if you reallt want a chamber then ffs go gorge right in the beggining and drop it then everyone has the right to pick the chamber they want sure thing that it might destroy for the team but its still their right
People drop sensory first i leave, theres no point to cloaking when good players arent spotted anyway. (and most veteran players feel the same way) im not even in the movment chamber being godly group i do enjoy movments but i think d is equily usefull
d and movment make a great combination, snesory's contributing is mabby 10% of my game... if that. sensory is far overrated.
Most people drop MCs, I like making sensorie connections so no one is ever not cloaked. But that's only if the marine team is a bit bad. But then again, I do ask what people want. Usualy, MC's or D's are first, but the second chamber is decided on how the game is progressing ( It's going fine, we can get DS and rush onos and fades. Turret farms, get sensories, and bile them.)
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Sensory is quite alright as a way to contain marines, but it still has the problem of not giving much boost to the base-cracking alien abilities - at least bases covered by an observatory.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin--bugulu+Aug 31 2003, 01:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bugulu @ Aug 31 2003, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you reallt want a chamber then ffs go gorge right in the beggining and drop it then everyone has the right to pick the chamber they want sure thing that it might destroy for the team but its still their right <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Although I would have probably spelt it a little better (<a href='http://www.iespell.com' target='_blank'>use this</a>), I couldn't agree more. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Along the same line of thought, has anyone noticed how it's always the self-appointed elite players who save for an early Fade who shout loudest about the lack of nodes or chambers? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Grendel+Aug 31 2003, 09:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Aug 31 2003, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--bugulu+Aug 31 2003, 01:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bugulu @ Aug 31 2003, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you reallt want a chamber then ffs go gorge right in the beggining and drop it then everyone has the right to pick the chamber they want sure thing that it might destroy for the team but its still their right <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Although I would have probably spelt it a little better (<a href='http://www.iespell.com' target='_blank'>use this</a>), I couldn't agree more. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Along the same line of thought, has anyone noticed how it's always the self-appointed elite players who save for an early Fade who shout loudest about the lack of nodes or chambers? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed.
Yeah. It's always funny how people freak out if there arent 3 chambers up the moment the hive is up, and when someone says why don't you do it they're like "I'm saving for Onos. Onos will help us.".
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
Ive seen aliens win just as many times with a SC dropped first as any other structure. Especialy on dark maps such as Lost or Mineshaft, where cloacked aliens lay waste to those marines. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thank you Cpl.Davies. I thought the world had gone mad.
MC FIRST? SORRY? I hate to shout and tell ppl that my oppinion is better than theirs, but I'm going to do it. I am. I can't resist. Sorry. It's comming... I'll back it up...
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> Movement chamber over sensory in NS 2? ARE YOU EFFING NUTS? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Even if you do cloak against level 2 weapons... You usually get the first bite, then get wasted because you're so close they can't miss. It's a big waste... It doesn't help you late game because you have to sacrafice regen/cara/redemp or adrenaline.
If you want cloaking silence does the job even better. Just hide somewhere over a door or in a place people won't check, then sneak up behind them. Before they know what happened they will be Skulk food.
If you have sense 1st/2nd and the marines lock down a hive it takes an age to take down their defences... So they can turret farm it more/save for HA.
Yesterday somebody built sens first without asking and it just made me extremely mad. I knew exactly where the marines were because I para'd them at the start, we had no 2nd hive going up so when they got shotguns and weapon/armour upgrades we just got totally owned. We had obviously lost the game, but with the mass cloaked WOLs in our hive it would just drag on for ages. I just ended up leaving because I was so angry.
You just can't attack with sense, it's only fun at the end when you can cloak to devour a HA.
A commander can easily counter cloaking, and a semi intelligent marine can counter it too.
ever heard of looking at the minimap.... if you walk pasted a cloak skulk you see him.... sensories is the third chamber only thing useful is sof... mvmt you got silence now they will see you on minimap but they wont hear you drop... or adren good for lerks... ever played lerk no how annoying it is to be constantly spored.... then there is celerity ok now you can get down long hallwyas.. faster to kill rines
wewt now sens wewt sof cool wallhax... cloaking totally pointless when there are 10001 places to hide in a map... pheremones WTH is pheremones
ps please close this becuause this is gonna start a flame war
I usually go for lerk at the start, and IMO movement is useless to me as 1st chamber. There aint no better upgrade than Scent of fear, the second being Regeneration. I just watch them move out of base and spore wawy while retreating. I really have no use for Celeerity, Adrenaline is not bad but whats it worth when I'm gonna get swiss-cheesed by LMGs by the time i use up all my energy.
Sensory chambers cloak buildings. Fact. Not many marines are fooled by an empty res point missing its Nano-sludge vapours.
However, cloaking hives confuses marines and they think the hive spot must be emtpy. SCs come into their own when they cloak Offence chambers. This is a huge advantage. Hiding that defence chamber or offence chamber will really help take down the marines.
Which will die? It is fine to say 'an experienced player can hide himself', but it's a load of rubbish. Sorry. You can hide, but not sneak up on. You make noise, the marine turns, shoots you. And a cloaked fade can go right past turrets. Think of it. You have Scent of Fear and Pharamones too!
If you still don't like the SC, then what about Defence!?!?! That is DEFINATELY better than Movement. Movement has adrenaline, and that's about it. Clerity? Not much use. Silence? Cloak is better. And with a sensory chamber near you, you can cloak AND have scent of fear. The marines have no chance.
Seriously... If you don't know where marines are on a map, you need to play with a better team or work out marine tactics better. NS maps are small enough to go around with Skulk at the start and get a feel for what the marines are trying, also parasiting them.
With DCs and MCs, you drop 3 of them and you get instantly useful upgrades. With sensory you need to drop about 10 of them before you get a benefit. Now try building those 10 SCs at the start of a game. That 100 res which could be used on hives, respoints or OCs. By the time you have SCs in vital points marines will have enough tech to destroy you. Also, remember it is not easy to put SCs on a lot of routes the marines take.
With sens first, when you get the 2nd hive up, in effect, you're either forcing your team to retreat to the hive everytime they need healing, or you are forcing your team not to be able to rush in and cause lot's of damage due to energy running out.
Wow. Loads of ppl posted before I could finish. Sorry.
Anyway, I do usually ask first, then shout at them if they say movement. D chambers are fine as first upgrade, but move is definately last. The 'move to furthes hive' function is really useful, but is taken out in 2.01c. Mind you, I think it's back in in d.
I think people whine too much about the chambers on the servers I play...the main reason I find Sensories aren't as good a chamber on servers are because players on the alien team start mucking about and playing stupid if sensory is put up first. They don't try to utilise it, they just condemn themselves to death.
I like defence chambers at the start, as my skulk and gorge survive longer, and I don't have to be at a res point to heal it. I like movement chambers at the start as my skulk can close down the distance on a marine much easier, and my gorge can get away easier...plus at key battle points a couple of MC's mean as a gorge I can heal without stopping, and if the marines try a phase/siege rush a couple of mc's mean that my aliens won't run out of energy while munching on things. I like sensories at the start if they're placed correctly in the map, as it means that I can move just about anywhere on the map without getting seen, and SoF shows me whenever a marine is coming near. Also it makes my OC traps a whole lot more effective in the early game when marines are scouting specifically for res.
They're all equally viable to me at first hive...the people that seem to have the most vocal voice against a specific chamber are those that res wh.ore for fades or onos, who have their own set mind of the second hive evolutions they MUST have <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As a marine I hate DC's, as it means I can't take out OC's without a team and weaponry, it means the skulks don't die, and it means gorges have the ability to kill me before I kill them, or they dissapear with a vacuum sucking sound. As a marine I hate MC's because a skulk is ontop of me before I've put 2/3rds of the normal bullets I'd put in him. I hate MC's because gorges are able to run from me. As a marine I hate SC's because there is far too much uncertainty as to where the threat is, because I know that even without being parasited, aliens probably know where I am and where I'm going, I hate SC's because of the gorge that gets missed as I walk by it, and because of the skulk that only becomes visible 5 foot in front of me.
If anything MC is chamber I'd least put at first hive, not because it doesn't have the advantages as an alien, but because it strikes less fear or worry, or perhaps hastle...into the marine team.
I think this update has done absolutely well at making each chamber almost equally viable at first hive, and the dev's/pt's have done a great job with it...now it's the players turn to stop with this stigma that is from 1.04 that DC/MC/SC is the order of choice, and need to broaden their skills so that they can onos with just SC as a chamber, or whatever...you know?
Lets all just try and learn the new parts of the game instead of slating them because they're not what we know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CaL_FiN+Aug 31 2003, 05:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CaL_FiN @ Aug 31 2003, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> With DCs and MCs, you drop 3 of them and you get instantly useful upgrades. With sensory you need to drop about 10 of them before you get a benefit. Now try building those 10 SCs at the start of a game. That 100 res which could be used on hives, respoints or OCs. By the time you have SCs in vital points marines will have enough tech to destroy you. Also, remember it is not easy to put SCs on a lot of routes the marines take. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a valid point, maybe one that needs to be heard to help increase the SC's usefulness a little?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With sens first, when you get the 2nd hive up, in effect, you're either forcing your team to retreat to the hive everytime they need healing, or you are forcing your team not to be able to rush in and cause lot's of damage due to energy running out.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree with this. If an onos or fade or whatever is making a significant attack, say on a marine base...what would you build if you had DC/MC? You'd probably build 3 maybe 4 DC's and a few OC's for protection, so that the onos/fade can come back and get healed?
Well how about sensory being placed all the way up to the base so that only the observatory range is now free of cloakage? Now you place those same few oc's away from the base, but instead of DC's, put three MC's...and keep that little alien outpost manned by at least one gorge...if you have a teamworking team, get two or three gorges. hey will all be able to heal pretty much constantly. I'm not sure about rates, but don't three gorges heal a bit faster than three DC's? Especially if they never run out of energy?
As for the SC/DC combination, that is certainly useful enough as it is...the difference is that SC + another chamber requires teamwork, DC/MC seems to require less teamwork.
I can't agree that DC/MC is the ultimate combination, I agree it's slightly better than the other combo's, but not so significantly that aliens should be so childish as to quit the game or stop trying just because SC was placed.
Oh boy... Yey... How to reply to this without flaming... Compose yourself... Breath...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, cloaking hives confuses marines and they think the hive spot must be emtpy. SCs come into their own when they cloak Offence chambers. This is a huge advantage. Hiding that defence chamber or offence chamber will really help take down the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Has your commander ever heard of scan? Hiding an offence chamber makes no diffence, as soon as it fires you know where it is so you can just take them out like you would do normally. Also obs can just uncloak them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which will die? It is fine to say 'an experienced player can hide himself', but it's a load of rubbish. Sorry. You can hide, but not sneak up on. You make noise, the marine turns, shoots you. And a cloaked fade can go right past turrets. Think of it. You have Scent of Fear and Pharamones too!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An experienced player can hide themselves. Hide around a corner and listen for a marine, then time your attack. You make a noise?! Perhaps... Movement chambers give you silence?
Wow, a fade can go by turrets? Is that destroying the turrets and clearing the area or is it avoiding the problem?
SoF and Pher... As I said before, if you don't know where the marines are you need a better team/learn marine tactics better. Pher is useless, it leavesa yellow puffy cloud, but you can hear where the marine is going anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you still don't like the SC, then what about Defence!?!?! That is DEFINATELY better than Movement. Movement has adrenaline, and that's about it. Clerity? Not much use. Silence? Cloak is better. And with a sensory chamber near you, you can cloak AND have scent of fear. The marines have no chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, DCs are great, but this is about sens.
Well, due to your unfounded points and the countless times I've lost to sens being the first chamber you have failed to make me change my mind. Celerity is fantastic early game when you don't have leap, silence as I've said before and adrenaline... Fantastic for all aliens.
Again, motion tracking solves all your problems, a commander who knows what scan is and builds obs at outposts can counter it.
It sounds to me that you're not playing with experienced players. I'd advise you to play on a server with some good players and try winning with sens first.
Let me lay it down really easy on people who just cant stop being wrong about sensory:
Movement has 3 USEFULL upgrades: celerity, which boosts skulk effectiveness by a crapload. Silence, which also boosts skulk effectiveness. Adrenaline, which is good for Gorge/Lerk/Fade/Onos. Defense, which is still preferred over sensory any day, has 3 USEFULL upgrades. Regeneration for Gorge/Lerk/Onos. Carapace for Skulk/Gorge/Fade, and Redemption for Onos. Sensory has 1 feasible upgrade, which is Scent of Fear. Cloak is only usefull for Gorge and maybe Onos in the engame.
Conclusion: DONT FREAKING BUILD SENSORIES, YOU RUIN MY GAME.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well how about sensory being placed all the way up to the base so that only the observatory range is now free of cloakage? Now you place those same few oc's away from the base, but instead of DC's, put three MC's...and keep that little alien outpost manned by at least one gorge...if you have a teamworking team, get two or three gorges. hey will all be able to heal pretty much constantly. I'm not sure about rates, but don't three gorges heal a bit faster than three DC's? Especially if they never run out of energy?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but i would rather have DCs and those 3 gorges could go Onos/Fade/Lerk and attack with you. It's bad enough that you sometimes have 3 perm Gorges in a game. With sensory you have to have more Gorges to build sens. Sensory just lacks the ability of offence and this point just proves this.
There is NO point in arguing about what chamaber first in general.
Fades dont need defense chambers (they love movement), lerks dont need sensory chambers (they love defense) and onoses dont need movement chambers (they love sensory) that much.
When 1/2 of your team is gorge you really need movement, when 1/3 is gorge you need SC, when 1/4 is gorge you are fine with Defense Chambers.
When your team is attacking the enemy to slow it down in its expansion, movement is your friend. When your team is expanding and building lots of resnodes, sensory is best. When you get attacked or need to be defensive, defend Bases, Defense Chambers are best.
...
I agree that "overall" sens first is great on 2.0 and publics especially against less experienced marines, and movement first is great on 2.01d and clan servers when marines know what they are doing. Defense chambers stay most popular second chamber because sooner or later you need to defend. NO CHAMBER (ORDER) IS ESSENTIAL.
Another point: Stop moaning about the chamber I drop anytime. I most times drop 80% of all upgrade chambers keeping a close look about game state, while I get flamed for thoose that just wait for 100 res.
Then the commander pings the area and it's 100% useless!
OMG Why would you *NOT* want a chamber that can be countered by a building that is usually one of the first the marines build, and they can decloak you for FREE afterwards? Why would you EVER choose anything else?
Comments
someone make a script that auto bans anyone who doesnt do it this way.
(and most veteran players feel the same way)
im not even in the movment chamber being godly group i do enjoy movments but i think d is equily usefull
d and movment make a great combination, snesory's contributing is mabby 10% of my game... if that.
sensory is far overrated.
-Impy <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Although I would have probably spelt it a little better (<a href='http://www.iespell.com' target='_blank'>use this</a>), I couldn't agree more. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Along the same line of thought, has anyone noticed how it's always the self-appointed elite players who save for an early Fade who shout loudest about the lack of nodes or chambers? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Although I would have probably spelt it a little better (<a href='http://www.iespell.com' target='_blank'>use this</a>), I couldn't agree more. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Along the same line of thought, has anyone noticed how it's always the self-appointed elite players who save for an early Fade who shout loudest about the lack of nodes or chambers? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed.
Selfish domineers.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I thought the world had gone mad.
MC FIRST? SORRY? I hate to shout and tell ppl that my oppinion is better than theirs, but I'm going to do it. I am. I can't resist. Sorry. It's comming... I'll back it up...
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> Movement chamber over sensory in NS 2? ARE YOU EFFING NUTS? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorry. I'm ok now.
If you want cloaking silence does the job even better. Just hide somewhere over a door or in a place people won't check, then sneak up behind them. Before they know what happened they will be Skulk food.
If you have sense 1st/2nd and the marines lock down a hive it takes an age to take down their defences... So they can turret farm it more/save for HA.
Yesterday somebody built sens first without asking and it just made me extremely mad. I knew exactly where the marines were because I para'd them at the start, we had no 2nd hive going up so when they got shotguns and weapon/armour upgrades we just got totally owned. We had obviously lost the game, but with the mass cloaked WOLs in our hive it would just drag on for ages. I just ended up leaving because I was so angry.
You just can't attack with sense, it's only fun at the end when you can cloak to devour a HA.
A commander can easily counter cloaking, and a semi intelligent marine can counter it too.
ever heard of looking at the minimap.... if you walk pasted a cloak skulk you see him.... sensories is the third chamber only thing useful is sof... mvmt you got silence now they will see you on minimap but they wont hear you drop... or adren good for lerks... ever played lerk no how annoying it is to be constantly spored.... then there is celerity ok now you can get down long hallwyas.. faster to kill rines
wewt now sens wewt sof cool wallhax... cloaking totally pointless when there are 10001 places to hide in a map... pheremones WTH is pheremones
ps please close this becuause this is gonna start a flame war
My word is SDM
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sensory chambers cloak buildings. Fact. Not many marines are fooled by an empty res point missing its Nano-sludge vapours.
However, cloaking hives confuses marines and they think the hive spot must be emtpy. SCs come into their own when they cloak Offence chambers. This is a huge advantage. Hiding that defence chamber or offence chamber will really help take down the marines.
Also, compare the 2:
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> [invisible skulk]
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Which will die? It is fine to say 'an experienced player can hide himself', but it's a load of rubbish. Sorry. You can hide, but not sneak up on. You make noise, the marine turns, shoots you. And a cloaked fade can go right past turrets. Think of it.
You have Scent of Fear and Pharamones too!
If you still don't like the SC, then what about Defence!?!?! That is DEFINATELY better than Movement. Movement has adrenaline, and that's about it. Clerity? Not much use. Silence? Cloak is better. And with a sensory chamber near you, you can cloak AND have scent of fear. The marines have no chance.
With DCs and MCs, you drop 3 of them and you get instantly useful upgrades. With sensory you need to drop about 10 of them before you get a benefit. Now try building those 10 SCs at the start of a game. That 100 res which could be used on hives, respoints or OCs. By the time you have SCs in vital points marines will have enough tech to destroy you. Also, remember it is not easy to put SCs on a lot of routes the marines take.
With sens first, when you get the 2nd hive up, in effect, you're either forcing your team to retreat to the hive everytime they need healing, or you are forcing your team not to be able to rush in and cause lot's of damage due to energy running out.
Anyway, I do usually ask first, then shout at them if they say movement. D chambers are fine as first upgrade, but move is definately last. The 'move to furthes hive' function is really useful, but is taken out in 2.01c. Mind you, I think it's back in in d.
I like defence chambers at the start, as my skulk and gorge survive longer, and I don't have to be at a res point to heal it.
I like movement chambers at the start as my skulk can close down the distance on a marine much easier, and my gorge can get away easier...plus at key battle points a couple of MC's mean as a gorge I can heal without stopping, and if the marines try a phase/siege rush a couple of mc's mean that my aliens won't run out of energy while munching on things.
I like sensories at the start if they're placed correctly in the map, as it means that I can move just about anywhere on the map without getting seen, and SoF shows me whenever a marine is coming near. Also it makes my OC traps a whole lot more effective in the early game when marines are scouting specifically for res.
They're all equally viable to me at first hive...the people that seem to have the most vocal voice against a specific chamber are those that res wh.ore for fades or onos, who have their own set mind of the second hive evolutions they MUST have <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As a marine I hate DC's, as it means I can't take out OC's without a team and weaponry, it means the skulks don't die, and it means gorges have the ability to kill me before I kill them, or they dissapear with a vacuum sucking sound.
As a marine I hate MC's because a skulk is ontop of me before I've put 2/3rds of the normal bullets I'd put in him. I hate MC's because gorges are able to run from me.
As a marine I hate SC's because there is far too much uncertainty as to where the threat is, because I know that even without being parasited, aliens probably know where I am and where I'm going, I hate SC's because of the gorge that gets missed as I walk by it, and because of the skulk that only becomes visible 5 foot in front of me.
If anything MC is chamber I'd least put at first hive, not because it doesn't have the advantages as an alien, but because it strikes less fear or worry, or perhaps hastle...into the marine team.
I think this update has done absolutely well at making each chamber almost equally viable at first hive, and the dev's/pt's have done a great job with it...now it's the players turn to stop with this stigma that is from 1.04 that DC/MC/SC is the order of choice, and need to broaden their skills so that they can onos with just SC as a chamber, or whatever...you know?
Lets all just try and learn the new parts of the game instead of slating them because they're not what we know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Lee
This is a valid point, maybe one that needs to be heard to help increase the SC's usefulness a little?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With sens first, when you get the 2nd hive up, in effect, you're either forcing your team to retreat to the hive everytime they need healing, or you are forcing your team not to be able to rush in and cause lot's of damage due to energy running out.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree with this. If an onos or fade or whatever is making a significant attack, say on a marine base...what would you build if you had DC/MC? You'd probably build 3 maybe 4 DC's and a few OC's for protection, so that the onos/fade can come back and get healed?
Well how about sensory being placed all the way up to the base so that only the observatory range is now free of cloakage? Now you place those same few oc's away from the base, but instead of DC's, put three MC's...and keep that little alien outpost manned by at least one gorge...if you have a teamworking team, get two or three gorges. hey will all be able to heal pretty much constantly. I'm not sure about rates, but don't three gorges heal a bit faster than three DC's? Especially if they never run out of energy?
As for the SC/DC combination, that is certainly useful enough as it is...the difference is that SC + another chamber requires teamwork, DC/MC seems to require less teamwork.
I can't agree that DC/MC is the ultimate combination, I agree it's slightly better than the other combo's, but not so significantly that aliens should be so childish as to quit the game or stop trying just because SC was placed.
-Lee
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, cloaking hives confuses marines and they think the hive spot must be emtpy. SCs come into their own when they cloak Offence chambers. This is a huge advantage. Hiding that defence chamber or offence chamber will really help take down the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Has your commander ever heard of scan? Hiding an offence chamber makes no diffence, as soon as it fires you know where it is so you can just take them out like you would do normally. Also obs can just uncloak them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which will die? It is fine to say 'an experienced player can hide himself', but it's a load of rubbish. Sorry. You can hide, but not sneak up on. You make noise, the marine turns, shoots you. And a cloaked fade can go right past turrets. Think of it.
You have Scent of Fear and Pharamones too!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An experienced player can hide themselves. Hide around a corner and listen for a marine, then time your attack. You make a noise?! Perhaps... Movement chambers give you silence?
Wow, a fade can go by turrets? Is that destroying the turrets and clearing the area or is it avoiding the problem?
SoF and Pher... As I said before, if you don't know where the marines are you need a better team/learn marine tactics better. Pher is useless, it leavesa yellow puffy cloud, but you can hear where the marine is going anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you still don't like the SC, then what about Defence!?!?! That is DEFINATELY better than Movement. Movement has adrenaline, and that's about it. Clerity? Not much use. Silence? Cloak is better. And with a sensory chamber near you, you can cloak AND have scent of fear. The marines have no chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, DCs are great, but this is about sens.
Well, due to your unfounded points and the countless times I've lost to sens being the first chamber you have failed to make me change my mind. Celerity is fantastic early game when you don't have leap, silence as I've said before and adrenaline... Fantastic for all aliens.
Again, motion tracking solves all your problems, a commander who knows what scan is and builds obs at outposts can counter it.
It sounds to me that you're not playing with experienced players. I'd advise you to play on a server with some good players and try winning with sens first.
Movement has 3 USEFULL upgrades: celerity, which boosts skulk effectiveness by a crapload. Silence, which also boosts skulk effectiveness. Adrenaline, which is good for Gorge/Lerk/Fade/Onos.
Defense, which is still preferred over sensory any day, has 3 USEFULL upgrades. Regeneration for Gorge/Lerk/Onos. Carapace for Skulk/Gorge/Fade, and Redemption for Onos.
Sensory has 1 feasible upgrade, which is Scent of Fear. Cloak is only usefull for Gorge and maybe Onos in the engame.
Conclusion: DONT FREAKING BUILD SENSORIES, YOU RUIN MY GAME.
I'm sorry, but i would rather have DCs and those 3 gorges could go Onos/Fade/Lerk and attack with you. It's bad enough that you sometimes have 3 perm Gorges in a game. With sensory you have to have more Gorges to build sens. Sensory just lacks the ability of offence and this point just proves this.
Fades dont need defense chambers (they love movement), lerks dont need sensory chambers (they love defense) and onoses dont need movement chambers (they love sensory) that much.
When 1/2 of your team is gorge you really need movement,
when 1/3 is gorge you need SC,
when 1/4 is gorge you are fine with Defense Chambers.
When your team is attacking the enemy to slow it down in its expansion, movement is your friend. When your team is expanding and building lots of resnodes, sensory is best.
When you get attacked or need to be defensive, defend Bases, Defense Chambers are best.
...
I agree that "overall" sens first is great on 2.0 and publics especially against less experienced marines, and movement first is great on 2.01d and clan servers when marines know what they are doing.
Defense chambers stay most popular second chamber because sooner or later you need to defend.
NO CHAMBER (ORDER) IS ESSENTIAL.
Another point:
Stop moaning about the chamber I drop anytime. I most times drop 80% of all upgrade chambers keeping a close look about game state, while I get flamed for thoose that just wait for 100 res.
Then the commander pings the area and it's 100% useless!
OMG Why would you *NOT* want a chamber that can be countered by a building that is usually one of the first the marines build, and they can decloak you for FREE afterwards? Why would you EVER choose anything else?