Bah, you're just not fighting them correctly. First, part of your team should be shotties... My recommendation is at least one jetpack shotty, preferably with L3 weapons. He will tear that onos to pieces. Pop pop, dead. Scan periodically, reveal cloaked onos... In the end, you'll only lose one or two heavies at most, and you can always re-equip and build a phase to phase to the rest of the group. Of course, this can be defeated with teamwork, like all tactics... Acid rocket, xeno, etc... But lone oni will no longer be the bane of your little assault squad.
That said, I prefer two jetpack shotties or a jetpack shotty and a jetpack gl. Combine with 3 heavies and you will smack the aliens back to the Khaara homeworld (assuming they don't have web...)
Granted, perhaps I haven't been playing enough, but I have done 10-20 matches since the release and I have NEVER seen marines even come close to winning. Some might say "Well the marines weren't working together", but prior to this post I just played a game with two guys that were in a clan together, who were working well together, then me and my friend who always work well together. We secured a hive, grabbed several nodes, and defended them, didn't waste money, went for upgrades and techs, yet we had Fades and Onos attacking our base very quickly, and our LMGs, and light armor wasn't doing squat. We finally saved up to give everyone HA and HMGs. One stayed in base to hold them off, the other 3 went for a hive. We took the hive, but that time had our base ripped apart, we relocated, but just couldn't hold off the Onos, and Fades, and Skulks.
I've played different strategies, different commanders, and I've yet to see something that works. People say Aliens require alot of teamwork now, which I don't see is true at all, many times I've been a Onos with Regen, and rip apart Turret Farms because my regen heals most, if not all, of the damage the turrets give me. Heck, one map I was useless to my team. I ran around as a gorge and put sensory chambers all over the map. It might have been mildly helpful, but I did nothing strategic at all for my teamates.
I really want to know these servers where you claim to have the Marines holding down two hives, or the Marines actually getting a victory (Especially that guy that had 26 marine victories). Now I do agree several of the losses have been because of poor commanders, or poor teamwork, but this last map was an example of a good commander, a good team, but just being overpowered.
No matter what happens, I've only seen it happen one way. Game starts, marines and aliens fight for awhile, Fades and Onos appear, Aliens push marines back to their base, and keep them there, then after awhile finally break the defenses and kill them off. It's made the game alot more boring in my opinion.
But I will acknowledge that I haven't played enough to say if it's just because it's a different way of playing, or if the game is actually unbalanced, so I'll continue playing and continue to find out what I think of it. This is only after a relatively short amount of experience.
Whoever plays better wins. The wins have been very even for me. A lot of people on good servers catch on quick. The entire alien team once went all gorge and all dropped either 1 rt or upgrade chamber. Marines saw 1v rt and they crapped their pants. GG
Granted, perhaps I haven't been playing enough, but I have done 10-20 matches since the release <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't take this personal...
But "Holy codwallops!" 20 games my my!
Gentlemen...
We've had NS for 4 days now...
4 days is nothing compared to the countless hours we've played 1.04, and it's nothing towards the months spent on developing and playtesting ns 2.0
If you think it's unbalanced, well then you are trying thw wrong strategies and you are still living in a world called 1.04, or maybe we aren't all the amazing players we think we are <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Point is, none of us can say anything about the game being even yes/no, we can only do that after at least a couple of month's time when we've had as much experience as the vets/pt's have now.
With that I end my rant, and I do hope we can get rid of threads like this soon, even if they are just normal discussions where people say things that can be argumented with examples form the game itself.
(my 1337speak sucks... I know... It was intentional <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I tend to catch onto games relatively quiclky, I'm not saying "I can play for 5 minutes and know everything there is to know", but I've always been adaptable in my games.
In 1.04 I know it wasn't perfect, but there was alot of variety to most games. Yes, sometimes there were JP/HMG rushes, and sometimes they got screwed, sometimes it's a rush to lock down the hives, and seige the remaining one. Sadly I didn't see much HA used in general, but the fact was there were lots of ways for each team to win, but now in every single game I've played it's always gone down the exact same way no matter what strategy is tried. Which, in my opinion, gets very boring.
Somethings annoy me but I could live with, like the fact you can't jump over Stomp (if you actually can, let me know cause I've never been able to do that), or how you can't shoot while Stomped. It's apart of the game play, no big deal.
My opinion is just a "first impression" perhaps in a few weeks I'll change my mind as marine players in general get to be better players. You mentioned it has been play-tested for months and that I should simply trust they knew what they were doing, and I don't mean any disrespect towards the testers, but alot of people play differently, perhaps it was "balanced" for how they played, that would make it a very narrow view.
People said it was tested by over 100 people, which I think is a tiny sampling especially considering how many people play NS. Again, this isn't meant as an insult to the creators or the testers, but many coporations hold beta phases to make the game balanced, but even they can't get it perfect for release. Also there is the narrowness of views, who can say if they looked at the problem from all angles?
They also only accepted clans into the playtesting phase, I personally am not in a clan, I don't find them interesting, so I just pub. Clans and pubs are vastly different, if it's "balanced" for a clan match doesn't mean it holds it's balance for a pub game.
when even playtesting clans cant beat non-PT clans when the PT players are marine , something is up. in matches the aliens are way too overpowered and ive only seen 3 marine wins out of closing 30 games. Thats including PT clans and non-PT clans. Of some of the PT clans ive talked to theyve said they dont know any decent marine tac's that can beat the current alien tactics and the aliens are just too powerful early game.
winning 1 game in 10 . reminds me of aliens in 1.04 ..... not balanced
I've only played a couple games, screwed around in my LAN server for a few hours, and speced a few games, and I'm going to say that I think it favors the aliens slightly. I can't really pin it on a how or why, but I think the commander gets really overwhelmed.
Actually in my first game, we put sens up first, and I got the top of the leaderboard in kills. I had so much res we kicked the marines out of one of the hives with just constant bilebomb, and we had 3 hives up in no time.
In 1.04, 3 hives meant game over. I think it's been slightly changed so 3 hives is still winnable (When my onos died we got pushed back), but we still plowed over them.
I think the problem is that you get res for killing as an alien. Meanwhile, marines are fighting to SAVE res, and loose some every time they respawn. Which happens quite often.
So that results in the marines playing conservatively, trying to keep up with the aliens, who are making out like pirates on resources.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited August 2003
For those annoyed at Devour + Redemption Onii: Use shotguns. Literally, that is the counter. People complain constantly about it, but do not realize just how FRAGILE one is. A single shotgunner will *kill* (not redeem) one in around half a magazine. Meaning more or less five rounds, so long as they are at point-blank, and the HMGers <b>stop firing</b>. A pair of JP/Shotties will quite easily take down a redemption onos in seconds, if it does not have support. And if those shotguns are upgraded to L3, the onos will not reach the minimum redemption point before one point-blank will kill it.
The game is painfully balanced. Our 160+ Vets plus PT group saw to that, in many ways. If I had to place a balance-slant though, I would have to say that it is slightly tipping toward the Marines due to a few strats that had come up previously, but may not yet have made it out into the general field.
And as for Vet Marines not being able to win against Non-Vet clanner Aliens... you need to remember two things. One, PTs and Vets have been helping this to evolve. We have been eased into what 2.0 has become, but that does not mean we were playing the final version for five months. In fact, the final build only was in existance a few days before release. Two, some clanners know how to work very well as an organized team. However, the degree in which that operates differs. Some clanners work better as a team of autonomous individuals, only loosely updating one another about enemy movements and points of contention, relying on 'skillz' to prevail. Others function more as a contiguous whole, supporting one another and complementing each other's abilities. You may have simply been watching one of the former group, whereas the latter tend to dominate as Marines like nobody's business.
Oh, and three. Everyone has off-days. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
(edit-P.S. Res towers do <b>not</b> have activation time, it was removed in one of the final builds intentionally.) (re-edit-P.P.S. Marines get res for kills as well, and do NOT cost res to spawn.)
That's another thing I don't like about 2.0: The tower abilities don't supplement the respective upgrade (Cloak, regen, and adren), they completely replace them. A movement chamber gives you so much adreneline you can keep a constant umbra up. It's almost as bad as several GLers at an armory.
I would've preferred it if the upgrades were better then the tower abilities, not the other way around.
Funny how the people who think it <b>is</b> even say to people who think that it <b>isnt</b> even "how can u say that it <b>isnt even</b> , its only been out for 4 days".
How can u say it <b>is even</b>, its been out for 4 days?
Yeah firstly nice to see our other thread was closed entirely because Flayra asked for no balancing threads and not because you dont like what was in it and/or us.
Publics are an absolute nightmare, and the people that have said it's balanced in this thread have provided the answer: The only chance you have of winning, since public is mixed skill, is working as a team. Which doesn't happen on your average public server. Prime example: people saving for onos because its now available at one hive. Despite various people explaining why it's not a good idea they continued to do it the whole time I was there. As said before, alien wins are easier to come by because if you play well yourself you can get the hive up and get chambers almost alone.
Whereas marine is rare. Team work is absolutely essential with marine, the only imes I've seen marines win is when I'm with people I know that will do as a comm asks and work well.
That's why NS fails so much in public, I think you expect far too much of people.
And what Anim pointed out is very true. At top level games are won by aliens everytime, unless a HUGE mistake is made.
Those that say it's only been out 4 days, look how long 1.04 took. 1.04 tactics were realised very fast at top level, did you not know? It's very possible to realise 2.0's faults already, accept it.
Note: I was told that 2.0 is essentially a public beta by someone who said I shouldnt have posted on the forums.. if so why all the hype? There was even a movie and everything..
Comments
Bah, you're just not fighting them correctly. First, part of your team should be shotties... My recommendation is at least one jetpack shotty, preferably with L3 weapons. He will tear that onos to pieces. Pop pop, dead. Scan periodically, reveal cloaked onos... In the end, you'll only lose one or two heavies at most, and you can always re-equip and build a phase to phase to the rest of the group. Of course, this can be defeated with teamwork, like all tactics... Acid rocket, xeno, etc... But lone oni will no longer be the bane of your little assault squad.
That said, I prefer two jetpack shotties or a jetpack shotty and a jetpack gl. Combine with 3 heavies and you will smack the aliens back to the Khaara homeworld (assuming they don't have web...)
Granted, perhaps I haven't been playing enough, but I have done 10-20 matches since the release and I have NEVER seen marines even come close to winning. Some might say "Well the marines weren't working together", but prior to this post I just played a game with two guys that were in a clan together, who were working well together, then me and my friend who always work well together. We secured a hive, grabbed several nodes, and defended them, didn't waste money, went for upgrades and techs, yet we had Fades and Onos attacking our base very quickly, and our LMGs, and light armor wasn't doing squat. We finally saved up to give everyone HA and HMGs. One stayed in base to hold them off, the other 3 went for a hive. We took the hive, but that time had our base ripped apart, we relocated, but just couldn't hold off the Onos, and Fades, and Skulks.
I've played different strategies, different commanders, and I've yet to see something that works. People say Aliens require alot of teamwork now, which I don't see is true at all, many times I've been a Onos with Regen, and rip apart Turret Farms because my regen heals most, if not all, of the damage the turrets give me. Heck, one map I was useless to my team. I ran around as a gorge and put sensory chambers all over the map. It might have been mildly helpful, but I did nothing strategic at all for my teamates.
I really want to know these servers where you claim to have the Marines holding down two hives, or the Marines actually getting a victory (Especially that guy that had 26 marine victories). Now I do agree several of the losses have been because of poor commanders, or poor teamwork, but this last map was an example of a good commander, a good team, but just being overpowered.
No matter what happens, I've only seen it happen one way. Game starts, marines and aliens fight for awhile, Fades and Onos appear, Aliens push marines back to their base, and keep them there, then after awhile finally break the defenses and kill them off. It's made the game alot more boring in my opinion.
But I will acknowledge that I haven't played enough to say if it's just because it's a different way of playing, or if the game is actually unbalanced, so I'll continue playing and continue to find out what I think of it. This is only after a relatively short amount of experience.
Whoever plays better wins. The wins have been very even for me. A lot of people on good servers catch on quick. The entire alien team once went all gorge and all dropped either 1 rt or upgrade chamber. Marines saw 1v rt and they crapped their pants. GG
Also marines tend to rambo much less.
I guess I'm just <b>lucky</b>.
Granted, perhaps I haven't been playing enough, but I have done 10-20 matches since the release <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't take this personal...
But "Holy codwallops!" 20 games my my!
Gentlemen...
We've had NS for 4 days now...
4 days is nothing compared to the countless hours we've played 1.04, and it's nothing towards the months spent on developing and playtesting ns 2.0
If you think it's unbalanced, well then you are trying thw wrong strategies and you are still living in a world called 1.04, or maybe we aren't all the amazing players we think we are <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Point is, none of us can say anything about the game being even yes/no, we can only do that after at least a couple of month's time when we've had as much experience as the vets/pt's have now.
With that I end my rant, and I do hope we can get rid of threads like this soon, even if they are just normal discussions where people say things that can be argumented with examples form the game itself.
My point:
Shut j00z traps j00z n00bzorz, cos j00z d00z n00t nooz w00t y00r t00king ab00t....
*ahem*
(my 1337speak sucks... I know... It was intentional <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
It's very even...
Dare I say too even? Each battle is just an endless scrap.
With 1.04 there were phases to the battle.
1) skulk / LMG rushes
2) JP HMG
3) Fades
4) HA HMG
5) Onos
That was how the game progressed, I believe it would have been solved by making the fade a hive 1 alien and onos a hive 2...
But... as it stands, lerk is very useful now, spores are often used etc.
It all seems a bit 'too' even, HMGs are as they should be now, Shotties are insanely good anti-Fade / Onos and GL is as it should be.
I think a little more disharmony between game phases would be nice. Just my opinion...
In 1.04 I know it wasn't perfect, but there was alot of variety to most games. Yes, sometimes there were JP/HMG rushes, and sometimes they got screwed, sometimes it's a rush to lock down the hives, and seige the remaining one. Sadly I didn't see much HA used in general, but the fact was there were lots of ways for each team to win, but now in every single game I've played it's always gone down the exact same way no matter what strategy is tried. Which, in my opinion, gets very boring.
Somethings annoy me but I could live with, like the fact you can't jump over Stomp (if you actually can, let me know cause I've never been able to do that), or how you can't shoot while Stomped. It's apart of the game play, no big deal.
My opinion is just a "first impression" perhaps in a few weeks I'll change my mind as marine players in general get to be better players. You mentioned it has been play-tested for months and that I should simply trust they knew what they were doing, and I don't mean any disrespect towards the testers, but alot of people play differently, perhaps it was "balanced" for how they played, that would make it a very narrow view.
People said it was tested by over 100 people, which I think is a tiny sampling especially considering how many people play NS. Again, this isn't meant as an insult to the creators or the testers, but many coporations hold beta phases to make the game balanced, but even they can't get it perfect for release. Also there is the narrowness of views, who can say if they looked at the problem from all angles?
They also only accepted clans into the playtesting phase, I personally am not in a clan, I don't find them interesting, so I just pub. Clans and pubs are vastly different, if it's "balanced" for a clan match doesn't mean it holds it's balance for a pub game.
winning 1 game in 10 . reminds me of aliens in 1.04 ..... not balanced
Actually in my first game, we put sens up first, and I got the top of the leaderboard in kills. I had so much res we kicked the marines out of one of the hives with just constant bilebomb, and we had 3 hives up in no time.
In 1.04, 3 hives meant game over. I think it's been slightly changed so 3 hives is still winnable (When my onos died we got pushed back), but we still plowed over them.
I think the problem is that you get res for killing as an alien. Meanwhile, marines are fighting to SAVE res, and loose some every time they respawn. Which happens quite often.
So that results in the marines playing conservatively, trying to keep up with the aliens, who are making out like pirates on resources.
Use shotguns. Literally, that is the counter. People complain constantly about it, but do not realize just how FRAGILE one is. A single shotgunner will *kill* (not redeem) one in around half a magazine. Meaning more or less five rounds, so long as they are at point-blank, and the HMGers <b>stop firing</b>. A pair of JP/Shotties will quite easily take down a redemption onos in seconds, if it does not have support. And if those shotguns are upgraded to L3, the onos will not reach the minimum redemption point before one point-blank will kill it.
The game is painfully balanced. Our 160+ Vets plus PT group saw to that, in many ways. If I had to place a balance-slant though, I would have to say that it is slightly tipping toward the Marines due to a few strats that had come up previously, but may not yet have made it out into the general field.
And as for Vet Marines not being able to win against Non-Vet clanner Aliens... you need to remember two things. One, PTs and Vets have been helping this to evolve. We have been eased into what 2.0 has become, but that does not mean we were playing the final version for five months. In fact, the final build only was in existance a few days before release.
Two, some clanners know how to work very well as an organized team. However, the degree in which that operates differs. Some clanners work better as a team of autonomous individuals, only loosely updating one another about enemy movements and points of contention, relying on 'skillz' to prevail. Others function more as a contiguous whole, supporting one another and complementing each other's abilities. You may have simply been watching one of the former group, whereas the latter tend to dominate as Marines like nobody's business.
Oh, and three. Everyone has off-days. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
(edit-P.S. Res towers do <b>not</b> have activation time, it was removed in one of the final builds intentionally.)
(re-edit-P.P.S. Marines get res for kills as well, and do NOT cost res to spawn.)
That's another thing I don't like about 2.0: The tower abilities don't supplement the respective upgrade (Cloak, regen, and adren), they completely replace them. A movement chamber gives you so much adreneline you can keep a constant umbra up. It's almost as bad as several GLers at an armory.
I would've preferred it if the upgrades were better then the tower abilities, not the other way around.
Funny how the people who think it <b>is</b> even say to people who think that it <b>isnt</b> even "how can u say that it <b>isnt even</b> , its only been out for 4 days".
How can u say it <b>is even</b>, its been out for 4 days?
Publics are an absolute nightmare, and the people that have said it's balanced in this thread have provided the answer: The only chance you have of winning, since public is mixed skill, is working as a team. Which doesn't happen on your average public server. Prime example: people saving for onos because its now available at one hive. Despite various people explaining why it's not a good idea they continued to do it the whole time I was there. As said before, alien wins are easier to come by because if you play well yourself you can get the hive up and get chambers almost alone.
Whereas marine is rare. Team work is absolutely essential with marine, the only imes I've seen marines win is when I'm with people I know that will do as a comm asks and work well.
That's why NS fails so much in public, I think you expect far too much of people.
And what Anim pointed out is very true. At top level games are won by aliens everytime, unless a HUGE mistake is made.
Those that say it's only been out 4 days, look how long 1.04 took. 1.04 tactics were realised very fast at top level, did you not know? It's very possible to realise 2.0's faults already, accept it.
Note: I was told that 2.0 is essentially a public beta by someone who said I shouldnt have posted on the forums.. if so why all the hype? There was even a movie and everything..
Anyway, a blend of the various aliens and the marines WILL fall.
An Onos to eat up HA/smash things.
A lerk to umbra the onos and acid-spore down jetpackers.
A fade to shoot things far away.
And a fattie to spam heal everything/build chambers everywhere.
Trust in the balance, and it will come. Play like it's v1.04 and...