After some consideration, I think my position has changed somewhat. Now, I do not think that releasing 2.0 a few days early would hurt the community. However, I am not too sure what the early release would accomplish. Perhaps I am missing the point. How many people actually pay for fileplanet and would download NS?
You see "Fileplanet Exclusive!". 99% of the time the exclusive are stuff I wish I could download also, and Im sure its the same for others. They see something in that big spot... many will download it and try it out.
Flayra, I don't think you should give up on the idea just by reading this post. The problem with a voluntary post (besides the poll) where people can voice opinions, is the people who usually are happy/don't care, don't post. yes the poll is vague are hard to answer for us, but if people had a <b>real</b> big problem with this idea, this post would be flooded, not just 7 pages of posts, only which half at most are complaints.
Im not wild about the idea myself, again, if its not for constellation members, but I understand what a good move this could be for the mod. Everyone that has posted here has made constructive arguments, with no "()@#& THE MOD, )(@#ers selling out" stuff, and that alone says a lot to me.
I can see why the Constellation release would not be feasable while a FilePlanet release would be more profitable. (both in revenue and players)
In an attempt to ease the worries of the Constellation members I would like to mention the following items. Remember that the main goal of the pre-release release is to increase both revenue and the NS playerbase.
Releasing on FilePlanet as opposed to Constellation would have the following advantages: (this is also assuming that under the FP agreement NS would not be released under another service)
1. Constellation members are already a part of the Natural Selection community. Very few people who are not NS community members know of the Constellation program. Thus while there would be a spike in Constellation membership, it would be internally supplied. Constellation would grow, NS would not.
2. Without a large fanbase, Constellation is not as profitable as it could be. While the goal of NS is not currently about making profits, it is necessary that sufficient funds are generated to support further development. Therefore the size of the community must be increased.
As a sort of consolation to Constellation members, Anyone who downloads from FilePlanet early would have to either set up their server, or find one set up by another FilePlanet downloader. I highly doubt that in 3 days someone new to NS would be able to set up a stable, successful server. So in essence, you wouldn't miss much.
I think it would be a bit of a slap in the face if Gamespy (or whatever) subscribers who have never shown an interest in NS suddenly get priority access whilst the loyal community (including constellation members and us poor skint admins) have to wait.
On the other hand I do think NS is fantastic and deserves more success than all the other mods put together. So if it helps the mod and/or the developers I'd have to say yes.
Then I think what kind of players will be brought in by this type of promotion and I worry. Perhaps wrongly...
I'm all for this. Anything that makes the game better is fine by me - if it's going to make the game more popular, it's good. If it gets Flayra some more cash, it's **** excellent!
Unfortunately, "community backlash" will always be an important issue to consider for any game or mod, and some people seem to think that those making great games like NS don't deserve any financial reward. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Eaglec - that's an important factor in my reasoning too, the "kind of player" brought in by such a promotion. However, if I was to be all utopian and idealistic about it I'd both spout the traditional "we were all newbies once" argument, and also take a leaf out of MonsE's book and say that it's the experienced community members' job/duty to help them become accustomed to the game.
Besides, one would hope that the necessity for teamwork in NS would weed out most of the undesirables, and of course I suppose that the kind of people who might messup our games aren't the kind of people who'd be bothered to subscribe to these services in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin--eaglec+Jul 22 2003, 05:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eaglec @ Jul 22 2003, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then I think what kind of players will be brought in by this type of promotion and I worry. Perhaps wrongly...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A mixed bag I would imagine, same as when NS first started popping up on magazine coverdisks..
If it gives the mod a bit of hype, and maybe generates some cash, great. A few more days wait makes very little difference to me.
Personally I would have loved to have seen some sort of semi-open beta test weeks ago. My greatest fear about 2.0 has, and still is, that public play may expose glaring problems. Veteran players playtesting a game is, of course, quite differant to the very varied ranges of skill and experiance that are seen on public servers. Even if it were only for 3 days or so, I would have liked this idea to go forwards to either confirm that 2.0 IS pub server friendly or at least to find any major flaws.
That said, I must admit that if such a service had been, or perhaps even is, offered to say Gamespy for example, I would be a little disheartened if Constellation members missed out. Having just gotten my first credit card (hey I managed to fend this develish things off until I was 22, curse you Ragnarok! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) I'm all ready to send off a nice donation from my modest student income to Flayra and Co. and I guess I would have felt a bit "left-out" if after I have done this, it was announced that a whole swag of people who quite probably have never heard of Flayra or the hard work he does got the product before people who have tried, in the most direct financial sence, to help out Flayra and his crew. Of course from a practical point of view I would know that getting the game out on one of those big subscribers gets NS huge publicity etc which can only be good. (btw I don't think Gamespy etc are evil <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I wouldn't feel betrayed, but I might feel a little less appreciated. I know that probably sounds selfish but I guess it's what I'd feel.
Again, the idea of a group of newbies getting the beta early doesn't bother me in principle as much as it seems to for a lot of people on this thread. Looking at this in a purely practical perspective, I think it would have negative side-effects on the beta testing in the last couple of days. Whether or not Flayra is willing to do that for extra publicity, I don't know.
I agree that allowing the "average joe" into the beta would give another perspective and help with balance, eventually. However, the only way to do this would be to make it a full open beta, and somewhat earlier than 3 days before release. The majority of the members on whatever the service is most likely have not played NS before, so what would actually be happening is a flood of newbies into the limited number of beta servers, who would effectively make it impossible to accurately judge the balance during the last couple of days. Of course there are real newbies in the regular game too, but not nearly as many over a small selection of servers as would be created by this promotion. I think the odds of it having any positive effects in the beta are slim given the time period, but it would limit beta progress during the last days to the point that it could leave 2.0 worse off for release.
Now, if Flayra honestly believes that he can continue to work on balance during the last couple of days in spite of this, or that balance will be basically done by then, then I think it's a good idea in the long run. NS could definitely use that kind of mainstream publicity, I just really wish there were a better idea on the table that wouldn't jeopardize the effectiveness of the beta.
Actually if the download was made available to constellation members AND fileplanet/whatever then I would say <b>absolutely yes</b>.
Whatever community it is released to it will be leaked within 24 hours though so it probably doesn't matter.
The devs (and other contributors) deserved to be paid very well for the time that they have put into this mod and the community deserves to grow. I am pretty sure that will not be disputed it's just a question of how.
It cost alot to buy the ammount of advertising that gamespy/fileplanet can genarate. We need that kind of advertising to grow. So there are only two options: 1. pony up massive amounts dough to buy publicity -or- 2. Trade somthing that gamespy/fileplanet will consider enough value to trade that kind of publisity for, such as you first born, or a exclusive beta only for there paying members.
I agree with what was said, about those who approve of the action/are indifferent about it are unlikely to post, so allow me to take the initiative...
Those of you who somehow feel offended, or more rightly, upset that this action wouldn't somehow benefit YOU, (ie, no cookie early therefore early-beta = bad move), you are selfish PIGS, and if I could, I'd **** on your home <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Players are the LIFEBLOOD of a mod. You sit in front of your computer, high and mighty, and claim to love NS so much, when in fact your actions directly betray your words. In your selfishness, you'd disallow the opportunity for the NS dev team to spread their vision all across the internet, most likely without costing them anything, a scenario in which they have everything to gain from an incredible amount of new exposure to their mod, and all the whiners on here can do is cry about how bad their feelings would be hurt.
That, my friends, tell me you're one of two types of people; a selfish ****, or too young and immature to think beyond the length of your own nose, and you disgust me.
edit ^ wow, in retrospect, i'm an angry person without coffee <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--eaglec+Jul 22 2003, 02:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eaglec @ Jul 22 2003, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually if the download was made available to constellation members AND fileplanet/whatever then I would say <b>absolutely yes</b>.
Whatever community it is released to it will be leaked within 24 hours though so it probably doesn't matter.
The devs (and other contributors) deserved to be paid very well for the time that they have put into this mod and the community deserves to grow. I am pretty sure that will not be disputed it's just a question of how. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I agree with you here; why not both?
As long as this has some kind of NS exclusivity, the NS community wouldn't feel left out at all.
I mean, giving an early release to NS constellation members would be, at best, a great big "<b>Thank You!</b> for making it all possible to work on such a wonderful project." A welcome surprise for sure.
Short version: you can newer alienate the hard-core fans because they love the game with passion, that's why they are called hard-core. However they will be hurt and there's the problem. Flayra and Flayra only can make the decision; gain more publicity but lose few percentages of respect from grumpy hc fans. It must be tough to choose between new and old players, seeing as both are just as valuable.
Of course it's far more complicated than old vs. new but basically it comes down to this. Community needs both to survive.
Edit: I guess I'm not helping much, stating the obvious <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, I agree with you here; why not both?
As long as this has some kind of NS exclusivity, the NS community wouldn't feel left out at all.
I mean, giving an early release to NS constellation members would be, at best, a great big "Thank You! for making it all possible to work on such a wonderful project." A welcome surprise for sure. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With you 100% there: a release to both would satisfy everyone I believe. The game gets publicity and the constellation members get a nice gift wrapped present. Everyone comes up roses <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Jul 22 2003, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jul 22 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> With you 100% there: a release to both would satisfy everyone I believe. The game gets publicity and the constellation members get a nice gift wrapped present. Everyone comes up roses <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How would you determine who's "hard core" enough? The people who joined the forums before a certain date? If that's the case, how would you identify them? Have everyone on the forums send Flayra their wonid's? Lotta extra work I'm sure the dev's don't want to have to do during the final days before launch...
<!--QuoteBegin--xioutlawix+Jul 22 2003, 03:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Jul 22 2003, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Jul 22 2003, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jul 22 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> With you 100% there: a release to both would satisfy everyone I believe. The game gets publicity and the constellation members get a nice gift wrapped present. Everyone comes up roses <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How would you determine who's "hard core" enough? The people who joined the forums before a certain date? If that's the case, how would you identify them? Have everyone on the forums send Flayra their wonid's? Lotta extra work I'm sure the dev's don't want to have to do during the final days before launch... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Huh?</span>
What are you talking about?
We are referring to who ever has donted money to Flay via the constellation program also gets the early semi-beta along with the FilePlanet members.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jul 22 2003, 02:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 22 2003, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What are you talking about?
We are referring to who ever has donted money to Flay via the constellation program also gets the early semi-beta along with the FilePlanet members. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oops, misquote. Was trying to reply to some of the previous posters who were saying that people who had 'been with NS since the beginning' deserved some sort of priority in regards to the release.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Jul 22 2003, 01:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jul 22 2003, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mean, giving an early release to NS constellation members would be, at best, a great big "Thank You! for making it all possible to work on such a wonderful project." A welcome surprise for sure. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With you 100% there: a release to both would satisfy everyone I believe. The game gets publicity and the constellation members get a nice gift wrapped present. Everyone comes up roses <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that would be a great idea. I for one don't donate any money, but I would really like to thank all those that have. They help make NS a success too, if not in quite the same way as the Dev team does. =p
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -President George Bush<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man, as both an athiest and a citizen, I'd like to see that man get punched in the head. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
oh well ... who gives a crap about the success of NS right? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/2/icon2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I mean ... we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings now, would we?
<!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Jul 22 2003, 10:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jul 22 2003, 10:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm fine with paying customers getting to skip the lines on Fileplanet, but it somehow disturbs me that they get preferential treatment to exclusive files and demos too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, it'd be a real pity if Fileplanet's customers got what they payed for.... They pay for the service, if you can't afford it get a job and quit whining on the forums.
Man there's alot of people whining on here. Especially about 'feeling betrayed' Jeez. You're getting a <b>free</b> game with more quality than some 'off the shelf' games that you have to pay for....and then you complain when Flayra suggests this.
I sort of forgot the reason i stopped posting on these forums ages ago. Now i remember why.
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Jul 22 2003, 08:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Jul 22 2003, 08:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Jul 22 2003, 10:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jul 22 2003, 10:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm fine with paying customers getting to skip the lines on Fileplanet, but it somehow disturbs me that they get preferential treatment to exclusive files and demos too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, it'd be a real pity if Fileplanet's customers got what they payed for.... They pay for the service, if you can't afford it get a job and quit whining on the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes they pay for a service and they deserve to get it, but consellation members pay too, in good faith helping the development on NS. I am not a consellation member - I just dont have any free cash right now (ask Roob), but I just want to let you know I am not saying this with my own interests to hand. I think recognition of the consellation members is nessessary to avoid their contributions drying up.
The problem I forsee is the next time soneone has some cash to give do they spend it on:- a.) the constellation program like they originally wanted to give to or b.) subscribing to {theservice} because they'll get some stuff back from it
So in the long term who wins most? Not Flayra, not NS and not us. {theservice} get the extra subscribers, free exclusive content for those subscribers and can boast "we got it first" to get more subscibers.
Constillation members didnt (or well, shouldn't have) sign up and donate money to Flayra and expect they deserve extra Perks.
Sure, you get the little Icon ... woop-de-do.
I always thought the Constillation program was put in place simply to give memebrs a way to donate to a game they like and help support Flayra - not as a way to "get things" later down the road because you fell your entitled to it.
He spent quite a bit of his savings working on NS. I can't take a guess to how much, because I honestly dont know. What I do know though is NS 2.0 probably never would have happened without the donations.
You shouldn't be donating to expect little perks and gifts, you should do it because you want to help support the game and Flayra. That's why its called a donation, not a "give me money and I'll give you cool things later-tion".
I'm just suggesting that if preferential treatment is to be given to a group of people those people who have really helped to bring about 2.0 should be included in that favoured group. I'd even dare to suggest that if this were possible it would be the post popular solution to this difficult problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--Silver Fox+Jul 22 2003, 03:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Silver Fox @ Jul 22 2003, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's why its called a donation, not a "give me money and I'll give you cool things later-tion". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bravo. Problem is that most here somehow feel they're entitled to something for breathing.
actually if it was made available to constellation members (possibly fileplanet but thats a big jump) and since constellation members would have their wonids already and and will be a part of the constellation auththenticating, thus the authentication method would allow for almost certain guarantee of exclusivity to paid members. My only question is, what about servers? I know if it is made available (and the linux build would have to be goodens by then) that my servers would be up, but we'd need a few more. And no I don't think of it as Flayras "ploy" to make $$, more like he would like a little pad on the back for his time, nothing more than that.
power to the release, I need more peeps to see my greatness in action RAWR!
DY357LXPlaying since day 1. Still can't Comm.EnglandJoin Date: 2002-10-27Member: 1651Members, Constellation
To be honest, I don't mind weather I get the MOD a few days early or not. I donated my $20 simply because I love Natural-Selection. As a game, as a community, as a fan! If Natural-Selection was on the shop shelves right now, i'd be out of the door and down into the town centre for my copy. Heck i'd probably buy one or two extra's and give them to friends who never played it order to convert them! In the past i've donated to Red Vs Blue, CS-Nation, and NS's constellation system. All because they're great "services" with a dedicated team behind them.
Flayra, Rizzuh, gUS, GFUNK, and the rest of them, all have to eat. They DON'T HAVE to provide us with hours upon hours of entertainment, humour, up to news and what-not.... but they do.
So i'll leave it at that for now. The morale of the story is... If its worth paying for, i will do so glady.
<!--QuoteBegin--Constellation Web Page+NS.org--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Constellation Web Page @ NS.org)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the future, more benefits may be given to Constellation members.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Releasing the "open beta" (which I think should be called a release candidate instead - pretty hard to do last minute beta testing...) to both the paid subscriber system Flayra alluded to and to Constellation members would, in my mind, be a nice benefit. Now Constellation members do not deserve to get NS 2.0 early, no one deserves to. It would just be nice way of saying "thanks for hanging in there".
That being said, anything Flayra & Co. want to do to boost the NS community is fine by me, as long as they stick with the July 31st release date (I'm a stickler for sticking to release dates - as I'm sure Flayra & Co. are as well).
In the meantime I'll be sitting in my NS 1.0 tee shirt waiting for my shiny 2.0 icon. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Again, good job guys, I can't wait.
<!--QuoteBegin--xioutlawix+Jul 22 2003, 03:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Jul 22 2003, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Silver Fox+Jul 22 2003, 03:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Silver Fox @ Jul 22 2003, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's why its called a donation, not a "give me money and I'll give you cool things later-tion". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bravo. Problem is that most here somehow feel they're entitled to something for breathing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not as if people have donated to constellation in the hopes of getting something extra in return. Those that have donated have done so for the shear love of NS, not the ability to play 3 days earlier. I'd say give these people what they deserve, a sneak peek at what they, in part, helped to fund.
And if this makes more people donate, what's the big deal? I wouldn't care if constellation members got to be in the playtesters beta, they certainly have put more into NS than game hours.
Remember, all those of you that haven't payed a thing (this includes me, by the way). We don't deserve anything, because we haven't helped NS to grow at all. Constellation members have helped NS, so why shouldn't they be entitled to reap more rewards than the rest of us? Its not as if Flayra is only giving 2.0 to people giving him money. Which, by the way, might be necessary if constellation weren't in place.
Same thing goes for FilePlanet. Do you think running web servers is free? If no money goes in, nothing comes out. And if nothing comes out, where are we supposed to download NS 2.0?
Comments
Now, I do not think that releasing 2.0 a few days early would hurt the community.
However, I am not too sure what the early release would accomplish. Perhaps I am missing the point.
How many people actually pay for fileplanet and would download NS?
Flayra, I don't think you should give up on the idea just by reading this post. The problem with a voluntary post (besides the poll) where people can voice opinions, is the people who usually are happy/don't care, don't post. yes the poll is vague are hard to answer for us, but if people had a <b>real</b> big problem with this idea, this post would be flooded, not just 7 pages of posts, only which half at most are complaints.
Im not wild about the idea myself, again, if its not for constellation members, but I understand what a good move this could be for the mod. Everyone that has posted here has made constructive arguments, with no "()@#& THE MOD, )(@#ers selling out" stuff, and that alone says a lot to me.
In an attempt to ease the worries of the Constellation members I would like to mention the following items.
Remember that the main goal of the pre-release release is to increase both revenue and the NS playerbase.
Releasing on FilePlanet as opposed to Constellation would have the following advantages:
(this is also assuming that under the FP agreement NS would not be released under another service)
1. Constellation members are already a part of the Natural Selection community. Very few people who are not NS community members know of the Constellation program. Thus while there would be a spike in Constellation membership, it would be internally supplied. Constellation would grow, NS would not.
2. Without a large fanbase, Constellation is not as profitable as it could be. While the goal of NS is not currently about making profits, it is necessary that sufficient funds are generated to support further development. Therefore the size of the community must be increased.
As a sort of consolation to Constellation members, Anyone who downloads from FilePlanet early would have to either set up their server, or find one set up by another FilePlanet downloader. I highly doubt that in 3 days someone new to NS would be able to set up a stable, successful server. So in essence, you wouldn't miss much.
On the other hand I do think NS is fantastic and deserves more success than all the other mods put together. So if it helps the mod and/or the developers I'd have to say yes.
Then I think what kind of players will be brought in by this type of promotion and I worry. Perhaps wrongly...
confused <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Unfortunately, "community backlash" will always be an important issue to consider for any game or mod, and some people seem to think that those making great games like NS don't deserve any financial reward. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Besides, one would hope that the necessity for teamwork in NS would weed out most of the undesirables, and of course I suppose that the kind of people who might messup our games aren't the kind of people who'd be bothered to subscribe to these services in the first place.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A mixed bag I would imagine, same as when NS first started popping up on magazine coverdisks..
If it gives the mod a bit of hype, and maybe generates some cash, great. A few more days wait makes very little difference to me.
/2p worth
That said, I must admit that if such a service had been, or perhaps even is, offered to say Gamespy for example, I would be a little disheartened if Constellation members missed out. Having just gotten my first credit card (hey I managed to fend this develish things off until I was 22, curse you Ragnarok! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) I'm all ready to send off a nice donation from my modest student income to Flayra and Co. and I guess I would have felt a bit "left-out" if after I have done this, it was announced that a whole swag of people who quite probably have never heard of Flayra or the hard work he does got the product before people who have tried, in the most direct financial sence, to help out Flayra and his crew. Of course from a practical point of view I would know that getting the game out on one of those big subscribers gets NS huge publicity etc which can only be good. (btw I don't think Gamespy etc are evil <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I wouldn't feel betrayed, but I might feel a little less appreciated. I know that probably sounds selfish but I guess it's what I'd feel.
I agree that allowing the "average joe" into the beta would give another perspective and help with balance, eventually. However, the only way to do this would be to make it a full open beta, and somewhat earlier than 3 days before release. The majority of the members on whatever the service is most likely have not played NS before, so what would actually be happening is a flood of newbies into the limited number of beta servers, who would effectively make it impossible to accurately judge the balance during the last couple of days. Of course there are real newbies in the regular game too, but not nearly as many over a small selection of servers as would be created by this promotion. I think the odds of it having any positive effects in the beta are slim given the time period, but it would limit beta progress during the last days to the point that it could leave 2.0 worse off for release.
Now, if Flayra honestly believes that he can continue to work on balance during the last couple of days in spite of this, or that balance will be basically done by then, then I think it's a good idea in the long run. NS could definitely use that kind of mainstream publicity, I just really wish there were a better idea on the table that wouldn't jeopardize the effectiveness of the beta.
Whatever community it is released to it will be leaked within 24 hours though so it probably doesn't matter.
The devs (and other contributors) deserved to be paid very well for the time that they have put into this mod and the community deserves to grow. I am pretty sure that will not be disputed it's just a question of how.
We need that kind of advertising to grow.
So there are only two options:
1. pony up massive amounts dough to buy publicity
-or-
2. Trade somthing that gamespy/fileplanet will consider enough value to trade that kind of publisity for, such as you first born, or a exclusive beta only for there paying members.
Those of you who somehow feel offended, or more rightly, upset that this action wouldn't somehow benefit YOU, (ie, no cookie early therefore early-beta = bad move), you are selfish PIGS, and if I could, I'd **** on your home <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Players are the LIFEBLOOD of a mod. You sit in front of your computer, high and mighty, and claim to love NS so much, when in fact your actions directly betray your words. In your selfishness, you'd disallow the opportunity for the NS dev team to spread their vision all across the internet, most likely without costing them anything, a scenario in which they have everything to gain from an incredible amount of new exposure to their mod, and all the whiners on here can do is cry about how bad their feelings would be hurt.
That, my friends, tell me you're one of two types of people; a selfish ****, or too young and immature to think beyond the length of your own nose, and you disgust me.
edit ^ wow, in retrospect, i'm an angry person without coffee <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Whatever community it is released to it will be leaked within 24 hours though so it probably doesn't matter.
The devs (and other contributors) deserved to be paid very well for the time that they have put into this mod and the community deserves to grow. I am pretty sure that will not be disputed it's just a question of how. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I agree with you here; why not both?
As long as this has some kind of NS exclusivity, the NS community wouldn't feel left out at all.
I mean, giving an early release to NS constellation members would be, at best, a great big "<b>Thank You!</b> for making it all possible to work on such a wonderful project." A welcome surprise for sure.
Of course it's far more complicated than old vs. new but basically it comes down to this. Community needs both to survive.
Edit: I guess I'm not helping much, stating the obvious <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As long as this has some kind of NS exclusivity, the NS community wouldn't feel left out at all.
I mean, giving an early release to NS constellation members would be, at best, a great big "Thank You! for making it all possible to work on such a wonderful project." A welcome surprise for sure. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With you 100% there: a release to both would satisfy everyone I believe. The game gets publicity and the constellation members get a nice gift wrapped present. Everyone comes up roses <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
How would you determine who's "hard core" enough?
The people who joined the forums before a certain date?
If that's the case, how would you identify them? Have everyone on the forums send Flayra their wonid's?
Lotta extra work I'm sure the dev's don't want to have to do during the final days before launch...
How would you determine who's "hard core" enough?
The people who joined the forums before a certain date?
If that's the case, how would you identify them? Have everyone on the forums send Flayra their wonid's?
Lotta extra work I'm sure the dev's don't want to have to do during the final days before launch... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Huh?</span>
What are you talking about?
We are referring to who ever has donted money to Flay via the constellation program also gets the early semi-beta along with the FilePlanet members.
We are referring to who ever has donted money to Flay via the constellation program also gets the early semi-beta along with the FilePlanet members. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oops, misquote. Was trying to reply to some of the previous posters who were saying that people who had 'been with NS since the beginning' deserved some sort of priority in regards to the release.
With you 100% there: a release to both would satisfy everyone I believe. The game gets publicity and the constellation members get a nice gift wrapped present. Everyone comes up roses <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that would be a great idea. I for one don't donate any money, but I would really like to thank all those that have. They help make NS a success too, if not in quite the same way as the Dev team does. =p
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
-President George Bush<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man, as both an athiest and a citizen, I'd like to see that man get punched in the head. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/2/icon2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I mean ... we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings now, would we?
<3 Flayra
Yeah, it'd be a real pity if Fileplanet's customers got what they payed for....
They pay for the service, if you can't afford it get a job and quit whining on the forums.
Especially about 'feeling betrayed' Jeez. You're getting a <b>free</b> game with more quality than some 'off the shelf' games that you have to pay for....and then you complain when Flayra suggests this.
I sort of forgot the reason i stopped posting on these forums ages ago. Now i remember why.
Yeah, it'd be a real pity if Fileplanet's customers got what they payed for....
They pay for the service, if you can't afford it get a job and quit whining on the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes they pay for a service and they deserve to get it, but consellation members pay too, in good faith helping the development on NS.
I am not a consellation member - I just dont have any free cash right now (ask Roob), but I just want to let you know I am not saying this with my own interests to hand. I think recognition of the consellation members is nessessary to avoid their contributions drying up.
The problem I forsee is the next time soneone has some cash to give do they spend it on:-
a.) the constellation program like they originally wanted to give to or
b.) subscribing to {theservice} because they'll get some stuff back from it
So in the long term who wins most? Not Flayra, not NS and not us. {theservice} get the extra subscribers, free exclusive content for those subscribers and can boast "we got it first" to get more subscibers.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*{theservice} = fileplanet/gamespy/whatever.</span>
Constillation members didnt (or well, shouldn't have) sign up and donate money to Flayra and expect they deserve extra Perks.
Sure, you get the little Icon ... woop-de-do.
I always thought the Constillation program was put in place simply to give memebrs a way to donate to a game they like and help support Flayra - not as a way to "get things" later down the road because you fell your entitled to it.
He spent quite a bit of his savings working on NS. I can't take a guess to how much, because I honestly dont know. What I do know though is NS 2.0 probably never would have happened without the donations.
You shouldn't be donating to expect little perks and gifts, you should do it because you want to help support the game and Flayra. That's why its called a donation, not a "give me money and I'll give you cool things later-tion".
Bravo. Problem is that most here somehow feel they're entitled to something for breathing.
power to the release, I need more peeps to see my greatness in action RAWR!
or not. I donated my $20 simply because I love Natural-Selection.
As a game, as a community, as a fan! If Natural-Selection
was on the shop shelves right now, i'd be out of the door and down
into the town centre for my copy. Heck i'd probably buy one or two extra's
and give them to friends who never played it order to convert them!
In the past i've donated to Red Vs Blue, CS-Nation, and NS's constellation
system. All because they're great "services" with a dedicated team behind them.
Flayra, Rizzuh, gUS, GFUNK, and the rest of them, all have to eat. They
DON'T HAVE to provide us with hours upon hours of entertainment, humour,
up to news and what-not.... but they do.
So i'll leave it at that for now. The morale of the story is...
If its worth paying for, i will do so glady.
Releasing the "open beta" (which I think should be called a release candidate instead - pretty hard to do last minute beta testing...) to both the paid subscriber system Flayra alluded to and to Constellation members would, in my mind, be a nice benefit. Now Constellation members do not deserve to get NS 2.0 early, no one deserves to. It would just be nice way of saying "thanks for hanging in there".
That being said, anything Flayra & Co. want to do to boost the NS community is fine by me, as long as they stick with the July 31st release date (I'm a stickler for sticking to release dates - as I'm sure Flayra & Co. are as well).
In the meantime I'll be sitting in my NS 1.0 tee shirt waiting for my shiny 2.0 icon. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Again, good job guys, I can't wait.
Bravo. Problem is that most here somehow feel they're entitled to something for breathing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not as if people have donated to constellation in the hopes of getting something extra in return. Those that have donated have done so for the shear love of NS, not the ability to play 3 days earlier. I'd say give these people what they deserve, a sneak peek at what they, in part, helped to fund.
And if this makes more people donate, what's the big deal? I wouldn't care if constellation members got to be in the playtesters beta, they certainly have put more into NS than game hours.
Remember, all those of you that haven't payed a thing (this includes me, by the way). We don't deserve anything, because we haven't helped NS to grow at all. Constellation members have helped NS, so why shouldn't they be entitled to reap more rewards than the rest of us? Its not as if Flayra is only giving 2.0 to people giving him money. Which, by the way, might be necessary if constellation weren't in place.
Same thing goes for FilePlanet. Do you think running web servers is free? If no money goes in, nothing comes out. And if nothing comes out, where are we supposed to download NS 2.0?