White Wolf Is Suing Sony For The Movie Underworld
DOOManiac
Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">White Wolf claims ownership of vampires</div>As usual, <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com' target='_blank'>Penny Arcade</a> sums things up quite nicely:
<img src='http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20030908l.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Apparently White Wolf is suing Sony because the movie <a href='http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/' target='_blank'>Underworld</a> has vampires in it. Oh and werewolves.
<a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf' target='_blank'>Read the document yourself</a> (Adobe Acrobat .PDF)
Here's a few extracts:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->31. A second <i>Vampire: The Masquerade</i> inspired videogame, titled <i>Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines</i>, is in development using Valve Software's technology and game engine first used in the videogame <i>Half-Life II</i>
32. White Wolf and its partners announced the upcoming release of its second <i>Vampire: The Masquerade</i> inspired videogame, with a demonstration, at E3 - the Electronic Entertainment Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center on May 13, 2003.
*Snip*
51. Defendant Sony Pictures has also announced on its <i>Underworld</i> website ( <a href='http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/' target='_blank'>http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/</a> ) the upcoming release of a related video game - <i>Underworld: Bloodlines</i>, which is based on the game engine of Valve Software's videogame Half-Life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now granted this is a sticky situation, but wasn't the mod released BEFORE E3? And even if it was only shortly afterwards, there goes a lot into making a mod, even a crappy one. It can't just be thrown out a few weeks after they see it at E3, it had to have been in development for longer than that.
And besides, Konami should sue both of them. After all, they had a game called Castlevania: Bloodlines. It had vampires. And werewolves. And <i>Bloodlines</i> in the title.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->44. It is essentially a new perspective on the star-crossed lovers theme commonly associated with Shakespeare's <i>Romeo & Juliet</i>.
*snip*
47. <i>Underworld</i> is being marketted as a new perspective on Shakespeare's <i>Romeo & Juliet</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds to me like Shakespeare should sue em both! And then that one guy who wrote the original one could sue Shakespeare!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->85. In the World of Darkness, the background setting is very dark, described as gothic/punk. In <i>Underworld</i>, the background setting is very dark with a combination of gothic and punk attire, settings, and people.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh oh, White Wolf forgot to sue Blade and Blade 2! Also they forgot to sue the thousands of goths running around claiming to be vampires...
There more fun awaiting inside the <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf' target='_blank'>formal legal document thing</a>. (Adobe Acrobat .PDF)
So what do you guys think of this? Think they have any real grounds to sue? Think they'll win?
<img src='http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20030908l.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Apparently White Wolf is suing Sony because the movie <a href='http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/' target='_blank'>Underworld</a> has vampires in it. Oh and werewolves.
<a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf' target='_blank'>Read the document yourself</a> (Adobe Acrobat .PDF)
Here's a few extracts:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->31. A second <i>Vampire: The Masquerade</i> inspired videogame, titled <i>Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines</i>, is in development using Valve Software's technology and game engine first used in the videogame <i>Half-Life II</i>
32. White Wolf and its partners announced the upcoming release of its second <i>Vampire: The Masquerade</i> inspired videogame, with a demonstration, at E3 - the Electronic Entertainment Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center on May 13, 2003.
*Snip*
51. Defendant Sony Pictures has also announced on its <i>Underworld</i> website ( <a href='http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/' target='_blank'>http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/</a> ) the upcoming release of a related video game - <i>Underworld: Bloodlines</i>, which is based on the game engine of Valve Software's videogame Half-Life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now granted this is a sticky situation, but wasn't the mod released BEFORE E3? And even if it was only shortly afterwards, there goes a lot into making a mod, even a crappy one. It can't just be thrown out a few weeks after they see it at E3, it had to have been in development for longer than that.
And besides, Konami should sue both of them. After all, they had a game called Castlevania: Bloodlines. It had vampires. And werewolves. And <i>Bloodlines</i> in the title.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->44. It is essentially a new perspective on the star-crossed lovers theme commonly associated with Shakespeare's <i>Romeo & Juliet</i>.
*snip*
47. <i>Underworld</i> is being marketted as a new perspective on Shakespeare's <i>Romeo & Juliet</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds to me like Shakespeare should sue em both! And then that one guy who wrote the original one could sue Shakespeare!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->85. In the World of Darkness, the background setting is very dark, described as gothic/punk. In <i>Underworld</i>, the background setting is very dark with a combination of gothic and punk attire, settings, and people.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh oh, White Wolf forgot to sue Blade and Blade 2! Also they forgot to sue the thousands of goths running around claiming to be vampires...
There more fun awaiting inside the <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/dl/whitewolfcomplaint.pdf' target='_blank'>formal legal document thing</a>. (Adobe Acrobat .PDF)
So what do you guys think of this? Think they have any real grounds to sue? Think they'll win?
Comments
When you compare the two you can see why they'd be miffed though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: ok 1931. We're talking about same era as King Kong(1933)
no, im seriously sewing them
-EDIT- Blasted Grammer.....
Indeed they are not. I picked them because I felt they give the best summary of the situation and also have points users of the forum will relate too. There's too damn many points to list all of them...
no such thing as bad publicity... without this lawsuit, who (aside from their existing fans) will see the similarities? now, everyone will connect this film with WW, and it just may boost their sales.. cunning move in some ways.
I'll tell you where to cram your magic missle!
Indeed they are not. I picked them because I felt they give the best summary of the situation and also have points users of the forum will relate too. There's too damn many points to list all of them... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You would have given a better summary had you listed the characters with identical personalities or the scenes that are identical to scenes in specific works of white wolf fiction.
The use of vampires in the movie is not the reason for the complaint as you would have gleaned had you read the legal document.
You really think i would read all 64 pages ? I gave up after 5 as it was making no sense <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
All that aside, I'd have to describe the lawsuit more as 'a laughable publicity stunt'. WW knows that their WoD line is going down the tubes as more and more mock it and/or go back to their source material instead, as WW continues to attempt to overcharge for a weaksauce RPG realm.
All I can say is....Kate Beckinsale is one fine women.....Is it just me or is it totally sexy when hot girls hold/shoot guns? Weeeee <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Did you read the lawsuit?
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Stupid people think the rest of the world is as stupid as they are so. They think '0mg teh cust0merz will get c0nfux0red over teh n4m3 and crahacteres1111!!". And thus, a lawsuit is born.
And they talk in leetspeak
edit: and WTA was a great game, it set off a whole world of FFRPG (free form role playing) on Prodigy Classic, thats where I got the NN GreyPaws from, man that was ages ago.. 93, 94? Heheh I remember some of those plotlines went on for months! :: gets all nostalgic ::
People sue to make money. They don't really care about the product. It's sad, really.
Why didn't they start suing when the TRAILER for Underworld came out?
And similarities do not always mean rip-offs.
WW Exec: Hmm...our product is going down the tubes, let's make some money. Dog Soldiers had Werewolves, sue that company, An American Werewolf in Paris had werewolves, sue them, Interview With a Vampire had vampires, sue them, Queen of the Damned had vampires, sue that, Vlad Dracul, he was a blood drinker, sue him if he's still around.
Lawsuits = idiocy.
and then someone will complain that it's <i>their</i> idea thats down your neck, and not the other guys . . .
I guess the makers of every fantansy game, [novel, and shows] with "vampites" and "were wolves" in it will be on this case's case, too . . .
*bangs head on desk several times, and splits head open letting crows feast on the gooey insides*
ohhh!!! haha i get it. [gagging]
WW Exec: Hmm...our product is going down the tubes, let's make some money. Dog Soldiers had Werewolves, sue that company, An American Werewolf in Paris had werewolves, sue them, Interview With a Vampire had vampires, sue them, Queen of the Damned had vampires, sue that, Vlad Dracul, he was a blood drinker, sue him if he's still around.
Lawsuits = idiocy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is exactly why they aren't suing just due to *any* similarity.
If you people would actually read the lawsuit rather than just spouting your mouths off about it after reading DOOM's insufficient summary, you would find that they are suing due the the use of specific characters, names, plot elements, settings, encounters, and world details from their copyrighted work. The list is large and impressive if you actually get into it.
They are NOT suing due to the use of werewolves or due to the use of vampires as Doom's maliciously poor choice of topic title would lead you to believe.
here is thge deal
I don't like WoD (I like some other WW products and changeling, but not their core line)
I also don't like sony (they took my infantry away)
I actualy had a hard time deciding who I was rooting for in this lawsuit b/c I hate them both about equaly <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
so here is a better summation:
WW execs+lawyers put to gether a REALYYYY big list of similarities, more than 1/2 are just silly.
However there are a good # that are disturbingly similar from what I have gleaned so far:
They use Clans, ok, thats more ann rice then WoD, however they basicaly took the Vamp clans and renamed them (that brings it to squiffy grounds)
There was an actual book that was aparently verysimliar to this (a WoD book that is, they do fiction also)
Siera claimes they never heard of Vamp, let alone WW (BULL FUCKEN ****, yay swear filters <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
you make a sucker Vs puppy movie in this day and you claim you have NEVER heard of Mask or Apoc?? lets, go google
<a href='http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=vampire+werewolf&spell=1' target='_blank'>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...erewolf&spell=1</a>
bite me (GET AWAY YOU STINKIN GOTH WANA BE VAMP LOOSER!!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
so yah, I hate em both, but I am gona go see bloodlines (look freakin awsome <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) and when I actualy see it I will decide for my self if it is a rip off <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
yah, doomeh you picked some bad quotes to give a good gist <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
[EDIT] WoD is not being knocked off, it is simply being compleatly revamped (hehe bad pun), vamps, werewolfs, mages, and probably hunters and mumys will be back (wraith and changeling are D-E-D DEAD)
In fact you dig far enough you get the weird stuff like incorrectly killed werewolves returning as vampires, films dating waaay back about Dracula vs The Wolfman. Short stories emerged inevitably involving a werewolf hunting a vampire and only being revealed as a werewolf at the end - the payoff being that the werewolf wanted the vampire removed so that the villagers were easy kills, or he had more prey to himself, etc.
IMHO its a case of unfortunate timing more than anything else. I respect both parties need to make noises and protect copyright, but at the end of the day I think White Wolf won't win it.
again people trying to make points with out knowing the actual case grrrrrrrr
WW aint claiming they invented vamps, WWs, or a fued between em, or the starcrossed lovers (btw shakespear is the biggest plagarist on eatch, most of his stories are blatent rip offs)
but again, what they are complaining about is the rather blatentent 'similarities' between bloodlines plot, characters, sceenes, concepts etc etc etc
/me goes back to grumblin bout silly ppl not actualy readn nuffn no more