<!--QuoteBegin--Lux+Jul 10 2003, 06:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lux @ Jul 10 2003, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (I am a skilled ns player in a top clan who will rarely pub once 2.0 is out) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG LIEZ <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lux, this is yet another one of those differences in psychology that can impact the game. From your point of view I can understand your want of a score option.
However, on the PUBLIC servers, the score would do more harmn than good. Considering public servers represent the majority of servers, I can see why Flayra wants it this way.
Personally I would only be in favour of having the scoreboard up if the following conditions were met:
-Tournament mode/Friendly Fire MUST be ON
At this point a server side variable could be set that would enable the scoreboard.
In other words, I am in favour of allowing the OPTION of a scoreboard, but ONLY for clan matches/practices since they ARE of a competitive nature and it makes sense. I would never want to see scores on public servers though, and foring tournament mode/friendly fire modes on to see scores basically assures that no public server would ever use it since it would cause more problems than it would solve.
In the end, the difference of opinion over the scoreboard is much like the difference of opinion over medpack spam. Some like it, some hate it, and neither side seems willing or able to understand the other side's point of view.
So far the only reason FOR a scorebaord I have seen relates to clan activities. I haven't seen any good reasons for scores in public games other than 'I want it'.
I say bring the scoreboard in, and make each building kill worth one point as well. NS already reconizes this somewhere (since stat programs can take it out of the logs) it should be fairly easy to impliment. Rambos don't really often take out structures, so the scoreboard will actually help aleviate the problem of marines ramboing.
If a marine goes into the alien hive and takes out there 3 defence chambers, is it worth as much as killing 3 skulks? Definately, so it should be counted. Or if a lone alien goes in takes out the marine base, say ip x 2, obs, armory and arms lab, is it worth as much as 5 marines? Absolutely.
It could also be put under a seperate column, in that case I'd say also have buildings built count, which would be just as easy to impliment. It would balance out pretty well, since if you have one marine building a resource tower and one guarding, the marine who builds it gets one building point, while the guarding marine gets one kill for the skulk that was intent on taking them out.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, it would only increase teamwork on public servers, along with show personal skill and a little competative nature between teammates so that they all try their best.
To be honest, the only reason I like the scoreboard is because I like seeing how my team is doing, and how I'm doing. Yes, it doesn't mean much, and yes, I have heard people complaining about "you stole my kill"... but they were marines, and it was 1.04. No scores displayed, and they still complained. In the end, I think the effect on the game is quite negligible either way.
NS is inherently different from CS, and the two games will never be remotely similar. I personally enjoy knowing my K/D ratio, but if Flayra doesn't wish it to be part of the game, so be it. If there's enough demand, someone will make a server side plugin or mod which adds them back in and we'll all be happy.
I like the scoreboard for a variety of reasons. I think that instead of removing the scoreboard for alien, they should instead add one for marine.
After all, the scoreboard is the easiest way to tell how well a player is doing. Which makes it very usefull for recruiting. It also lets me know if I'm sucking or not.
Can't the marines get scores for kills? Just to keep track of who is good? IF the commadner wants to give a HMG and JP he/she will know who will be good with it or who will be like George Bush with a hmg....
Well people arue that it may make people not work as a team as well... Well I have news for you, the commander is jsut an average marine... Hes not verry special... He may be the fastest person to get to the command chair.
Scores for marines may be good.
Or you can forget about kills for marines.
How about the best marine with the most kills can type in green or a tag in some color that stands out so the other mairnes knows he/she is some kind of leader so they can follow him/her. So there would be a commander and a marine leader that can be the marien with the most kills and the role of that may be changed if someother marien is better later.
Or how about each kill gives you like 1 resource and it is not an additional resource for the team. It is your own resource. Like a marine could get a resource bank accound. If the commadner drops a store machine (kind of like a soda machine but it has weapons/armor/jps in it) and the marien can go up to it and buy a weapon. The weapon could be more expensive like 30 per hmg, 30 per heavy armor and 14 per jet pack like an extra 5 res per thing. That way if the commander did not research the hmg yet, a soldier cna buy it with money from the soldier's bank account. AND if the soldier has 30 res to spend and he spends it and the team resources is at 47 then 30 resources is subtracted form the team resources (the tream resources is the resources that you see and the commandeer can spend). So the mariens dont get an advantage; no extra resources are gained by a kill but the mairne has the right if the marine chooses to spend it and it is deducted form the team resources.
That way you get some advantage form killing more ailens and you can still work as a team.
And if you want maybe for each thing you build you get 1 or 1/2 resource.
The commander can stilld rop stuff but people wont camp abse and ask for hmg and jps. The commander can curse at the mairne and tell him/her to earn his/her hmg and jp. Also marines may upgrade thir armor/weapons like if the commander has lev 1 weapons upgraded the mairne can pay 10 resources to get level 2 weapons on it, but if the mairen dies he /she is back at level 1. Marines could also buy health and (ammo stupid if there is an armory). The machine could also weld the marine at the cost of 2 resources and no welder even has to be bought.
or how about the score is only shown at the end of the game?
Considering how easily marines pwn skulks early in game, this would be horrilby unbalanced. Plus, instead of killing a hive they would just kill spawning aliens to get res.
<!--QuoteBegin--MrMojo+Jul 11 2003, 08:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Jul 11 2003, 08:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Considering how easily marines pwn skulks early in game, this would be horrilby unbalanced. Plus, instead of killing a hive they would just kill spawning aliens to get res. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Changed in 2.0.
If both teams were just ranked like the aliens are in 2.0 I think most of the people would be happy. Then again maybe I'm being optimistic.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--Frikk+Jul 11 2003, 04:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Jul 11 2003, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If both teams were just ranked like the aliens are in 2.0 I think most of the people would be happy. Then again maybe I'm being optimistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How are the aliens ranked in 2.0?
They move up and down the board depending on the scores, which are hidden. It's like the 1.04 board without the numbers. That is, unless it's been changed and I wasn't paying attention.
<!--QuoteBegin--Umbraed Monkey+Jul 10 2003, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Jul 10 2003, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...or Flayra can get annoyed at all ye whining and INCLUDE the K:D but randomize the numbers everytime you view it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ownt.
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 10 2003, 06:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 10 2003, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make the scoreboard more functional (with assists and followed orders and such) would add needless network and server computational overhead. Additionally, removing uncessary scoreboard data saves network bandwidth over time. We are trying to reduce overhead, not increase it. We are also trying to finish the game, not delay its release.
That being said, everyone here can keep arguing until they're blue in the face, but <b>Flayra does not like the K/D scoreboard system of most games, and what Flayra wants, Flayra does</b>. I happen to agree with him, and can think of no games that both have a large amount of real teamwork as well as a kill-based pecking order. I sincerely doubt it will be changed for pub play. For Tourney mode, it is still on the list (although I think clan leaders would be far better advised to run Psychostats if they want meaningful sampled data, and not just stare at a K/D board. If that's the way to judge players, welcome to 'arse-kicked-by-more-intelligent-clans-in-league-play town' - population, YOU).
That is all. Carry on with the remainder of your discussion if you must. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thread really should have been locked there .. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Jul 10 2003, 01:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jul 10 2003, 01:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--mATTHEW KELLY+Jul 10 2003, 06:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mATTHEW KELLY @ Jul 10 2003, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seriously - there is a reason the scoreboard is a mainstay of virtually all other online shoot em ups. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no weaker argument than 'Everyone else does it, too!'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was suggesting that the general half life community likes to be able to see how much they're pwning.
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 10 2003, 04:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 10 2003, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (although I think clan leaders would be far better advised to run Psychostats if they want meaningful sampled data, and not just stare at a K/D board. If that's the way to judge players, welcome to 'arse-kicked-by-more-intelligent-clans-in-league-play town' - population, YOU). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats a tad insulting, are you suggesting that clans would suddenly and magically be blind to all other factors involved in NS gameplay upon the arrival of a kills/deaths ratio scoreboard?
<!--QuoteBegin--wizard@psu+Jul 10 2003, 01:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Jul 10 2003, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never liked scores in NS. Does it really matter if you go 30 - 1 if your team loses? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Does anything else need to be said? Lux why are you trying to give new players the goal of being proud of K:D ratios? They need to learn to go 1 - 60 if it means taking out the turret factory that lets their team win the game; instead as more experienced players we should be encouraging and giving newbies pats on the back when they adopt a self-sacrificing attitude. If you want to check your l337-o-meter to boost your self-esteem just do as everyone has pointed out and do /status. I never understood why so many people argue that the score board would be useful for new players as having something that keeps track of deaths leads people to believe that they're negative. If you die stalling marines, destroying the proto, or a dozen of the other things you're a lot more useful to the team that the clan guy who's bragging about his 30-1 run in IRC after the game.
I mean **** man, this guy is freaking "elite" with a capitol 3.
On another note does it actually matter if your team loses if you had fun pitching yourself against real live players in a battle of skill and not trying circle strafe a homo turret for hours on end?
I feel that a scoreboard, even a simple kills/death ratio scoreboard (inaccurate as it maybe), adds to this experience.
Furthermore id like to suggest that online shoot em ups arent your bag. Perhaps Sims Online or John Romero's man sex simulator are more your scene.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--mATTHEW KELLY+Jul 11 2003, 05:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mATTHEW KELLY @ Jul 11 2003, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 10 2003, 04:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 10 2003, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (although I think clan leaders would be far better advised to run Psychostats if they want meaningful sampled data, and not just stare at a K/D board. If that's the way to judge players, welcome to 'arse-kicked-by-more-intelligent-clans-in-league-play town' - population, YOU). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats a tad insulting, are you suggesting that clans would suddenly and magically be blind to all other factors involved in NS gameplay upon the arrival of a kills/deaths ratio scoreboard?
Puuuuuuuuuuleeease. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually I've watched a couple people play, and when they found out about how to check there scores as aliens they would start thinking about kill count and not team play, which is what NS is based on
If you need to see something so superficial as scores, and you'd look at a scoreboard to recruit a team-mate I'd be sure to decline that offer. The point of NS is fun [/insert_happiness_here] When i check the scoreboard its to see if my ping is doing okay, and who all is playing. Death to the scoreboard. I'd laugh if the scoreboard was removed from CS. The 12 year old player group would be vaporized. Might be worth playing again if THAT were to happen....dun dun dun
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never liked scores in NS. Does it really matter if you go 30 - 1 if your team loses?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's highly unlikely that a team with a 30-1 player loses (unless the other team has one too, of course...)
While many people say that DM is dead, I've yet to see a FPS in which fragging isn't the primary objective. Whether it's DoD, BF1942, NS... the team that gets the most frags usually wins. Seems like forcing enemies into the respawn queue is the best way to accomplish whatever secondary objectives the team oriented games have implemented. Or in NS terms: Dead Skulks won't defend a Hive.
I doubt that FPSs will ever be able to break free from that; the frag orientation is too deeply embedded in the game mechanics.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Jul 11 2003, 10:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 11 2003, 10:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you need to see something so superficial as scores, and you'd look at a scoreboard to recruit a team-mate I'd be sure to decline that offer. The point of NS is fun [/insert_happiness_here] When i check the scoreboard its to see if my ping is doing okay, and who all is playing. Death to the scoreboard. I'd laugh if the scoreboard was removed from CS. The 12 year old player group would be vaporized. Might be worth playing again if THAT were to happen....dun dun dun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are so bitterly wrong its untrue.
The scoreboard is all that inspires so many people to play CS for months on the end, the ability to see how there FPS skill is improving.
The reason for this is ultimately the process of winning a game, in NS or CS, will always be the same. I mean how many times can you play an NS map before realising you're doing the same thing you did last round? Not to offend, but it has very simple strategic elements at best.
Whereas skill-gaining is a dynamic process and being able to see how the process moves long keeps people interested. This isnt an immature concept, even in NS. Ultimately NS is still 90% FPS skill based and until a patch comes along to allow a team to win solely by the overwhelming brilliance and originality of their strategy and coordination, ill be in favour of a scoreboard.
<!--QuoteBegin--mATTHEW KELLY+Jul 11 2003, 07:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mATTHEW KELLY @ Jul 11 2003, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On another note does it actually matter if your team loses if you had fun pitching yourself against real live players in a battle of skill and not trying circle strafe a homo turret for hours on end?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You said it all right there. The point of NS is to work as a team, to rush out and die repeatedly for the good of the whole instead of the individual. Yes, you may benefit the people coming from the other communities that make frags seem like the best you can do, but is that really a good thing?
Example of how a 30-1 player can still be on the losing team : Joins in, goes lerk, they have 2 hives ( and soon 1), and he spikes quite a lot of people. However, they still lose when the HA trains come in. It's not really his fault, but the frags didnt help him at all either.
Comments
OMG LIEZ <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, on the PUBLIC servers, the score would do more harmn than good. Considering public servers represent the majority of servers, I can see why Flayra wants it this way.
Personally I would only be in favour of having the scoreboard up if the following conditions were met:
-Tournament mode/Friendly Fire MUST be ON
At this point a server side variable could be set that would enable the scoreboard.
In other words, I am in favour of allowing the OPTION of a scoreboard, but ONLY for clan matches/practices since they ARE of a competitive nature and it makes sense. I would never want to see scores on public servers though, and foring tournament mode/friendly fire modes on to see scores basically assures that no public server would ever use it since it would cause more problems than it would solve.
In the end, the difference of opinion over the scoreboard is much like the difference of opinion over medpack spam. Some like it, some hate it, and neither side seems willing or able to understand the other side's point of view.
So far the only reason FOR a scorebaord I have seen relates to clan activities. I haven't seen any good reasons for scores in public games other than 'I want it'.
Regards,
Savant
If a marine goes into the alien hive and takes out there 3 defence chambers, is it worth as much as killing 3 skulks? Definately, so it should be counted. Or if a lone alien goes in takes out the marine base, say ip x 2, obs, armory and arms lab, is it worth as much as 5 marines? Absolutely.
It could also be put under a seperate column, in that case I'd say also have buildings built count, which would be just as easy to impliment. It would balance out pretty well, since if you have one marine building a resource tower and one guarding, the marine who builds it gets one building point, while the guarding marine gets one kill for the skulk that was intent on taking them out.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, it would only increase teamwork on public servers, along with show personal skill and a little competative nature between teammates so that they all try their best.
NS is inherently different from CS, and the two games will never be remotely similar. I personally enjoy knowing my K/D ratio, but if Flayra doesn't wish it to be part of the game, so be it. If there's enough demand, someone will make a server side plugin or mod which adds them back in and we'll all be happy.
After all, the scoreboard is the easiest way to tell how well a player is doing. Which makes it very usefull for recruiting. It also lets me know if I'm sucking or not.
Can't the marines get scores for kills?
Just to keep track of who is good?
IF the commadner wants to give a HMG and JP he/she will know who will be good with it or who will be like George Bush with a hmg....
Well people arue that it may make people not work as a team as well...
Well I have news for you, the commander is jsut an average marine...
Hes not verry special...
He may be the fastest person to get to the command chair.
Scores for marines may be good.
Or you can forget about kills for marines.
How about the best marine with the most kills can type in green or a tag in some color that stands out so the other mairnes knows he/she is some kind of leader so they can follow him/her. So there would be a commander and a marine leader that can be the marien with the most kills and the role of that may be changed if someother marien is better later.
Or how about each kill gives you like 1 resource and it is not an additional resource for the team. It is your own resource. Like a marine could get a resource bank accound. If the commadner drops a store machine (kind of like a soda machine but it has weapons/armor/jps in it) and the marien can go up to it and buy a weapon. The weapon could be more expensive like 30 per hmg, 30 per heavy armor and 14 per jet pack like an extra 5 res per thing. That way if the commander did not research the hmg yet, a soldier cna buy it with money from the soldier's bank account. AND if the soldier has 30 res to spend and he spends it and the team resources is at 47 then 30 resources is subtracted form the team resources (the tream resources is the resources that you see and the commandeer can spend). So the mariens dont get an advantage; no extra resources are gained by a kill but the mairne has the right if the marine chooses to spend it and it is deducted form the team resources.
That way you get some advantage form killing more ailens and you can still work as a team.
And if you want maybe for each thing you build you get 1 or 1/2 resource.
The commander can stilld rop stuff but people wont camp abse and ask for hmg and jps. The commander can curse at the mairne and tell him/her to earn his/her hmg and jp. Also marines may upgrade thir armor/weapons like if the commander has lev 1 weapons upgraded the mairne can pay 10 resources to get level 2 weapons on it, but if the mairen dies he /she is back at level 1. Marines could also buy health and (ammo stupid if there is an armory). The machine could also weld the marine at the cost of 2 resources and no welder even has to be bought.
or how about the score is only shown at the end of the game?
if a hmg costs 30 in the store machine then 200 tream total resources has 30 deducted.
if the marine buys nothing but has 50 credits to him the ammount for team total is still 200 but if the marine buys somtething then it is deducted.
maybe the marines cant buy stuff if they have like 20 res to spemd and the team resources is at 2 or maybe debt is a good idea...
marine have -18 resources...
lol
Changed in 2.0.
If both teams were just ranked like the aliens are in 2.0 I think most of the people would be happy. Then again maybe I'm being optimistic.
How are the aliens ranked in 2.0?
Looks like someone wants to have his cake and eat it in regards to the rambo vs. teamwork conflict.
Ownt.
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 10 2003, 06:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 10 2003, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make the scoreboard more functional (with assists and followed orders and such) would add needless network and server computational overhead. Additionally, removing uncessary scoreboard data saves network bandwidth over time. We are trying to reduce overhead, not increase it. We are also trying to finish the game, not delay its release.
That being said, everyone here can keep arguing until they're blue in the face, but <b>Flayra does not like the K/D scoreboard system of most games, and what Flayra wants, Flayra does</b>. I happen to agree with him, and can think of no games that both have a large amount of real teamwork as well as a kill-based pecking order. I sincerely doubt it will be changed for pub play. For Tourney mode, it is still on the list (although I think clan leaders would be far better advised to run Psychostats if they want meaningful sampled data, and not just stare at a K/D board. If that's the way to judge players, welcome to 'arse-kicked-by-more-intelligent-clans-in-league-play town' - population, YOU).
That is all. Carry on with the remainder of your discussion if you must.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thread really should have been locked there .. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is no weaker argument than 'Everyone else does it, too!'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was suggesting that the general half life community likes to be able to see how much they're pwning.
Which is surely what is best for NS.
ON THE CONTARY, there can be no finer argument.
ah hahaha
see?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a tad insulting, are you suggesting that clans would suddenly and magically be blind to all other factors involved in NS gameplay upon the arrival of a kills/deaths ratio scoreboard?
Puuuuuuuuuuleeease.
ah hahaha
see? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IM a funny guy.
But dont let that distract you from the discussion at hand.....
(damn furries)
Does anything else need to be said? Lux why are you trying to give new players the goal of being proud of K:D ratios? They need to learn to go 1 - 60 if it means taking out the turret factory that lets their team win the game; instead as more experienced players we should be encouraging and giving newbies pats on the back when they adopt a self-sacrificing attitude. If you want to check your l337-o-meter to boost your self-esteem just do as everyone has pointed out and do /status. I never understood why so many people argue that the score board would be useful for new players as having something that keeps track of deaths leads people to believe that they're negative. If you die stalling marines, destroying the proto, or a dozen of the other things you're a lot more useful to the team that the clan guy who's bragging about his 30-1 run in IRC after the game.
I mean **** man, this guy is freaking "elite" with a capitol 3.
On another note does it actually matter if your team loses if you had fun pitching yourself against real live players in a battle of skill and not trying circle strafe a homo turret for hours on end?
I feel that a scoreboard, even a simple kills/death ratio scoreboard (inaccurate as it maybe), adds to this experience.
Furthermore id like to suggest that online shoot em ups arent your bag. Perhaps Sims Online or John Romero's man sex simulator are more your scene.
ah hahaha
see? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
nice silverfox
if flayra says no scoreboard, then I think there should be no scoreboard, simple as that
BUT NOOOOOOOOOOO
He released a halflife mod into the halflife community, and opened his lovely forum for the community to post in.
He's doin it for all the kids.
Word.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a tad insulting, are you suggesting that clans would suddenly and magically be blind to all other factors involved in NS gameplay upon the arrival of a kills/deaths ratio scoreboard?
Puuuuuuuuuuleeease. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually I've watched a couple people play, and when they found out about how to check there scores as aliens they would start thinking about kill count and not team play, which is what NS is based on
It's highly unlikely that a team with a 30-1 player loses (unless the other team has one too, of course...)
While many people say that DM is dead, I've yet to see a FPS in which fragging isn't the primary objective. Whether it's DoD, BF1942, NS... the team that gets the most frags usually wins. Seems like forcing enemies into the respawn queue is the best way to accomplish whatever secondary objectives the team oriented games have implemented. Or in NS terms: Dead Skulks won't defend a Hive.
I doubt that FPSs will ever be able to break free from that; the frag orientation is too deeply embedded in the game mechanics.
You are so bitterly wrong its untrue.
The scoreboard is all that inspires so many people to play CS for months on the end, the ability to see how there FPS skill is improving.
The reason for this is ultimately the process of winning a game, in NS or CS, will always be the same. I mean how many times can you play an NS map before realising you're doing the same thing you did last round? Not to offend, but it has very simple strategic elements at best.
Whereas skill-gaining is a dynamic process and being able to see how the process moves long keeps people interested. This isnt an immature concept, even in NS. Ultimately NS is still 90% FPS skill based and until a patch comes along to allow a team to win solely by the overwhelming brilliance and originality of their strategy and coordination, ill be in favour of a scoreboard.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You said it all right there. The point of NS is to work as a team, to rush out and die repeatedly for the good of the whole instead of the individual. Yes, you may benefit the people coming from the other communities that make frags seem like the best you can do, but is that really a good thing?
Example of how a 30-1 player can still be on the losing team : Joins in, goes lerk, they have 2 hives ( and soon 1), and he spikes quite a lot of people. However, they still lose when the HA trains come in. It's not really his fault, but the frags didnt help him at all either.
<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>