F4 Good Or Bad?

GanjaGanja Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10038Members
I don't do it myself but recently many people I know have started complaining about people F4'ing from the game because they are losing one said
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its just a game, so don't be a poor sport and F4, then make up some crap excuse that "the marines were taking to long to kill us," or "most of our guys were AFK anyway." Let it be known that I am now recording every game I play, so if I do see you F4ing, Cracker Jack Mack will be getting a call from everyone's favorite Mexican...me.

NS is a fun game, so keep it that way. Don't be a pansy and F4. Just take it like a man (or woman where it applies).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And others agreed with him but I put it to you as I put it to them . . . NS IS A GAME

It is meant to be enjoyed by all, and getting repeatedly killed because of overwhelming circumstances is not fun for anyone

On another note this is why they removed the score counters from NS in my opinion, because the game is meant to be WON, its not about getting the best kill count or death count, its about winning the game, once you've proven you're superior and the other team quits then you have done just that, you have won the round at which point you can start a whole new game that may end up the same way or it may end up being an evenly stacked game that takes 3 hours and is fun as hell(1/100)

Either way F4ing is fine in my opinion, whats your take on it?
«13

Comments

  • Minstrel_KnightMinstrel_Knight The truth and nothing but the truth... Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9562Banned
    Overly drawn out games with no change in the side with the advantage are too common in 2.0 so I say f4 away.
  • fo_sheezy_my_neezyfo_sheezy_my_neezy Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10768Members, Constellation
    my take on it is that it's a cheap way to end the game quickly. I would never F4 out of a game because I was loosing, because I would get upset if I was finally winning and the other team F4ed. I know how annoying the marine end-game can be (marines sitting in their spawn with GLs and HMGs, 40 turrets and 3 electrified TFs, sitting on the res they get for RFK to reoutfit that GL or HMG, or maybe drop an HA, just to prolong the game. That's ridiculous on the other end of the extreme. But, as for F4ing, I'm against it. I've been on alien teams that have lost due to attrition from the F4-ers, and we actually had a VERY good chance to win (as in, they had 2 hives locked down, but we had just taken out one of them, and were gorging it up, and we had a fade and 2 onos running around..... a VERY winnable game, but 4 guys decided it was a lost cause, so they ditched us to autoconcede)
  • TheDestroyerTheDestroyer Tooobah Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18123Members, Constellation
    Ganja, when I posted that, I ment the F4'ing because the loser team (usually the aliens when they lose F4), realizes they are gonna lose, not the fact that marines wanna "stat hog" (actuall term replaced do to younger viewers) and raise their stats.

    When I posted that in the CO Forums, I meant that F4'ing because you don't wanna "officially" lose is bad. When I am playing a game, I don't wanna have people F4, because I wanna play a game, practice strats, and have some fun. When people F4, it angers me, I go into "Mexican Rage" mode, and end up stop playing for a while. If you are commiting to a game, then play it to the end. This ain't Risk! (I have never fully played a game of Risk, everyone always ends up quitting when I play...hence the connection)

    If you would like to see the origional post that started this, click<a href='http://forums.covertoral.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=469' target='_blank'>here</a> for the link.
  • SirusSirus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8466Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
  • XzilenXzilen Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11642Members, Constellation
    I think its fine, some games are just too bloody long otherwise.
  • SpazmaticSpazmatic Join Date: 2003-05-10 Member: 16184Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->because I wanna play a game, practice strats, and have some fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And which one of those things is disturbed by ending a stale endgame?

    Your strat will have played through already, if they're in such a horrific position that there's no chance of winning.

    The game is essentially over, with only paperwork left to be signed.

    There is little fun left for either team, imho, as you're essentially chewing up cannon fodder, and they're essentially being chewed while trying unsuccessfully to bite heavies to death.

    There's a difference between newbie F4ing because they "think" wrongly that the game is lost, and a really, truly lost game where the marines have both hives and their base and the double res, each with 50 turrets, and are walking towards your last hive with heavies but camping outside rather than killing you.
  • sk84zer0sk84zer0 Join Date: 2003-06-18 Member: 17478Members
    The only time i f4 is if the other team agrees
  • TheDestroyerTheDestroyer Tooobah Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18123Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And which one of those things is disturbed by ending a stale endgame?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Its not the ending stalemates that is the problem. I'm all for F4 then. The problem is with the alien teams starting to lose alittle hope, then they go a F4'ing away.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We play games to have fun. If it's not fun, why play? Blame the players all you want, in the end, it's the games fault.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok, if you have read my post on the other forum, you would have saw the basketball game analogy. If you are playing a game, and the other team quits, the basketball game has gone from fun to no fun. And if this happens repeatedly, then it gets old fast, you get mad at the people who quit, and basketball is no longer fun to you. Its the same concept.
  • ZdrozZZdrozZ Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12158Members, Constellation
    I dont like it when some people hit F4 too fast, but I'll do it often, when it's hopeless. I have only 3-4 hours to play NS due to a 50+ working week, why should I stay? F4 is a nice thing to start a new round on my favorite server, or should I join another server when I have no fun in this round? When people from one team leave the server the round is over anyway...
  • AaO-AlphaAaO-Alpha Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19646Members
    Personally I think it is a weak player who F4's at first sign of loss. This happened 5 consecutive rounds, the side who was loosing (not that much btw) 4 of them disconnected. I am sure everybody knows that it's not easy to fight off a team long enough for you to get the upper hand, and then to have it all ripped away because 5 dimwits can't stand loosing. Its pathetic.

    To all of you that F4/disconnect at the first sign of loss, please get a life. And let the rest of us play like decent human beings.

    Alpha
  • ZdrozZZdrozZ Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12158Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--[-AaO-]Alpha+Aug 13 2003, 12:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([-AaO-]Alpha @ Aug 13 2003, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To all of you that F4/disconnect at the first sign of loss, please get a life. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    funny. I F4 because I have a life, a wife and kids and I don't want to waste my time in a stale endgame.
    Don't get me wrong, I only F4 if I see no chance for a comeback...
  • noelephantnoelephant Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13518Members
    I think that concedeing through pressing F4 is definitly a good option to have available.

    Several instances in which I wholehartedly agree to its use:

    1) Marines have aliens bottled up in their last hive, control the map yet do not come in to destory the hive. this gets boring and very frustrating.

    2) Aliens sit in the nearly destroyed marine base waiting to devour every marine that spawns in.

    3) Pretty much any other instance of frustrating and hopeless gameplay. For example, a huge frustrating stalemate where both sides become bored; It's time to f4 and get a new map.
  • FodderFodder Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19350Members
    If the game is already over, the marines holed up in their start base and Onos all over the place, I'll quit if I don't plan to play another game. If I do plan to play another game, I'll have a smoke and be AFK and let the Onos have their jollies devouring me until the next round starts.

    It's stupid to expect people to sit around and get their butts kicked when the game is already over. I don't even see why people would complain about F4ing. The game is won; there is no more challenge, just the 'thrill' of beating up on disadvantaged opponents. The weak player is the one who wants to continue such a pointless game, not the person F4ing.
  • sTrYkErsTrYkEr Join Date: 2003-04-07 Member: 15280Members
    unless your down to an ip and 3 onos just standin above it devouring im with the ride it out crowd. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MrMojoMrMojo Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9882Members, Constellation
    It depends how the game is.


    For example, from a marines standpoint, if the aliens are truly trying to finish the game but the marines push them back, that's just fine and f4 isnt needed. However, when the aliens sit outside your base, get a bunch of o's and d's, and while lerks spore you, onos rush out, devour and run off constantly...f4 is needed if no attemt to end the game is made.


    If the marines are rushing your hive, getting phase gates outside, but you interrupt them, f4 is bad. If the marines get turrets, and phases at every single rt on the map while you're stuck in your hive, F4.
  • TheDestroyerTheDestroyer Tooobah Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18123Members, Constellation
    NoImagination, explain how it is the games fault, when the game is just complex coding and 3D models. The game is itself nomatter what, it is what the players do that make it fun or not.

    It is the simple fact that humans feel they must win all the time. The people who F4 when they see a hint of failure are the weak players who cannot overcome this instinct. By sitting there and taking the capping and not F4'ing, proves they are the superior players. If the marines win, let them finish the aliens off. The aliens always finish the marines off, so why not the other way around.

    ...and Mr. Mojo, do you not know how to move fast enought to dodge the turrets?
    How many people do you know that put turrets evenly around the tf when they baracade the hive. Plus this brings me back to allowing the marines to enjoy their victory instead of F4'ing.

    celerity + jumping walls = saved skulk past baracade

    One other thing....there is no such thing a a true stalemate. NS seems to be desinged with stalemates in mind. seige towers, onos, grenade launchers, bile bomb, hmg, acid rocket....if you can learn how to use them correctly, stalemates will rarely to never happen.
  • ForkehForkeh Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19431Members, Constellation
    f4ing is ok as long as it is valid. When you are losing and you have no way of winning i think NONE should f4. Maybe if something is really wrong. If there is spawn campage, or something rotten is going down. I look at f4ing as lame. I don't care if you f4 as long as I'm having a **** game myself. I look at f4ing as a way of giving up. Many players are big and tough, and dont like to admit themselves to be less then other players. But f4ing is giving up, admiting you have been defeated and that you suck big balls. in essence it should make the f4ers mad to do so.
  • UnknownUnknown Join Date: 2002-06-12 Member: 759Members
    The only time I F4 is when changing teams (I'm an admin, I have to keep the teams even... even if it means losing an Onos or whatever) and when the marines have no chance of winning (assuming I'm a marine.). I never F4 as an Alien (except for the afore mentioned reason).
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--*Fodder*+Aug 13 2003, 01:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (*Fodder* @ Aug 13 2003, 01:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If the game is already over, the marines holed up in their start base and Onos all over the place, I'll quit if I don't plan to play another game. If I do plan to play another game, I'll have a smoke and be AFK and let the Onos have their jollies devouring me until the next round starts.

    It's stupid to expect people to sit around and get their butts kicked when the game is already over. I don't even see why people would complain about F4ing. The game is won; there is no more challenge, just the 'thrill' of beating up on disadvantaged opponents. The weak player is the one who wants to continue such a pointless game, not the person F4ing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Never before has the arguement defending the proper use of f4 been so well put.
  • fo_sheezy_my_neezyfo_sheezy_my_neezy Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10768Members, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    the point everyone seems to be missing is that the problem lies not with end-game F4s, but with mid-game F4s because it looks like your team MIGHT loose. If you're team is loosing, and it's a STALEMATE (well, close to one anyways), then by all means, get the game over with. I've played a few 1 hour end-games, and it's not fun at all. If the other team is sending an HA+lvl 3 shotty rush into your last hive, you're dead in 1 minute anyways, let the marine team win! If it's the middle of the game and no one has gone gorge yet to drop any RTs and you decide that's reason enough to F4..... grow a pair. It's the equivalent of playing solitare on your computer and quitting if you don't get 3 or 4 aces in the first time through the deck. The difference is that you're screwing over entire teams of real people, not just resetting a single player game.
  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
    edited August 2003
    NS IS a game. Like chess, or go. In a game of chess or go, a skilled and mature player can see if his opponent's strategy has him cornered and he's going to lose. He will then resign and congratulate his opponent. That said, NS rarely has skilled or mature players... if you're on the losing team and you don't F4, you're prolonging a match you already lost rather than moving on to a new game or map where you can fight another fair battle and actually gain some skill. If you're on the winning team and you complain about the other team F4ing, you need to get a life; if your main source of enjoyment in NS is shooting helpless players or players at an extreme disadvantage, you ought to just play against bots and stay offline. People need to learn the meaning of sportsmanship...

    Now, on the other hand, quitting when the game is far from over... THAT's lame. For example:
    quitting when the RNs are 8 vs. 2 and the marines just killed your second hive (1 left): OK.
    quitting when the RNs are 6 vs. 4 and the marines just killed your third hive (2 left): lame.
  • fo_sheezy_my_neezyfo_sheezy_my_neezy Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10768Members, Constellation
    the problem with 2.0 is that the outcomes are rarely ever decided before the turtle shell on the marine side, or before the siege is going off on your final hive for the alien side. We were resourceless as aliens (8 vs 2), and they had sewers locked down tight, we had nothing in gen besides the hive because we had no res, and they somehow got a phase gate and siege up in vent, with HAs (GL, shotty, and LMG), and we still ended up coming back to win, even though we had lost the hive and all the upgrade chambers. Someone decided to sacrifice his onos res for the good of the team (me), and we won. We unified and took out their res until we pushed them into sewer hive (still with HA), and no res nodes. Then, next game, they had 2 hives, 3 onos, multiple fades, skilled skulks, and we were screwed as marines. My net glitched and went down about the time we shotty rushed their hives (I was there for the killing of one, and never saw past that). Server was full when I got back up and running, but my friend was comm and said 15 minutes later they won. These are just 2 examples in one night. I see no reason to F4 unless you've got a stalemate. I can't even begin to explain how much skill I've gained and how many tactics I've learned by being on the loosing team.
  • ScarletPhoenixScarletPhoenix Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19133Members
    There are a couple things that will make me F4.

    (a) Aliens have three hives, control the entire map, and are just playing with us for over fifteen minutes.

    (b) Spawn camping when you have the clear victory.

    © Epic last stand with no hope of victory drags on for over a half hour due to GL spam and turret spam. There is no clear plan for victory, and the comm isn't providing any help besides "let's make it hard for them." Actually, I ususally DC in that situation because not enough people F4 to restart the round.

    Now, I know some people say "play it out" and "take it like a man." I agree, F4 is probably the least satisfying way to end a round, but I'd rather end it and start a new one than drag out the locked victory for two round lengths.

    And before you start complaining, a commander that knows what he's doing and is actually trying to do something is a thing that will prevent my F4ing. For example, we had been clearly outclassed in ns_tanith and there was no way to make it to a res node without dying. However, they didn't have three hives yet so the comm said for everyone to stay in base and get RFK, recycled the turrets and TF to get more res, put it into researching upgrades and sent everyone out with an HA, a welder, and a better weapon. Marines still lose 99% of the time, but at least that's a game worth playing where something happens proactively.

    Additionally, some of you will have to get a lot more turret standoffs under your belt before you understand why some of these people are quitting. Playing out the same endgame scenario over and over again is not much fun. It makes NS become more like team DM, which is obviously not the reason we're playing NS.
  • MaxGallagherMaxGallagher Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11627Members
    As a marine, I f4 when: we control only our base res node, and no one can leave the base without getting eaten because of aliens hanging around outside every exit with webs and sensory chambers. I find absolutely no amusement in futiley defending the slowly collapsing marine base for ten or fifteen minutes. And if aliens feel cheated out of their victory, too damn bad.
  • Infected_MarineInfected_Marine Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
    I agree that because NS is a game it should be played to be enjoyed, but if you have to be winning to enjoy it, something is wrong with you. F4 is just for gamers with problems.
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    edited August 2003
    I think I've posted this somwhere before but here it goes...

    The whole endgame marine spawn lockdown thing is being blown way out of properation, and the only reason it is an issure right now is because people aren't used to having to have end game strategies as aliens. Marines have always had a strategy to end the game "Siege the last hive" "Rush the last hive with HA" "Rush the last hive with JP" etc. Aliens only have plan of actions to to take over and secure hives, and although they can be incredibly organized while securing hives as soon as that third hive goes up the aliens become disorganized and beging to blindly rushing the marine spawn. The aliens now need end game strategies such as "Primal scream and bile bomb" "Carapace/Regening Onos with gorge support" "Blinking fade assaults" (an easy way to get past the GL spam).


    I've played in maybe 2 out of 300 games where the alien team managed to come together after they've had 3 hives because of this we managed to get 3 lerks and 6 gorges, the lerks primal screamed and umbraed and the gorges all Bile Bombed, it took about 15 seconds to completely destroy the marine spawn.
  • fo_sheezy_my_neezyfo_sheezy_my_neezy Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10768Members, Constellation
    cool post threadjacker <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MoonMoon Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8873Members
    edited August 2003
    The problem with F4 - like most things - is that it is subject to abuse. To end the game at the first sign of trouble is just ridiculous IMO. I do not like to see Mc NS games i.e. quick and cheap.

    It is sporting to allow the other team a chance to end the game properly. If they resort to lame tactics like spawn killing IPs etc. without making an attempt to end the game - then F4 is justified.

    I can understand the temptation for those who do not have much time to play NS per day being somewhat liberal with their F4 usage, but please remember that your fun is dependant on other people's fun. If you are not prepared to sacrifice a bit of personal fun for somebody else (sticking around till the end), why should they stick around for the times when you might want to blast that final hive or eat that last IP ? If these things are not all that important to you _fine_ but please keep in mind that they might be important to others and show a bit of compromise and sportmanship.

    If I'm wanting fast action on limited time NS is not my Mod of choice. I'd rather play something like TS if I don't have much time for gaming. IMO it should be understood that NS games can take hours, and this fact should be respected at all times.
  • JohnnySmashJohnnySmash Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18870Members
    When one side has a clear huge advantage, such as aliens getting hive 3 and all the resource nodes 5 minutes into the game... then I'd consider F4ing ok. Usually what happens after that is Marines fight for their nodes, they lose them, then they either turret up or the aliens wreck the base.

    So predictable. But I wouldn't F4 less than 5 minutes into the game. Some servers won't let you.

    A lot of people just get mad when the other team F4s because they had an advantage and all the cool upgrades and could have destroyed the Marines nice and good. It's the same reason people in RTSs will tech up and play around with their enemy instead of ending the game like they should.

    Bottom line is that once you KNOW one team needs a miracle to win I think it's ok to F4. Sure- it's fun for the other team to have an advantage and know they can easily take them out- but that's wrong. The other team isn't having any fun. Let's just start a new game so everyone can have fun.

    -JohnnySmash
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Aug 13 2003, 11:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Aug 13 2003, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Quitting is bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Getting addicted is worse...


    Point being, F4 wouldn't be in the game if it didn't serve a purpose. On the other hand if It were my server, I'd ban for exploiting a games weakness. (F4 for a lame reason) I wouldn't ban though if it was because it was a 3 hour stalemate, etc.
Sign In or Register to comment.