After the amount of one-liner flame-complaints I had to wade through, it's refreshing to see people with more than a dozen braincells voicing well formulated critizism. Thanks for that, Johnny.
Maybe, one thing should be cleared up, however: What many people do not seem to understand is that public appeal is in fact not the number one priority about NS's creation. First and foremost, it's supposed to come as close to Flayras vision as humanly and technically possible. We all are sorry if you miss aspects of 1.04 you greatly enjoyed, but if you were in Flayras position, would you rather extend upon a game that does not satisfy you artistically, or would you try to get it right? NS was always supposed to be a RTS with a FPS front-end. This includes strategic diversity, which is, whatever some will claim, by far greater than in 1.04 - thus, it fits the vision better. Fin.
By the way, about the "1.04 was dying out" rumor: At no time, there were less than 300 servers, and we never had less than 100.000 individual players. If that's dying out, I should maybe try it, too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Flayra said it, you know flayra, the guy who created the game? I can't prove this, but someone quoted Flayra about it before, feel free to correct me if I"m wrong, but the original intent is somewhat like Aliens vs Predator, the aliens are supposed to have deadly attacks but be quite weak, requiring them to sneak instead of charge into battle.
A lone marine should be able to drop atleast 2 skulks if he has good aim. That is, if the skulks don't have cara, also varies depending on upgrades. Skulks aren't supposed to be an equal match for marines. It's supposed to be, skulks who charge in don't get much done against good marines, thats how it should be, they should require a small bit of brain power and tactical skill to get anything done with the FIRST LEVEL ALIEN. That's how it should be, unskilled skulks should get dropped like flies aginst a skilled marine. Thats how it was in 1.04, only it was a bit too easy to see skulks and it only took 8 bullets to kill them without carapace. If you put skulks at an equal level as marines, then what are fades? A higher level than skulks, so if skulks are equal, than fades are far superior, then Onos.....*sigh*. The point is, its so easy to get fades/onos if the alien team knows how to play, its so entirely easy that they hardly use skulks anymore unless they're dumb enough to keep getting killed. Early game has skulks and lots of them, they're not supposed to own the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought Flayra felt differently, but I just assumed. I was around for early NS days(maybe you were too), and I had gotten the impression that marines were about teamwork, whereas aliens could be more individual. So an encounter with an individual marine VS an individual alien would be tipped in the favor of the alien.
But maybe I'm wrong because skulks are susposed to be <u>fragile</u> DMers, but how can marines be teamplayers if one not-so skilled marine can easily shred a mindless skulk?(outside of long hallways)
If a Skulk charges at you head first from the other end of that corridor, he will die. Period.
If a Skulk acts like he's supposed to and ambush you at a tight spot, you will die. Period.
If a Skulk ambushes a group of marines in a tight spot - well, then we see a relatively balanced fight between teamplay and DM <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--That Annoying Kid+Aug 9 2003, 01:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ Aug 9 2003, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm going to make like MonsE and not make balance posts until I've played 2.0 till I'm sick of it (damn, no balance posts for me) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>go play 2.0 instead of posting about how it needs changes</span></span> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
2.0 has brought a ton of new sounds, improvements, new weapons and it just generally makes NS a much more professional looking game
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> threads like these make baby onos cry
[edit] changed font colors to look shnazy and made a point clearer [/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet again, another ignorant post. What makes you think I haven't played? Don't assume I haven't played, I've played well over 80 games of 2.0 now, so keep your ignorance to your self. Sounds? new weapons? What new weapons? I've seen no new weapons, unless you mean the fade ability, Metobolize, oh yeah thats a huge change isn't it. Who cares about professional looking, you know what that means? "Professional looking", that is just another term for eye candy. You just like eye candy, like most people do. Well I value game play.
I've not made any change posts, I'm aware Flayra will discard any change posts, thats clearly not what this post is about. Has nothing to do with me adding ideas, I simply stated the few things that coulda been changed that woulda saved the devs alotta time and kept the game great. Yet you are like the 3rd person in this thread to say the SAME THING. "Play 2.0 before you judge it", ok so you're ASSuming that I haven't played it, yet I have, thus making me right and you wrong in 1 case. Ignorant people assume. Don't start spewing ignorance from your cake hole unless you can back it, rather than say the most unoriginal thing that has been said by everyone and their dog. "Play 2.0 before you judge it", not only have we done that BEFORE you said your ignorant comment, but thats also the most unoriginal and over used sentence on this forum.
Don't talk unless you have something worth saying, annoying kid.
<!--QuoteBegin--[FoD]JohnnyAppleWeed+Aug 9 2003, 12:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([FoD]JohnnyAppleWeed @ Aug 9 2003, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--JuNgLiSt+Aug 9 2003, 09:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JuNgLiSt @ Aug 9 2003, 09:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+Aug 9 2003, 09:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Aug 9 2003, 09:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--JuNgLiSt+Aug 9 2003, 04:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JuNgLiSt @ Aug 9 2003, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i'm really missing 1.04... playing alien on 2.0 is not that fun anymore and marines are extremely overpowered
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hahah, comedy gold! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> why? if the comms that you're playing with are weak, it's not my fault... a good comm can beat the aliens very easily now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He means in non public games, or public games with lotsa very skilled regulars heh. It's actually true, its the exact same problem in 1.04, 2.0 didn't bring balance, it just nerfed things that were fun to use and changed alot. It's like re-arranging your living room, didn't even add a big screen TV, just moved things around and got rid of some things *cough* jet packs *cough*.
Same situation as 1.04, skilled marines always own aliens, public games = alien domination. Balance nothing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> exactly
these new patches are still beta, but they're turning the alien team more weak than ever... i hope that is not coming to be a finished patch
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 9 2003, 02:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 9 2003, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's a question of positions:
If a Skulk charges at you head first from the other end of that corridor, he will die. Period.
If a Skulk acts like he's supposed to and ambush you at a tight spot, you will die. Period.
If a Skulk ambushes a group of marines in a tight spot - well, then we see a relatively balanced fight between teamplay and DM <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed, finally a smart person.
Lazy, not to exclude you, atleast you're debating in a mature way.
But yes, you are quite right about the skulk charging at teh end of a corridor.
Lazy, the fact that aliens have 4 different fighter classes, each getting stronger, I would only assume it to be fair that skulks get owned, UNLESS the marine is a newbie. I think a talented marine should find no good fight against a skluk that charges in. Lol I can recall many different times where in certain spots I could kill 15-20 skulks before I died (occasional medpack/ammo from comm of course), just because they charged in. I remember once at Shipping Tunnel on caged, I heard a gorge building, before he blocked the door I came in, killed the single skulk guarding him, killed the gorge, and proceeded to knife the res tower. I got 2 med packs due to the 1 skulk bite done to me and the heal spray damage, then I proceeded to knife the res tower, in the time it took me to finish knifing the res tower, between knifing segmants I would have to stop constantly to kill skulks. They charged in 1 at a time, instead of going through the 2 back ways which I would have no defense against up close (we all know skulks own up close range). So they came from Ventilation hive area 1 by 1, I ended up killing about 10-12 skulks by the time I was done knifing it, simply because they charged in 1 at a time, very foolish, we all know shipping tunnels lay out and how easy skulks are to kill there.
Yet all it would have taken was 1 smart skulk to come around back through the shipping tunnel opening/closing door or the vent right behind me and boom, I'm screwed. The point is to kill the skulks before they get in biting range, cause when they do you're usually screwed.
1 game I was skulking, it was a clan scrimmage, very very very good marine team (either that or aim botters, never missed a shot heh), so being out in the open got us nowhere. They had like 2 deaths and 20 kills k? Thats how good they were, even with cara and no weapon upgrades they mopped the floor with us. So I decide to wait above a door way, 3 of them pass me right up, and I jump down and kill 2 out of 3, simply because I used a bit of skulk tactics rather than foolishly charging in.
Any skilled marine should be able to own a skulk from a range as long as he sees the skulk long enough. The skulks aren't supposed to make themselves openly visible, they're not tanks. Fragile, but deadly. As it should be.
So yes, 1 skilled marine fighting a skulk out in an open hall way should most definately drop that skulk easily, the only time I think a marine should ever lose to a skulk out in the open is if he runs out of ammo or has like 1 bit left or something.
ok. from what ive seen, this thread holds a lot of sanity to it. at least JAWs points seem relivant. however, this one statement i have a huge beef with:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See, you either dind't play 1.04 often enough, or you sucked (not to diss) too much at it to enjoy the quality of 1.04's game play. Anyone I know who has skill, any decent player whos played 1.04 long enough agrees with me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i feel like thats a baseless, opinionated attack on anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. if not, please clarify.
i dont mean to sound like a jerk. that statement just didnt bode well with me at all.
i mean, yeah. im not the best guy out there. probably not the top 100, or even 500 around. but, id like to think im decent. i have a lot of experience with this game. and quite honestly i feel 2.0 is a vast improvement. yes, it has problems. no, it will never be perfect.
to me, it all depends on how you look at it. to me, the fade changes are as substantial and was workable as the lerk changes. it requires a new angle of work, but it can be done.
dont get me wrong. fades are nowhere near as good as they were. but i think they are still viable, to an extent.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nevermore+Aug 9 2003, 04:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nevermore @ Aug 9 2003, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok. from what ive seen, this thread holds a lot of sanity to it. at least JAWs points seem relivant. however, this one statement i have a huge beef with:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See, you either dind't play 1.04 often enough, or you sucked (not to diss) too much at it to enjoy the quality of 1.04's game play. Anyone I know who has skill, any decent player whos played 1.04 long enough agrees with me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i feel like thats a baseless, opinionated attack on anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. if not, please clarify.
i dont mean to sound like a jerk. that statement just didnt bode well with me at all.
i mean, yeah. im not the best guy out there. probably not the top 100, or even 500 around. but, id like to think im decent. i have a lot of experience with this game. and quite honestly i feel 2.0 is a vast improvement. yes, it has problems. no, it will never be perfect.
to me, it all depends on how you look at it. to me, the fade changes are as substantial and was workable as the lerk changes. it requires a new angle of work, but it can be done.
dont get me wrong. fades are nowhere near as good as they were. but i think they are still viable, to an extent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Some people are easier to please. I still stand by that statement, its fairly true, not 100%. It was a general statement. I know there are very skilled and experienced players who like 2.0 more, but the MAJORITY don't (unless they're all hiding underground), I've talked to many many many very skilled and experienced players, I've met 2 who actually prefer 2.0, and yes, they are the lesser skilled 2. I've talked to many skilled people I don't know very well, most of them still agree. Just a general statement, not meant to tick anyone off.
Alotta people like eye candy, why do you think games like Warcraft 3 are liked more nowadays than Starcraft, people who have played neither will take a look at the difference in graphics and say "gee I wonder which I should pick har har". Same with games like EverQuest compared to Ultima Online, graphical differences, aka "eye candy", draw alot of players. I value game play over graphics, if super mario bros., the original, had more game play content I'd take that over NS anyday.
Hehe ok I think my satisfied by your answer, Johnny.
So why do highly skilled people like 1.04? I can see:
1)It's very different. Basically, they got really good at 1.04, and now the same tactics they were good at just aren't as effective.
2)To the right people, 1.04 really wasn't that unbalanced, so to some people 1.04 felt great, 2.0 felt like a step backwards balance wise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe, one thing should be cleared up, however: What many people do not seem to understand is that public appeal is in fact not the number one priority about NS's creation. First and foremost, it's supposed to come as close to Flayras vision as humanly and technically possible. We all are sorry if you miss aspects of 1.04 you greatly enjoyed, but if you were in Flayras position, would you rather extend upon a game that does not satisfy you artistically, or would you try to get it right? NS was always supposed to be a RTS with a FPS front-end. This includes strategic diversity, which is, whatever some will claim, by far greater than in 1.04 - thus, it fits the vision better. Fin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmmm how is this? I always thought of NS 2.0 as taking a snow globe, shaking it, and calling the new flake positions NS 2.0. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's not a bad shake, but I fail to see how it makes it less FPS and more RTS.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
God...its people like this that make Flayra, MonsE, and anyone else involved want to quit.
Why, you ask?
They spent MONTHS, TAILORING NS 2.0 to EXACTLY what people were asking for. They added new things to balance those out. They updated the graphics. They pulled out all the stops, and more or less, they took the gauntlet and ran with it.
Then, people like you show up. And start complaining about how "NS 2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better". Did you know thats not a reason? Also, I'd ask you, could YOU code devour? Could you, HONESTLY, find a way to write the C++ for ANY of the moves that people love now, like the new blink, Xenocide, parasite, motion tracking, ANY of it.
Sure, people loved 1.04. But you know what? More people like 2.0. You know why? Because its everything 1.04 WANTED to be, but about 10x more than it could EVER achieve. NS 2.0 is the kind of game that get GOTY awards, based purely on how fun they are. 1.04 would have gotten a award, sure, but without the diversity that 2.0 has, it wouldn't have gotten crap compared.
I've been wondering, for a long time, just how many people think they honestly know whats best for a game, and yet don't ever try it out, and never say thank you to the things they DO like about a game. I honestly hope one day that NS turns into a retail game, just because Flayra DESERVES every award on the planet for everything he's done for NS, and the COMMUNITY. Not some big company, but US.
Man...sorry bout that rant. Just people that keep saying that 2.0 stinks while giving basically no reason...I give no respect.
And just to let you know- it wasn't a decision to leave ns_nancy out of the game. They lost the source file.
I enjoy NS in 2.0 more than I ever did in 1.04 or before, as both marines and aliens.
Sure 2.0 has some balance issues, but it's fun either way.
And it is WAY more fun that DoD 1.0 is now...trust me, I have been playing it competatively for the last year and a half, and 1.0 is pretty freaking bad, which is why I am now moving fulltime to NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--Quaunaut+Aug 9 2003, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Aug 9 2003, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> God...its people like this that make Flayra, MonsE, and anyone else involved want to quit.
Why, you ask?
They spent MONTHS, TAILORING NS 2.0 to EXACTLY what people were asking for. They added new things to balance those out. They updated the graphics. They pulled out all the stops, and more or less, they took the gauntlet and ran with it.
Then, people like you show up. And start complaining about how "NS 2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better". Did you know thats not a reason?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I read that far then realized you just had the urge to suck up and/or attack someone on the forums. The last 2 sentences is what proves your feeble mindedness, did you even read what I said? Skimming over posts and posting a variety of ignorant assumptions seems to be a new trend.
When did I say "2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better", then claim it was a reason to change it back? I gave SPECIFIC reasons why 2.0 doesn't do justice to the name Natural Selection, I dind't just say "2.0 sucks cause 1.04 is better, the end", if you got that, then I think we know who is to blame.
I do think you've made a complete moron of yourself, anyone who cares to read my posts first, then read yours will surely agree even if they don't agree with why I posted.
A side note:
Stop calling them Onii, dear god, its like Moose, singular is moose, plural is moose, same thing for Onos, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know this, simple english that comes in 3rd grade classes.
Some people use Onii as plural and Onos as singular, some people use Onos as plural and Oni as singular, thats ignorance. Now I"m not going to make personal attacks on anyone, I know some of you say it because you see others say it, but its just wrong. If "Onos" was plural, then why is it in the section with singular names?
Lerk Skulk Gorge Fade Onos, not Oni, see the pattern?
And there is no Onii for multiple. Someones said something so blindingly stupid it made my head hurt. He said "well I"ll continue calling it Oni untill I see the devs say other wise". Last I checked the Devs put all the SINGULAR names together in the "Life forms" section of the evolve menu. Why would they make Onos the only plural one? You're not involving into multiple onos' , you're turning into 1, thus making Onos = Singular. Then basic english knowledge will tell you that Onos' is also the plural form, much like Moose.
Just thought I'd clear that up, it ticks me off everytime I see it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gremlin+Aug 9 2003, 11:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gremlin @ Aug 9 2003, 11:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I enjoy NS in 2.0 more than I ever did in 1.04 or before, as both marines and aliens.
Sure 2.0 has some balance issues, but it's fun either way.
And it is WAY more fun that DoD 1.0 is now...trust me, I have been playing it competatively for the last year and a half, and 1.0 is pretty freaking bad, which is why I am now moving fulltime to NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol....why should we "trust you" when you say 1.0 is bad, I've played it, I like it, its a matter of opinion. I see no real issues with it, I find it quite entertaining.
This is a problem, your OPINION doesn't make it fact, if you don't like it that doesn't mean everyone else will dislike it....now I KNOW people are gonna try to turn that around on me and say "Same with NS 2.0, its a matter of opinion", which is true but balancing issues are based on fact and not opinion. I've played 1.04 a TON, and played over 80 games of 2.0 now, I am well experienced enough in both public and private games to know balancing issues, I've stated them, there were less issues in 1.04.
For the third time. "If it aint broke', don't fix it"
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--[FoD]JohnnyAppleWeed+Aug 9 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([FoD]JohnnyAppleWeed @ Aug 9 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Quaunaut+Aug 9 2003, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Aug 9 2003, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> God...its people like this that make Flayra, MonsE, and anyone else involved want to quit.
Why, you ask?
They spent MONTHS, TAILORING NS 2.0 to EXACTLY what people were asking for. They added new things to balance those out. They updated the graphics. They pulled out all the stops, and more or less, they took the gauntlet and ran with it.
Then, people like you show up. And start complaining about how "NS 2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better". Did you know thats not a reason?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I read that far then realized you just had the urge to suck up and/or attack someone on the forums. The last 2 sentences is what proves your feeble mindedness, did you even read what I said? Skimming over posts and posting a variety of ignorant assumptions seems to be a new trend.
When did I say "2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better", then claim it was a reason to change it back? I gave SPECIFIC reasons why 2.0 doesn't do justice to the name Natural Selection, I dind't just say "2.0 sucks cause 1.04 is better, the end", if you got that, then I think we know who is to blame.
I do think you've made a complete moron of yourself, anyone who cares to read my posts first, then read yours will surely agree even if they don't agree with why I posted.
A side note:
Stop calling them Onii, dear god, its like Moose, singular is moose, plural is moose, same thing for Onos, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know this, simple english that comes in 3rd grade classes.
Some people use Onii as plural and Onos as singular, some people use Onos as plural and Oni as singular, thats ignorance. Now I"m not going to make personal attacks on anyone, I know some of you say it because you see others say it, but its just wrong. If "Onos" was plural, then why is it in the section with singular names?
Lerk Skulk Gorge Fade Onos, not Oni, see the pattern?
And there is no Onii for multiple. Someones said something so blindingly stupid it made my head hurt. He said "well I"ll continue calling it Oni untill I see the devs say other wise". Last I checked the Devs put all the SINGULAR names together in the "Life forms" section of the evolve menu. Why would they make Onos the only plural one? You're not involving into multiple onos' , you're turning into 1, thus making Onos = Singular. Then basic english knowledge will tell you that Onos' is also the plural form, much like Moose.
Just thought I'd clear that up, it ticks me off everytime I see it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I felt the need to attack because thats what you did.
I dind't bother reading everything you said, so I woudln't know. If you won't read my posts, I won't read yours.
I just replied to the part that mattered. You put words into my mouth that I never said. I quoted them from you, but you didn't quote them from me. That means you're either A) A liar, or B) Not very smart.
Yuno one thing that I keep thinking about when I read all the posts about NS is that most people keep confusing team strength with game balance. Right now the marines and aliens are pretty evenly matched in regard to strength. If anything marines have a tiny advantage since they can hold of massive alien attacks for a sustained period of time, and rarely are defeated in the early or mid-game. If aliens were as strong as some peple suggest, then marines should literally CRUMBLE far earlier in the game.
They don't.
Most games I play in 2.0 involve marines putting up a bigger fight than in any build I have ever seen before. Without resources and backed in a corner the marines hold off wave after wave of aliens, and the ALIENS are too strong?
Ummm, I don't think so. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Does this mean the game is balanced? Absolutley not. Stats from server ops I've talked with show marines only winning at most 33% of the time and often times less. So where does this inadaquacy come from? In watching and playing many games I tend to think much of this relates to the way in which aliens are allowed to build in the early game.
In other words, if we were to delay some of the alien expansion in the early game it could very well impact the game to the point where the marine team also gets an equal chance to expand and thus have an equal chance to win. To achieve this we really only need to make MINOR balance changes. Delay resource tower building in a simple but non-restrictive manner, and perhaps delay the second hive a bit. This alone could make the world of difference to balance.
Unfortunately all we're seeing are <b>massive</b> alien nerfs which target the symptoms and not the problem. It's only making matters worse and that can be seen in the bulk of the posts about 2.01c. If so many people think we are moving in the wrong direction, personally I'm inclined to believe them. Beta or not, the changes being made WILL suck the fun out of playing aliens. One of the reasons Flayra posted that 2.0 isn't balanced was that some "last minute changes were implemented to make the game fun" and that sacrified balance.
Does it really make sense now to flip it around and sacrifice fun for the sake of making the game balanced? I thought that's what we were trying to avoid with 2.0 in the first place. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Flayra has made it clear in his posts that these changes are mainly being made to cater to the needs of 'competitive players' (IE clans) and this may likely mean public play will suffer as a result. However, like everyone else here, I'm just along for the ride. This is Flayra's bus, and he's free to make whatever lane changes he wants. <b>I completely respect his position and decisions</b>, even if I may not agree with them. I can only hope that Flayra listens to the public's cry and takes their feelings and concerns into consideration.
<!--QuoteBegin--[FoD]JohnnyAppleWeed+Aug 10 2003, 12:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([FoD]JohnnyAppleWeed @ Aug 10 2003, 12:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dind't bother reading everything you said, so I woudln't know. If you won't read my posts, I won't read yours.
I just replied to the part that mattered. You put words into my mouth that I never said. I quoted them from you, but you didn't quote them from me. That means you're either A) A liar, or B) Not very smart. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you're trying to hold intelligent discussion, please refrain from such nonsense.
yes, your arguments <b>do</b> make sense. no, they aren't baseless. but please try to remain civil.
I mean, how can you honestly expect to be taken seriously when you respond to someone by saying "I didn't read everything you wrote" and then attack them. and yes, I read everything you wrote. you seem like a very intelligent person however, and I think we're all above this kinda crap.
Comments
Maybe, one thing should be cleared up, however: What many people do not seem to understand is that public appeal is in fact not the number one priority about NS's creation. First and foremost, it's supposed to come as close to Flayras vision as humanly and technically possible. We all are sorry if you miss aspects of 1.04 you greatly enjoyed, but if you were in Flayras position, would you rather extend upon a game that does not satisfy you artistically, or would you try to get it right? NS was always supposed to be a RTS with a FPS front-end. This includes strategic diversity, which is, whatever some will claim, by far greater than in 1.04 - thus, it fits the vision better. Fin.
By the way, about the "1.04 was dying out" rumor: At no time, there were less than 300 servers, and we never had less than 100.000 individual players. If that's dying out, I should maybe try it, too.
Flayra said it, you know flayra, the guy who created the game? I can't prove this, but someone quoted Flayra about it before, feel free to correct me if I"m wrong, but the original intent is somewhat like Aliens vs Predator, the aliens are supposed to have deadly attacks but be quite weak, requiring them to sneak instead of charge into battle.
A lone marine should be able to drop atleast 2 skulks if he has good aim. That is, if the skulks don't have cara, also varies depending on upgrades. Skulks aren't supposed to be an equal match for marines. It's supposed to be, skulks who charge in don't get much done against good marines, thats how it should be, they should require a small bit of brain power and tactical skill to get anything done with the FIRST LEVEL ALIEN. That's how it should be, unskilled skulks should get dropped like flies aginst a skilled marine. Thats how it was in 1.04, only it was a bit too easy to see skulks and it only took 8 bullets to kill them without carapace. If you put skulks at an equal level as marines, then what are fades? A higher level than skulks, so if skulks are equal, than fades are far superior, then Onos.....*sigh*. The point is, its so easy to get fades/onos if the alien team knows how to play, its so entirely easy that they hardly use skulks anymore unless they're dumb enough to keep getting killed. Early game has skulks and lots of them, they're not supposed to own the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought Flayra felt differently, but I just assumed. I was around for early NS days(maybe you were too), and I had gotten the impression that marines were about teamwork, whereas aliens could be more individual. So an encounter with an individual marine VS an individual alien would be tipped in the favor of the alien.
Marines: Team
Aliens: DM
To shorten it up horribly.
Teh paradox!
If a Skulk charges at you head first from the other end of that corridor, he will die. Period.
If a Skulk acts like he's supposed to and ambush you at a tight spot, you will die. Period.
If a Skulk ambushes a group of marines in a tight spot - well, then we see a relatively balanced fight between teamplay and DM <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>go play 2.0 instead of posting about how it needs changes</span></span> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
2.0 has brought a ton of new sounds, improvements, new weapons and it just generally makes NS a much more professional looking game
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
threads like these make baby onos cry
[edit]
changed font colors to look shnazy and made a point clearer
[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yet again, another ignorant post. What makes you think I haven't played? Don't assume I haven't played, I've played well over 80 games of 2.0 now, so keep your ignorance to your self. Sounds? new weapons? What new weapons? I've seen no new weapons, unless you mean the fade ability, Metobolize, oh yeah thats a huge change isn't it. Who cares about professional looking, you know what that means? "Professional looking", that is just another term for eye candy. You just like eye candy, like most people do. Well I value game play.
I've not made any change posts, I'm aware Flayra will discard any change posts, thats clearly not what this post is about. Has nothing to do with me adding ideas, I simply stated the few things that coulda been changed that woulda saved the devs alotta time and kept the game great. Yet you are like the 3rd person in this thread to say the SAME THING. "Play 2.0 before you judge it", ok so you're ASSuming that I haven't played it, yet I have, thus making me right and you wrong in 1 case. Ignorant people assume. Don't start spewing ignorance from your cake hole unless you can back it, rather than say the most unoriginal thing that has been said by everyone and their dog. "Play 2.0 before you judge it", not only have we done that BEFORE you said your ignorant comment, but thats also the most unoriginal and over used sentence on this forum.
Don't talk unless you have something worth saying, annoying kid.
and marines are extremely overpowered
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hahah, comedy gold! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why? if the comms that you're playing with are weak, it's not my fault... a good comm can beat the aliens very easily now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He means in non public games, or public games with lotsa very skilled regulars heh. It's actually true, its the exact same problem in 1.04, 2.0 didn't bring balance, it just nerfed things that were fun to use and changed alot. It's like re-arranging your living room, didn't even add a big screen TV, just moved things around and got rid of some things *cough* jet packs *cough*.
Same situation as 1.04, skilled marines always own aliens, public games = alien domination. Balance nothing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly
these new patches are still beta, but they're turning the alien team more weak than ever...
i hope that is not coming to be a finished patch
If a Skulk charges at you head first from the other end of that corridor, he will die. Period.
If a Skulk acts like he's supposed to and ambush you at a tight spot, you will die. Period.
If a Skulk ambushes a group of marines in a tight spot - well, then we see a relatively balanced fight between teamplay and DM <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, finally a smart person.
Lazy, not to exclude you, atleast you're debating in a mature way.
But yes, you are quite right about the skulk charging at teh end of a corridor.
Lazy, the fact that aliens have 4 different fighter classes, each getting stronger, I would only assume it to be fair that skulks get owned, UNLESS the marine is a newbie. I think a talented marine should find no good fight against a skluk that charges in. Lol I can recall many different times where in certain spots I could kill 15-20 skulks before I died (occasional medpack/ammo from comm of course), just because they charged in. I remember once at Shipping Tunnel on caged, I heard a gorge building, before he blocked the door I came in, killed the single skulk guarding him, killed the gorge, and proceeded to knife the res tower. I got 2 med packs due to the 1 skulk bite done to me and the heal spray damage, then I proceeded to knife the res tower, in the time it took me to finish knifing the res tower, between knifing segmants I would have to stop constantly to kill skulks. They charged in 1 at a time, instead of going through the 2 back ways which I would have no defense against up close (we all know skulks own up close range). So they came from Ventilation hive area 1 by 1, I ended up killing about 10-12 skulks by the time I was done knifing it, simply because they charged in 1 at a time, very foolish, we all know shipping tunnels lay out and how easy skulks are to kill there.
Yet all it would have taken was 1 smart skulk to come around back through the shipping tunnel opening/closing door or the vent right behind me and boom, I'm screwed. The point is to kill the skulks before they get in biting range, cause when they do you're usually screwed.
1 game I was skulking, it was a clan scrimmage, very very very good marine team (either that or aim botters, never missed a shot heh), so being out in the open got us nowhere. They had like 2 deaths and 20 kills k? Thats how good they were, even with cara and no weapon upgrades they mopped the floor with us. So I decide to wait above a door way, 3 of them pass me right up, and I jump down and kill 2 out of 3, simply because I used a bit of skulk tactics rather than foolishly charging in.
Any skilled marine should be able to own a skulk from a range as long as he sees the skulk long enough. The skulks aren't supposed to make themselves openly visible, they're not tanks. Fragile, but deadly. As it should be.
So yes, 1 skilled marine fighting a skulk out in an open hall way should most definately drop that skulk easily, the only time I think a marine should ever lose to a skulk out in the open is if he runs out of ammo or has like 1 bit left or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See, you either dind't play 1.04 often enough, or you sucked (not to diss) too much at it to enjoy the quality of 1.04's game play. Anyone I know who has skill, any decent player whos played 1.04 long enough agrees with me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i feel like thats a baseless, opinionated attack on anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. if not, please clarify.
i dont mean to sound like a jerk. that statement just didnt bode well with me at all.
i mean, yeah. im not the best guy out there. probably not the top 100, or even 500 around. but, id like to think im decent. i have a lot of experience with this game. and quite honestly i feel 2.0 is a vast improvement. yes, it has problems. no, it will never be perfect.
to me, it all depends on how you look at it. to me, the fade changes are as substantial and was workable as the lerk changes. it requires a new angle of work, but it can be done.
dont get me wrong. fades are nowhere near as good as they were. but i think they are still viable, to an extent.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See, you either dind't play 1.04 often enough, or you sucked (not to diss) too much at it to enjoy the quality of 1.04's game play. Anyone I know who has skill, any decent player whos played 1.04 long enough agrees with me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i feel like thats a baseless, opinionated attack on anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. if not, please clarify.
i dont mean to sound like a jerk. that statement just didnt bode well with me at all.
i mean, yeah. im not the best guy out there. probably not the top 100, or even 500 around. but, id like to think im decent. i have a lot of experience with this game. and quite honestly i feel 2.0 is a vast improvement. yes, it has problems. no, it will never be perfect.
to me, it all depends on how you look at it. to me, the fade changes are as substantial and was workable as the lerk changes. it requires a new angle of work, but it can be done.
dont get me wrong. fades are nowhere near as good as they were. but i think they are still viable, to an extent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people are easier to please. I still stand by that statement, its fairly true, not 100%. It was a general statement. I know there are very skilled and experienced players who like 2.0 more, but the MAJORITY don't (unless they're all hiding underground), I've talked to many many many very skilled and experienced players, I've met 2 who actually prefer 2.0, and yes, they are the lesser skilled 2. I've talked to many skilled people I don't know very well, most of them still agree. Just a general statement, not meant to tick anyone off.
Alotta people like eye candy, why do you think games like Warcraft 3 are liked more nowadays than Starcraft, people who have played neither will take a look at the difference in graphics and say "gee I wonder which I should pick har har". Same with games like EverQuest compared to Ultima Online, graphical differences, aka "eye candy", draw alot of players. I value game play over graphics, if super mario bros., the original, had more game play content I'd take that over NS anyday.
So why do highly skilled people like 1.04? I can see:
1)It's very different. Basically, they got really good at 1.04, and now the same tactics they were good at just aren't as effective.
2)To the right people, 1.04 really wasn't that unbalanced, so to some people 1.04 felt great, 2.0 felt like a step backwards balance wise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe, one thing should be cleared up, however: What many people do not seem to understand is that public appeal is in fact not the number one priority about NS's creation. First and foremost, it's supposed to come as close to Flayras vision as humanly and technically possible. We all are sorry if you miss aspects of 1.04 you greatly enjoyed, but if you were in Flayras position, would you rather extend upon a game that does not satisfy you artistically, or would you try to get it right? NS was always supposed to be a RTS with a FPS front-end. This includes strategic diversity, which is, whatever some will claim, by far greater than in 1.04 - thus, it fits the vision better. Fin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmmm how is this? I always thought of NS 2.0 as taking a snow globe, shaking it, and calling the new flake positions NS 2.0. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's not a bad shake, but I fail to see how it makes it less FPS and more RTS.
Why, you ask?
They spent MONTHS, TAILORING NS 2.0 to EXACTLY what people were asking for. They added new things to balance those out. They updated the graphics. They pulled out all the stops, and more or less, they took the gauntlet and ran with it.
Then, people like you show up. And start complaining about how "NS 2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better". Did you know thats not a reason? Also, I'd ask you, could YOU code devour? Could you, HONESTLY, find a way to write the C++ for ANY of the moves that people love now, like the new blink, Xenocide, parasite, motion tracking, ANY of it.
Sure, people loved 1.04. But you know what? More people like 2.0. You know why? Because its everything 1.04 WANTED to be, but about 10x more than it could EVER achieve. NS 2.0 is the kind of game that get GOTY awards, based purely on how fun they are. 1.04 would have gotten a award, sure, but without the diversity that 2.0 has, it wouldn't have gotten crap compared.
I've been wondering, for a long time, just how many people think they honestly know whats best for a game, and yet don't ever try it out, and never say thank you to the things they DO like about a game. I honestly hope one day that NS turns into a retail game, just because Flayra DESERVES every award on the planet for everything he's done for NS, and the COMMUNITY. Not some big company, but US.
Man...sorry bout that rant. Just people that keep saying that 2.0 stinks while giving basically no reason...I give no respect.
And just to let you know- it wasn't a decision to leave ns_nancy out of the game. They lost the source file.
Sure 2.0 has some balance issues, but it's fun either way.
And it is WAY more fun that DoD 1.0 is now...trust me, I have been playing it competatively for the last year and a half, and 1.0 is pretty freaking bad, which is why I am now moving fulltime to NS.
Why, you ask?
They spent MONTHS, TAILORING NS 2.0 to EXACTLY what people were asking for. They added new things to balance those out. They updated the graphics. They pulled out all the stops, and more or less, they took the gauntlet and ran with it.
Then, people like you show up. And start complaining about how "NS 2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better". Did you know thats not a reason?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I read that far then realized you just had the urge to suck up and/or attack someone on the forums. The last 2 sentences is what proves your feeble mindedness, did you even read what I said? Skimming over posts and posting a variety of ignorant assumptions seems to be a new trend.
When did I say "2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better", then claim it was a reason to change it back? I gave SPECIFIC reasons why 2.0 doesn't do justice to the name Natural Selection, I dind't just say "2.0 sucks cause 1.04 is better, the end", if you got that, then I think we know who is to blame.
I do think you've made a complete moron of yourself, anyone who cares to read my posts first, then read yours will surely agree even if they don't agree with why I posted.
A side note:
Stop calling them Onii, dear god, its like Moose, singular is moose, plural is moose, same thing for Onos, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know this, simple english that comes in 3rd grade classes.
Some people use Onii as plural and Onos as singular, some people use Onos as plural and Oni as singular, thats ignorance. Now I"m not going to make personal attacks on anyone, I know some of you say it because you see others say it, but its just wrong. If "Onos" was plural, then why is it in the section with singular names?
Lerk
Skulk
Gorge
Fade
Onos, not Oni, see the pattern?
And there is no Onii for multiple. Someones said something so blindingly stupid it made my head hurt. He said "well I"ll continue calling it Oni untill I see the devs say other wise". Last I checked the Devs put all the SINGULAR names together in the "Life forms" section of the evolve menu. Why would they make Onos the only plural one? You're not involving into multiple onos' , you're turning into 1, thus making Onos = Singular. Then basic english knowledge will tell you that Onos' is also the plural form, much like Moose.
Just thought I'd clear that up, it ticks me off everytime I see it.
Sure 2.0 has some balance issues, but it's fun either way.
And it is WAY more fun that DoD 1.0 is now...trust me, I have been playing it competatively for the last year and a half, and 1.0 is pretty freaking bad, which is why I am now moving fulltime to NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol....why should we "trust you" when you say 1.0 is bad, I've played it, I like it, its a matter of opinion. I see no real issues with it, I find it quite entertaining.
This is a problem, your OPINION doesn't make it fact, if you don't like it that doesn't mean everyone else will dislike it....now I KNOW people are gonna try to turn that around on me and say "Same with NS 2.0, its a matter of opinion", which is true but balancing issues are based on fact and not opinion. I've played 1.04 a TON, and played over 80 games of 2.0 now, I am well experienced enough in both public and private games to know balancing issues, I've stated them, there were less issues in 1.04.
For the third time. "If it aint broke', don't fix it"
Why, you ask?
They spent MONTHS, TAILORING NS 2.0 to EXACTLY what people were asking for. They added new things to balance those out. They updated the graphics. They pulled out all the stops, and more or less, they took the gauntlet and ran with it.
Then, people like you show up. And start complaining about how "NS 2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better". Did you know thats not a reason?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I read that far then realized you just had the urge to suck up and/or attack someone on the forums. The last 2 sentences is what proves your feeble mindedness, did you even read what I said? Skimming over posts and posting a variety of ignorant assumptions seems to be a new trend.
When did I say "2.0 sucks because 1.04 was better", then claim it was a reason to change it back? I gave SPECIFIC reasons why 2.0 doesn't do justice to the name Natural Selection, I dind't just say "2.0 sucks cause 1.04 is better, the end", if you got that, then I think we know who is to blame.
I do think you've made a complete moron of yourself, anyone who cares to read my posts first, then read yours will surely agree even if they don't agree with why I posted.
A side note:
Stop calling them Onii, dear god, its like Moose, singular is moose, plural is moose, same thing for Onos, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know this, simple english that comes in 3rd grade classes.
Some people use Onii as plural and Onos as singular, some people use Onos as plural and Oni as singular, thats ignorance. Now I"m not going to make personal attacks on anyone, I know some of you say it because you see others say it, but its just wrong. If "Onos" was plural, then why is it in the section with singular names?
Lerk
Skulk
Gorge
Fade
Onos, not Oni, see the pattern?
And there is no Onii for multiple. Someones said something so blindingly stupid it made my head hurt. He said "well I"ll continue calling it Oni untill I see the devs say other wise". Last I checked the Devs put all the SINGULAR names together in the "Life forms" section of the evolve menu. Why would they make Onos the only plural one? You're not involving into multiple onos' , you're turning into 1, thus making Onos = Singular. Then basic english knowledge will tell you that Onos' is also the plural form, much like Moose.
Just thought I'd clear that up, it ticks me off everytime I see it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I felt the need to attack because thats what you did.
And I backed up EVERYTHING I said.
I just replied to the part that mattered. You put words into my mouth that I never said. I quoted them from you, but you didn't quote them from me. That means you're either A) A liar, or B) Not very smart.
They don't.
Most games I play in 2.0 involve marines putting up a bigger fight than in any build I have ever seen before. Without resources and backed in a corner the marines hold off wave after wave of aliens, and the ALIENS are too strong?
Ummm, I don't think so. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Does this mean the game is balanced? Absolutley not. Stats from server ops I've talked with show marines only winning at most 33% of the time and often times less. So where does this inadaquacy come from? In watching and playing many games I tend to think much of this relates to the way in which aliens are allowed to build in the early game.
In other words, if we were to delay some of the alien expansion in the early game it could very well impact the game to the point where the marine team also gets an equal chance to expand and thus have an equal chance to win. To achieve this we really only need to make MINOR balance changes. Delay resource tower building in a simple but non-restrictive manner, and perhaps delay the second hive a bit. This alone could make the world of difference to balance.
Unfortunately all we're seeing are <b>massive</b> alien nerfs which target the symptoms and not the problem. It's only making matters worse and that can be seen in the bulk of the posts about 2.01c. If so many people think we are moving in the wrong direction, personally I'm inclined to believe them. Beta or not, the changes being made WILL suck the fun out of playing aliens. One of the reasons Flayra posted that 2.0 isn't balanced was that some "last minute changes were implemented to make the game fun" and that sacrified balance.
Does it really make sense now to flip it around and sacrifice fun for the sake of making the game balanced? I thought that's what we were trying to avoid with 2.0 in the first place. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Flayra has made it clear in his posts that these changes are mainly being made to cater to the needs of 'competitive players' (IE clans) and this may likely mean public play will suffer as a result. However, like everyone else here, I'm just along for the ride. This is Flayra's bus, and he's free to make whatever lane changes he wants. <b>I completely respect his position and decisions</b>, even if I may not agree with them. I can only hope that Flayra listens to the public's cry and takes their feelings and concerns into consideration.
Regards,
Savant
I just replied to the part that mattered. You put words into my mouth that I never said. I quoted them from you, but you didn't quote them from me. That means you're either A) A liar, or B) Not very smart. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you're trying to hold intelligent discussion, please refrain from such nonsense.
yes, your arguments <b>do</b> make sense. no, they aren't baseless. but please try to remain civil.
I mean, how can you honestly expect to be taken seriously when you respond to someone by saying "I didn't read everything you wrote" and then attack them. and yes, I read everything you wrote. you seem like a very intelligent person however, and I think we're all above this kinda crap.
it is, after all, a discussion not an argument.