<!--QuoteBegin--Witzner+Aug 21 2003, 10:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Witzner @ Aug 21 2003, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--briDge+Aug 21 2003, 10:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briDge @ Aug 21 2003, 10:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its basically the alien equivalent of siege. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this thread was answered in the original post.
Bile bombs hurt. The fat little guy that shoots them is easily killed.
Sieges hurt, and they shoot through walls. They are usually surrounded by turret farms.
Onos are huge, gigantic, terrifying beasts with massive amounts of health, armor, and strength.
A group of 5 marines working together with shotguns puts up a veritable wall of destruction that can take out an Onos in two shots.
That's the beauty of NS. Flayra and team achieved a semblance of balance, and a world of fun, with <b>dissimilar</b> races/opponents. Of course a marine hates bile bombs. Skulks hate shotguns.
I don't think bile bomb should be nerfed. But I'm just a guy, you know? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> give the man a cookie, he's a genius. You hit it right on the freaking head here, I hate sieges, but it's part of the game and it has counters. Others hate bile bombs, but they're part of the game and there ARE counters. You notice a hive is going up, you should have the armory upgrading. Technically, upgraded armory should be one of the first things you do as a comm.
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Aug 24 2003, 08:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Aug 24 2003, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys get killed in ridiculous ways by gorges too? Good, I'm not alone. Something is freaking wrong there. View sig. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There are others? Thank God. I've been afraid to admit it up till now.
Gorges shouldn't be able to take on a marine solo.....it's just silly...a builder unit can take out an all-round combat unit by itself? Silly, just silly. Granted, webs are useful, but that's after 3 hives, and if marines have any brains they're not going to let aliens get three hives.
yeah i too am quite amazed at the new gorge, it's quite a combatant with heal spray and celerity/carapace.... Took out like 20 marines in one match with that without ever dying. In 1.04 it was quite a humiliation to be killed by "teh weak fatteh", but now gorge is strong :/
Note that in previous builds, bile bomb didn't arc. Thusly, gorges could stand from outside turret distance and snipe bases to death. Either close vents, have marines block bilebombs with their bodes (seriously), or invest in a GL. The most impotant thing is you react to the gorge, and do somthing about it.
Again with that gorge nonsense. A gorge can only own if you are heavily outteched. If you have lvl3 guns and armor gorges arent a threat. If you have to fight them with lvl0 thech you have lost the game anyway. Why is everyone demanding that he can own teched alien lifeforms with nothing more than a basic marine. Get a hmg and dispose of those evil carpace/celerity gorges of doom. Geez <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
The main problem, as always is the players. Stop setting up bases in places that were safe for NS 1.04. Chances are they aren't anymore. (that rhymed.. kinda) Start thinking outside the box, preferably the box-ish range of that gorge in the vent. Don't always build your outposts right next to the resnode. One resnode is alot less important that the 150 res spent on the rest of the outpost. and stack! not teams, but on top of eachother, so you can get in the vent. People did it so much for fun in the 1.04 rr, why not put you ""elite"" marine towering abilities to use? People stack all the time in mods like sven coop to over come obstcals... why not in ns? Is the gorge taking out your base not an obstacal? (Note: I'm tired and on a crappy computer using a keyboard older than I am to write this, it may not make much sense, but then again you may just be an idiot)
heal spray range is a problem. i have killed marines that have been a few metres away.
really, these are 2.0 problems that could be sorted in 2.1 so it has kind of already been addressed. by the time aliens have 2nd hive marines should have their adv armoury.
It may take 30 bile bombs to kill a res node but the thing that makes bile bomb so powerful isn't just the damage it's the blast radius! It's HUGE, if a bomb lands in the middle of an outpost basicly all the structures will take that damage, that means with about 8-10 well placed bile bombs all the turrets are now dead ( and with adren you can put out ten bile bombs quite fast) acouple more rounds of bile bomb and the base is little more then a smoking ruin, you could probly put out 30 bile bombs ( which would likly remove a base completely) in under a minute with adren. of course it is balanced because that poor little gorge could get killed by marines before he could get off 3 bile bombs if they had a good line of sight to him.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kadreal<lost>+Aug 25 2003, 04:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kadreal<lost> @ Aug 25 2003, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It may take 30 bile bombs to kill a res node but the thing that makes bile bomb so powerful isn't just the damage it's the blast radius! It's HUGE, if a bomb lands in the middle of an outpost basicly all the structures will take that damage, that means with about 8-10 well placed bile bombs all the turrets are now dead ( and with adren you can put out ten bile bombs quite fast) acouple more rounds of bile bomb and the base is little more then a smoking ruin, you could probly put out 30 bile bombs ( which would likly remove a base completely) in under a minute with adren. of course it is balanced because that poor little gorge could get killed by marines before he could get off 3 bile bombs if they had a good line of sight to him. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I love the noise bilebomb makes. Reminds me of launching pumpkins with an air cannon.
I love being in a vent as gorge and just shooting them out like no bodies busniess cause i built 2 movements nearby, you can sure make them fly with all that extra power.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cypher---GorgeLover+Aug 21 2003, 11:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cypher---GorgeLover @ Aug 21 2003, 11:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lemme guess, you relocated to the double res node in NS veil and had gorges bile bomb your base to a lump of %$^#!!!
I warn all of you!!! dont relocate there...it's...so...terrible... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> u should be able to weld those damn vents, i HATE when lerks get up there, extremly annoying with regen and seem to not want to die and spore you to death while in nano =/
I know we're drifting off from the original topic.....
But as I see it the reason for the decrease in relocation is directly because most comms relocate to unholdable positions. Its not about capping res, its not about locking hives, its about taking and holding a strategic area.
How easy is it to hold marine start with only one RT? Endgame can last for half an hour! So from this we know that HOLDING a room is easy enough. So why can't you hold a vent ridden RR?
One half will go "its obviously a balance issue, bilebomb is too good" and the other half will say "why rush to a vent ridden room you cant hold?". Honestly, its all I see on the pub servers "get dbl res!!" when dbl res is a crippling handicap to either team.
we relocated to Power Silo and a skulk got up on top of the ledge and BB us for almost 30 mins, we rebuilt and he hit us again. All the time we spent trying to save PS could have been better spent on taking that second hive away from them.
In the end, Bad placement by the commander led us to loss.
Commanders never seem to take map layouts into consideration when building bases or relocating.
Sometimes you have to take it on the chin and learn the hard way!
I have that problem too (in fact its not only the bilebomb) since the last patch. I rarely won a game as marine (and im talking about 2-3 times). I often play as commander and b4 the patch i did well (we lost a game just in very rare occasions). But now most of the times those aliens just slaughter us (and i slaughter the marines as an alien aswell). I really dont think that i suck as a commander so it has to be something to do with the play style of my team. I see them running around alone very often and getting whiped out from 1-2 skulks when they are in a team of 3-4. AND they cant defend an outpost better then a turret can do (ok there are some skilled marines too who can kill 2 skulks at once with the base "equipment". And nearly 70% of the player i play with dont go to any waypoints. But im wondering aswell if i am too slow in getting better weapons/equipment or if i dont build the base/outposts good.
Any statements and suggestions (such as build orders) are very welcome.
Here is my suggestion for a good marine opening ... at least for those that say aliens always slaughter marines in pubs. Ip, Armory, Arms lab, 2 shotties, then armor 1(in the beta's > b you can get this immediately ... otherwise wait). Have 2 of your normal LMG marines stay and guard base ... if they don't want to tell them you'll give them shotties next for being good. Then, have the the rest of your marines with your 2 sg move out and destroy enemy RT's. One of the larger problems marines have in pubs is a lack of early agressiveness in destroying enemy RT's (if you do not kill an RT first thing its a bad bad sign) and a lack of meds/early upgrades to enable them to win the RFK battle. Once you have started destroying enemy RT's and have drawn their attention ... that's when you should break 1 guy off from the attack and build some RT's away from the battle. Remember, aliens can expand much faster than marines can ... you just have to make them pay for doing it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Aug 27 2003, 12:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Aug 27 2003, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> we relocated to Power Silo and a skulk got up on top of the ledge and BB us for almost 30 mins, we rebuilt and he hit us again. All the time we spent trying to save PS could have been better spent on taking that second hive away from them.
In the end, Bad placement by the commander led us to loss.
Commanders never seem to take map layouts into consideration when building bases or relocating.
Sometimes you have to take it on the chin and learn the hard way! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That works both ways. If the marines jetpack and build their base on top of silo, with a few grenade guys spamming stuff, good luck getting to them as an alien.
Comments
I think this thread was answered in the original post.
Bile bombs hurt. The fat little guy that shoots them is easily killed.
Sieges hurt, and they shoot through walls. They are usually surrounded by turret farms.
Onos are huge, gigantic, terrifying beasts with massive amounts of health, armor, and strength.
A group of 5 marines working together with shotguns puts up a veritable wall of destruction that can take out an Onos in two shots.
That's the beauty of NS. Flayra and team achieved a semblance of balance, and a world of fun, with <b>dissimilar</b> races/opponents. Of course a marine hates bile bombs. Skulks hate shotguns.
I don't think bile bomb should be nerfed. But I'm just a guy, you know? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
give the man a cookie, he's a genius. You hit it right on the freaking head here, I hate sieges, but it's part of the game and it has counters. Others hate bile bombs, but they're part of the game and there ARE counters. You notice a hive is going up, you should have the armory upgrading. Technically, upgraded armory should be one of the first things you do as a comm.
There are others? Thank God. I've been afraid to admit it up till now.
Took out like 20 marines in one match with that without ever dying.
In 1.04 it was quite a humiliation to be killed by "teh weak fatteh", but now gorge is strong :/
Stop setting up bases in places that were safe for NS 1.04. Chances are they aren't anymore. (that rhymed.. kinda)
Start thinking outside the box, preferably the box-ish range of that gorge in the vent. Don't always build your outposts right next to the resnode. One resnode is alot less important that the 150 res spent on the rest of the outpost.
and stack! not teams, but on top of eachother, so you can get in the vent. People did it so much for fun in the 1.04 rr, why not put you ""elite"" marine towering abilities to use?
People stack all the time in mods like sven coop to over come obstcals... why not in ns? Is the gorge taking out your base not an obstacal?
(Note: I'm tired and on a crappy computer using a keyboard older than I am to write this, it may not make much sense, but then again you may just be an idiot)
really, these are 2.0 problems that could be sorted in 2.1 so it has kind of already been addressed. by the time aliens have 2nd hive marines should have their adv armoury.
I love the noise bilebomb makes. Reminds me of launching pumpkins with an air cannon.
Now, really, if you let me do that, you deserve it.
Or chasing me into my own OC nest..... sigh....
I warn all of you!!! dont relocate there...it's...so...terrible... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
u should be able to weld those damn vents, i HATE when lerks get up there, extremly annoying with regen and seem to not want to die and spore you to death while in nano =/
But as I see it the reason for the decrease in relocation is directly because most comms relocate to unholdable positions. Its not about capping res, its not about locking hives, its about taking and holding a strategic area.
How easy is it to hold marine start with only one RT? Endgame can last for half an hour! So from this we know that HOLDING a room is easy enough. So why can't you hold a vent ridden RR?
One half will go "its obviously a balance issue, bilebomb is too good" and the other half will say "why rush to a vent ridden room you cant hold?". Honestly, its all I see on the pub servers "get dbl res!!" when dbl res is a crippling handicap to either team.
All the time we spent trying to save PS could have been better spent on taking that second hive away from them.
In the end, Bad placement by the commander led us to loss.
Commanders never seem to take map layouts into consideration when building bases or relocating.
Sometimes you have to take it on the chin and learn the hard way!
Any statements and suggestions (such as build orders) are very welcome.
All the time we spent trying to save PS could have been better spent on taking that second hive away from them.
In the end, Bad placement by the commander led us to loss.
Commanders never seem to take map layouts into consideration when building bases or relocating.
Sometimes you have to take it on the chin and learn the hard way! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That works both ways. If the marines jetpack and build their base on top of silo, with a few grenade guys spamming stuff, good luck getting to them as an alien.