<!--QuoteBegin--Frikk+Jun 18 2003, 03:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Jun 18 2003, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Arg. Show me a post from this current build, or hey, the one before it, that says that ramboing is easy/a problem/exists/should be worked on and I'll eat my hat, but until then, we've actually played it, you haven't. We say that it's hard then trust me, I know plenty of people with good aim that have a very hard time ramboing now. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's true. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well maybe on those servers, but I imagine that is because veterans are actually pretty good, and PT's are at least used to the game.
What about random games on PUBs? The Rambos natural home is the pub server. A good random marine can easily rack up kills from pub aliens. This would contribute to the slipperly slope problem that exists at the moment with a 2 hive lockdown (note different things of course). In both cases marines start to out tech the aliens, only one is economically done and the other is from securing two hives. Similar effect=Increasing the gap between marine tech and alien tech (evolutions, whatever).
The solution is to balance the marine and skulk which is going to be immensely difficult. Skulks and Marines are too very different ideas.
At least in 1.04 you could have wave upon wave of aliens attacking marine bases to try and destroy them. Now it seems that by doing that you'd be filling up the marine treasury to allow that base to be rebuilt ? Seems odd to me. Getting res for kills seems counter-intuitive.
As far as "ramboing" goes: I think we need to clarify something guys. There are intelligent "rambos" who use diversionary / saboteur tactics. Nothing quite like drawing aliens to a certain point when the "real" attack is coming elsewhere. In other words there are some that do a good job of keeping the other team busy. Obviously if everyone rambos then you're going to get nowhere; but declaring all ramboing to be bad is ridiculous.
And while we're at it please do not drag CS into this again. CS has objectives other than killing the other team. Alot of players simply ignore those objectives granted, but the fact remains that there are options besides killing to win the round.
<!--QuoteBegin--Moon+Jun 18 2003, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moon @ Jun 18 2003, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not sure if I like the whole res for kill thing.
At least in 1.04 you could have wave upon wave of aliens attacking marine bases to try and destroy them. Now it seems that by doing that you'd be filling up the marine treasury to allow that base to be rebuilt ? Seems odd to me. Getting res for kills seems counter-intuitive.
As far as "ramboing" goes: I think we need to clarify something guys. There are intelligent "rambos" who use diversionary / saboteur tactics. Nothing quite like drawing aliens to a certain point when the "real" attack is coming elsewhere. In other words there are some that do a good job of keeping the other team busy. Obviously if everyone rambos then you're going to get nowhere; but declaring all ramboing to be bad is ridiculous.
And while we're at it please do not drag CS into this again. CS has objectives other than killing the other team. Alot of players simply ignore those objectives granted, but the fact remains that there are options besides killing to win the round. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't care if it's "intellegent".
One thing about marine ramboing:
<b>It goes against what was orginally intended for the game.</b>
Marines were supposed to have the emphasis on teamwork. As of such, I feel that they shouldn't get any promotions for their team if they do indeed choose to rambo.
Yet at the same time, I don't want to limit what the marines can or cannot do. So basically, I've come to the conclusion that if a marine can still work with his comm effectivly, then he isn't ramboing.
<b>Definition of <i>Rambo</i></b>:
One who strays from his comm, and therefore effectivly from his team.
So what my idea does is to create a situation, where if res for kills is to be utilized... there must be coordination between the marine team and his comm, being effectivly the entire team!
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
I have to agree with the original idea. It WOULD balance things out at least slightly (and prevent a rambo-Marine team from prospering as much... at the moment it's easy to outfit everyone with shotguns and have them rambo-for-res) as the Comm would have to EITHER be collecting RP *OR* building/teching/expanding.
If this is too much a problem, combine this with the idea of having Skulks give 0RP for a kill. At that point you could just distract the Comm every now and then... radioing in that you just took a Gorge out at XYZ, or that there's a Fade waiting for pickup at ABC. At that point there's no distraction, and no problems with shotguns netting exponential gains for their tiny investment.
Well as far as story goes i've always considered the fact that you use res to evolve, that nano sludge is fused into your body to make you more powerful. The marines are simply recovering this.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jun 18 2003, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 18 2003, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Moon+Jun 18 2003, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moon @ Jun 18 2003, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not sure if I like the whole res for kill thing. ... As far as "ramboing" goes: I think we need to clarify something guys. There are intelligent "rambos" who use diversionary / saboteur tactics. Nothing quite like drawing aliens to a certain point when the "real" attack is coming elsewhere. In other words there are some that do a good job of keeping the other team busy. Obviously if everyone rambos then you're going to get nowhere; but declaring all ramboing to be bad is ridiculous. ... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't care if it's "intellegent".
One thing about marine ramboing:
<b>It goes against what was orginally intended for the game.</b>
Marines were supposed to have the emphasis on teamwork. As of such, I feel that they shouldn't get any promotions for their team if they do indeed choose to rambo.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines are not supposed to be mindless drones either.
My definition of "rambo" is someone who works alone, whether it be comm-sanctioned or not. I'm just tired of the stereotype that says "because that guy is working alone he is obviously only interested in kills, lacks intelligence blah blah blah".
If you want to see an example of a mod that really does encourage teamwork try front-line-force. In my opinion NS would do well to think about perhaps incorporating similar ideas for marines.
<!--QuoteBegin--Moon+Jun 18 2003, 09:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moon @ Jun 18 2003, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines are not supposed to be mindless drones either.
My definition of "rambo" is someone who works alone, whether it be comm-sanctioned or not. I'm just tired of the stereotype that says "because that guy is working alone he is obviously only interested in kills, lacks intelligence blah blah blah".
If you want to see an example of a mod that really does encourage teamwork try front-line-force. In my opinion NS would do well to think about perhaps incorporating similar ideas for marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's right, marines shouldn't be mindless drones. That's exactly why they shouldn't be allowed to rambo and still give their team res without coordination. I mean, you think by doing teamwork you are being mindless? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Try the other way around... Just running, shoot, run, shoot some more, run run run, shoot shoot shoot, die. And repeat. Wow, talk about tatics... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is no strategy in telling some guy to run around like an idoit killing stuff, by himself, and without commander supervision.
And front line force... Never played it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well as far as story goes i've always considered the fact that you use res to evolve, that nano sludge is fused into your body to make you more powerful. The marines are simply recovering this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we don't really have to worry too much about the story, I do believe there are plenty of talented people enough with good enough imanginations to change it around some.
And I wonder if the story will be updated with v1.1?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have to agree with the original idea. It WOULD balance things out at least slightly (and prevent a rambo-Marine team from prospering as much... at the moment it's easy to outfit everyone with shotguns and have them rambo-for-res) as the Comm would have to EITHER be collecting RP *OR* building/teching/expanding. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Well maybe on those servers, but I imagine that is because veterans are actually pretty good, and PT's are at least used to the game.
What about random games on PUBs? The Rambos natural home is the pub server. A good random marine can easily rack up kills from pub aliens. This would contribute to the slipperly slope problem that exists at the moment with a 2 hive lockdown (note different things of course). In both cases marines start to out tech the aliens, only one is economically done and the other is from securing two hives. Similar effect=Increasing the gap between marine tech and alien tech (evolutions, whatever).
The solution is to balance the marine and skulk which is going to be immensely difficult. Skulks and Marines are too very different ideas.
At least in 1.04 you could have wave upon wave of aliens attacking marine bases to try and destroy them. Now it seems that by doing that you'd be filling up the marine treasury to allow that base to be rebuilt ? Seems odd to me. Getting res for kills seems counter-intuitive.
As far as "ramboing" goes: I think we need to clarify something guys. There are intelligent "rambos" who use diversionary / saboteur tactics. Nothing quite like drawing aliens to a certain point when the "real" attack is coming elsewhere. In other words there are some that do a good job of keeping the other team busy. Obviously if everyone rambos then you're going to get nowhere; but declaring all ramboing to be bad is ridiculous.
And while we're at it please do not drag CS into this again. CS has objectives other than killing the other team. Alot of players simply ignore those objectives granted, but the fact remains that there are options besides killing to win the round.
At least in 1.04 you could have wave upon wave of aliens attacking marine bases to try and destroy them. Now it seems that by doing that you'd be filling up the marine treasury to allow that base to be rebuilt ? Seems odd to me. Getting res for kills seems counter-intuitive.
As far as "ramboing" goes: I think we need to clarify something guys. There are intelligent "rambos" who use diversionary / saboteur tactics. Nothing quite like drawing aliens to a certain point when the "real" attack is coming elsewhere. In other words there are some that do a good job of keeping the other team busy. Obviously if everyone rambos then you're going to get nowhere; but declaring all ramboing to be bad is ridiculous.
And while we're at it please do not drag CS into this again. CS has objectives other than killing the other team. Alot of players simply ignore those objectives granted, but the fact remains that there are options besides killing to win the round. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care if it's "intellegent".
One thing about marine ramboing:
<b>It goes against what was orginally intended for the game.</b>
Marines were supposed to have the emphasis on teamwork. As of such, I feel that they shouldn't get any promotions for their team if they do indeed choose to rambo.
Yet at the same time, I don't want to limit what the marines can or cannot do. So basically, I've come to the conclusion that if a marine can still work with his comm effectivly, then he isn't ramboing.
<b>Definition of <i>Rambo</i></b>:
One who strays from his comm, and therefore effectivly from his team.
So what my idea does is to create a situation, where if res for kills is to be utilized... there must be coordination between the marine team and his comm, being effectivly the entire team!
And the idea is very simple: point and click.
This is why I believe my idea has merit.
If this is too much a problem, combine this with the idea of having Skulks give 0RP for a kill. At that point you could just distract the Comm every now and then... radioing in that you just took a Gorge out at XYZ, or that there's a Fade waiting for pickup at ABC. At that point there's no distraction, and no problems with shotguns netting exponential gains for their tiny investment.
...
As far as "ramboing" goes: I think we need to clarify something guys. There are intelligent "rambos" who use diversionary / saboteur tactics. Nothing quite like drawing aliens to a certain point when the "real" attack is coming elsewhere. In other words there are some that do a good job of keeping the other team busy. Obviously if everyone rambos then you're going to get nowhere; but declaring all ramboing to be bad is ridiculous.
... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care if it's "intellegent".
One thing about marine ramboing:
<b>It goes against what was orginally intended for the game.</b>
Marines were supposed to have the emphasis on teamwork. As of such, I feel that they shouldn't get any promotions for their team if they do indeed choose to rambo.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines are not supposed to be mindless drones either.
My definition of "rambo" is someone who works alone, whether it be comm-sanctioned or not. I'm just tired of the stereotype that says "because that guy is working alone he is obviously only interested in kills, lacks intelligence blah blah blah".
If you want to see an example of a mod that really does encourage teamwork try front-line-force. In my opinion NS would do well to think about perhaps incorporating similar ideas for marines.
My definition of "rambo" is someone who works alone, whether it be comm-sanctioned or not. I'm just tired of the stereotype that says "because that guy is working alone he is obviously only interested in kills, lacks intelligence blah blah blah".
If you want to see an example of a mod that really does encourage teamwork try front-line-force. In my opinion NS would do well to think about perhaps incorporating similar ideas for marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's right, marines shouldn't be mindless drones. That's exactly why they shouldn't be allowed to rambo and still give their team res without coordination. I mean, you think by doing teamwork you are being mindless? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Try the other way around... Just running, shoot, run, shoot some more, run run run, shoot shoot shoot, die. And repeat. Wow, talk about tatics... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is no strategy in telling some guy to run around like an idoit killing stuff, by himself, and without commander supervision.
And front line force... Never played it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well as far as story goes i've always considered the fact that you use res to evolve, that nano sludge is fused into your body to make you more powerful. The marines are simply recovering this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we don't really have to worry too much about the story, I do believe there are plenty of talented people enough with good enough imanginations to change it around some.
And I wonder if the story will be updated with v1.1?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have to agree with the original idea. It WOULD balance things out at least slightly (and prevent a rambo-Marine team from prospering as much... at the moment it's easy to outfit everyone with shotguns and have them rambo-for-res) as the Comm would have to EITHER be collecting RP *OR* building/teching/expanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->