moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited July 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Jul 16 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jul 16 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well from what I know about the plan it's an attempt to stimulate the consumer market and with the elmination of the double dividend tax the stock market should get a boost as well. Consumer confidence was one of the hardest hit sectors in the last few years. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Consumer confidence is such a volitile and imprecise factor that I'm a bit leery of any plan that is specifically designed to target it. Something like FDR's fireside chats could have just as much (if not more) of an effect on consumer confidence as a tax cut. One thing worth noting though, nothing kills consumer confidence more efficiently than a messy and time consuming war.
Edit: Dr. D, I agree with you whole-heartedly on the war on drugs. The amount of our production power that we waste on prosecuting marijuana offenders alone is rediculous.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Jul 16 2003, 08:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Jul 16 2003, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a reason the great depression lasted so long. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's cause the fed was bein a bit St00pid, and tightened the money market after the stock market crashed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Alan Greenpan wouldn't let that happen. *prays*
No one is ever going to agree on this topic. Ever. None of you are going to convince the other side of your point, because they do not want to hear it. Because of that, it's really not worth getting worked up about it. You all have good points, and you have all made them... but nobody is really listening to anyone else.
And Xzilen, I'm a liberal and I live in conservative central Pennsylvania. I've been graded down on papers just for saying negative things about the current administration, so I'm afraid I don't have any sympathy for people insulting you... I get touchy when people write books about liberals titled "Slander" and "Treason".
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 16 2003, 08:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 16 2003, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Jul 16 2003, 08:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Jul 16 2003, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a reason the great depression lasted so long. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's cause the fed was bein a bit St00pid, and tightened the money market after the stock market crashed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Alan Greenpan wouldn't let that happen. *prays*
anyways . . . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The kind of economic policy your talking about Big goverment spending vs Small, is that big spending for the goverment is only short term. i.e. boost immediate consumer spending. That only deals with supplies we have now and dosen't go for really an exspansion of buisness. The decision to produce new goods, the decision to spend current revenues to build factories and hire workers is a matter, not of consumption, but of investment. Thats why that kind of economic policy is bad, its only short term. EPI economists single out this measure for special criticism, dismissing it as "not credible as a short-term stimulus."
If the buisness men and women the entrepreneurs have the money to expand buisness the economy will grow much better in time.
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited July 2003
I think I stumbled upon the exact article you are quoting there. <a href='http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/rt021203.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/r.../rt021203.shtml</a> . It doesn't seem to have anything to do with using government spending to stimulate the economy. Its just seems to be an indictment of the progressive tax system, as exemplified by such statements as <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the minds of leftist economists, the economy does not exist so that productive individuals can enjoy the fruits of their labors. It exists for only one purpose: to divert money from the successful to the unsuccessful. If these economists seek to "stimulate" the economy, it is only so that productive people can, temporarily, become more vigorous draft-horses to drag along a cart loaded with an ever-heavier crowd of unproductive hitchhikers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Correct me if I'm wrong.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 16 2003, 10:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 16 2003, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its called plundering ect......
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
<!--QuoteBegin--acer r+Jul 16 2003, 11:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (acer r @ Jul 16 2003, 11:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 16 2003, 10:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 16 2003, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> its called plundering ect...... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Plundering? You mean like if the entire world turned into pirates?
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 16 2003, 10:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 16 2003, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--acer r+Jul 16 2003, 11:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (acer r @ Jul 16 2003, 11:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 16 2003, 10:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 16 2003, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 16 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> its called plundering ect...... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Plundering? You mean like if the entire world turned into pirates?
Cool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol it would be more of a short term salvation, then where you run out of stuff to plunder, cuz when you do you=scewed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 16 2003, 10:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 16 2003, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But the eye-patch hook-hand and peg-leg industries would boom like nobody's business. It would be the dawn of a new golden age. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Jul 16 2003, 08:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Jul 16 2003, 08:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one is ever going to agree on this topic. Ever. None of you are going to convince the other side of your point, because they do not want to hear it. Because of that, it's really not worth getting worked up about it. You all have good points, and you have all made them... but nobody is really listening to anyone else.
And Xzilen, I'm a liberal and I live in conservative central Pennsylvania. I've been graded down on papers just for saying negative things about the current administration, so I'm afraid I don't have any sympathy for people insulting you... I get touchy when people write books about liberals titled "Slander" and "Treason". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoope, too bad a study of teachers across America shows that about 96.7 percent are indeed Left-wingers.
On top of that, you still have a left-wing media to turn to, I have to go out of my way to look for right-wing news coverage, on talk radio etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 16 2003, 10:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 16 2003, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think I stumbled upon the exact article you are quoting there. <a href='http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/rt021203.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/r.../rt021203.shtml</a> .?It doesn't seem to have anything to do with using government spending to stimulate the economy. Its just seems to be an indictment of the progressive tax system, as exemplified by such statements as <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the minds of leftist economists, the economy does not exist so that productive individuals can enjoy the fruits of their labors. It exists for only one purpose: to divert money from the successful to the unsuccessful. If these economists seek to "stimulate" the economy, it is only so that productive people can, temporarily, become more vigorous draft-horses to drag along a cart loaded with an ever-heavier crowd of unproductive hitchhikers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Correct me if I'm wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes its about the progressive income tax but it also talks about kaiyen economics. The goverment needs money to spend money. So it needs a progresive tax to get more money. If the goverment could spend a bunch of money without taking it that would be fine by me but it can't. It has to take it from the investors and people. That media link also is shared by the author of this <a href='http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/046508138X/qid%3D977439735/sr%3D1-32/102-9649773-3194535' target='_blank'>book.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exsept people always want more stuff so the economy continues to grow.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Jul 16 2003, 03:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jul 16 2003, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Jul 16 2003, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Jul 16 2003, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+Jul 16 2003, 03:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ Jul 16 2003, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The World Bank comes along and forecloses your country :D <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When do they impose Armageddon on you, exactly? I think my country, (Canada), has been in the pits for awhile, and doesn't seem like the WB is out to get us anytime soon.
What's the time period before they come after you with a scythe? Or for this example, how much time does the US have to pay off the debt? Or do they only need to pay off some of it so they can stave some off D-day and STILL borrow more money? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> National Debt affects your country's imports and exports. When a country has a lot of debt it general has to pay higher prices on imports. It also has a range of effects on production taxes as well as how much goods a country may produce, the value of it's currency (inflation/deflation), even things like tourism.
Since 75% of a country's like US budget is made up of "soft" money there would be no practical way to collect on it anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So the world bank never actually "comes after you" right? A country can have a debt in the google range, but can still survive, it's just extremely difficult with how useless their currency is. Or are there actually 2 possible situations? The following 2 are both plausible?: either... <b>a)</b>The WB seizes control of the country's finances until it's stabilized.
or
<b>b)</b>If the country is skilled/lucky enough, it can manage to continue on; it's just that their currency sucks.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited July 2003
Someone from Canada or Europe (preferably from the Uk or Germany, I've always wanted to visit there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )please come knock me out and kidnap me and bring me over to where you live. PLEASE!!!
Should Bush be re-elected I personally request and demand that Fam or Nem 0 come get me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
By the way dont take this post seriously as to my own political opinions just trying to add some potential funnyness to this "Getting hotter by the second thread". <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--kida+Jul 17 2003, 12:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Jul 17 2003, 12:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We need a good leader like King Arthur
a person not spoiled by politics... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh we need a made up person?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh we need a made up person? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, we've already got one in office. We could do worse.
<!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Jul 17 2003, 12:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Jul 17 2003, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Jul 16 2003, 03:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jul 16 2003, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Jul 16 2003, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Jul 16 2003, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+Jul 16 2003, 03:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ Jul 16 2003, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The World Bank comes along and forecloses your country <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When do they impose Armageddon on you, exactly? I think my country, (Canada), has been in the pits for awhile, and doesn't seem like the WB is out to get us anytime soon.
What's the time period before they come after you with a scythe? Or for this example, how much time does the US have to pay off the debt? Or do they only need to pay off some of it so they can stave some off D-day and STILL borrow more money? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> National Debt affects your country's imports and exports. When a country has a lot of debt it general has to pay higher prices on imports. It also has a range of effects on production taxes as well as how much goods a country may produce, the value of it's currency (inflation/deflation), even things like tourism.
Since 75% of a country's like US budget is made up of "soft" money there would be no practical way to collect on it anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So the world bank never actually "comes after you" right? A country can have a debt in the google range, but can still survive, it's just extremely difficult with how useless their currency is. Or are there actually 2 possible situations? The following 2 are both plausible?: either... <b>a)</b>The WB seizes control of the country's finances until it's stabilized.
or
<b>b)</b>If the country is skilled/lucky enough, it can manage to continue on; it's just that their currency sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhh the former Soviet Union's rubel comes to mind. So yes a country can collect debt until it's currency is virutal useless and they have little or no means of production.
Some of the reasons European countries didn't want the war on Iraq to happen is because Iraq had consideral debts owed to them (I'm thinking of France here). Basically they knew if Saddam was taken from power they'd never see the money. This is of course the lesser part of their motive and there's nothing wrong with wanting to collect a debt before a goverment is destroyed.
And Bathroom Monkey: Unless that comment was meant to be a complete joke, stating "Bush is a made up person" isn't a very solid argument, so I wouldn't consider you bowed back in : P
<!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Jul 16 2003, 11:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Jul 16 2003, 11:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whoope, too bad a study of teachers across America shows that about 96.7 percent are indeed Left-wingers.
On top of that, you still have a left-wing media to turn to, I have to go out of my way to look for right-wing news coverage, on talk radio etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Who paid for the study, and where can I find it?
And I can't "turn to" the left-wing media. What am I supposed to do, write to CNN and complain about my hurt feewings? Furthermore, what's the definition of "right-wing" news coverage? As far as I can tell, it's just an excuse for conservatives to spout dogma and make lewd jokes about Clinton, with less actual reporting of world events going on.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Bathroom Monkey: Unless that comment was meant to be a complete joke, stating "Bush is a made up person" isn't a very solid argument, so I wouldn't consider you bowed back in : P <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, I'm not a person who blindly follows partisan lines. I'd vote for John McCain in a <i>heartbeat</i>.
I didn't like Clinton, but I could respect his intelligence . . . trailer park to Rhodes Scholar? That's an accomplishment.
But I loathe George Bush Jr.-- because he is a man who has never, <i>ever</i> suffered the consequence of his actions or his shortcomings. Bad grades? More time spent drinking than studying? He still attended two of the most prestigious schools in the nation, on name alone.
Failed businesses? Bad management? Illegal stock transactions?
Doesn't stop friends and family from dropping more coin in his lap to further his ambitions. The only thing that does stop is investigation into his questionable trade activity (His Harken dump, look it up).
And heck, a religious conversion years after his DUI causes everyone to forgive him his drinking troubles . . .
He's as made-up as they come-- somehow, Rove and Co have convinced us that he's a regular, straight-shooting, political outsider, evern though his reality is comically contrary to that.
Look beyond partisan lines. We deserve better than this. And I don't mean a democrat. There are plenty of people on both sides of the partisan line that I'd support instead of this meathead.
a quick comment - people are extremely angry over the WTC attacks. 3,000 people or so died. what these people don't realize is that far more people die in the us every year from car accidents and murders. the main threats to american citizens are not fundamentalist muslim countries. rather, the main threats are other americans.
Comments
Consumer confidence is such a volitile and imprecise factor that I'm a bit leery of any plan that is specifically designed to target it. Something like FDR's fireside chats could have just as much (if not more) of an effect on consumer confidence as a tax cut. One thing worth noting though, nothing kills consumer confidence more efficiently than a messy and time consuming war.
Edit: Dr. D, I agree with you whole-heartedly on the war on drugs. The amount of our production power that we waste on prosecuting marijuana offenders alone is rediculous.
:-\
Well, that's cause the fed was bein a bit St00pid, and tightened the money market after the stock market crashed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Alan Greenpan wouldn't let that happen. *prays*
anyways . . .
And Xzilen, I'm a liberal and I live in conservative central Pennsylvania. I've been graded down on papers just for saying negative things about the current administration, so I'm afraid I don't have any sympathy for people insulting you... I get touchy when people write books about liberals titled "Slander" and "Treason".
Well, that's cause the fed was bein a bit St00pid, and tightened the money market after the stock market crashed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Alan Greenpan wouldn't let that happen. *prays*
anyways . . . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The kind of economic policy your talking about Big goverment spending vs Small, is that big spending for the goverment is only short term. i.e. boost immediate consumer spending. That only deals with supplies we have now and dosen't go for really an exspansion of buisness. The decision to produce new goods, the decision to spend current revenues to build factories and hire workers is a matter, not of consumption, but of investment. Thats why that kind of economic policy is bad, its only short term. EPI economists single out this measure for special criticism, dismissing it as "not credible as a short-term stimulus."
If the buisness men and women the entrepreneurs have the money to expand buisness the economy will grow much better in time.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit]spallign bad![/edit]
I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its called plundering ect......
I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its called plundering ect...... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plundering? You mean like if the entire world turned into pirates?
Cool.
I'd be very interested to hear about an economic system that "easily solves" anything. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its called plundering ect...... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plundering? You mean like if the entire world turned into pirates?
Cool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol it would be more of a short term salvation, then where you run out of stuff to plunder, cuz when you do you=scewed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
edit: bad wording
Indeed... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
And Xzilen, I'm a liberal and I live in conservative central Pennsylvania. I've been graded down on papers just for saying negative things about the current administration, so I'm afraid I don't have any sympathy for people insulting you... I get touchy when people write books about liberals titled "Slander" and "Treason". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoope, too bad a study of teachers across America shows that about 96.7 percent are indeed Left-wingers.
On top of that, you still have a left-wing media to turn to, I have to go out of my way to look for right-wing news coverage, on talk radio etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes its about the progressive income tax but it also talks about kaiyen economics. The goverment needs money to spend money. So it needs a progresive tax to get more money. If the goverment could spend a bunch of money without taking it that would be fine by me but it can't. It has to take it from the investors and people. That media link also is shared by the author of this <a href='http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/046508138X/qid%3D977439735/sr%3D1-32/102-9649773-3194535' target='_blank'>book.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gotta love it when capitalists argue over how to overcome the shortcomings in the capitalist system which could be easily solved by switching to a system which does not rely on the expansion to new markets and therefore does not have an up and down economic death spiral.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exsept people always want more stuff so the economy continues to grow.
When do they impose Armageddon on you, exactly? I think my country, (Canada), has been in the pits for awhile, and doesn't seem like the WB is out to get us anytime soon.
What's the time period before they come after you with a scythe? Or for this example, how much time does the US have to pay off the debt? Or do they only need to pay off some of it so they can stave some off D-day and STILL borrow more money? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
National Debt affects your country's imports and exports. When a country has a lot of debt it general has to pay higher prices on imports. It also has a range of effects on production taxes as well as how much goods a country may produce, the value of it's currency (inflation/deflation), even things like tourism.
Since 75% of a country's like US budget is made up of "soft" money there would be no practical way to collect on it anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the world bank never actually "comes after you" right? A country can have a debt in the google range, but can still survive, it's just extremely difficult with how useless their currency is. Or are there actually 2 possible situations?
The following 2 are both plausible?: either...
<b>a)</b>The WB seizes control of the country's finances until it's stabilized.
or
<b>b)</b>If the country is skilled/lucky enough, it can manage to continue on; it's just that their currency sucks.
Should Bush be re-elected I personally request and demand that Fam or Nem 0 come get me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
By the way dont take this post seriously as to my own political opinions just trying to add some potential funnyness to this "Getting hotter by the second thread". <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
a person not spoiled by politics...
a person not spoiled by politics... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh we need a made up person?
Actually, we've already got one in office. We could do worse.
So much for bowing out . . .
When do they impose Armageddon on you, exactly? I think my country, (Canada), has been in the pits for awhile, and doesn't seem like the WB is out to get us anytime soon.
What's the time period before they come after you with a scythe? Or for this example, how much time does the US have to pay off the debt? Or do they only need to pay off some of it so they can stave some off D-day and STILL borrow more money? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
National Debt affects your country's imports and exports. When a country has a lot of debt it general has to pay higher prices on imports. It also has a range of effects on production taxes as well as how much goods a country may produce, the value of it's currency (inflation/deflation), even things like tourism.
Since 75% of a country's like US budget is made up of "soft" money there would be no practical way to collect on it anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the world bank never actually "comes after you" right? A country can have a debt in the google range, but can still survive, it's just extremely difficult with how useless their currency is. Or are there actually 2 possible situations?
The following 2 are both plausible?: either...
<b>a)</b>The WB seizes control of the country's finances until it's stabilized.
or
<b>b)</b>If the country is skilled/lucky enough, it can manage to continue on; it's just that their currency sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh the former Soviet Union's rubel comes to mind. So yes a country can collect debt until it's currency is virutal useless and they have little or no means of production.
Some of the reasons European countries didn't want the war on Iraq to happen is because Iraq had consideral debts owed to them (I'm thinking of France here). Basically they knew if Saddam was taken from power they'd never see the money. This is of course the lesser part of their motive and there's nothing wrong with wanting to collect a debt before a goverment is destroyed.
And Bathroom Monkey: Unless that comment was meant to be a complete joke, stating "Bush is a made up person" isn't a very solid argument, so I wouldn't consider you bowed back in : P
On top of that, you still have a left-wing media to turn to, I have to go out of my way to look for right-wing news coverage, on talk radio etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who paid for the study, and where can I find it?
And I can't "turn to" the left-wing media. What am I supposed to do, write to CNN and complain about my hurt feewings? Furthermore, what's the definition of "right-wing" news coverage? As far as I can tell, it's just an excuse for conservatives to spout dogma and make lewd jokes about Clinton, with less actual reporting of world events going on.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> yourself.
Look, I'm not a person who blindly follows partisan lines. I'd vote for John McCain in a <i>heartbeat</i>.
I didn't like Clinton, but I could respect his intelligence . . . trailer park to Rhodes Scholar? That's an accomplishment.
But I loathe George Bush Jr.-- because he is a man who has never, <i>ever</i> suffered the consequence of his actions or his shortcomings. Bad grades? More time spent drinking than studying? He still attended two of the most prestigious schools in the nation, on name alone.
Failed businesses? Bad management? Illegal stock transactions?
Doesn't stop friends and family from dropping more coin in his lap to further his ambitions. The only thing that does stop is investigation into his questionable trade activity (His Harken dump, look it up).
And heck, a religious conversion years after his DUI causes everyone to forgive him his drinking troubles . . .
He's as made-up as they come-- somehow, Rove and Co have convinced us that he's a regular, straight-shooting, political outsider, evern though his reality is comically contrary to that.
Look beyond partisan lines. We deserve better than this. And I don't mean a democrat. There are plenty of people on both sides of the partisan line that I'd support instead of this meathead.
and im proud of it
mommy can i go back yet?
[note: im stuck in kansas with parents, sux]
what these people don't realize is that far more people die in the us every year from car accidents and murders. the main threats to american citizens are not fundamentalist muslim countries. rather, the main threats are other americans.