<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. Why on earth would you encourage them. Hunting for fellow humans controlling marines/aliens is fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Turret farms -- they are easy to take down. Get a lerk to cover a gorge in umbra, maybe two of them with adrenline and have skulks guard the gorge. Heres a newsflash!: The turret farm was owned, in a mere minute.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds. Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. Instead, for marines, we now get global spam of waypoints and commander activity. Do I need to know that my commander has dropped 3 medpacks on the other side of the map? Chinese water torture, anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spamming chuckle is hardly fun. I remember a person that ruined that for the whole game by sitting under the docking wing bridge in nothing just spamming it. No one could shoot him. Ya, thats tons of fun. Plus, I do really wanna hear somone studder out the phrase "I just lost my appitate," fifty times...great fun. Plus, that global spam of waypoints will help you find out what the commander is doing. If you ask for a medpack, just look in that area to see when their droped. They might not be right on top of you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jetpacks are fine now, just want they need to be. Get to those extra spots where no one can get ya, not hover around hive like a dumbas*.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of Nancy. Best map in 1.04.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><u><i>They cant help the fact that the nancy files were lost during a crash, stop nit picking just to make the thread longer.</i></u></b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shotgun is fine, now you can actually get in a couple of shots before the thing kills you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of leap. The delay in fastswitch has greatly hindered the effectiveness of leap strikes or leap-biting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The leap is switching fast enough for me...dont know whats wrong with it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scanning has to do with gameplay. Put an obs near the action, this whole game is about stragety.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(Meh, I cant find the quote, had some huge complaint about devour and it being boring sitting inside the onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is devour supposed to take you to the playboy mansion? Is it <i>supposed</i> to be be a blast sitting inside an onos?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of babblers. They were hilarious and humiliating. Enough said. Devour can't hold a candle to babblers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MY GOD BABBLERS WERE USELESS. IF YOU HAVE FUN LAUGHING AT SOMETHING SLOWLY SINK INTO THE FLOOR WHY CANT YOU HAVE FUN WITH IMPROVED VISUALS!?!?!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Communism is balanced, playing golf against Tiger Woods is not. Which is more fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather take over the world than play golf anyday.
The only aspect of 2.0 that I feel is significantly less fun is the shortening of the early game, where vanilla marines smack skulks around. Fades come too fast (though they're working to fix that), and lmg marines just aren't a threat to jack diddly squat after a little while. Skulks get arse-whooped by just about everything... Which makes me sad, since that's my favorite part of Natural Selection (skulk versus vanillas). However, the huge improvements elsewhere have made it tons of fun... Everything from hammer and anvil gorging to lerk area denial before d chambers (quite the adrenaline pumper). 2.0 is TONS of fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--chowder+Aug 6 2003, 01:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chowder @ Aug 6 2003, 01:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gone is the fun of leap. The delay in fastswitch has greatly hindered the effectiveness of leap strikes or leap-biting. Gone is the fun of webbing. Webbing was an essential skill in 1.04 to protect first two hives. It's only a nice-thing-to-have in 2.0, and almost an afterthought. Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl. Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds. Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i didn't read any of the replies, but here is what i agree with, and also some of the other fun parts of 1.04 that are gone D:
Lerk Bite. Fun as hell, but the newbie **** couldn't learn how to fly around biting peoples heads off so bye bye lerk bite! Bhopping as Marines. Oh look, something else that required some skill that is now gone. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
For NS 3.0 we should take away manual aiming and add auto-aim, and while you're add it give aliens a wallhack, that way it will be even for everyone. And I probably won't read this thread so if you want to say something to me stop by #redemption
Though I have had lots of fun on 1.x, I think I enjoy 2.0 much, much more.
To me, it's just as fun, and you seem to have more control of things if you screw up, there's always a chance to fight back and win, which makes the games a lot more involved. Unless there's a huge skills defecit on one team or another, the games are probably gonna be heated and close.
<!--QuoteBegin--chowder+Aug 6 2003, 04:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chowder @ Aug 6 2003, 04:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gone is the fun of babblers. They were hilarious and humiliating. Enough said. Devour can't hold a candle to babblers.
Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl.
Gone is the fun of Nancy. Best map in 1.04.
Gone is the significance of being gorge. It's more like jury duty now.
Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds.
Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. Instead, for marines, we now get global spam of waypoints and commander activity. Do I need to know that my commander has dropped 3 medpacks on the other side of the map? Chinese water torture, anyone?
Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed on these. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited August 2003
I think the only thing that I really miss about 1.04 is probably something that can't be changed with the no hive restrictions system.
It doesn't seem like any of the battles in 2.0 really matter all that much compared with 1.04. In 1.04 if you took hives you won, if you lost hives, you lost. It was simple, and as a result there was a large amount of very visceral excitement that went into gaining or losing a hive. In 2.0 hive have lost a lot of their meaning. With res for kills, resource towers have lost a lot of their meaning. As a result, none of the battles for a specific location really have the same excitement as in 1.04. This may change with time as we learn in a instinctive way what type of turning points lead to winning and what type of turning points lead to losing, but for the time being as cool as it is, it doesn't quite have the same emotional oomph.
Edit: I wonder if taking out res for kills and making RTs collect more res as time goes on would help this while still helping to speed up the endgames
<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'><b>My severe pwnage of Chowder's post begins in the quote below</b></span>
<!--QuoteBegin--chowder+Aug 6 2003, 08:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chowder @ Aug 6 2003, 08:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me preface by stating that I'm speaking from a wealth of experience as I've played CS and NS since their infancy, when you could count the number of servers on 2 hands.<i><b>You're in good company.</b></i>
I've witnessed the griping sessions that have accompanied each and every update. This is the first time I've felt compelled to chime in. <b><i>Thank you. Would you like a cookie?</b></i>
I will not discuss balance of 2.0, mostly because it's secondary to my main focus: fun. <b><i>Or because it is also a subject you have much bias and little knowledge about.</b></i>
I had fun playing both 1.0 and 1.04. I haven't found much fun at all playing 2.0. <b><i> I'm sad for you, really.</b></i>
My favorite parts of 1.04 for were skulking for leap kills, offensive gorging for web trap/healspray/babblers, jetpack/shotgun attacking as marine, and finding creative ways to win as commander. Those things were challenging. <b><i> And those things were not part of the game. They were amusements you gave yourself in light of the gameplay problems. If you were doing those, then you weren't really playing the game.</b></i>
Now in 2.0: Gone is the fun of leap. The delay in fastswitch has greatly<b><i>(not really)</b></i> hindered the effectiveness of leap strikes or leap-biting. Gone is the fun of webbing. Webbing was an essential skill in 1.04 to protect first two hives. It's only a nice-thing-to-have in 2.0, and almost an afterthought. <b><i>I agree with you here, but webbing is a bit beefed now, and hive 3 is a likley occourance in every game (win or lose).</b></i>
Gone is the fun of babblers. They were hilarious and humiliating. Enough said. Devour can't hold a candle to babblers.<b><i>Okay then, you can play with them. I really think I'll have more fun with bile bomb than you will with babblers.</b></i>
Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl. <b><i>Then you are playing the wrong mod. Jetpacks were never (spelled with an E) supposed to allow you to hover (spelled with an E as well) infinately.</b></i>
Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.<b><i>I think the shotgun is a million times more fun, simply becuse now they get handed out more often, and NSPlayer can use them without it being a total waste of resources. You want challenge? Use a knife.</b></i>
Gone is the fun of Nancy. Best map in 1.04. <b><i> It was also my favorite, but after playing 2.0 I understand why nancy would be a bad map without serious revisions.</b></i>
Gone is the significance of being gorge. It's more like jury duty now. <b><i> I know a few people who live and die by gorging. My friend, eat, is an excellent gorge and usually stay's gorge throughout the game, ninja-sensing and still trying to figure out what all the movement chamber does.</b></i>
Gone is the interdependency of aliens (common res pool). Now I feel like I can just take care of my own needs with kill res. <b><i> Again, are you playing the right mod? It was never supposed to be shared. This is the way it should have been, and I feel it is better. You actually see the Lerk often in games! Imagine that!</b></i>
Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds. <b><i> Fun. Um, right. I'll give a dollar to whoever makes skulkchuckletechnoremix.mp3 and sucsessfully markets it. You can laugh at unsuspecting marines just before you leap out of sensory and scrape off their face. More than satisfying.</b></i>
Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. <b><i>Wow! you can see your teammates health and armour easily now!</b></i>
Instead, for marines, we now get global spam of waypoints and commander activity. Do I need to know that my commander has dropped 3 medpacks on the other side of the map? Chinese water torture, anyone? <b><i> So lets just keep marines in the dark. We can regress into the, "Um.. Silverfox? Why hasen't Comprox respawned yet?" days of 1.04.</b></i>
Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. Why on earth would you encourage them. Hunting for fellow humans controlling marines/aliens is fun. <b><i>So is rotating marines on and off base duty. Wait, it isn't.</b></i>
To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning. <b><i> Also look at how I can command and equip troops at lightning speed without even looking at the screen. The new command interface has made awesome Commanders into Godlike commanders.</b></i>
The only definite improvement I see in 2.0 is in the visuals. Sadly, visuals don't add to my definition of fun.<b><i>And from this post, I can't tell what your definition of fun is. Maybe a piece of celery and some peanut butter is more fun to you. Or a good, long stare at the sun.</b></i>
Win or lose, I'd rather play a round that was unbalanced, fun, or short over one that was balanced, drawn out, or predictable. Communism is balanced, playing golf against Tiger Woods is not. Which is more fun? <b><i>"Communism is balanced"... I'm pretty sure you won't read too far into "History for Dummies" before you realize that was a grossly uneducated statement on your part.</b></i>
I'm truly unimpressed. <b><i>I really care that your not impressed. Really</b></i>
It seems fun wasn't a priority. <b><i>Again, I would have gladly mailed you some celery and peanut butter if it would have kept you from posting this.</b></i> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm to lazy to read through all the responses, so I'll lay it out for you right here.
Remember boys and girls:
"It is better to remain silent and appear a fool, then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" -Mark Twain (Yes, I know this quote by heart)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find it highly insulting to my intellegence to be told i cannot judge a game after X amount of time<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it highly insulting to your intelligence that you think you can judge a game so quickly that relies on the development of team habits and strategies: things that take weeks to really work out and get used to. This is not Rocket Arena. This is not a game where "fun" and "skillz" mean that one must have ridiculous exploits up the wazoo, and everything must be uber powerful against everything else. This is a game of strategy, teamwork,a nd hard choices among tradeoffs.
Comments
Turret farms -- they are easy to take down. Get a lerk to cover a gorge in umbra, maybe two of them with adrenline and have skulks guard the gorge. Heres a newsflash!: The turret farm was owned, in a mere minute.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds. Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. Instead, for marines, we now get global spam of waypoints and commander activity. Do I need to know that my commander has dropped 3 medpacks on the other side of the map? Chinese water torture, anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spamming chuckle is hardly fun. I remember a person that ruined that for the whole game by sitting under the docking wing bridge in nothing just spamming it. No one could shoot him. Ya, thats tons of fun. Plus, I do really wanna hear somone studder out the phrase "I just lost my appitate," fifty times...great fun. Plus, that global spam of waypoints will help you find out what the commander is doing. If you ask for a medpack, just look in that area to see when their droped. They might not be right on top of you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jetpacks are fine now, just want they need to be. Get to those extra spots where no one can get ya, not hover around hive like a dumbas*.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of Nancy. Best map in 1.04.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><u><i>They cant help the fact that the nancy files were lost during a crash, stop nit picking just to make the thread longer.</i></u></b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shotgun is fine, now you can actually get in a couple of shots before the thing kills you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of leap. The delay in fastswitch has greatly hindered the effectiveness of leap strikes or leap-biting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The leap is switching fast enough for me...dont know whats wrong with it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scanning has to do with gameplay. Put an obs near the action, this whole game is about stragety.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(Meh, I cant find the quote, had some huge complaint about devour and it being boring sitting inside the onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is devour supposed to take you to the playboy mansion? Is it <i>supposed</i> to be be a blast sitting inside an onos?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the fun of babblers. They were hilarious and humiliating. Enough said. Devour can't hold a candle to babblers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MY GOD BABBLERS WERE USELESS. IF YOU HAVE FUN LAUGHING AT SOMETHING SLOWLY SINK INTO THE FLOOR WHY CANT YOU HAVE FUN WITH IMPROVED VISUALS!?!?!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Communism is balanced, playing golf against Tiger Woods is not. Which is more fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather take over the world than play golf anyday.
Gone is the fun of webbing. Webbing was an essential skill in 1.04 to protect first two hives. It's only a nice-thing-to-have in 2.0, and almost an afterthought.
Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl.
Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds. Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i didn't read any of the replies, but here is what i agree with, and also some of the other fun parts of 1.04 that are gone D:
Lerk Bite. Fun as hell, but the newbie **** couldn't learn how to fly around biting peoples heads off so bye bye lerk bite!
Bhopping as Marines. Oh look, something else that required some skill that is now gone. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
For NS 3.0 we should take away manual aiming and add auto-aim, and while you're add it give aliens a wallhack, that way it will be even for everyone. And I probably won't read this thread so if you want to say something to me stop by #redemption
[edit] <3 MonsE [/edit]
To me, it's just as fun, and you seem to have more control of things if you screw up, there's always a chance to fight back and win, which makes the games a lot more involved. Unless there's a huge skills defecit on one team or another, the games are probably gonna be heated and close.
Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl.
Gone is the fun of Nancy. Best map in 1.04.
Gone is the significance of being gorge. It's more like jury duty now.
Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds.
Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. Instead, for marines, we now get global spam of waypoints and commander activity. Do I need to know that my commander has dropped 3 medpacks on the other side of the map? Chinese water torture, anyone?
Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed on these. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
It doesn't seem like any of the battles in 2.0 really matter all that much compared with 1.04. In 1.04 if you took hives you won, if you lost hives, you lost. It was simple, and as a result there was a large amount of very visceral excitement that went into gaining or losing a hive. In 2.0 hive have lost a lot of their meaning. With res for kills, resource towers have lost a lot of their meaning. As a result, none of the battles for a specific location really have the same excitement as in 1.04. This may change with time as we learn in a instinctive way what type of turning points lead to winning and what type of turning points lead to losing, but for the time being as cool as it is, it doesn't quite have the same emotional oomph.
Edit: I wonder if taking out res for kills and making RTs collect more res as time goes on would help this while still helping to speed up the endgames
<!--QuoteBegin--chowder+Aug 6 2003, 08:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chowder @ Aug 6 2003, 08:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me preface by stating that I'm speaking from a wealth of experience as I've played CS and NS since their infancy, when you could count the number of servers on 2 hands.<i><b>You're in good company.</b></i>
I've witnessed the griping sessions that have accompanied each and every update. This is the first time I've felt compelled to chime in. <b><i>Thank you. Would you like a cookie?</b></i>
I will not discuss balance of 2.0, mostly because it's secondary to my main focus: fun. <b><i>Or because it is also a subject you have much bias and little knowledge about.</b></i>
I had fun playing both 1.0 and 1.04. I haven't found much fun at all playing 2.0. <b><i> I'm sad for you, really.</b></i>
My favorite parts of 1.04 for were skulking for leap kills, offensive gorging for web trap/healspray/babblers, jetpack/shotgun attacking as marine, and finding creative ways to win as commander. Those things were challenging. <b><i> And those things were not part of the game. They were amusements you gave yourself in light of the gameplay problems. If you were doing those, then you weren't really playing the game.</b></i>
Now in 2.0:
Gone is the fun of leap. The delay in fastswitch has greatly<b><i>(not really)</b></i> hindered the effectiveness of leap strikes or leap-biting.
Gone is the fun of webbing. Webbing was an essential skill in 1.04 to protect first two hives. It's only a nice-thing-to-have in 2.0, and almost an afterthought. <b><i>I agree with you here, but webbing is a bit beefed now, and hive 3 is a likley occourance in every game (win or lose).</b></i>
Gone is the fun of babblers. They were hilarious and humiliating. Enough said. Devour can't hold a candle to babblers.<b><i>Okay then, you can play with them. I really think I'll have more fun with bile bomb than you will with babblers.</b></i>
Gone is the fun of jetpacks. Flying is fun. Jumppacks are not. I'd rather only be able to fly with an lmg, than be able to jumppack with a hmg/gl. <b><i>Then you are playing the wrong mod. Jetpacks were never (spelled with an E) supposed to allow you to hover (spelled with an E as well) infinately.</b></i>
Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.<b><i>I think the shotgun is a million times more fun, simply becuse now they get handed out more often, and NSPlayer can use them without it being a total waste of resources. You want challenge? Use a knife.</b></i>
Gone is the fun of Nancy. Best map in 1.04. <b><i> It was also my favorite, but after playing 2.0 I understand why nancy would be a bad map without serious revisions.</b></i>
Gone is the significance of being gorge. It's more like jury duty now. <b><i> I know a few people who live and die by gorging. My friend, eat, is an excellent gorge and usually stay's gorge throughout the game, ninja-sensing and still trying to figure out what all the movement chamber does.</b></i>
Gone is the interdependency of aliens (common res pool). Now I feel like I can just take care of my own needs with kill res. <b><i> Again, are you playing the right mod? It was never supposed to be shared. This is the way it should have been, and I feel it is better. You actually see the Lerk often in games! Imagine that!</b></i>
Gone is the fun spam that is chuckle, taunt, meds. <b><i> Fun. Um, right. I'll give a dollar to whoever makes skulkchuckletechnoremix.mp3 and sucsessfully markets it. You can laugh at unsuspecting marines just before you leap out of sensory and scrape off their face. More than satisfying.</b></i>
Gone is the helpful spamming calls for healspray. <b><i>Wow! you can see your teammates health and armour easily now!</b></i>
Instead, for marines, we now get global spam of waypoints and commander activity. Do I need to know that my commander has dropped 3 medpacks on the other side of the map? Chinese water torture, anyone?
<b><i> So lets just keep marines in the dark. We can regress into the, "Um.. Silverfox? Why hasen't Comprox respawned yet?" days of 1.04.</b></i>
Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. Why on earth would you encourage them. Hunting for fellow humans controlling marines/aliens is fun. <b><i>So is rotating marines on and off base duty. Wait, it isn't.</b></i>
To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning. <b><i> Also look at how I can command and equip troops at lightning speed without even looking at the screen. The new command interface has made awesome Commanders into Godlike commanders.</b></i>
The only definite improvement I see in 2.0 is in the visuals. Sadly, visuals don't add to my definition of fun.<b><i>And from this post, I can't tell what your definition of fun is. Maybe a piece of celery and some peanut butter is more fun to you. Or a good, long stare at the sun.</b></i>
Win or lose, I'd rather play a round that was unbalanced, fun, or short over one that was balanced, drawn out, or predictable.
Communism is balanced, playing golf against Tiger Woods is not. Which is more fun? <b><i>"Communism is balanced"... I'm pretty sure you won't read too far into "History for Dummies" before you realize that was a grossly uneducated statement on your part.</b></i>
I'm truly unimpressed. <b><i>I really care that your not impressed. Really</b></i>
It seems fun wasn't a priority. <b><i>Again, I would have gladly mailed you some celery and peanut butter if it would have kept you from posting this.</b></i> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm to lazy to read through all the responses, so I'll lay it out for you right here.
Remember boys and girls:
"It is better to remain silent and appear a fool, then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"
-Mark Twain (Yes, I know this quote by heart)
I find it highly insulting to your intelligence that you think you can judge a game so quickly that relies on the development of team habits and strategies: things that take weeks to really work out and get used to. This is not Rocket Arena. This is not a game where "fun" and "skillz" mean that one must have ridiculous exploits up the wazoo, and everything must be uber powerful against everything else. This is a game of strategy, teamwork,a nd hard choices among tradeoffs.