<!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 13 2003, 05:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 13 2003, 05:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The greater the skill level, the less SoF helps; the player can find marines on their own and they will need more useful upgrades in order to increase their combat viability. For SC to be effective you really need cloak traps.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know where you're pulling this from. SoF helps on so many levels in every part of combat that I play in. If I'm about to assault a room with any critter, I want to know how many marines and where they are. If I'm about to ambush a group, I want to know exactly when the last one goes by. If I'm a lerk, I want to know where to target my shots when I jump around the corner.
As far as in combat, SoF turns the skulk from a suicide biter to a strategic hit-and-run critter. I run up, take out a marine, then run for cover, and see where everyone is before I make my next strike.
In non-combat situations I love SoF just as much - I keep my gorgey self out of trouble, and learn to avoid marines who may be waiting in hiding. In addition, it lets me know if its safe to build or evolve where I am.
I used to choose cloak because cloaking's fun, until I realized that SoF saved my life and earned me more kills than cloaking ever could - and besides, SoF plus a SC at the base makes it night impossible to take from marauding skulks.
It«s the most offensive thing in this game (no joke)
just drop 1 sens at start and then run near the marine base and ambush marines. If you do this nice marines will never reach res because they will get killed on their way. And you won«t need defs (most useless thing at start) because you can kill 1-2 marines before they can see you - With defs you will always get shot at. Gorgs should scatter sens chambers around the map which will cover your movement and will give you an advantage even if outnumbered (I have killed 5 clan marines when they tried to relocate to main hive in eclipse. I just dropped a sens chamber under the bridge and went guerilla).
skulk wth def can take more hits but will get shot at anyway skulk with cloak will get a sure fire kill wihout getting shot at
<!--QuoteBegin--kittycat+Aug 13 2003, 07:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kittycat @ Aug 13 2003, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sens first pwns..
It«s the most offensive thing in this game (no joke)
just drop 1 sens at start and then run near the marine base and ambush marines. If you do this nice marines will never reach res because they will get killed on their way. And you won«t need defs (most useless thing at start) because you can kill 1-2 marines before they can see you - With defs you will always get shot at. Gorgs should scatter sens chambers around the map which will cover your movement and will give you an advantage even if outnumbered (I have killed 5 clan marines when they tried to relocate to main hive in eclipse. I just dropped a sens chamber under the bridge and went guerilla).
skulk wth def can take more hits but will get shot at anyway skulk with cloak will get a sure fire kill wihout getting shot at
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most to every single cal league clan has never tried a relocation in match play as it ushally serves no viable gain (Match play != Scrim). Cal league clans also from what I have seen prefer movement chambers so I'm not sure were your getting the idea that we all like defense first because we dont.
This was on a public server with clan marines. I just wanted to demonstrate what a single skulk can do with cloak vs 5 clan marines
I did not say that everyone prefers defs but I get kicked from a server for that sens vs def battle and even get kicked out of a calan because I disagreed with the *chief tactics man*
I would accept move as a first chamber too even if I like cloak but I leave the server if I get def first.
<!--QuoteBegin--DeathPooky+Aug 13 2003, 02:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeathPooky @ Aug 13 2003, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 13 2003, 05:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 13 2003, 05:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The greater the skill level, the less SoF helps; the player can find marines on their own and they will need more useful upgrades in order to increase their combat viability. For SC to be effective you really need cloak traps.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know where you're pulling this from. ... <etc> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> use parasite.
You are probably a new player, I do not hold it against you but to identify what the problem is.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations.
This is probably more applicable to clan play where there are fewer players. Regardless, suppose that huge marine team is good. You would do better with parasite and good scouting skills and another chamber besides sens.
I'd have to agree with the clanner.. dc is wayyy better.. regen is the difference between an onos dieing, and an onos going outside the base healing and rampageing back in!
Purely in terms of their upgrade benefits, the order is (arguably) movement > defense > sensory. Purely in terms of their other benefits, the order is sensory > defense > movement.
Let's be honest, here. By comparison to the upgrades provided by the other chambers, sensory licks testicles. I'm not saying Scent of Fear is useless (far from it), I'm saying it's not as useful as carapace, adrenaline, celerity, etc.
What irritates me is when sensory is dropped first, and then not used properly. The strength of sensory is when you've set up SCs all around the map (and within range of trouble spots) so that skulks can kick arse without being spotted. Most games, however, some moron drops a single sensory chamber in base and that's the only sensory you'll see until second hive.
If you are not prepared to drop sensories around the map, don't waste my time. Drop something useful, like movement. The sensory chamber can turn the tide of the game, but its UPGRADES can't.
<!--QuoteBegin--doommarine+Aug 14 2003, 06:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (doommarine @ Aug 14 2003, 06:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd have to agree with the clanner.. dc is wayyy better.. regen is the difference between an onos dieing, and an onos going outside the base healing and rampageing back in!
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> REGEN GOOOODD! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> REGEN BADDD!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do people not even read my posts?
<!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are probably a new player, I do not hold it against you but to identify what the problem is.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance.
I personally dont care whether they get Sensory or Movement first, as long as Defense is the first or second upgrade. Defense towers are critical for WoL and for "Seiging" Marines. An Alien seige, for you noobs out there, is when a gorge build 3-5 DCs outside of there your trying to get the marines out of. This allows Onos to get Carapace, which makes them last about 20 seconds longer in combat, which means those turret farms, which dont heal without marine welders, are goin down.
It is almost impossible to take down a well placed turret farm in a 3rd hive without Defense Upgrades. Unless you have a gorge or two right outside the attacking area, that onos is going to have to run back to the hive, heal up ~450 hit points, and run back, during which the comm drops one 10 res welder and everything is good as new, in the addition to some shotties waiting for an Onos buffet.
Sensory and Movement are two different styles of play, both of which Im fairly competent at. If the gorge puts up Sensory, I get my cloaking and sit on the rines doorstep. If they get movement, I get celerity and endlessly throw myself at marines base, until they have a big enough turret farm that I patrol the map at high speed looking for expansions. If they get defense, carapace it is, and I run back to the hive to heal after every couple of kills so I dont hand the rines a 3 res desert...
I only really get **** when people try to get defense as the 3rd upgrade. Any marine team worth their weight will lock down at least 1 hive, and without DCs its a **** to take em back...
First - I totally agree with the idea that no one hive is a MUST for first chamber.
At the same time however, I need to address people saying "SC is such a 3rd hive chamber". If you're saying this, you're not fully grasping the strength of SC.
SC at endgame is all but pointless. Marines won't leave hive, they have MT, and have spent the whole game shooting your easy to see friends.
SC needs to appear as first or second chamber unless its a total whitewash of the marine team. Early-mid game before MT appears is when the SC maximises its use.
<!--QuoteBegin--DeathPooky+Aug 14 2003, 09:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeathPooky @ Aug 14 2003, 09:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are probably a new player, I do not hold it against you but to identify what the problem is.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Purely in terms of their upgrade benefits, the order is (arguably) movement > defense > sensory<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 15 2003, 04:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 15 2003, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DeathPooky+Aug 14 2003, 09:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeathPooky @ Aug 14 2003, 09:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are probably a new player, I do not hold it against you but to identify what the problem is.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So your saying that you can be a movement skulk and kill top clanners down a long hallway? Must of been some crappy top clanners if you ask me. No freaking way is any uncloaked Skulk going to kill me when im guarding a long hallway. Unless he leaps at you of course.
So you would rather them SEE you running at them thus letting them shoot you before you reach and bite them?
MC = Gives Marines a chance to control the fight. (Note i said chance. Sometimes you have advantage but only if the rine isnt being attentive. 10/10 they will shoot you if they see you.) If that rine is at the end of the hallway guarding, he is going to kill you.
SC = 100% of the time gives aliens to ability to decide when, where, how to engage the marines. w/ SC the marines are playing on your turf, just how it should be.
And how does SC rely on Marines being bad? You cant kill what you cant see. Being cloaked w/ SoF gives your the luxury to get next to them and bite them before they can take a shot on you. Element of surprise > Seeing you coming. Dealing with SC as marines w/o Obs and Scans is more about getting lucky then about skill. Whereas dealing w/ Movement aliens is more about your skill as a shooter then it is about luck. I would rather rely on them having bad luck then having bad skills.
And y waste your time listening and spying when you can be doing other productive things w/ SoF on? Sure you can parasite them but if your a good alien team they would be dying and you would be sitting there parasiting people spawning at IP every 30 seconds.
When you come out of cloak to bite someone, your pretty much guarenteed a kill. Only an idiot alien would bite, run, recloak, repeat on the same marine... If he was good there is a very high chance of you getting pwned when your running at him. Getting that first bite as a skulk pretty much dictates how the fight is going to end. Alien alive, Rine dead. Can the same be said for Movement skulks? Not likely as the rine will probably have unloaded his clip by the time you reaches him.
<!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 15 2003, 09:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 15 2003, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you read my post, you would have seen that I don't even attack with cloak. I use SoF to its fullest, which means I don't have to fight with cloak. Let's take an example to see how one uses SoF instead of charging at the enemy and praying they can't aim *that* well.
I'm defending Hera entrance from the usual marine attempt to take it first, and have level 1 SoF set up. I hear a squad of marines heading up the hall, and then see them on my SoF. Using SoF, I see that there are 5 marines, 3 initial ones, and 2 that are a little bit farther behind. The first group of 3 starts heading to the right, I jump out and munch on the first marine, then jump back behind the wall. I see the 2 other marines stop for a second and wait for their two brethren, then decide to head to the left to ferret me out, I run around behind and munch the back marine while they head around the other side of the wall. Obviously confused by these attacks, the 3 remaining marines head to the res node to take cover. By this time, another SC has gone up, and I have the range to see where they are around the res node. I hear a building warp in and begin construction, and I see one marine stopped (and thus the builder) while the other two keep their eyes peeled for me and move around a little. I wait for the right moment and jump out from my hiding space and attack the marine on the right, then jump behind the res node area - now here's where SoF REALLY comes in handy. I stare straight at the ledge i'm taking cover behind and see all three marines, I jump out and attack the builder and take him out, then hide behind the partially built building, and see marines to my left and right using SoF, I run around and attack the one to the left, then continue running around and take out the one to my right.
Thus, using SoF, I defended Hera entrance by myself from a squad of 5 marines. I guarentee that all the speed in the world wouldn't have prevented you from being taken down by those 5 marines. SoF (in addition to using my ears) gives me a level of knowledge about the marine's locations that changes me from a nusience to deadly. And I'd like to see you use parasite to accomplish the same thing, considering there were *5* of them, and you would have lost the element of surprise by doing so. And if you note, at no point was I cloaked - and I finished with 75% of my health because I used strategy to minimize the danger to me at any one time.
Maybe I should qualify my statements - in the hands of a good strategic player, SoF is invaluable. In the hands of a twitch skulk on crack, celerity is invaluable. I don't care which you are, but don't call me a newb because I'm strategic and you aren't.
<!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 15 2003, 04:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 15 2003, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DeathPooky+Aug 14 2003, 09:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeathPooky @ Aug 14 2003, 09:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--elchinesetourist+Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Aug 14 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are probably a new player, I do not hold it against you but to identify what the problem is.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bull. Sorry, but I sincerely doubt that there's a player in the game who can work out the exact number of marines approaching, and determine all their positions with high accuracy. That's what SoF gives you, and it's perfect for timing ambushes perfectly. Basically, what DeathPooky said. It depends on whether you player strategically, or with uber-twitch skills.
I'd consider SC the best skulk chamber, but I'd normally take MC first for it's ability with higher level aliens.
I do not "pray" they don't shoot well, the matter is that they do shoot well and I am able to dodge them.
I have SoF in my head; you have to have good (extremely good if you two can claim accurately to represent general alien players) situational awareness, spatial orientation, you have to be imagining where the marines are, and you can only do all this by listening, since it is not often especially in 2.0 that many marines are parasited.
Just the same that you do not face 5 marines all with ammo looking at you down a long hallway, so neither do I. But I can face 1 of them down a long hallway, sees me, has ammo, is good and is bent on killing me, and stand a reasonable chance. And I can do all the ambushing and predicting and hiding that you do against the groups.
so your saying you can figure out that its 5 Marines around the corner from listening through your headphones? I didnt think so.
And reasonable chance? More like 30%-70%... I bet you can kill him 95% of the time under cloak... or am i on crack?
Dodge him? Why work harder instead of smarter... you can straight charge them being cloaked. Do i need to dodge to kill that blasted marine? No i dont.
I'm not even going to argue or debate the usefulness of the sensory chamber itself or the upgrades it provides because I think it's mostly irrelevant.
However, I must say this:
Most of the pro sensory first arguments demonstrate an appalling lack of foresight.
Yes, SoF can be useful, cloak traps work, etc. However, by dropping SC as your first chamber, you are essentially committing your team to a 3 hive win. When (if?) you get a second hive, you will either have onos without redemption/regeneration or fades without adrenaline, significantly reducing their battle efficiency.
Despite all the improvements it received, the sensory chamber still has a critical flaw: none of its upgrades provide any sort of combat advantage. While this may be no big deal for skulks and perhaps lerks, it is a fundamental drawback for fades and onos.
<!--QuoteBegin--Spazmatic+Aug 9 2003, 04:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spazmatic @ Aug 9 2003, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Every chamber is viable on pubs. They're also viable in competitive play, but MUCH LESS so. There are sens-first clans, and they're scary... However, they're also very offensive, and use the sensories to pressure marine start. I haven't seen any effective sens-first clan play otherwise.
Advantages:
D First -> Regeneration saves skulks long trips to gorges -> Regeneration REALLY saves lerks -> Regeneration is needed for the effective early pre-hive fade -> Regeneration/carapace helps gorges extremely large amounts when in combat and healing ocs -> Carapace is okay for skulks -> They provide good healing stations, and make extra strong WoLs
M First -> Celerity makes skulks really really scary scouts and head-on attackers -> Silence makes sick ambush skulks (except for the stupid minimap trick) -> Adrenaline gorge gangs are SICK -> Celerity gorges run fast! -> Adrenaline lerks get you more spores per minute! -> Celerity lerks can fly 1.04 style! -> Can protect hives more easily when second one is going up -> Seriously helps against shotty rushes
S First -> Cloaking field rocks marines up and down and all around -> SoF makes skulks super good, both as scouts and marine chomping freaks of nature -> Offensive cloaking fields can win the game early -> Cloaked hives are easier to guard (including against shotty rushes) -> Cloaking can save gorges' butts, as can SoF -> Cloaking fields make it more likely marines will die to OCs -> Pheromones allows skulks who chew marines to taunt them with the fact that they're using pheromones -> Pheormones plus early oni is funny!
These are, by the way, only at hive one... When you have two hives, that's when D really comes into its own and becomes a requisite chamber. However, all are viable for hive one, though I'd suggest movement second if you go d first (sensory generally proves to be less useful by that point in time). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thanks for covering all i wanted to say. point is they all have there good points. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> for 1st upgrades.its whatever works for your team. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Kazyras+Aug 16 2003, 12:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kazyras @ Aug 16 2003, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not even going to argue or debate the usefulness of the sensory chamber itself or the upgrades it provides because I think it's mostly irrelevant.
However, I must say this:
Most of the pro sensory first arguments demonstrate an appalling lack of foresight.
Yes, SoF can be useful, cloak traps work, etc. However, by dropping SC as your first chamber, you are essentially committing your team to a 3 hive win. When (if?) you get a second hive, you will either have onos without redemption/regeneration or fades without adrenaline, significantly reducing their battle efficiency.
Despite all the improvements it received, the sensory chamber still has a critical flaw: none of its upgrades provide any sort of combat advantage. While this may be no big deal for skulks and perhaps lerks, it is a fundamental drawback for fades and onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i believed this was discussed before... What alien win is not a 3 hive win? You have to take out the base no? By then you would have 3 hive if aliens are gonna win.
Of course if they relocate you have to do a 2 hive win.
Offensive ability SoF. Tells me when those rines are running out trying to kill me. And i believe i already made a post some where i connected Cloaked ambush to offensive.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know where you're pulling this from. SoF helps on so many levels in every part of combat that I play in. If I'm about to assault a room with any critter, I want to know how many marines and where they are. If I'm about to ambush a group, I want to know exactly when the last one goes by. If I'm a lerk, I want to know where to target my shots when I jump around the corner.
As far as in combat, SoF turns the skulk from a suicide biter to a strategic hit-and-run critter. I run up, take out a marine, then run for cover, and see where everyone is before I make my next strike.
In non-combat situations I love SoF just as much - I keep my gorgey self out of trouble, and learn to avoid marines who may be waiting in hiding. In addition, it lets me know if its safe to build or evolve where I am.
I used to choose cloak because cloaking's fun, until I realized that SoF saved my life and earned me more kills than cloaking ever could - and besides, SoF plus a SC at the base makes it night impossible to take from marauding skulks.
It«s the most offensive thing in this game (no joke)
just drop 1 sens at start and then run near the marine base and ambush marines. If you do this nice marines will never reach res because they will get killed on their way. And you won«t need defs (most useless thing at start) because you can kill 1-2 marines before they can see you - With defs you will always get shot at. Gorgs should scatter sens chambers around the map which will cover your movement and will give you an advantage even if outnumbered (I have killed 5 clan marines when they tried to relocate to main hive in eclipse. I just dropped a sens chamber under the bridge and went guerilla).
skulk wth def can take more hits but will get shot at anyway
skulk with cloak will get a sure fire kill wihout getting shot at
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
It«s the most offensive thing in this game (no joke)
just drop 1 sens at start and then run near the marine base and ambush marines. If you do this nice marines will never reach res because they will get killed on their way. And you won«t need defs (most useless thing at start) because you can kill 1-2 marines before they can see you - With defs you will always get shot at. Gorgs should scatter sens chambers around the map which will cover your movement and will give you an advantage even if outnumbered (I have killed 5 clan marines when they tried to relocate to main hive in eclipse. I just dropped a sens chamber under the bridge and went guerilla).
skulk wth def can take more hits but will get shot at anyway
skulk with cloak will get a sure fire kill wihout getting shot at
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most to every single cal league clan has never tried a relocation in match play as it ushally serves no viable gain (Match play != Scrim). Cal league clans also from what I have seen prefer movement chambers so I'm not sure were your getting the idea that we all like defense first because we dont.
I did not say that everyone prefers defs but I get kicked from a server for that sens vs def battle and even get kicked out of a calan because I disagreed with the *chief tactics man*
I would accept move as a first chamber too even if I like cloak but I leave the server if I get def first.
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know where you're pulling this from. ... <etc> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
use parasite.
You are probably a new player, I do not hold it against you but to identify what the problem is.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations.
This is probably more applicable to clan play where there are fewer players. Regardless, suppose that huge marine team is good. You would do better with parasite and good scouting skills and another chamber besides sens.
You must learn to survive without wallhack.
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> REGEN GOOOODD!
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> REGEN BADDD!!!
Let's be honest, here. By comparison to the upgrades provided by the other chambers, sensory licks testicles. I'm not saying Scent of Fear is useless (far from it), I'm saying it's not as useful as carapace, adrenaline, celerity, etc.
What irritates me is when sensory is dropped first, and then not used properly. The strength of sensory is when you've set up SCs all around the map (and within range of trouble spots) so that skulks can kick arse without being spotted. Most games, however, some moron drops a single sensory chamber in base and that's the only sensory you'll see until second hive.
If you are not prepared to drop sensories around the map, don't waste my time. Drop something useful, like movement. The sensory chamber can turn the tide of the game, but its UPGRADES can't.
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> REGEN GOOOODD!
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> REGEN BADDD!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do people not even read my posts?
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance.
It is almost impossible to take down a well placed turret farm in a 3rd hive without Defense Upgrades. Unless you have a gorge or two right outside the attacking area, that onos is going to have to run back to the hive, heal up ~450 hit points, and run back, during which the comm drops one 10 res welder and everything is good as new, in the addition to some shotties waiting for an Onos buffet.
Sensory and Movement are two different styles of play, both of which Im fairly competent at. If the gorge puts up Sensory, I get my cloaking and sit on the rines doorstep. If they get movement, I get celerity and endlessly throw myself at marines base, until they have a big enough turret farm that I patrol the map at high speed looking for expansions. If they get defense, carapace it is, and I run back to the hive to heal after every couple of kills so I dont hand the rines a 3 res desert...
I only really get **** when people try to get defense as the 3rd upgrade. Any marine team worth their weight will lock down at least 1 hive, and without DCs its a **** to take em back...
-Cio
At the same time however, I need to address people saying "SC is such a 3rd hive chamber". If you're saying this, you're not fully grasping the strength of SC.
SC at endgame is all but pointless. Marines won't leave hive, they have MT, and have spent the whole game shooting your easy to see friends.
SC needs to appear as first or second chamber unless its a total whitewash of the marine team. Early-mid game before MT appears is when the SC maximises its use.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
sens - move - (no def) <---- I don?t need that piece of ****. Just for lame quake style deathmatch
sens pwns since 1.0
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your saying that you can be a movement skulk and kill top clanners down a long hallway? Must of been some crappy top clanners if you ask me. No freaking way is any uncloaked Skulk going to kill me when im guarding a long hallway. Unless he leaps at you of course.
So you would rather them SEE you running at them thus letting them shoot you before you reach and bite them?
MC = Gives Marines a chance to control the fight. (Note i said chance. Sometimes you have advantage but only if the rine isnt being attentive. 10/10 they will shoot you if they see you.) If that rine is at the end of the hallway guarding, he is going to kill you.
SC = 100% of the time gives aliens to ability to decide when, where, how to engage the marines. w/ SC the marines are playing on your turf, just how it should be.
And how does SC rely on Marines being bad? You cant kill what you cant see. Being cloaked w/ SoF gives your the luxury to get next to them and bite them before they can take a shot on you. Element of surprise > Seeing you coming. Dealing with SC as marines w/o Obs and Scans is more about getting lucky then about skill. Whereas dealing w/ Movement aliens is more about your skill as a shooter then it is about luck. I would rather rely on them having bad luck then having bad skills.
And y waste your time listening and spying when you can be doing other productive things w/ SoF on? Sure you can parasite them but if your a good alien team they would be dying and you would be sitting there parasiting people spawning at IP every 30 seconds.
When you come out of cloak to bite someone, your pretty much guarenteed a kill. Only an idiot alien would bite, run, recloak, repeat on the same marine... If he was good there is a very high chance of you getting pwned when your running at him. Getting that first bite as a skulk pretty much dictates how the fight is going to end. Alien alive, Rine dead. Can the same be said for Movement skulks? Not likely as the rine will probably have unloaded his clip by the time you reaches him.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you read my post, you would have seen that I don't even attack with cloak. I use SoF to its fullest, which means I don't have to fight with cloak. Let's take an example to see how one uses SoF instead of charging at the enemy and praying they can't aim *that* well.
I'm defending Hera entrance from the usual marine attempt to take it first, and have level 1 SoF set up. I hear a squad of marines heading up the hall, and then see them on my SoF. Using SoF, I see that there are 5 marines, 3 initial ones, and 2 that are a little bit farther behind. The first group of 3 starts heading to the right, I jump out and munch on the first marine, then jump back behind the wall. I see the 2 other marines stop for a second and wait for their two brethren, then decide to head to the left to ferret me out, I run around behind and munch the back marine while they head around the other side of the wall. Obviously confused by these attacks, the 3 remaining marines head to the res node to take cover. By this time, another SC has gone up, and I have the range to see where they are around the res node. I hear a building warp in and begin construction, and I see one marine stopped (and thus the builder) while the other two keep their eyes peeled for me and move around a little. I wait for the right moment and jump out from my hiding space and attack the marine on the right, then jump behind the res node area - now here's where SoF REALLY comes in handy. I stare straight at the ledge i'm taking cover behind and see all three marines, I jump out and attack the builder and take him out, then hide behind the partially built building, and see marines to my left and right using SoF, I run around and attack the one to the left, then continue running around and take out the one to my right.
Thus, using SoF, I defended Hera entrance by myself from a squad of 5 marines. I guarentee that all the speed in the world wouldn't have prevented you from being taken down by those 5 marines. SoF (in addition to using my ears) gives me a level of knowledge about the marine's locations that changes me from a nusience to deadly. And I'd like to see you use parasite to accomplish the same thing, considering there were *5* of them, and you would have lost the element of surprise by doing so. And if you note, at no point was I cloaked - and I finished with 75% of my health because I used strategy to minimize the danger to me at any one time.
Maybe I should qualify my statements - in the hands of a good strategic player, SoF is invaluable. In the hands of a twitch skulk on crack, celerity is invaluable. I don't care which you are, but don't call me a newb because I'm strategic and you aren't.
True SoF helps and it is useful. But you can get by without it whereas other upgrades are more critical for hairy situations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like you to look at my forum join date to see how long I've been playing before you accuse me of being a newb. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
SoF works incredibly better than parasite for anyone intending to play the strategic skulk. Smart players who get parasited don't go on important missions where the marines are trying to take a location before the skulks know about it. SoF lets me keep tabs on every area in the game without running around too much, and without revealing that I'm watching them. Once you parasite a marine, that marine is going to be looking over his shoulder for you, and knows that you're out there. SoF allows me to look at 3 marines trying to take a hive, see their locations, wait for the right time, then run in and take all 3 of them out before they even knew I was there.
There's no need for me to be faster or stronger if I can plan out the battle beforehand and strike with little chance of getting killed. It becomes very easy to kill 4-5+ marines in a group this way, using hit and run techniques. If I see that there's a group of 4, and one straggler, I get behind the group, take out the straggler and retreat to plan my next move. Celerity isn't going to help you as much kill a group of marines unless they are horrible shots. You rely on your opponent being bad to do well. I don't like to take that chance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, YOU rely on your opponent being bad to do well.
You don't need SoF to do all that planning, you can listen and spy. With parasite especially it makes no difference.
Consider, good aliens don't even need SoF to figure things out. 2nd, if you uncloak smack and run, who's to say that he will not dodge and pwn you? If he is good, it is possible.
Now, consider y you do not face them w/o cloak. it is because you think they will pwn you.
I tell you they do not have to. I tell you it is possible to take on top clanners w/o cloak and be able to dodge and also kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bull. Sorry, but I sincerely doubt that there's a player in the game who can work out the exact number of marines approaching, and determine all their positions with high accuracy. That's what SoF gives you, and it's perfect for timing ambushes perfectly. Basically, what DeathPooky said. It depends on whether you player strategically, or with uber-twitch skills.
I'd consider SC the best skulk chamber, but I'd normally take MC first for it's ability with higher level aliens.
use headphones. Practice
I do not "pray" they don't shoot well, the matter is that they do shoot well and I am able to dodge them.
I have SoF in my head; you have to have good (extremely good if you two can claim accurately to represent general alien players) situational awareness, spatial orientation, you have to be imagining where the marines are, and you can only do all this by listening, since it is not often especially in 2.0 that many marines are parasited.
Just the same that you do not face 5 marines all with ammo looking at you down a long hallway, so neither do I. But I can face 1 of them down a long hallway, sees me, has ammo, is good and is bent on killing me, and stand a reasonable chance. And I can do all the ambushing and predicting and hiding that you do against the groups.
And reasonable chance? More like 30%-70%... I bet you can kill him 95% of the time under cloak... or am i on crack?
Dodge him? Why work harder instead of smarter... you can straight charge them being cloaked. Do i need to dodge to kill that blasted marine? No i dont.
However, I must say this:
Most of the pro sensory first arguments demonstrate an appalling lack of foresight.
Yes, SoF can be useful, cloak traps work, etc. However, by dropping SC as your first chamber, you are essentially committing your team to a 3 hive win. When (if?) you get a second hive, you will either have onos without redemption/regeneration or fades without adrenaline, significantly reducing their battle efficiency.
Despite all the improvements it received, the sensory chamber still has a critical flaw: none of its upgrades provide any sort of combat advantage. While this may be no big deal for skulks and perhaps lerks, it is a fundamental drawback for fades and onos.
Advantages:
D First
-> Regeneration saves skulks long trips to gorges
-> Regeneration REALLY saves lerks
-> Regeneration is needed for the effective early pre-hive fade
-> Regeneration/carapace helps gorges extremely large amounts when in combat and healing ocs
-> Carapace is okay for skulks
-> They provide good healing stations, and make extra strong WoLs
M First
-> Celerity makes skulks really really scary scouts and head-on attackers
-> Silence makes sick ambush skulks (except for the stupid minimap trick)
-> Adrenaline gorge gangs are SICK
-> Celerity gorges run fast!
-> Adrenaline lerks get you more spores per minute!
-> Celerity lerks can fly 1.04 style!
-> Can protect hives more easily when second one is going up
-> Seriously helps against shotty rushes
S First
-> Cloaking field rocks marines up and down and all around
-> SoF makes skulks super good, both as scouts and marine chomping freaks of nature
-> Offensive cloaking fields can win the game early
-> Cloaked hives are easier to guard (including against shotty rushes)
-> Cloaking can save gorges' butts, as can SoF
-> Cloaking fields make it more likely marines will die to OCs
-> Pheromones allows skulks who chew marines to taunt them with the fact that they're using pheromones
-> Pheormones plus early oni is funny!
These are, by the way, only at hive one... When you have two hives, that's when D really comes into its own and becomes a requisite chamber. However, all are viable for hive one, though I'd suggest movement second if you go d first (sensory generally proves to be less useful by that point in time). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thanks for covering all i wanted to say. point is they all have there good points. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> for 1st upgrades.its whatever works for your team. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, I must say this:
Most of the pro sensory first arguments demonstrate an appalling lack of foresight.
Yes, SoF can be useful, cloak traps work, etc. However, by dropping SC as your first chamber, you are essentially committing your team to a 3 hive win. When (if?) you get a second hive, you will either have onos without redemption/regeneration or fades without adrenaline, significantly reducing their battle efficiency.
Despite all the improvements it received, the sensory chamber still has a critical flaw: none of its upgrades provide any sort of combat advantage. While this may be no big deal for skulks and perhaps lerks, it is a fundamental drawback for fades and onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i believed this was discussed before... What alien win is not a 3 hive win? You have to take out the base no? By then you would have 3 hive if aliens are gonna win.
Of course if they relocate you have to do a 2 hive win.
Offensive ability SoF. Tells me when those rines are running out trying to kill me.
And i believe i already made a post some where i connected Cloaked ambush to offensive.