that they should have a group of n00bs with one good person to own them??) :/ I do think that the marines may not be very good though, as I said before, if they can hit a skulk once at close range they aren't very competent.
Anyway, can someone please displace our fears that NS will become CS all over again.
I dont care if you use DC upgrades like its a religion, i dont care if you think EVERY brittish marine team is crap because OMG not using defence upgrades must make them imcompetent. I dont care about any of the off topic things in here, i do care if NS become CS's prodogy.
Anyway, can someone please displace our fears that NS will become CS all over again.
I dont care if you use DC upgrades like its a religion, i dont care if you think EVERY brittish marine team is crap because OMG not using defence upgrades must make them imcompetent. I dont care about any of the off topic things in here, i do care if NS become CS's prodogy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said that (though you could be more clear about who you are talking to). I just find it odd that a marine can unload 10/10 shots of pistol and 50/50 LMG and hit you once at relatively close range. I just find that truely bizzare <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh boy oh boy a flame war! let me join!
k, about that quote, it seems that Frogg thinks any decent marine team spends the first five minutes staring at the door as opposed to building or doing anything... sure if we all stare at the door on eclipse the skulks ahve no chance, but when they come on ns_bast from three sides, two by two, and we are building the armory, its a whole different story.
Maybe you are some kind of prodigy that in two days became better than all of the vets who had been playing HLDM since day one. Maybe you with your 500 ping and leet skills could own all of them at once, because you're "naturally" good at it. I doubt this. I think there are more tiers to HLDM gameplay and skill than you care to admit. You mention gauss jumping, saying it takes little skill, and you're right. Gauss jumping is just about as basic as you can get with HLDM, and you treat it like it's the most advanced thing you can do in it.
And Roob, it is sort of on topic, talking about the depth of skill required in a game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh boy oh boy a flame war! let me join!
k, about that quote, it seems that Frogg thinks any decent marine team spends the first five minutes staring at the door as opposed to building or doing anything... sure if we all stare at the door on eclipse the skulks ahve no chance, but when they come on ns_bast from three sides, two by two, and we are building the armory, its a whole different story. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, skulk rushes can work quite effectively if you catch the marines building.
Better yet while the marines are still going "Who is going to comm" and then you annihilate them all and win in <2min :/
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Maybe you are some kind of prodigy that in two days became better than all of the vets who had been playing HLDM since day one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never claimed that, maybe I'll refer you back to my quote where I said I was "very damn good". I did play HLDM since day one BTW, but I stopped a long time ago. Hence, why I have used the past tense in many cases when talking about HLDM.
Thank you for again, making some dumb assumption that I never said anywhere in this thread.
Again, GG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe you with your 500 ping and leet skills could own all of them at once, because you're "naturally" good at it. I doubt this. I think there are more tiers to HLDM gameplay and skill than you care to admit. You mention gauss jumping, saying it takes little skill, and you're right. Gauss jumping is just about as basic as you can get with HLDM, and you treat it like it's the most advanced thing you can do in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where did I say that? Oh wait, I DIDN'T. Thanks for extrapolating for me though. I compared gauss jumping to rocket jumping, of which I said that Gauss jumping WAS basic and that rocket jumping requires a lot more skill. Will you read my posts and stop making idiotic assumptions?
Now someone who knows what I'm talking about will put 2+2 together and realise that mastering many aspects of HLDM is easier than in Quake (which I played online until HL came out). So adapting to a new game does NOT take very long, ESPECIALLY if the engine is similarish.
Is this now clearer? Does it need to be spelt out exactly to you?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Roob, it is sort of on topic, talking about the depth of skill required in a game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And again, I maintain that team games are infinitely more complex than ANY DM game EVER will be.
Sure, the Skulk has more armor... but it doesn't mean that you can just charge a Marine down a hallway and expect to win. Now more than ever, it seems that you must hide and get the drop on 'em.. whether it be through Silence, Cloaking, Celerity, or some combination.
Trust me... NS isn't getting 'nubbified' or anything along those lines. It's getting changed. A portion of those who are complaining about it just dislike the fact that they have to change their tactics.
(Additionally, it's getting a bit warm in here... let's keep it a little further from the flames, guys.)
Sure, the Skulk has more armor... but it doesn't mean that you can just charge a Marine down a hallway and expect to win. Now more than ever, it seems that you must hide and get the drop on 'em.. whether it be through Silence, Cloaking, Celerity, or some combination.
Trust me... NS isn't getting 'nubbified' or anything along those lines. It's getting changed. A portion of those who are complaining about it just dislike the fact that they have to change their tactics.
(Additionally, it's getting a bit warm in here... let's keep it a little further from the flames, guys.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you talesin thats all i wanted to hear <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not much tactic change for me then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If the marines cant aim, yes I believe you, but any average marine will take down an uncarapaced skulk very quickly. =/
Yeah, I'm the one that made that remark, and I can definetly assure you guys, that NS 1.1 is going to be far far greater than any CS version VALVe ever made. But there are subtle differences that just make it feel like less skill is required. Spores at hive 1 for instance. Shampoo owned just about an entire marine team with spores in a game the other day. I think we can agree that in terms of skill biting > spiking > sporing. Sporing is very simple to do, fly-by-bite wasn't quite as easy for anybody to learn.
Oh please, thats ridiculous. You think the best NS players have a problem changing their tactics? No... If they are arguing, there is a reason for it. Not because they are scrubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh boy oh boy a flame war! let me join!
k, about that quote, it seems that Frogg thinks any decent marine team spends the first five minutes staring at the door as opposed to building or doing anything... sure if we all stare at the door on eclipse the skulks ahve no chance, but when they come on ns_bast from three sides, two by two, and we are building the armory, its a whole different story. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
erm okay?
Lets think things thru, you dont have to wait 5 mins to build anything to prevent a skulk rush. The only time a skulk rush works is if the whole team is building or getting ammo, which any decent team isnt going to do.
But thanks for your input talesin, nem and cri.tical, decent replys <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
thank you
1. Exploit any bug or glitch in a mod. If exploiting it isn't easy, they will call the exploit a "skill" then say it's important to the mod even though it was never supposed to exist. If it is removed (or is threatened to be removed) they will start yelling about how removing it makes the mod less fun or makes the mod need less skill. (examples: Conc jumping in TFC, bunnyhopping).
2. Accuse anyone who doesn't agree with their standpoint on everything of whining, then disregard everything that person just said because they are whining. Self fulfilling phrophecys are fun.
3. Want the mod to be exactly how they see it. If anything skill based is removed, overreact and say that the mod is now for n00bs. (example: stating that CS is now "dumbed down" even though it's virtually the same mod it was before, minus the bunnyhopping issue. See rule 1.)
4. Want everything to be skill based. If it isn't, then the mod is not fun because they aren't capable of pwning newbies as easly.
Casual players, however:
1. Try to play by the rules. They hate it when people don't play exactly the way they do and follow the rules of the mod, and then fling insults in the general direction.
2. Either ignore ideas from other people, or accept them as good or bad ideas, rather then placing a label on them.
3. Want the mod to be exactly how they see it. The mod should be more forgiving, nothing should kill in one hit, and you should never get shot in the back. Skill based elements shopuld be kept to a minimum to ensure that the remainder are important and can be focused on.
4. Want a select few important things to be skill based, and have everything else perfectly even to ensure a good match.
As you can see, the two camps are miles apart. Do you understand how dificult it is to satisfy both of them?
Think about it.
The conc-jump in TFC is not a exploit, it is a feature, they changed it a couple of years back to be less powerful, as before you could conc yourself in one conc fom battlement to battlement on well. Conc jumping is neither fps based of ping based, doesnt require much timing anymore and is relitavely easy. But in TFC bunnyhopping is considered part of the game also. Why? because TFC is and always will be a fast pased action game, (not a war sim, like someone said to once lol)
NS however has a factor of more realism (aside from the decades in the future part), and thats why bunnyhopping is considered wrong, that and joe public cant be arsed learning how too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
CS is not the game it once was, all the guns feel strange now, MP5 USED to be the best all round weapon, cheap, accurate and had stopping power. Now its considered a bad gun, overshadowed by the m4a1 and ak47(both of which have way to much recoil, and are heavily unrealistic)
now IRL the MP5 is cheap, accurate and powerful. (as the orriginal CS one)
the m4a1, is not the best of rifles, it lacks the accuracy to be effective at long ranges.
the AK47 altho a powerful weapon, can not be fired from the hip acurately, your arms dont work that way.
(Ex soldier btw <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Now i would like you to go take a running jump, (seriously i dont mean it in the bad way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) do you suddenly lose all stamina and halt?
I agree bunnyhopping is bad in CS/NS BUT the way its stopped is silly (if you are in the army and jump and suddenly stop, you'll be a laughing stock, not to mention in the NCO's bad books.
I was not saying the mod is now for n00bs, i was saying dont let it become that way, because lets face it, CS is, DoD is becoming that way also.
If people want to play casual they will learn skills, do you judge the human race so lowly as to not have the capibility to learn? I like when a complete newbie coms into the server and says "WOW, how did you do that"
I play by the rules of the server i am currently playing.
What kind of ideas? i am open to most ideas about things, but its not my place to say yae or nae.
why should the game be forgiving? its free multiplayer, whats the point in a game thats not a challenge?
why shouldnt they want things to be skill based?
Also, I never claimed to be skilled at HLDM, actually in comparison I'm horrible compared to these guys. All I'm saying is you should give HLDM the respect it deserves as very difficult to master.
(edit) Could some other people download the video and help this "2 day master" understand that he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that Video since along time b/c I've played HL for 2 Years now nealry everyday. And I can support u! LAN HL is nothing compared to real highskilled <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/agmod' target='_blank'>Adrenaline Gamer HL </a>
Soz for offtopic, but I love HLDM and could not life with some guy sayin' that it's easy!
U can play against me if u want? :-) PM me
Hold on there, pal, since when was prediction a "problem"? Prediction why when some servers choke and give players 200 ping, the server doesn't empty out. It's also why when you shoot, the bullet goes *GASP* where you shot it! Some people may whine about getting killed around a corner, but they would have gotten killed anyway, it only registered later. Others say it "rewards" people for having bad ping, which is ridiculous. I don't know and havn't heard of a single person that would rather play HL at 300 ping than 30. I think hit prediction is part of what makes HL so great, and a landmark advance in online FPS play. It's a pity that more games (like UT2003) don't adopt it.
Ahh it seems my attempts to derail the thread are back again, heh.
Hold on there, pal, since when was prediction a "problem"? Prediction why when some servers choke and give players 200 ping, the server doesn't empty out. It's also why when you shoot, the bullet goes *GASP* where you shot it! Some people may whine about getting killed around a corner, but they would have gotten killed anyway, it only registered later. Others say it "rewards" people for having bad ping, which is ridiculous. I don't know and havn't heard of a single person that would rather play HL at 300 ping than 30. I think hit prediction is part of what makes HL so great, and a landmark advance in online FPS play. It's a pity that more games (like UT2003) don't adopt it.
Ahh it seems my attempts to derail the thread are back again, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, BUT you have to admit the netcode is why the game is so user friendly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hold on there, pal, since when was prediction a "problem"? Prediction why when some servers choke and give players 200 ping, the server doesn't empty out. It's also why when you shoot, the bullet goes *GASP* where you shot it! Some people may whine about getting killed around a corner, but they would have gotten killed anyway, it only registered later. Others say it "rewards" people for having bad ping, which is ridiculous. I don't know and havn't heard of a single person that would rather play HL at 300 ping than 30. I think hit prediction is part of what makes HL so great, and a landmark advance in online FPS play. It's a pity that more games (like UT2003) don't adopt it.
Ahh it seems my attempts to derail the thread are back again, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, BUT you have to admit the netcode is why the game is so user friendly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
errr thats what he did say.