if they touch bile bomb they need to make seige not go though the walls... its sick how marines can just turret farm in the room next to a hive and take it down with ping.
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Aug 24 2003, 12:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Aug 24 2003, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but obviously hits didn't register or something (happens more often that you'd think) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> pfft windy, he prolly just had regen or cara or summat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for bile-bombing, yes it is unbalanced, 3 gorges suddenly rushing a phase can take it down before rines get a chance to respond, and the ability to camp in vents with regen/adrenn and take out places means that MANY MANY places are secured because of bile.
It means that I laugh if rines try to build at the origin dbl res, the veil dbl res, tanith dbl res, bast rine start (bile FORCES a relocate, even if the vent wasn't broken (anyone can open/close with +use, whether it's welded or not) then it still has a slit which just protects gorges), just anywhere with a vent becomes unusable because of a 2 hive weapon. (a 3 hive weapon it would be fine, 3 hives aren't guarenteed, but 2 hives are guarenteed).
It's not practical for the marines to get GL or JP by the time gorges have bile bomb. The armory upgrade sets you back 30 res and takes an eternity to finish, not to mention it is easily destroyed( having spent 30 res on the armory means one less weapons or armour upgrade or 3 less turrets). Jetpacks are even more difficult to get, requiring an advanced armory for the prototype lab as well as research and finally its own cost to issue.
Building "intelligently" isn't always practical either, as there are many places where you cannot do this while protecting the res nodes. Building "intelligently" can also mean weakness in other areas, and a smart gorge will find a way to bile bomb you anyways.
Having said that, I don't really have a problem with bile bomb itself. It's the inability to seal off the vents where gorges can bomb from that I have a problem with. It seems like the only places where welding would be particularly useful are unweldable.
<!--QuoteBegin--Clan Hunter+Aug 21 2003, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Clan Hunter @ Aug 21 2003, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually I think they're upping its effectiveness to counter act the massive turret farm tactic.
As for gorges in the vents, get a GL. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That doesn't seem like the best way to counter Turret Farming commanders. Upping the price for turrets (not tfs; because of electify) would seem better for countering turret farms.
Spazmatic - Most times the only way to counter the gorge (in the vent) is to get a grenade launcher, and even then the soldier using it will get killed because he or she is too busy staring at a vent to notice the skulk biting it's leg. As for teams working together, stacking a top one another, try that on a public server; nearly impossible. It's hard enough to find good 2.0 comms, even harder to find good TEAM players, and thats not even taking into account players that come and go.
For a clan match, a gorge in vent is no problem, but for a public battle it can be hell; for team moral and a commanders sanity in the chair.
@hojo: 30 res doesn´t set you back much. But comms are too busy to drop a gazillion of turrets in every spot wasting hundreds of res on a bile bombing gorge. And why do you take the hardest to defend res nodes on the map? Double res nodes are a great advantage but they are a risky gamble since the aliens will try to prevent you from keeping them at all costs. Only take them if you can hold them.
@noobie_mech: Sure the gl marine can be killed but so can the gorge. And a gl can be picked up by a teammate, a dead gorge not. If your afraid to risk your butt don´t play NS play Barbies dress up world.
What do you want? Having invincible turret farms all over the map? How fair would that be? You have to keep some men at important locations just like the aliens protect their RT. And with phases you can reach them faster than any alien could. Turrets are not meant to be place and forget weapons. They need support to hold an area and thats a good thing or the aliens would have no chance against them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not practical for the marines to get GL or JP by the time gorges have bile bomb. The armory upgrade sets you back 30 res and takes an eternity to finish, not to mention it is easily destroyed( having spent 30 res on the armory means one less weapons or armour upgrade or 3 less turrets). Jetpacks are even more difficult to get, requiring an advanced armory for the prototype lab as well as research and finally its own cost to issue. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FINALLY! Someone else who understands <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Consider for a moment too that good coms arn't spamming turrets left right and center, they'e trying to tech and keep their marines alive. 35 res for the armoury upgrades plus a huuuuuuuge upgrade time is quite a big investment early in the game. Why force the marines into a certain playing style that requires you to tech to gls right off the bat. I can tell you from first hand experiance that this cripples a marine side early in the game because you don't have the res to quickly expand as well, which is an absolute must. And you can easily get a 2nd hive up by the 3 minute mark which means that despite your best efforts the aliens are still going to have 2 hives before GLs.
I think the problem is map design rather than bile bomb itself (although gorges are tough little critters). There are a few positions were a gorge can shoot but not be shot at without gls/jetpacks. In my opinion so such places should exist: a marine outpost should go down to a co-ordinated alien assault, not the actions of one 10 res alien in a vent.
@Ryo-Ohki: Why force the marines to tech to HA? Why force the aliens to get a 2. hive? Why force them to build upgrade chambers? Why force the marines to get some RT´s? Its the way of the game. The side that techs first wins. Adv. armory is a prerequite for later on so begin to upgrade it early.
PS: I feel the urge to give you a big squeeezing hug because of your name.
<!--QuoteBegin--briDge+Aug 21 2003, 11:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briDge @ Aug 21 2003, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 20 res to take out a 10 res building destroying gorge when marines already have a distinct resource disadvantage? how is that fair? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hi, if a gorge has bilebomb, that means the aliens have 2 hives.. thats a 35 res investment for the ability, plus 10 res for the unit.
Sounds about equal to seige to me. Seige is like 30 + 15? or something like that anyway...? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->@Ryo-Ohki: Why force the marines to tech to HA? Why force the aliens to get a 2. hive? Why force them to build upgrade chambers? Why force the marines to get some RT´s? Its the way of the game. The side that techs first wins. Adv. armory is a prerequite for later on so begin to upgrade it early. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just think that bile bomb shows up too early. That of course is linked to low hive cost which is being adressed in 2.1a. So most of my concerns re: bile bomb are basically going to be answered anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PS: I feel the urge to give you a big squeeezing hug because of your name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who say marines have an advantage over the aliens because they can pick their weapons up while aliens have to spend res to evolve again : How many times have you seen people pick up these weapons,run off,and lose them in record time?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just think that bile bomb shows up too early. That of course is linked to low hive cost which is being adressed in 2.1a. So most of my concerns re: bile bomb are basically going to be answered anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes aliens tech too fast. But bile will be fine once this issue is sorted out.
Has anyone heard of welders here? 2 of us managed to keep all our turrets from being destroyed just by continously welding while 2 gorges bile bombed. The turrets were taking damage slightly quicker than we could weld, but we were bought time whenever someone went to chase the gorges down.
Welding is difficult to do midgame when you have two persistent lerks sporing your welders (presumably lights) while you're waiting for HA. Case-in-point, reactor room on ns_tanith (always a favorite!).
Half these problems are solved by not taking RTs you cant hold.
If you need GL to cover a certain RT, then don't take that RT until you have a GL.
On most maps there are several secure RTs. The most strategic ones are of course more open to a gorge vent assault, and that keeps balance. Otherwise the game would be over once someone rushes an invincible double res.
Yeah. I actually tend to avoid reactor room when I'm comm unless I know I can keep the aliens distracted elsewhere for a significant length of time. I've seen many comms who still stubbornly stick to 1.04 tactics, though.
Actually, I haven't seen relocation to be of much great use in 2.0. Those coveted double-res such as holo, reactor room, nanogrid, and atmospheric (among others) are death traps against a good, coordinated Alien team. I find the majority of marine starts to be well-designed, from a defendable perspective (given a competent marine team that can shoot decently, follows orders, and knows the map well enough to get around), that I really don't see the purpose of relocating anymore.
When 2.0 first came out, I tried relocating to cargo on ns_nothing a few times, but by the time we got a base established, the marines had built sens+ocs in gen and miasma, in essence, pinning us down long enough to get their second hive up and wear us away. Granted, people on the server I play on tend to be lousy shots, so I get frustrated as all heck when one unupgraded skulk tears through 3 marines who seem to have anti-aimbot installed.
Edit: The thing about GLs is this; many of the new and revised maps are absolutely peppered with vents, and in the current state of the game, it's extraordinarily difficult to kill a very good lerk with just lmgs. I tend to upgrade armory as soon as I can spare the res in order to discourage lerks, as unseasoned players tend to panic when being pinged by spores. Most players aren't smart enough to realize that, say, if you boost a marine on the other side of reactor room on tanith (on the upper-level where the ladders are), you can shoot a gorge whose raining bile bomb love down on your rts/tf. The easiest games I've ever commed had marines who took the initiative to boost teammates on their own into vents to fight off lerks and gorges, or at least give the marine on top a proper shooting angle into the vent.
there has been a few replys on this indicating that the marines are fighting an alien team where they are using no teamwork or the players are just really crap. ok so if the alien team is working as a team and arnt crap what do u do then.
maybe make an alien be like a bile bomb its self. like make gorge 3rd weapon like xeno but a bile bomb effect although it would have to be more powerful maybe bigger splash to have it so alien spend 10 res. maybe it be better to have skulk do it, maybe get rid of parasite put leap there then have 3rd slot for bilebomb which is like above. a variation of xeno but for buildings. although there be no harm in giving skulk a 5th weapon would there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, the problem with Reactor Room and a lot of the other boost locations is that you have to have two guys, minimum, dedicated to running back there and guarding a vent. The gorge sees two marines boosting, the gorge hightails it to the middle of the S-curve in the vent where it can't be hit except for GLs and waits for them to leave. Even then, if the Gorge has regen, the Gorge pops out, bile bombs once, and pops back in. No marine weapon will kill a gorge at that range before he has time to duck back in. That means that, until marines get a GL, reactor room is essentially a deathtrap.
Does that mean Bile Bomb is overpowered? No, it means the marines are being stupid.
If you build correctly in MS in bast, gorges won't be able to bile bomb your base from the vent. Lerks will have a little trouble as well as long as marines aren't standing around in areas visible from the vent tapping their fingers together and twiddling their thumbs.
The solution for marines is better build locations, having the restraint not to keep trying to build in a location that is unholdable (RR is where 3/4 of the marine games are lost on Tanith, and there are many other such locations), and teching to GLs or JPs before you build in a tricky spot (or being willing to keep marines there if it's that important).
Actually, two of the ones mentioned, nano in veil and cargo in origin, are two of the most easily held doubles, IMO.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It takes like 30 bilebombs to kill ONE marine res node.
The strengths of buildings is really FUBAR. Phase gates should be fragile and weak, but they're stronger then an armory... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, yeah ok. Bile bomb tears through marine bases currently and you want it boosted?! Phases will drop pretty quick to a bile bomb assault: they only take around 10 or so. An adren gorge can do that in less than 30 seconds. It does not take 30 bile bombs to kill a marine res node: in fact just about all marine structures will die very quickly in the face of a bile bomb attack.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Aug 24 2003, 10:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Aug 24 2003, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It takes like 30 bilebombs to kill ONE marine res node.
The strengths of buildings is really FUBAR. Phase gates should be fragile and weak, but they're stronger then an armory... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, yeah ok. Bile bomb tears through marine bases currently and you want it boosted?! Phases will drop pretty quick to a bile bomb assault: they only take around 10 or so. An adren gorge can do that in less than 30 seconds. It does not take 30 bile bombs to kill a marine res node: in fact just about all marine structures will die very quickly in the face of a bile bomb attack. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, god damn, you people read? I said that the marine structure strengths are kinda screwed up. Why is the PHASE GATE, the ability for marines to INSTANTLY move across a map and defend an outpost, a priority target for the aliens, STRONGER THEN THE ARMORY? Phase gates should be fragile and weak, because they bring so much power to the marine team. It's things like that...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, god damn, you people read? I said that the marine structure strengths are kinda screwed up. Why is the PHASE GATE, the ability for marines to INSTANTLY move across a map and defend an outpost, a priority target for the aliens, STRONGER THEN THE ARMORY? Phase gates should be fragile and weak, because they bring so much power to the marine team. It's things like that... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, so because the hive gives the aliens such great abilities and additional power it should be really weak and fragile? So what if it is stronger than the armoury? The fact is that all marine buildings except CCs die very quickly in the face of a bile bomb assault. Phase gates don't exactly take bile bomb assaults on the chest and say "Ah, I'm fine"; they go down faster than drunk college girls <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Phase gates ARE fragile and weak, so are armouries. What is your point?
Monkeybonk, do you have any concept of gameplay ? Why should a 10 res gorge at hive 2 be able to demolish all chances of any marine response in 5 seconds ?
NS_Veil's double node nanogrid is hard to hold for both teams. Marines can siege it from a ton of locations, even their base in the pod rooms. aliens can bile bomb it from the vents
i personally think that a skulk is more effective in taking out a turret farm if it can get to the turret factory, if u have regen and the tf isnt electrified u can easily take it out. (yes even if there are a ton of turrets firing at u)
Again, ALL DOUBLE RES NODES are EASILY reclaimed by a persistant team. Either marines or kharaa.
Second, 8 times out of 10, marines will RUSH the double res. Aliens need only wait in ambush.
If you wish to NOT LOSE, never cap a res you cannot hold, never build a base you cannot hold. Relocation can be done but it involves picking clever spots, not wide open double res. Hives are sometimes good options but be SURE to pick a hive near base. Otherwise you end up running across the entire map, something you can never do fast enough.
Seriously though... If a gorge can take down one of your outposts singlehanded... you have one of two things going wrong. 1. Your marines are horribly unorganized. 2. The Comm is a complete idiot.
A single gorge is easy to take down with 1 rine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, there've been several times when I've been spit to death, even when firing point blank at the gorge with an HMG.
Carapaced, they're some nasty suckers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Clan Hunter+Aug 21 2003, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Clan Hunter @ Aug 21 2003, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually I think they're upping its effectiveness to counter act the massive turret farm tactic.
As for gorges in the vents, get a GL. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes exactly .Gorges are easy to kill so whats the problem?
Comments
pfft windy, he prolly just had regen or cara or summat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for bile-bombing, yes it is unbalanced, 3 gorges suddenly rushing a phase can take it down before rines get a chance to respond, and the ability to camp in vents with regen/adrenn and take out places means that MANY MANY places are secured because of bile.
It means that I laugh if rines try to build at the origin dbl res, the veil dbl res, tanith dbl res, bast rine start (bile FORCES a relocate, even if the vent wasn't broken (anyone can open/close with +use, whether it's welded or not) then it still has a slit which just protects gorges), just anywhere with a vent becomes unusable because of a 2 hive weapon. (a 3 hive weapon it would be fine, 3 hives aren't guarenteed, but 2 hives are guarenteed).
Building "intelligently" isn't always practical either, as there are many places where you cannot do this while protecting the res nodes. Building "intelligently" can also mean weakness in other areas, and a smart gorge will find a way to bile bomb you anyways.
Having said that, I don't really have a problem with bile bomb itself. It's the inability to seal off the vents where gorges can bomb from that I have a problem with. It seems like the only places where welding would be particularly useful are unweldable.
As for gorges in the vents, get a GL. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't seem like the best way to counter Turret Farming commanders. Upping the price for turrets (not tfs; because of electify) would seem better for countering turret farms.
Spazmatic - Most times the only way to counter the gorge (in the vent) is to get a grenade launcher, and even then the soldier using it will get killed because he or she is too busy staring at a vent to notice the skulk biting it's leg. As for teams working together, stacking a top one another, try that on a public server; nearly impossible. It's hard enough to find good 2.0 comms, even harder to find good TEAM players, and thats not even taking into account players that come and go.
For a clan match, a gorge in vent is no problem, but for a public battle it can be hell; for team moral and a commanders sanity in the chair.
@noobie_mech: Sure the gl marine can be killed but so can the gorge. And a gl can be picked up by a teammate, a dead gorge not. If your afraid to risk your butt don´t play NS play Barbies dress up world.
What do you want? Having invincible turret farms all over the map? How fair would that be? You have to keep some men at important locations just like the aliens protect their RT. And with phases you can reach them faster than any alien could. Turrets are not meant to be place and forget weapons. They need support to hold an area and thats a good thing or the aliens would have no chance against them.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FINALLY! Someone else who understands <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Consider for a moment too that good coms arn't spamming turrets left right and center, they'e trying to tech and keep their marines alive. 35 res for the armoury upgrades plus a huuuuuuuge upgrade time is quite a big investment early in the game. Why force the marines into a certain playing style that requires you to tech to gls right off the bat. I can tell you from first hand experiance that this cripples a marine side early in the game because you don't have the res to quickly expand as well, which is an absolute must. And you can easily get a 2nd hive up by the 3 minute mark which means that despite your best efforts the aliens are still going to have 2 hives before GLs.
I think the problem is map design rather than bile bomb itself (although gorges are tough little critters). There are a few positions were a gorge can shoot but not be shot at without gls/jetpacks. In my opinion so such places should exist: a marine outpost should go down to a co-ordinated alien assault, not the actions of one 10 res alien in a vent.
PS: I feel the urge to give you a big squeeezing hug because of your name.
Hi, if a gorge has bilebomb, that means the aliens have 2 hives.. thats a 35 res investment for the ability, plus 10 res for the unit.
Sounds about equal to seige to me. Seige is like 30 + 15? or something like that anyway...? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just think that bile bomb shows up too early. That of course is linked to low hive cost which is being adressed in 2.1a. So most of my concerns re: bile bomb are basically going to be answered anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PS: I feel the urge to give you a big squeeezing hug because of your name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/me meaows cutely and nuzzles Jaml <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just think that bile bomb shows up too early. That of course is linked to low hive cost which is being adressed in 2.1a. So most of my concerns re: bile bomb are basically going to be answered anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes aliens tech too fast. But bile will be fine once this issue is sorted out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
/me meaows cutely and nuzzles Jaml <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/me melts away <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 of us managed to keep all our turrets from being destroyed just by continously welding while 2 gorges bile bombed. The turrets were taking damage slightly quicker than we could weld, but we were bought time whenever someone went to chase the gorges down.
If you need GL to cover a certain RT, then don't take that RT until you have a GL.
On most maps there are several secure RTs. The most strategic ones are of course more open to a gorge vent assault, and that keeps balance. Otherwise the game would be over once someone rushes an invincible double res.
Actually, I haven't seen relocation to be of much great use in 2.0. Those coveted double-res such as holo, reactor room, nanogrid, and atmospheric (among others) are death traps against a good, coordinated Alien team. I find the majority of marine starts to be well-designed, from a defendable perspective (given a competent marine team that can shoot decently, follows orders, and knows the map well enough to get around), that I really don't see the purpose of relocating anymore.
When 2.0 first came out, I tried relocating to cargo on ns_nothing a few times, but by the time we got a base established, the marines had built sens+ocs in gen and miasma, in essence, pinning us down long enough to get their second hive up and wear us away. Granted, people on the server I play on tend to be lousy shots, so I get frustrated as all heck when one unupgraded skulk tears through 3 marines who seem to have anti-aimbot installed.
Edit: The thing about GLs is this; many of the new and revised maps are absolutely peppered with vents, and in the current state of the game, it's extraordinarily difficult to kill a very good lerk with just lmgs. I tend to upgrade armory as soon as I can spare the res in order to discourage lerks, as unseasoned players tend to panic when being pinged by spores. Most players aren't smart enough to realize that, say, if you boost a marine on the other side of reactor room on tanith (on the upper-level where the ladders are), you can shoot a gorge whose raining bile bomb love down on your rts/tf. The easiest games I've ever commed had marines who took the initiative to boost teammates on their own into vents to fight off lerks and gorges, or at least give the marine on top a proper shooting angle into the vent.
maybe make an alien be like a bile bomb its self. like make gorge 3rd weapon like xeno but a bile bomb effect although it would have to be more powerful maybe bigger splash to have it so alien spend 10 res. maybe it be better to have skulk do it, maybe get rid of parasite put leap there then have 3rd slot for bilebomb which is like above. a variation of xeno but for buildings. although there be no harm in giving skulk a 5th weapon would there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Does that mean Bile Bomb is overpowered? No, it means the marines are being stupid.
If you build correctly in MS in bast, gorges won't be able to bile bomb your base from the vent. Lerks will have a little trouble as well as long as marines aren't standing around in areas visible from the vent tapping their fingers together and twiddling their thumbs.
The solution for marines is better build locations, having the restraint not to keep trying to build in a location that is unholdable (RR is where 3/4 of the marine games are lost on Tanith, and there are many other such locations), and teching to GLs or JPs before you build in a tricky spot (or being willing to keep marines there if it's that important).
Actually, two of the ones mentioned, nano in veil and cargo in origin, are two of the most easily held doubles, IMO.
The strengths of buildings is really FUBAR. Phase gates should be fragile and weak, but they're stronger then an armory...
The strengths of buildings is really FUBAR. Phase gates should be fragile and weak, but they're stronger then an armory... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, yeah ok. Bile bomb tears through marine bases currently and you want it boosted?! Phases will drop pretty quick to a bile bomb assault: they only take around 10 or so. An adren gorge can do that in less than 30 seconds. It does not take 30 bile bombs to kill a marine res node: in fact just about all marine structures will die very quickly in the face of a bile bomb attack.
The strengths of buildings is really FUBAR. Phase gates should be fragile and weak, but they're stronger then an armory... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, yeah ok. Bile bomb tears through marine bases currently and you want it boosted?! Phases will drop pretty quick to a bile bomb assault: they only take around 10 or so. An adren gorge can do that in less than 30 seconds. It does not take 30 bile bombs to kill a marine res node: in fact just about all marine structures will die very quickly in the face of a bile bomb attack. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, god damn, you people read? I said that the marine structure strengths are kinda screwed up. Why is the PHASE GATE, the ability for marines to INSTANTLY move across a map and defend an outpost, a priority target for the aliens, STRONGER THEN THE ARMORY? Phase gates should be fragile and weak, because they bring so much power to the marine team. It's things like that...
Oh, so because the hive gives the aliens such great abilities and additional power it should be really weak and fragile? So what if it is stronger than the armoury? The fact is that all marine buildings except CCs die very quickly in the face of a bile bomb assault. Phase gates don't exactly take bile bomb assaults on the chest and say "Ah, I'm fine"; they go down faster than drunk college girls <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Phase gates ARE fragile and weak, so are armouries. What is your point?
Second, 8 times out of 10, marines will RUSH the double res. Aliens need only wait in ambush.
If you wish to NOT LOSE, never cap a res you cannot hold, never build a base you cannot hold. Relocation can be done but it involves picking clever spots, not wide open double res. Hives are sometimes good options but be SURE to pick a hive near base. Otherwise you end up running across the entire map, something you can never do fast enough.
HHHAHHAHHAHHAAHHA.
Seriously though... If a gorge can take down one of your outposts singlehanded... you have one of two things going wrong.
1. Your marines are horribly unorganized.
2. The Comm is a complete idiot.
A single gorge is easy to take down with 1 rine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, there've been several times when I've been spit to death, even when firing point blank at the gorge with an HMG.
Carapaced, they're some nasty suckers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
-Back from vacation.. WHEW!
As for gorges in the vents, get a GL. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes exactly .Gorges are easy to kill so whats the problem?
Gassy lerks are way more problematic for marines.