Natural-selection Will Never Be As Popular
X_Stickman
Not good enough for a custom title. Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Not good enough for a custom title. Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">As, say, Counter-Strike</div> It's true, sorry kiddies, but it is. To be good at CS, you only need about 4 things, and two of those things are eyes and hands. I'm not flaming CS players here, i played CS for a good 2 years (or about that) and had a lot of fun playing it, until i realised that a majority of the players were interested only in their scores, and if they had ONE MORE KILL than you, they were suddenly God and you were like a worm. Fine, ok, so i quit playing CS (i don't even have it installed any more, or even the .exe to install it).
But you see Ladies and gentlemen, to play our good mod Natural-Selection, you have to have brains, or at least SOME intelligence. Unfortunatly, as many people have noticed, the intelligence of NS players as a whole is staying about the same, yet more people are playing (which is not good). I personally know quite a few players who would be considered "Good" (clanners mostly) that have quit the game because they're just bored. I know other people know people who have quit too.
I'm bored too. You simply can't get a good Pub game any more, with the release of 2.0, there have been TONS of new players joining, and they don't know how to play at all. Again, i have no problem with this at all (i can remember screaming at the comm for a welder so i could build <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). But it seems to me that they have no intention of learning. It seems as if we have gained a good proportion of the hacker community from CS, and while they are not hacking in NS, they're attitude towards other gamers is the same, I.E, they are better than everybody and everybody else is wrong.
I have two definitions of the word "N00b". The first is "Newbie" which is someone who is new to the game, nothing wrong with that, they have to learn the game because it is quite different to most other games that we play. They are generally willing to learn the game, and ask questions that are useful (i.e, can i follow someone to get the hang of the map, how do i get new weapons etc). I try and help these people by telling them the answers, yet i see lot's of other people who have been playing the game about 4 days start shouting "OMG N00B AHAHHA GET OFF THE SERVER NUB". Which brings me to my second definition.
Nub, or Nubcaek. These are the people who have just started playing, and have no idea how to play at all. The thing that seperates Nubs from Newbs is the fact that Newbs are willing to learn, whereas Nubs seem to love annoying people. They don't know how to play the game, but they don't care, so they won't learn either. yet they continue to play the game, being insulting, rude and just general.... nubs to everyone. The main problem here is that Nubs seem to outweigh Newbs 10 to 1 at the moment, which leads on to the next point.
Experienced players are bored of pub games, or at least, they're bored of the people in them. Most of the servers i play on still have a lot of the old players playing there, but there's at least 5 people on the server constantly that fall into the "Nib" category, so most of the experienced players/clanners sod off to their own servers, and keep them passworded/locked. Many people, as i have said, have stopped playing NS altogether.
I know two clans that have completely given up with NS, they're just not coming back. All the nubs that are playing now will eventually get bored of dying all the time and go back to CS. These two things combined means that Natural-Selection will never, ever be as popular as all the other mods, because it relies on the players to be intelligent, which unfortunatly is not the case most of the time.
This might seem like a self-proclaimed leet player ranting at all the n00bs. But it's not, I'm not a clanner, i just don't find the idea of Clan play in NS appealing. I am an experienced player in the sense that i've been playing NS since about an hour after it came out, doesn't mean i'm good, but i know how to play the game. This is just to get people's ideas on my opinion, because i'd like to see how many people agree/disagree with me.
Oh yeah, there is one thing that annoys me more than anything, and that's being insulted by an "NSPlayer". I hate people who use the default name, but then act all good and stuff. It's not like it's hard to change, either use "name xxxx" in the console (in the ready room, i know) or change it in the options. I'm aware that some people re-install and forget it, but they should notice when they see "NSPlayer has joined the game". I mean, i'm fed up with looking at the player list on a server and seeing someone called "(7)NSPlayer". That's just plain annoying, but it goes to show my point about the influx of Newbs/nubs.
Discuss etc, but no flaming (ground rule really).
But you see Ladies and gentlemen, to play our good mod Natural-Selection, you have to have brains, or at least SOME intelligence. Unfortunatly, as many people have noticed, the intelligence of NS players as a whole is staying about the same, yet more people are playing (which is not good). I personally know quite a few players who would be considered "Good" (clanners mostly) that have quit the game because they're just bored. I know other people know people who have quit too.
I'm bored too. You simply can't get a good Pub game any more, with the release of 2.0, there have been TONS of new players joining, and they don't know how to play at all. Again, i have no problem with this at all (i can remember screaming at the comm for a welder so i could build <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). But it seems to me that they have no intention of learning. It seems as if we have gained a good proportion of the hacker community from CS, and while they are not hacking in NS, they're attitude towards other gamers is the same, I.E, they are better than everybody and everybody else is wrong.
I have two definitions of the word "N00b". The first is "Newbie" which is someone who is new to the game, nothing wrong with that, they have to learn the game because it is quite different to most other games that we play. They are generally willing to learn the game, and ask questions that are useful (i.e, can i follow someone to get the hang of the map, how do i get new weapons etc). I try and help these people by telling them the answers, yet i see lot's of other people who have been playing the game about 4 days start shouting "OMG N00B AHAHHA GET OFF THE SERVER NUB". Which brings me to my second definition.
Nub, or Nubcaek. These are the people who have just started playing, and have no idea how to play at all. The thing that seperates Nubs from Newbs is the fact that Newbs are willing to learn, whereas Nubs seem to love annoying people. They don't know how to play the game, but they don't care, so they won't learn either. yet they continue to play the game, being insulting, rude and just general.... nubs to everyone. The main problem here is that Nubs seem to outweigh Newbs 10 to 1 at the moment, which leads on to the next point.
Experienced players are bored of pub games, or at least, they're bored of the people in them. Most of the servers i play on still have a lot of the old players playing there, but there's at least 5 people on the server constantly that fall into the "Nib" category, so most of the experienced players/clanners sod off to their own servers, and keep them passworded/locked. Many people, as i have said, have stopped playing NS altogether.
I know two clans that have completely given up with NS, they're just not coming back. All the nubs that are playing now will eventually get bored of dying all the time and go back to CS. These two things combined means that Natural-Selection will never, ever be as popular as all the other mods, because it relies on the players to be intelligent, which unfortunatly is not the case most of the time.
This might seem like a self-proclaimed leet player ranting at all the n00bs. But it's not, I'm not a clanner, i just don't find the idea of Clan play in NS appealing. I am an experienced player in the sense that i've been playing NS since about an hour after it came out, doesn't mean i'm good, but i know how to play the game. This is just to get people's ideas on my opinion, because i'd like to see how many people agree/disagree with me.
Oh yeah, there is one thing that annoys me more than anything, and that's being insulted by an "NSPlayer". I hate people who use the default name, but then act all good and stuff. It's not like it's hard to change, either use "name xxxx" in the console (in the ready room, i know) or change it in the options. I'm aware that some people re-install and forget it, but they should notice when they see "NSPlayer has joined the game". I mean, i'm fed up with looking at the player list on a server and seeing someone called "(7)NSPlayer". That's just plain annoying, but it goes to show my point about the influx of Newbs/nubs.
Discuss etc, but no flaming (ground rule really).
Comments
The gaming community is simultaneously growing older and younger, people are starting to play at an earlier age and quitting later. Just like there are books that you can't read as a kid (try handing a seven-year old a copy of The Lord of the Rings, he'll most likely quit it after a few pages) and books that you grow out of, so games will be targeted as specific ages. NS is a game that aims for an older range of players than CS does because of its higher complexity, and as players grow older, so will games like NS grow in popularity. CS-like games will always stay popular with the younger players because they're accessible and relatively easy to learn, while NS is a game for people that are willing to use a little more time on learning how to play the game.
OK, maybe they don't have a score to go by (which is a total lie since there is a handy command called /status that keeps track of kills), but if you don't think that people think they're god by going onos before anyone else does, then I don't know what to say. And then there're the comms who follow build order's he didn't come up with and blames his team for losing. Or the elite players who whine incessantly about getting a weapon/heavy armour even though the resource counter clearly says the team doesn't have enough. Or the marines who whine about their commander not doing what they want and trying to get them ejected if the commander does his own thing. People don't change, and CS has nothing to do with it.
Heck, there're even people who couldn't handle the "complexity" of CS winning conditions, and thusly created the 'fy' series of maps.
I love NS, it's a great game, but I can usually only play 2-3 games in a row... then I start to get bored. (which is good, because at that point my keyboard-arm is usually sore and stiff) I've seen my fair share of ****, even before, who played the Rambo card far too often for anything's good.
As was said, the problem's not the game, it's what the average FPS'er finds fun... which is a sadly low standard...
I'm sure those that are interested in learning will get better, those that aren't will get over it.
Give it time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, I understand your feelings here. I suppose you could say that it's society on the moral/intellectual decline. I think most people who are not a part of the "nub" group know about this, so repeatedly bringing it up and discussing it doesn't do much in the way of finding a solution. Then again, perhaps the problem continues to surface because we have not done enough to solve it? Is this a problem that can be solved by us? I don't know.
You can't change people.
lol that's all i had to say
Must be after my time. What's "fy"? Maps without hostages or bombspots?
while mmorpgs arent the same games as FPS but the communities are pretty equal.
but in the end the mod might change but the ppl who play them remain the same.
same jerks, same l337dewds etc.
my opinion regarding CS ( which i played from beta 2.0 b4 it came "official" ) was that it changed from being a teambased CT simul to a simpler quake style modern fps. It got dumbed down. Which is what the devs wanted or Valve wanted or whoever, it doesnt matter , but in the end i dont really recognise CS from the older days which is why its so popular, you pretty much dont need any teamwork or brains to play it. Its fun to jump in without worrying about the game. No thinking required.
NS wont be as popular . And i am fine with that.
And, if you had read it, that is exactly what i said. The mod is too complex for most of the <b>people</b> who have the same attitude towards NS as they do towards CS, which means they'll eventually give up on NS, making NS not as popular because it doesn't appeal to the no-brained masses that seem to make CS so popular.
And in answer to someone elses question about the fy_ maps, they're basically deathmatch maps, very small, you pick up weapons from the ground and kill the other side. simple, and fun sometimes.
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Must be after my time. What's "fy"? Maps without hostages or bombspots? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An "fy" map is pretty much a deathmatch style map. Every weapon lying on the ground waiting to be picked up, small boxed in arenas with various crates and walls for cover.
Back on topic; I don't mind if NS ever becomes the most popular MOD. Its purpose is to provide an innovative new way for people to play FPSs, and it is doing that very nicely. I would much rather leave the CSers on their servers rather than having them come over to NS to show everyone how "leet" they are. After the nubs leave and the dust clears, we will be left with the true fans of the MOD, and we will know that, despite the numbers, NS is better than CS.
The popuplation of NS people will always be far below the population of CS people...not to unsult anyone.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, lets face it. The population of smart people will always be far below the population of dumb people.
The popuplation of NS people will always be far below the population of CS people...not to unsult anyone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats not insulting, its the truth.Theres nothing wrong with that either. To each his own. Smart or dumb. As long as their happy I don't see a problem <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not if you can help, all people can learn, maybe some more than others, but it's up the people really.
As for Haze's statement, that is not neccesarily true
The popuplation of NS people will always be far below the population of CS people...not to unsult anyone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Half Life is the most popular game EVER, and its MODS are some of ther most populated on the net!
Right now NS is getting more, the same or less players than DoD, but to be in CS 1st place spot, we would need some where of around 80k more players all the time!
This wont happen and it can't happen!
There is no Mod that will ever have as many players as CS
Its a simple and basic FPS game and thats why ppl like it!
Anyone can play that game and do ok!
Games like CS and DoD are retail games, without being a retail game and spending a ton of money to get noticed NS could never have half as many players as CS.
There is no point in saying "NS will never be as big as CS"
thats a given, its impossible!
Just look here on the stats page and you will see why we will never be First place for HL mods!
<a href='http://www.gamespy.com' target='_blank'>Stats</a>
Thats doesn't mean we wont be 2nd place and hold it!
NS is a far better game than CS when it comes to skill and atmosphere!
And, if you had read it, that is exactly what i said. The mod is too complex for most of the <b>people</b> who have the same attitude towards NS as they do towards CS, which means they'll eventually give up on NS, making NS not as popular because it doesn't appeal to the no-brained masses that seem to make CS so popular.
And in answer to someone elses question about the fy_ maps, they're basically deathmatch maps, very small, you pick up weapons from the ground and kill the other side. simple, and fun sometimes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this mod is not that complex at all, if you're not intelligent enough to shoot things, bite, or use any other weapon in the game, you just have problems. I don't understand what the problem is, the only possible role that takes any particular part of intelligence is being a commander. Sure you do have to use some thinking being a soldier/alien warrior but it's not that much, so quit crying about complexity.
Included in this category of players who think it is cewl to suddenly start singing off the top of their longs !
like, you get on a server and you hear someone who has a mike yelling for aid halfway down the map.
He dies!
suddenly, he's all over the place naming ppl newb because 'they are so lame, they don't know how to play, they should quit, blah blah blah'
usually, at the end of the game, this person is ranked no higher then 3d last on team, BUT he managed singlehandedly to destroy any attempt at teamplay and teambuilding <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
meaning to ask this a while back, can I mute someone in NS ? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
because when I don't, I'm sure to give a stinging reply, after which they concentrate on calling me newb, lame, all that sh1t.. while I'm usually ranked up there in top-3 of team at the least..
which gets me all fired up, and I get creative again.. and I don't want to get creative on anything else but how to hunt marines (or aliens when I'm stuck with rine team)
That is the trouble with knowing a lot of black humor, sarcasm, etc.. you call somebody a name, and he don't even realize he's just been put out with the trash.. then, after 5 minutes, he finally understands the angle, comes back with more of the same, after which he's sent off again with a quizzical look on his face <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Your arguments regarding CS as a void, having little or no intelligence, are wrong. Have you not encountered a genuinely good CS player? Not just someone with fast reflexes, but someone with the cunning to predict your every move and still have the hand-eye coordination to peg you in the head from clear accross the map. No, I don't believe you have. For if you did, you would understand that NS and CS are sadly, in the same boat. CS does have an intellectual crowd- you just never see them. They hide, shamed to be associated by the 13 year olds who have claimed such a wonderful game as their own. They password protect their servers, play in invite only gaming leagues, and associate secretly in heavilly moderated corners of the web (and irc channels). Sound familliar? You see, we are just like them. We are shunned, and forced out of the homes, webpages, and servers we built with our own hands and for why? For a place without stupidity, that's why. We are starving artists, martyrs, fanatics, and most of all, gamers. We are the few, the proud, the... intelligent.
Embrace the intelligent gamers on HL mods everywhere, for we all use the same gaming engine! And so, I implore you, do not turn to your fellow CS player yell "yuo sux0r". Instead, stand hand in hand with the intelligent CS players and yell "Roger that!" or "Lets move out!" and shed a tear for the gamers who have not been blessed with the intelligence required to play each respective game.
On a serious note: Imagine how intelligent CS players feel playing NS for the first time? "Wow, this game requires a bunch of strategy, but there's a bunch of lamers playing that can't do anything right! I'm going back to my cal-i CS clan now!" Think about it, you're all in the same boat right now. You can't blame either mod for filtering idiots into either population for stupidity is rampant accross all games and not just CS or NS. The first day 2.0 came out, the stupid players were cute. Now, however, they're infuriating. You all know the stories, I don't need to go into details. I can only implore people to stick together. Pubbies have already drove me to clans or playing on heavilly moderated, low-n00b/idiot-tolerence, servers. We must stick together and attempt to unify our community. Start up a good server list, get a worldwide "good NS player listing" together. Talk to each other. We must fight back against this red, stupid, scare. The commie.... uh, idiots must not prevail!
wow. nicely put. I wish I can find a nice little private server too... I don't know where to start though... :/
It's not the truth. Not more true than if I would say to you, "you are a moron". Hey, I didn't insult you, it's the truth. Why? Because I said you are a moron, just like you said that this group over here is morons. It's a matter of opinion.
(While the post is directed at the one who posted the quote, "you" is meant to be the general sense, not anyone in particular.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose but that wasn't my point. My point was, why should it matter how popular something is. If we are all having fun doing it, then we already have won
[Homeworld 2 gonna pwn teh comlex <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->]
EDIT: I have to say that a lot of you "veterans" need to get of your high horse and realize that you were new once also so stop trying to put down the new guys. You guys get less respect from me because you played this game longer and you are still carrying that kind of attitude.
[Homeworld 2 gonna pwn teh comlex <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->]
EDIT: I have to say that a lot of you "veterans" need to get of your high horse and realize that you were new once also so stop trying to put down the new guys. You guys get less respect from me because you played this game longer and you are still carrying that kind of attitude. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I highly disagree. I haven't played AoE2, but Ive played both Civ 3 and alpha centauri, beaten AC on librarian mode, etc...
Those games are all complicated by obfuscation. Size, scope just hide the fact that those games are at most as complex as NS,the fact that you're army is a coordinated effort by real people who make mistakes or do excedingly well on skill, and don't win simply because they have 5-3 weapon:defense calculated by a computer roll (which is how combat is done in AC/civ).
NS is about combining the resources and insights of all the teammates, every person in NS has the ability to shift the game as part of their own contribution, and the team that can communicate and be on the same page will generally prevail. This is the human factor which makes NS so much more revolutionary.