<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and invisible defending skulks are killing machines. They are in the middle of your squad but you don't see them until they attack. They hunt you and they always know where you are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any half decent com scans an area before sending his precious squad of walking alien resources in there. Forward observatories are beind built all the time now (at least on the australian servers); what use is cloaking if you can't cloak? If the marine see you they know that you're weak from no mcs or dcs, and that makes you easier to kill.
SOF is nice, but knowing that 6 marines are coming for you doesn't really help you when you lack the speed or endurance to reach them and kill them. It's good for killing rambos, but marine squads with forward observatories and frequent scans are very tough to ambush, which is what you'll have to do lacking silence, celerity, carapace or regen. Fact is that of all the chambers, SC is probably the easiest to counter. MCs need MT to negate silence (there's no counter to celerity or adren), DCs need weapon upgrades (25 arms lab, 30 lvl 1, 40 lvl 2). Now personally I'd rather force the marines to spend their precious early res on expensive upgrades like that rather than free scans and 20 res forwards obs.
Uhh....cloaked players are semi-transparent,a player with really good eyes should be able to discern a cloaked alien from the rest of the background just because of slight discoloration
Plus celerity skulks are much more harder to hit,essentially putting the Aliens on the offensive and forces the marines to go on the defensive, unless of course they all are gods at aiming,in which case you could prolly lose
SoF is only good for lerks spore and fades acid rocket, and that risk-taking gorge that is willing to set up an SC right outside MStart
<=== is that risk taking Gorge that builds SC and DCs right outside rine start.
Im always gorge most of the game until i turn Onos. Then i get someone going Gorge drop a MC, turn back to skulk and wait for Onos. Im like ****, if your gonna drop a chamber you want you better be playing Gorge then. Cause when i drop SCs i drop them ALL over the map.
On NS_Bast ive found 4 genius SC placing spots. Even found this spot where i can drop 1 SC and 5 DCs to heal the hive where i can guarentee Rines will never find unless they already know about it. Making the hive invincible. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And every double res has a elite SC hiding spot where rines will never find them unless they get incrediably lucky... giving me the ability to bilebomb the **** out of them.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Aug 15 2003, 06:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Aug 15 2003, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thinking outside the box works, folks. The trick is to get outside the damn box first, and stop bitching about 'XYZ is best first' and just try mixing it up. Surprises are the best tactic. An untrained soldier can do many things a multi-times-over Veteran can't accomplish, because they'll try to do it the 'wrong' way, and succeed because the enemy doesn't know how to defend against anything but the 'right' way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, I have nothing against sensory first, sensory is good, but sensory first every fricken time I play aliens is too much. I don't want to do the same thing over and over again, that is boring. I was under impression that the 2.0 chambers are more balanced and every chamber is more or less viable. It is sad if the chamber order becomes set to stone like in 1.04.
Sens is, imo, the best chamber for skulks. I don't give a damn about cloaking - scent of fear gives me the ability to ambush groups of marines with extreme ease. The problem is, it's not future proof for higher classes, so I'd go MC first overall. I certainly wouldn't get mad at someone for playing SC first, though.
Hehe, this is great <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think what we're seeing is a difference of playing style. I think all chambers are pretty much viable, the reason the squabbling is taking place, is because some have preferred means of playing.
Those who choose sensory play a lil more stealthily or like the built-in wallhack that is SoF.
Those who go movement prefer something to augment their in-your-face combat style.
Now, I don't care to start any kind of fight, but I must say what I will. I make sure sensory is dropped first when I am alien(No I am not a admin anywhere) because I mostly stay gorge and build sensory everywhere effectively, so aliens will move through over half the map cloaked, with scent of fear so marines have little to no chance of advancing and taking ground on us. Now I find movement nice and all but Defence of course comes next because if everyone dropped one res tower(or near there) then Onos/Fades, will be coming around this time. Movement of course is forced to take the backseat, and I personally find it fine because unless movement is built 3 next to each of the sensorys I dropped, I find it useless with its ability to regain stanima faster. And when it comes to upgrades, sure it does make skulks move at amazing speeds and Fades more effective, but I find a fade much more effective when he is cloaked and jumps a few marines. Fades work fine without movement, they are still extremely effective if the user has a certain level of skill.
I may have a few odd sentences and typos, I am in a tad of a hurry.
<!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Aug 14 2003, 07:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Aug 14 2003, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Lt.Warhound+Aug 14 2003, 06:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Warhound @ Aug 14 2003, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If I could have just one trait, it would be scent of fear. Nothing else is as good.
I can hear it now, SoF won't help when you know where they are, in their base! Who cares? If we have them bottled in their base, its ggkthxbye time. Celerity, ooohh, I can now run in faster and die. Moderately useful. Better to use leap if you want to xeno, better to use blink, _much faster. Cel is nice as a onos, but onos is just _one of 5 classes. And odds are, if we have them pinned, we have all three hives, and all chambers.
SC as first chamber rocks, period. SoF or cloak makes for deadly effective ambushes. Silence? Erh, ya, works on marines that don't cover their 6. BFD. A moment of care, and your silent rush eats lmg. Ya, works great on solo marines, but hell, anything kills a lone rambo. A decent group of marines will have guns in all directions. Cloaked and sitting in their path, I get a kill before they even begin to pull a trigger, plenty of time to attack or flee, depending.
Silence is nice for partially negating ambushes, where a marine is sitting in a shadow, listening. But, with SoF, I know he's there before he gets a shot at me, negating the ambush completely.
SC first _slows down the marines dramatically. Either they are shooting everywhere trying to 'recon by fire', or they are spending resources they don't have to make obseravatories. Which can't scan everywhere, and the commander must divert his limited attention to do so.
A slowed marine team loses. Pin them down while you get the second hive up, and you have a serious advantage.
Adrenaline is about the only movement trait worth getting early, when bilebombing. As a lerk, I prefer SoF or regen over adrenaline. Knowing _exactly where and when to spore means the marines die without ever getting a shot at me. As they approach a corne, poof, spores in their face and I'm back around the next corner. They retreat, guess what? I see that too.
SC first _dramatically helps the gorge, no other chamber does as much to keep a gorge or hive alive. Sure, if the MC is nearby and the team knows where it is and they aren't already closer to the hive, and if they will actually go help the hive under attack, only if all those things are true, then the MC will help save the hive. Ya know, most of the time on pubs, none of those will be true. Most pubs, most games, MC won't help the hive. SC cloaking the OCs and the gorge, and the respawning skulks, that will help.
Repeatedly, the ability to cloak has saved me, as a gorge. I sure can't count on the damn skulks to protect me, just doesn't happen. I also can't count the number of times I've seen marines run in, around the RT and back out, without stopping, simply due to the nearby SC.
DC second is great. Regen for the lerks, carapace for the skulks and fades (who have metabolize at this point) and redemption to allow the onos to really tork the marines off.
When its MC first, its a race to get the second hive up before the marines take over. That's the norm on the various pubs, so I've seen. At that point, DC needs to be second, MC SC DC tends to be a problem.
Oh, and motion tracking? Cloak negates MT. Stop moving, wait a moment, the giveaway blue circle goes away. Observatories negate cloak, but its easier to cover the critical parts of the map with SCs than Obs.
SC DC MC works, its solid, and it doesn't depend on your team to have leet ubor mad skillz. Decent skills, ya, if you can't bite a marine no chamber will help you there. Mostly, people pushing MC first are trying to get their kill stats up, saving for onos, while yelling for more chambers and another hive to be built. I've yet to see a gorge (not a temp-gorge, a real gorge, one that stays gorge for most of the game) want MC first. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree with that.
Silence is absolutely THE best upgrade in the game, if the marines want a chance against you, then they will need to get motion tracking, in which case you still have two other useful upgrades that absolutely kick ****.
MC>SC <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ye gods, you quote my entire post, and simply say 'I disagree with that', erh, with what, everything I posted?
Then you follow up with a simple 'Silence is absolutely THE best upgrade' but you offer NOTHING to back up your statement?
My favorite build order now is MC, DC, SC, although it used to be SC, MC, DC. It takes some time for people to learn to use the fade and lerk to its fullest potential as these require MC and DC for regen and adren, which aren't popular abilities either, too many people are obsessed with going onos.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any half decent com scans an area before sending his precious squad of walking alien resources in there. Forward observatories are beind built all the time now (at least on the australian servers); what use is cloaking if you can't cloak? If the marine see you they know that you're weak from no mcs or dcs, and that makes you easier to kill.
SOF is nice, but knowing that 6 marines are coming for you doesn't really help you when you lack the speed or endurance to reach them and kill them. It's good for killing rambos, but marine squads with forward observatories and frequent scans are very tough to ambush, which is what you'll have to do lacking silence, celerity, carapace or regen. Fact is that of all the chambers, SC is probably the easiest to counter. MCs need MT to negate silence (there's no counter to celerity or adren), DCs need weapon upgrades (25 arms lab, 30 lvl 1, 40 lvl 2). Now personally I'd rather force the marines to spend their precious early res on expensive upgrades like that rather than free scans and 20 res forwards obs.
Plus celerity skulks are much more harder to hit,essentially putting the Aliens on the offensive and forces the marines to go on the defensive, unless of course they all are gods at aiming,in which case you could prolly lose
SoF is only good for lerks spore and fades acid rocket, and that risk-taking gorge that is willing to set up an SC right outside MStart
Im always gorge most of the game until i turn Onos. Then i get someone going Gorge drop a MC, turn back to skulk and wait for Onos. Im like ****, if your gonna drop a chamber you want you better be playing Gorge then. Cause when i drop SCs i drop them ALL over the map.
On NS_Bast ive found 4 genius SC placing spots. Even found this spot where i can drop 1 SC and 5 DCs to heal the hive where i can guarentee Rines will never find unless they already know about it. Making the hive invincible. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And every double res has a elite SC hiding spot where rines will never find them unless they get incrediably lucky... giving me the ability to bilebomb the **** out of them.
Exactly, I have nothing against sensory first, sensory is good, but sensory first every fricken time I play aliens is too much. I don't want to do the same thing over and over again, that is boring. I was under impression that the 2.0 chambers are more balanced and every chamber is more or less viable. It is sad if the chamber order becomes set to stone like in 1.04.
I think what we're seeing is a difference of playing style. I think all chambers are pretty much viable, the reason the squabbling is taking place, is because some have preferred means of playing.
Those who choose sensory play a lil more stealthily or like the built-in wallhack that is SoF.
Those who go movement prefer something to augment their in-your-face combat style.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I may have a few odd sentences and typos, I am in a tad of a hurry.
I can hear it now, SoF won't help when you know where they are, in their base! Who cares? If we have them bottled in their base, its ggkthxbye time. Celerity, ooohh, I can now run in faster and die. Moderately useful. Better to use leap if you want to xeno, better to use blink, _much faster. Cel is nice as a onos, but onos is just _one of 5 classes. And odds are, if we have them pinned, we have all three hives, and all chambers.
SC as first chamber rocks, period. SoF or cloak makes for deadly effective ambushes. Silence? Erh, ya, works on marines that don't cover their 6. BFD. A moment of care, and your silent rush eats lmg. Ya, works great on solo marines, but hell, anything kills a lone rambo. A decent group of marines will have guns in all directions. Cloaked and sitting in their path, I get a kill before they even begin to pull a trigger, plenty of time to attack or flee, depending.
Silence is nice for partially negating ambushes, where a marine is sitting in a shadow, listening. But, with SoF, I know he's there before he gets a shot at me, negating the ambush completely.
SC first _slows down the marines dramatically. Either they are shooting everywhere trying to 'recon by fire', or they are spending resources they don't have to make obseravatories. Which can't scan everywhere, and the commander must divert his limited attention to do so.
A slowed marine team loses. Pin them down while you get the second hive up, and you have a serious advantage.
Adrenaline is about the only movement trait worth getting early, when bilebombing. As a lerk, I prefer SoF or regen over adrenaline. Knowing _exactly where and when to spore means the marines die without ever getting a shot at me. As they approach a corne, poof, spores in their face and I'm back around the next corner. They retreat, guess what? I see that too.
SC first _dramatically helps the gorge, no other chamber does as much to keep a gorge or hive alive. Sure, if the MC is nearby and the team knows where it is and they aren't already closer to the hive, and if they will actually go help the hive under attack, only if all those things are true, then the MC will help save the hive. Ya know, most of the time on pubs, none of those will be true. Most pubs, most games, MC won't help the hive. SC cloaking the OCs and the gorge, and the respawning skulks, that will help.
Repeatedly, the ability to cloak has saved me, as a gorge. I sure can't count on the damn skulks to protect me, just doesn't happen. I also can't count the number of times I've seen marines run in, around the RT and back out, without stopping, simply due to the nearby SC.
DC second is great. Regen for the lerks, carapace for the skulks and fades (who have metabolize at this point) and redemption to allow the onos to really tork the marines off.
When its MC first, its a race to get the second hive up before the marines take over. That's the norm on the various pubs, so I've seen. At that point, DC needs to be second, MC SC DC tends to be a problem.
Oh, and motion tracking? Cloak negates MT. Stop moving, wait a moment, the giveaway blue circle goes away. Observatories negate cloak, but its easier to cover the critical parts of the map with SCs than Obs.
SC DC MC works, its solid, and it doesn't depend on your team to have leet ubor mad skillz. Decent skills, ya, if you can't bite a marine no chamber will help you there. Mostly, people pushing MC first are trying to get their kill stats up, saving for onos, while yelling for more chambers and another hive to be built. I've yet to see a gorge (not a temp-gorge, a real gorge, one that stays gorge for most of the game) want MC first. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with that.
Silence is absolutely THE best upgrade in the game, if the marines want a chance against you, then they will need to get motion tracking, in which case you still have two other useful upgrades that absolutely kick ****.
MC>SC <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye gods, you quote my entire post, and simply say 'I disagree with that', erh, with what, everything I posted?
Then you follow up with a simple 'Silence is absolutely THE best upgrade' but you offer NOTHING to back up your statement?