F4 = taking gameplay away from others who decided to let you have a nice game with them. Your views do not matter unless you are with the majority, taking gameplay away from others is wrong.
Want to get banned? Come to one of the many servers I have admin at and F4.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Aug 15 2003, 03:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Aug 15 2003, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> - In the words of the reverend fo shizzle: "F4ing = no twinkie" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> actually, he said "F4 = NO ****"
I find the end-game utterly boring so I just want it over with. This means that as an aleien I want to kill the Marines as quick and permanently as possible when we've won and as Marines I want the last hive to go down asap. If this is not happening quick enough for my liking, I will consider hitting F4. If this is undesirable to you, tough, speed up the process.
F4-ing at the first setback is of course lame and no-one is actually arguing that, so the anti-F4 people can stop talking about it.
Fighting to the bitter end is all well and fine as long as the end is in sight. When Marines/Aliens are waiting to turret/lame up the whole map before they finish it or are just suddenly too unorganised to finish it, spare yourself and the other team the boredom and F4.
Frankly I think most of the whining about F4 is from kids who think the most satisfying part of the game is dominating your opponent. Non-stop killing Vanilla marines as Onos, or skulks as HA. I find that tedious and unsatisfying. To me the game is only interesting as long as it is undecided. And frankly, I am not going to spend 10 minutes respawning just to die 2 seconds later to satisfy someone who doesn't appreciate the true nature of games.
To make this really really easy to understand:
F4-ing when you *think* you're gonna lose = bad F4-ing when you *know* you're losing but it is taking too long = good
<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Aug 15 2003, 04:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Aug 15 2003, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Okay, this is getting stupid. Lets consolidate:
- We all pretty much agree, F4ing for no reason other than: - Just the mere chance of comming back is all the more reason of my NOT F4ing. I love a good challenge. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love a good challenge as well, but we're talking about the point of no return here. Such as when onos constantly run in your base, devour a HA, get redeemed, but lack the teamwork or motivation to destroy your outpost. I don't enjoy long drawn out hopeless situations.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- This is a game for mature players, F4ing for no other reason that your own dissapointment in the game is immature. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know about you, but forcing a team into a losing battle for 30 minutes with no hope of a comeback just to get the personal satisfaction of "Oh boy, we killed every last structure in their base" seems selfish, rude, and immature to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- There is no random chances or skill base in chess, it is math. NS is not math, hence why more people play it than chess (grr). Therefore, losing is not a foregone conclusion in any case.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fail to see how you can say there is no hope of a comeback in chess. There is that SAME chance of a comeback as in NS, say if your opponent makes a foolish move, or you just happen to get lucky and find an excellent move (or series) that puts your opponent into checkmate. So don't draw conclusions based on the possibility of comebacks in chess.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Death is inevitable, losing games in NS is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
F4 isn't to avoid losing, it's to hasten the inevitable, so this is irrelevant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Fifteen minutes is not a long game, I get upset when people F4 before the half hour mark, short of that being fifteen minutes of spawn camping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now you're arguing not to F4 30 minutes into the game? F4s are acceptable in any point of the game which are getting drawn out, IMHO.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- F4ing is quitting. - Conceeding is sportsmanlike, but F4ing isn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All depends on your point of view, I suppose. But who are you to say that "so and so" means this and "such and such" means that?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All in all, I see F4ing as a pointless idea. Of course, as long as there is the ability to turtle up with 25 turrets and 3+ nade launchers for over two hours, it's debateable. But then again, there's always "retry" or "exit". F4 is just an easy way for the ball-less (no, ladies, you aren't included there) to get out of a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it has something to do with the concept of F4ing? Because in your head a situation that is appropriate to end hastily should be achieved not by the means of F4ing, but rather through other ways to get to the readyroom. This makes no sense. So if I were to "retry" 3 minutes into the game, you would have no objections?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->An IQ test should be required by WON auth servers, then server admins can set a limit on who can login to thier servers. Wouldn't that be rich, hehe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry about the horrible spacing, I went to edit my post and got a bunch of HTML code for the whole page it seems like, with no "Submit Modified Post" button. Weird....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I love a good challenge as well, but we're talking about the point of no return here. Such as when onos constantly run in your base, devour a HA, get redeemed, but lack the teamwork or motivation to destroy your outpost. I don't enjoy long drawn out hopeless situations.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This has been addressed and it's been conceded that this would be a righteous F4, invalidating your comment.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know about you, but forcing a team into a losing battle for 30 minutes with no hope of a comeback just to get the personal satisfaction of "Oh boy, we killed every last structure in their base" seems selfish, rude, and immature to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> See above comment
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I fail to see how you can say there is no hope of a comeback in chess. There is that SAME chance of a comeback as in NS, say if your opponent makes a foolish move, or you just happen to get lucky and find an excellent move (or series) that puts your opponent into checkmate. So don't draw conclusions based on the possibility of comebacks in chess.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh man, don't get monkey started on chess. I've never seen him loose a game, and it's a high point for him <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So it has something to do with the concept of F4ing? Because in your head a situation that is appropriate to end hastily should be achieved not by the means of F4ing, but rather through other ways to get to the readyroom. This makes no sense. So if I were to "retry" 3 minutes into the game, you would have no objections?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Retrying would have a noticable effect if you play on servers that we play on. Ones that are almost always full, and where a "retry" may loose you a spot in the server. I guess I'd have to say I thought about this concept a little, but haven't come to any difinitive conclusions as to whether I'm for or against it.
Retrying can't lose you your spot so if that is your only argument for it then your whole "retry instead of F4" idea is indeed quite silly.
And if you agree with F4 being ok in the above situations, what's your problem? Why don't you find a situation where you DON'T think it is ok to F4 and we DO.
I had alot more to say on this topic, but I'd just be repeating what everybody else has already mentioned.
I'll just say that as a marine, I get annoyed when the other team quits before it <i>feels</i> like we are actually winning. We may have one hive locked down, and we might have a tenuous hold on another, but I've seen this changed easily with a few well-placed skulk attacks.
Comments
F4 = taking gameplay away from others who decided to let you have a nice game with them. Your views do not matter unless you are with the majority, taking gameplay away from others is wrong.
Want to get banned? Come to one of the many servers I have admin at and F4.
Simple really.
actually, he said "F4 = NO ****"
just like AWPers in CS, but that's another post
The stars represent male genetalia
F4-ing at the first setback is of course lame and no-one is actually arguing that, so the anti-F4 people can stop talking about it.
Fighting to the bitter end is all well and fine as long as the end is in sight. When Marines/Aliens are waiting to turret/lame up the whole map before they finish it or are just suddenly too unorganised to finish it, spare yourself and the other team the boredom and F4.
Frankly I think most of the whining about F4 is from kids who think the most satisfying part of the game is dominating your opponent. Non-stop killing Vanilla marines as Onos, or skulks as HA. I find that tedious and unsatisfying. To me the game is only interesting as long as it is undecided. And frankly, I am not going to spend 10 minutes respawning just to die 2 seconds later to satisfy someone who doesn't appreciate the true nature of games.
To make this really really easy to understand:
F4-ing when you *think* you're gonna lose = bad
F4-ing when you *know* you're losing but it is taking too long = good
- We all pretty much agree, F4ing for no reason other than:
- Just the mere chance of comming back is all the more reason of my NOT F4ing. I love a good challenge.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love a good challenge as well, but we're talking about the point of no return here. Such as when onos constantly run in your base, devour a HA, get redeemed, but lack the teamwork or motivation to destroy your outpost. I don't enjoy long drawn out hopeless situations.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- This is a game for mature players, F4ing for no other reason that your own dissapointment in the game is immature.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know about you, but forcing a team into a losing battle for 30 minutes with no hope of a comeback just to get the personal satisfaction of "Oh boy, we killed every last structure in their base" seems selfish, rude, and immature to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- There is no random chances or skill base in chess, it is math. NS is not math, hence why more people play it than chess (grr). Therefore, losing is not a foregone conclusion in any case.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fail to see how you can say there is no hope of a comeback in chess. There is that SAME chance of a comeback as in NS, say if your opponent makes a foolish move, or you just happen to get lucky and find an excellent move (or series) that puts your opponent into checkmate. So don't draw conclusions based on the possibility of comebacks in chess.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Death is inevitable, losing games in NS is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
F4 isn't to avoid losing, it's to hasten the inevitable, so this is irrelevant.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Fifteen minutes is not a long game, I get upset when people F4 before the half hour mark, short of that being fifteen minutes of spawn camping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now you're arguing not to F4 30 minutes into the game? F4s are acceptable in any point of the game which are getting drawn out, IMHO.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- F4ing is quitting.
- Conceeding is sportsmanlike, but F4ing isn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All depends on your point of view, I suppose. But who are you to say that "so and so" means this and "such and such" means that?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All in all, I see F4ing as a pointless idea. Of course, as long as there is the ability to turtle up with 25 turrets and 3+ nade launchers for over two hours, it's debateable. But then again, there's always "retry" or "exit". F4 is just an easy way for the ball-less (no, ladies, you aren't included there) to get out of a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it has something to do with the concept of F4ing? Because in your head a situation that is appropriate to end hastily should be achieved not by the means of F4ing, but rather through other ways to get to the readyroom. This makes no sense. So if I were to "retry" 3 minutes into the game, you would have no objections?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->An IQ test should be required by WON auth servers, then server admins can set a limit on who can login to thier servers. Wouldn't that be rich, hehe. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Careful what you wish for.....
This has been addressed and it's been conceded that this would be a righteous F4, invalidating your comment.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know about you, but forcing a team into a losing battle for 30 minutes with no hope of a comeback just to get the personal satisfaction of "Oh boy, we killed every last structure in their base" seems selfish, rude, and immature to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See above comment
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I fail to see how you can say there is no hope of a comeback in chess. There is that SAME chance of a comeback as in NS, say if your opponent makes a foolish move, or you just happen to get lucky and find an excellent move (or series) that puts your opponent into checkmate. So don't draw conclusions based on the possibility of comebacks in chess.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh man, don't get monkey started on chess. I've never seen him loose a game, and it's a high point for him <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So it has something to do with the concept of F4ing? Because in your head a situation that is appropriate to end hastily should be achieved not by the means of F4ing, but rather through other ways to get to the readyroom. This makes no sense. So if I were to "retry" 3 minutes into the game, you would have no objections?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Retrying would have a noticable effect if you play on servers that we play on. Ones that are almost always full, and where a "retry" may loose you a spot in the server. I guess I'd have to say I thought about this concept a little, but haven't come to any difinitive conclusions as to whether I'm for or against it.
Edit: Can't spell it would seem
And if you agree with F4 being ok in the above situations, what's your problem? Why don't you find a situation where you DON'T think it is ok to F4 and we DO.
I'll just say that as a marine, I get annoyed when the other team quits before it <i>feels</i> like we are actually winning. We may have one hive locked down, and we might have a tenuous hold on another, but I've seen this changed easily with a few well-placed skulk attacks.