Its not like marines complain for using Onos, so why should aliens complain about marines using one of their strengths over the aliens , i.e. control of territory without line of sight.
Just treat the sieges like turret farms,how hard can that be?? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Go for bilebombs,and pit your whole teams against the odds,and hope you prevail
And if you only got 1 hive,just get an Onos instead of bilebomb,and pray that he remains alive for a long time <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Most mature post I've seen in this whole thread.
You're very right, I should try this. My problem is that I see sieges for the 900th time in the round, and I tell my whole team. Who end up attacking the sieges to no avail? Only me. Maybe one other player. If we ALL attacked sieges like a GOOD team should, we would have half a chance.
I'm just one of those people who really hates the same thing over. And over. And over. And over. And over...
So if we had organization, like 8 DC's in the back, out of line of fire, lerks for umbra, some moves for adrenaline, and a few gorges to bilebomb (and perhaps a little bit of backup like a few skulks and a fade) we could take a TF and all that stuff out fairly easily. But this is not the case hardly ever.
I dont really like it when they use sieges, but I also really hate it when they HA train into the hive and take down my hive with Sgs in less than 20 seconds, so I think i'll let them blow servral hundred res on TF+ turrets+ siege+ HA to defend+ SGs to give to the HA.
Its not like marines complain for using Onos, so why should aliens complain about marines using one of their strengths over the aliens , i.e. control of territory without line of sight. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Onos costs 100 resources + upgrades + 2 more hives to be truely effective.
Two siege turrets cost far shy of that. Personally I think the ability to shoot through walls and blow the crap out of the enemy should come at a steep price :/
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're very right, I should try this. My problem is that I see sieges for the 900th time in the round, and I tell my whole team. Who end up attacking the sieges to no avail? Only me. Maybe one other player. If we ALL attacked sieges like a GOOD team should, we would have half a chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the problem really isn't the sieges but your team. Get a better team. Problem solved!
I was playing a game on mineshaft and there's very few large open rooms near hives where you can siege from. So most of the siege spots were in cramped quarters. One xeno would give me like 5 kills <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree that mineshaft is an seige friendly map. Some are , some are not. Some maps are onos friendly, some are not. Thats the nature of the game guys.
I wish so bad you few that dont like seige now where here for 1.0....lol. Seiges used to auto fire once built, and the had no LOS requirements and a much larger range. Marines are by nature a defensive style of gameplay. A lot of their strategies revolve around taking territory and then building it up...then moving on to the next chunck of the level. Its extremely unintelligent to take a risk when there is no reward for it. Any tactican could tell you that.
NS is about team versus team, it sounds like your team sucked, and theirs was just better. It does happen. You CAN NOT honestly expect to win every game. I have seen more seigeing attempts fail in 2.0 then become successful. HA/SG's seems to be the easiest and quickest way to kill the hive.
Seiges are expensive to build, very weak, and require constant pinging of the hive. Aliens speed and ability to cover the map and scout makes up for their lack of defensive support structure wise.
If you want to really stop seiges, try putting down an OC in each "known" seigeing room. The second you see it under attack respond with some support and you should be fine.
Look up the defintion of seige, and read what it says.... Pretty accurate to what you described. It takes 3 seiges to really take down a hive anyway.
I ask that you not get angry about a marine team playing a better game than your alien team... It insults intelligence that I know you have.
As much fun as it is sending a whole bunch of HA ‘rines into a hostile hive is, the chances of them getting spooked and not welding each other is too great, about 50/50, and reinforcements will come in ones and twos slowly. For the cost of the HA when i comm I want better odds there fore I put a pg tf and some turrets to defend it near by, drop a few sieges then send in the train. The odds of successes go way up. Because now buildings near by are blowing up (possibly the hive but not necessarily) killing aliens around and the moral of my men is way higher. But I do not think this is unbalanced compared to what the aliens can do, it is just different.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're very right, I should try this. My problem is that I see sieges for the 900th time in the round, and I tell my whole team. Who end up attacking the sieges to no avail? Only me. Maybe one other player. If we ALL attacked sieges like a GOOD team should, we would have half a chance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't dispute your claim.. I don't think I've ever played with you... but I'm always rushing a seige outpost....
"I have nothing against sieges, I use them as comm. I just hate it when people make sieges to siege every hive, and never attempt to kill it with anything else."
So it's ok to use a Siege so as long as it's used they way you like? Isn't that a bit selfish? Would it be ok with you if I sieged only the 1st and 2nd hive leaving the 3rd to be killed with guns? Jeez man.. hello.
I personally think its foolish to take a hive with anything besides siege. The nice thing about a siege base is that if you succeed, you already have a fortified hive. Darn handy that way.
i can't believe people complain about sieges!!! they are gods gift to the alien loss end game..
any one who has played ns2 for at least 2 - 3 days has experienced one of those fun games where marines are camped out in a room (usually a marine start point) that has no nice vents to bile bomb, and a shite lot of turrets, GL spam, etc etc etc. perfect example: ns_eclipse marine start...
there is not a lot aliens can do except keep pushing in and hoping to get lucky with some onos + umbra combo's or lots and lots of acid rockets (no gorge can bile bomb because u get shredded by any marine with a pistol guarding the left door...)
however, reverse the roles, when aliens are camped out into their last hive, and TA DA! marines get siege to end it.. i just wish there was some 3 hive way for aliens to really cut up marine out-posts, (and onos don't count cause GL > umbra)
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Aug 28 2003, 06:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Aug 28 2003, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well there has been loads of complaints about the onos, why not siege. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you need to look at it the other way around.
Why complain about the siege when there are so many complaints about the onos?
Makes just as little sense. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
i see wot me means in some cases tho, coz so often is the case where the sieges and TFs are buried deep behind a farm of turrets, with or without HA/HMGers backing it all up :/ just gets to the point where the aliens find its impossible to get thru.
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Aug 29 2003, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Aug 29 2003, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just think sieges are a tad cheap for how powerful they are. 15 res? That's a drop in the bucket. I mean, good god an HMG is 20. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Teflon raises an interesting point. In 2.0 I only drop HMGs when the cows come home. Otherwise, shotguns/GLs do the work just fine. And the random vanilla marine to keep a strong foothold in forward outposts.
I do believe they're trying to fix HMG so that it is actually worth that 20 res you have to plop down, so I'm just going to sit and wait it out. (Sieges for 15 is nothing, turrets for 10 is fair, hives for 35? eh? eh? Works out, too, but gives the aliens a hive within 4 minutes) ^^^This was not a complaint, merely an example.
Sieges, in 2.0 are about 2x the worth of one HMG at 3/4 the cost. The only disadvantage? immobile (losing them isn't too bad, losing an HMG is even more annoying)
<!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Aug 29 2003, 12:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Aug 29 2003, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Aug 29 2003, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Aug 29 2003, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just think sieges are a tad cheap for how powerful they are. 15 res? That's a drop in the bucket. I mean, good god an HMG is 20. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Teflon raises an interesting point. In 2.0 I only drop HMGs when the cows come home. Otherwise, shotguns/GLs do the work just fine. And the random vanilla marine to keep a strong foothold in forward outposts.
I do believe they're trying to fix HMG so that it is actually worth that 20 res you have to plop down, so I'm just going to sit and wait it out. (Sieges for 15 is nothing, turrets for 10 is fair, hives for 35? eh? eh? Works out, too, but gives the aliens a hive within 4 minutes) ^^^This was not a complaint, merely an example.
Sieges, in 2.0 are about 2x the worth of one HMG at 3/4 the cost. The only disadvantage? immobile (losing them isn't too bad, losing an HMG is even more annoying) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well hives will be 50ish in 2.01, won't they?
See, I think a lot of the problem with this is simply with how the original post was spun. Replace every instance of the word 'camp' in it for 'protect', and suddenly it becomes difficult to work out exactly what the problem is.
See, it seems like you're saying that sieges shouldn't be used for what they are designed to do... As though you're just bitter because the marine team isn't playing how you think.
If you think the marine team would still have an easy time just busting into the hive anyway, then exactly what is the problem? They're just getting the same result a different way. Sieges are a specialist device; they have a set role, and they perform it well. They can't do much outside of that role, so the res cost is about right.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mervaka+Aug 28 2003, 08:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mervaka @ Aug 28 2003, 08:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i see wot me means in some cases tho, coz so often is the case where the sieges and TFs are buried deep behind a farm of turrets, with or without HA/HMGers backing it all up :/ just gets to the point where the aliens find its impossible to get thru. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah I feel your pain except for me its these damn aliens. For some reason they all come and kill me when I kill thier hive and quite often they protect it with OC's and stuff...
imho this is cheap AND lame. People shouldn't be able to defend their assets.....
Sounds to me like the aliens on that server are below par. Marines have such a difficult time of it right now in 2.0x that it takes a really sucky alien team to have marines win.
As an example I went AFK for 15 minutes during a game, in that time the aliens were leading, even though we were 1-2 men short. I go AFK for that 15 minutes and when I get back the aliens are losing. My disappearance for 15 minutes combined with a 1-2 man difference on the marine team allowed the marines to win the game. It was the marines second win of the night after at least 20 games. I was on the server for over 5 hours and I was the only other marine win (as comm).
Marines deserve every win they get because the aliens really have to F it up to lose.
I'd suggest you tell the aliens to stop going onos so early and spend that 100 res on fortifying the outsides of their hives as they used to in 1.04.
Comments
Its not like marines complain for using Onos, so why should aliens complain about marines using one of their strengths over the aliens , i.e. control of territory without line of sight.
Just treat the sieges like turret farms,how hard can that be?? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Go for bilebombs,and pit your whole teams against the odds,and hope you prevail
And if you only got 1 hive,just get an Onos instead of bilebomb,and pray that he remains alive for a long time <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most mature post I've seen in this whole thread.
You're very right, I should try this. My problem is that I see sieges for the 900th time in the round, and I tell my whole team. Who end up attacking the sieges to no avail? Only me. Maybe one other player. If we ALL attacked sieges like a GOOD team should, we would have half a chance.
I'm just one of those people who really hates the same thing over. And over. And over. And over. And over...
So if we had organization, like 8 DC's in the back, out of line of fire, lerks for umbra, some moves for adrenaline, and a few gorges to bilebomb (and perhaps a little bit of backup like a few skulks and a fade) we could take a TF and all that stuff out fairly easily. But this is not the case hardly ever.
Its not like marines complain for using Onos, so why should aliens complain about marines using one of their strengths over the aliens , i.e. control of territory without line of sight. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos costs 100 resources + upgrades + 2 more hives to be truely effective.
Two siege turrets cost far shy of that. Personally I think the ability to shoot through walls and blow the crap out of the enemy should come at a steep price :/
So the problem really isn't the sieges but your team. Get a better team. Problem solved!
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Needless to say, they stopped sieging...
I wish so bad you few that dont like seige now where here for 1.0....lol. Seiges used to auto fire once built, and the had no LOS requirements and a much larger range.
Marines are by nature a defensive style of gameplay. A lot of their strategies revolve around taking territory and then building it up...then moving on to the next chunck of the level. Its extremely unintelligent to take a risk when there is no reward for it. Any tactican could tell you that.
NS is about team versus team, it sounds like your team sucked, and theirs was just better. It does happen. You CAN NOT honestly expect to win every game. I have seen more seigeing attempts fail in 2.0 then become successful. HA/SG's seems to be the easiest and quickest way to kill the hive.
Seiges are expensive to build, very weak, and require constant pinging of the hive. Aliens speed and ability to cover the map and scout makes up for their lack of defensive support structure wise.
If you want to really stop seiges, try putting down an OC in each "known" seigeing room. The second you see it under attack respond with some support and you should be fine.
Look up the defintion of seige, and read what it says.... Pretty accurate to what you described. It takes 3 seiges to really take down a hive anyway.
I ask that you not get angry about a marine team playing a better game than your alien team...
It insults intelligence that I know you have.
But I do not think this is unbalanced compared to what the aliens can do, it is just different.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't dispute your claim.. I don't think I've ever played with you... but I'm always rushing a seige outpost....
And I know many others are as well..
So it's ok to use a Siege so as long as it's used they way you like? Isn't that a bit selfish? Would it be ok with you if I sieged only the 1st and 2nd hive leaving the 3rd to be killed with guns? Jeez man.. hello.
Gobble
Sieges are to Aliens as Onos are to marines.
Once you see them coming, youre gonna need to work fast, or build your stuff all over again. When you take them out, they come back.
See what i mean? Leave the sieges in, its already hard enough to win as marines. And dont gimme that good comm stuff either.
any one who has played ns2 for at least 2 - 3 days has experienced one of those fun games where marines are camped out in a room (usually a marine start point) that has no nice vents to bile bomb, and a shite lot of turrets, GL spam, etc etc etc. perfect example: ns_eclipse marine start...
there is not a lot aliens can do except keep pushing in and hoping to get lucky with some onos + umbra combo's or lots and lots of acid rockets (no gorge can bile bomb because u get shredded by any marine with a pistol guarding the left door...)
however, reverse the roles, when aliens are camped out into their last hive, and TA DA! marines get siege to end it.. i just wish there was some 3 hive way for aliens to really cut up marine out-posts, (and onos don't count cause GL > umbra)
If so, your my hero :-P
(For the uninitaited, OllyJ debug is an in-process EXE debugger; one of the best)
I think you need to look at it the other way around.
Why complain about the siege when there are so many complaints about the onos?
Makes just as little sense. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Teflon raises an interesting point. In 2.0 I only drop HMGs when the cows come home. Otherwise, shotguns/GLs do the work just fine. And the random vanilla marine to keep a strong foothold in forward outposts.
I do believe they're trying to fix HMG so that it is actually worth that 20 res you have to plop down, so I'm just going to sit and wait it out.
(Sieges for 15 is nothing, turrets for 10 is fair, hives for 35? eh? eh? Works out, too, but gives the aliens a hive within 4 minutes)
^^^This was not a complaint, merely an example.
Sieges, in 2.0 are about 2x the worth of one HMG at 3/4 the cost. The only disadvantage? immobile (losing them isn't too bad, losing an HMG is even more annoying)
Teflon raises an interesting point. In 2.0 I only drop HMGs when the cows come home. Otherwise, shotguns/GLs do the work just fine. And the random vanilla marine to keep a strong foothold in forward outposts.
I do believe they're trying to fix HMG so that it is actually worth that 20 res you have to plop down, so I'm just going to sit and wait it out.
(Sieges for 15 is nothing, turrets for 10 is fair, hives for 35? eh? eh? Works out, too, but gives the aliens a hive within 4 minutes)
^^^This was not a complaint, merely an example.
Sieges, in 2.0 are about 2x the worth of one HMG at 3/4 the cost. The only disadvantage? immobile (losing them isn't too bad, losing an HMG is even more annoying) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well hives will be 50ish in 2.01, won't they?
See, it seems like you're saying that sieges shouldn't be used for what they are designed to do... As though you're just bitter because the marine team isn't playing how you think.
If you think the marine team would still have an easy time just busting into the hive anyway, then exactly what is the problem? They're just getting the same result a different way. Sieges are a specialist device; they have a set role, and they perform it well. They can't do much outside of that role, so the res cost is about right.
Yeah I feel your pain except for me its these damn aliens. For some reason they all come and kill me when I kill thier hive and quite often they protect it with OC's and stuff...
imho this is cheap AND lame. People shouldn't be able to defend their assets.....
As an example I went AFK for 15 minutes during a game, in that time the aliens were leading, even though we were 1-2 men short. I go AFK for that 15 minutes and when I get back the aliens are losing. My disappearance for 15 minutes combined with a 1-2 man difference on the marine team allowed the marines to win the game. It was the marines second win of the night after at least 20 games. I was on the server for over 5 hours and I was the only other marine win (as comm).
Marines deserve every win they get because the aliens really have to F it up to lose.
I'd suggest you tell the aliens to stop going onos so early and spend that 100 res on fortifying the outsides of their hives as they used to in 1.04.