George W. Bush
DiabolusCaligo
Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20585Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20585Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">What do you think?</div> There might be a tag about this somewhere already, but I like having my name displayed on the Discussion home page thing.
ANYWAY, I mainly wanted to know what most of you guys think about Bush. I personally think he is doing the right thing by attacking Iraq.
I think he should have first concentrated on Bin Laden, but he might already be dead by now.
What really gets me is the fact that you guys (referring to anti-bush-ers) fail to realize that Iraq probably would have attacked us with the weapons of mass destruction they have by now. And, assuming that they did attack us by now, the debt would have been so much more than what it is now. Don't complain about it. The tax cuts that Bush implemented are most likely temporary the alleviate the recession. After the economy is stronger, most of the tax cuts will be put back into effect (or affect, I can't remember which).
And don't tell me we need to focus more on our country (if you're a liberal, anyway), because that's just plain hypocrisy. Most liberals that I have talked to are more focused on all the other countries out there and helping the poor, almost prehistoric countries. Well, then, if you're so focused on everyone else, then why do you blame bush for going to war? We're trying to free (and of course, get rid of the weapons) the Iraqis that are 'good.'
What I believe is that the liberals are just so rivaled to bush that they will do anything to make him look stupid. Yes, I agree, he looks like a friggin' monkey sometimes. But should physical looks be the only thing that makes a difference in the way that person will preside? That reminds me. My grandmother only voted for Gore because he had a better nose and Bush had a 'little scrawny nose.' That's just stupid. I would rather have an old guy as president because that shows they most likely have experience in politics.
In closing, post your comments, and sorry for rambling on and on.
ANYWAY, I mainly wanted to know what most of you guys think about Bush. I personally think he is doing the right thing by attacking Iraq.
I think he should have first concentrated on Bin Laden, but he might already be dead by now.
What really gets me is the fact that you guys (referring to anti-bush-ers) fail to realize that Iraq probably would have attacked us with the weapons of mass destruction they have by now. And, assuming that they did attack us by now, the debt would have been so much more than what it is now. Don't complain about it. The tax cuts that Bush implemented are most likely temporary the alleviate the recession. After the economy is stronger, most of the tax cuts will be put back into effect (or affect, I can't remember which).
And don't tell me we need to focus more on our country (if you're a liberal, anyway), because that's just plain hypocrisy. Most liberals that I have talked to are more focused on all the other countries out there and helping the poor, almost prehistoric countries. Well, then, if you're so focused on everyone else, then why do you blame bush for going to war? We're trying to free (and of course, get rid of the weapons) the Iraqis that are 'good.'
What I believe is that the liberals are just so rivaled to bush that they will do anything to make him look stupid. Yes, I agree, he looks like a friggin' monkey sometimes. But should physical looks be the only thing that makes a difference in the way that person will preside? That reminds me. My grandmother only voted for Gore because he had a better nose and Bush had a 'little scrawny nose.' That's just stupid. I would rather have an old guy as president because that shows they most likely have experience in politics.
In closing, post your comments, and sorry for rambling on and on.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Whether Iraq would have used the WMD's or not isn't something we know for sure.
The ideals, although good on paper, are going to take a really long time to work perfectly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The President's Accomplishments
I attacked and took over two countries.
I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.
I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not
easy!).
I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12
month period.
I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock
market.
I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on
vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but I did).
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over
the worst security failure in US history.
I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president
in US
history.
In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other
president in US history.
I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a 12-month
period.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any
president in US history.
I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president, since
the advent of TV.
I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than
any o
ther US president in history.
I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to
intervene when corruption was revealed.
I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take
to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for
protest against any person in the history of mankind.
I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US
history.
Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history.
(The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker
named after her.)
I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union
simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.
I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in
any country in the history of the world.
I am the first president in US history to order a US attack AND military
occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the
United Nations and the vast majority of the international community.
I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history
of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland Security"(only one
letter away from BS).
I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more
than any other president in US history (Ronnie was tough to beat, but I did
it!!).
I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations remove
the US from the Human Rights Commission.
I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the
US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
I withdrew from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default
no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign
donations.
The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best
friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in
world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US
history.
I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and
then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.
I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year
made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest
diplomatic failure in US and world history).
I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of
Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and
stability.
I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government
contracts.
I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees who
violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations
bidding for gov't contracts.
I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any
other president in US history.
I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than
two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
RECORDS AND REFERENCES: I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in
Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during time of
war.
I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my
fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt
companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the
board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public
energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
GEORGE W. BUSH
The White House,
Washington, DC<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EDIT: Note that I was wrong about the source of this quote, and as such it is entirely irrelevent.
"I don't know that Athiests should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God" --President G. W. Bush
Anyone who singles out a group of people based on their religion and says that they can't really be considerd citizens or patriots should definatly not run a country where freedom is a primary value.
EDIT: Worse yet, that part of the Pledge of allegiance wasn't added till the red scare
"I don't know that Athiests should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God" --President G. W. Bush
Anyone who singles out a group of people based on their religion and says that they can't really be considerd citizens or patriots should definatly not run a country where freedom is a primary value. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
seriously, I could've SWORN there was seperation of church and state...
Actually that's a quote from the first president Bush, not the current president.
Hmm.....Well I dislike Bush's handeling of the Iraqi problem, and would have even if he had found weapons of mass destruction. Not that removing Saddam wasn't a good thing, but a uni-lateral war isn't the best way to go about it. From the outside, it seemed as though Saddam was at least starting to comply with UN demands, and at least should have been given more time to prove his good intentions in that matter. Futher more the war most certainly spawned a whole new generation of terrorists (one of Ossama bin Laden's big problems with the US was the placement of US troops on what he considered holy soil in the first Gulf War(which incidently I do think was an appropiate war)). And quite honestly, I'm sick of having Americans come off as arrogante @$$holes all the time.
Futhermore, I personaly feel his administration has gotten a bit paranoid about Islam. Not that Islamic Extremistis aren't a problem, nor the terrorism they spawn, but there seems to be a lot of Islam=terrorism floating around. We don't equate Judiasm with terrorism, nor Christians......yet both groups also have terrorist organizations who claim to be of those faiths. The only reason there are more (if there are) Islamic extermists is that poverty, of which the Middle east is especialy stricken with, leads to extermism.
If you want to stop terrorism from the Middle East, helping them in a way that isn't just americanizing them (adimitedly extremly difficult) will do far more than any military action.
Hmmm... hes right. Consider my rant more or less annulled.... I still HATE the **** though
on and on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What weapons of mass destruction ? You mean the many non-existant ones that nobody has found yet ?
Saddam likes life, that is why he didn't go down fighting. He chose to run and hide. He would not have attacked the US because he knew the retaliation would destroy him, plain and simple.
We're going into Iraq to free the people ? That is a worthy effort, but not one that Bush took to the U.N. The pre-war justification was that Iraq posed a threat because of weapons of mass destruction. Thus the official reasoning had nothing to do with liberating the Iraqi people.
The economy. Let's just say helping the rich get richer does nothing for the poor man. "Voodoo economics" I believe is an appropriate description.
Liberals merely point out Bush's stupidities, that is all. Take a look at <a href='http://www.bushlies.net/pages/1/index.htm' target='_blank'>BushLies.net</a>
I'm sure a fact is thrown about here and there, but most of those lists are 99% bull plop!
Seriously... it throws the entire nation into a rage when a President (who saw little but unmitigated economic growth and prosperity) ends up getting a blow job.
But here we have people defending a good ol' boy jock, while he's deeply engrossed in f**king the entire US into the ground; economically, politically, and socially Bush has single-handedly made it so I feel obligated to *apologize* when I speak to an international friend, simply for living where I do. Gas prices have almost doubled locally, despite Bush's apparent **** for Iraqi oil. The college I attend was forced to raise tuition costs by 33% as WELL as cutting a number of classes from the schedule which were vital to a number of students.
And just so you know, I can corroborate roughly 60-75% of that list off the top of my head. The first five in the 'Records' section are among them.
And far from Clinton's experimentation with marijuana, Bush has incident-records on file for cocaine addiction. Yes, he appears to have 'cleaned up' (or at least is better at hiding it), but the stain remains.
I cannot accept any man stupid enough to almost choke and die on a pretzel, nor fall off a Segway scooter *repeatedly*. That kinda cr*p takes <i>talent</i> to pull off. But more the kind that belongs in a padded room, rather than leading a nation.
Seriously... it throws the entire nation into a rage when a President (who saw little but unmitigated economic growth and prosperity) ends up getting a blow job.
But here we have people defending a good ol' boy jock, while he's deeply engrossed in f**king the entire US into the ground; economically, politically, and socially Bush has single-handedly made it so I feel obligated to *apologize* when I speak to an international friend, simply for living where I do. Gas prices have almost doubled locally, despite Bush's apparent **** for Iraqi oil. The college I attend was forced to raise tuition costs by 33% as WELL as cutting a number of classes from the schedule which were vital to a number of students.
And just so you know, I can corroborate roughly 60-75% of that list off the top of my head. The first five in the 'Records' section are among them.
And far from Clinton's experimentation with marijuana, Bush has incident-records on file for cocaine addiction. Yes, he appears to have 'cleaned up' (or at least is better at hiding it), but the stain remains.
I cannot accept any man stupid enough to almost choke and die on a pretzel, nor fall off a Segway scooter *repeatedly*. That kinda cr*p takes <i>talent</i> to pull off. But more the kind that belongs in a padded room, rather than leading a nation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In Bush's defense, his older age may be affecting his balance, and the pretzel may have had years of training as a terrorist spy/ninja/assassin. But your statement of:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bush has single-handedly made it so I feel obligated to *apologize* when I speak to an international friend, simply for living where I do<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sums up my dislike for Bush rather nicely.
I'm mad at Bush too! He's been way to soft on foreign policy and he's way to liberal domestically. I can fit it, right? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm just gonna throw some stuff out... I don't want to get involved in this topic because its always just more and more hate, either at Bush, his attackers, or his defenders. Its not good for the community. This topic came up in the old forums and got locked. It was nasty.
1. Economy
Yes, the economy continues to plummet to an <a href='http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^IXIC&t=2y' target='_blank'>18 Month high.</a>
2. Afghanistan
3000 dead Americans. And we counter attacked. God, even I hate America.
3. Iraq
The Jury is out still out. Depending on which media you trust, Bush is either scrambling to cover his butt or the weapons have been found. There have been reports on both. War of oil? Paper thin. If we wanted oil, we could have said "Poof! No more weapons!" and lifted sanctions and saved lives.
4. 9/11
Did he do it? Its obvious we had some massive intelligence failures. I don't think Bush had much an effect on the organizations that messed up.
EDIT
Quick question Talesin: Impeached under what grounds? Keep in mind that disliking someone is not grounds for impeachment. Breaking the law is. (Lying under oath, ala Clinton. The problem was it was turned personal, not political). I'm not trying to bait, I'm genuinely curious.
I loathe the man for what he has done. The way he has twisted the tragedy of S-11 and turned it to his own political gain and warmongering sickens me. The way he has lied to the entire world and trampled the UN underfoot made me cry myself to sleep. As far as destabilising factors go, Bush is Number 1. With the UN now effectively gone, checks and constraints that were previously in place are being replaced by a new order: every man for himself, and the guy with the biggest guns wins. I take sweet pleasure in watching Bush crawl back to the UN begging for their help with a problem that the US created all for themselves: Iraq. To the families of the US soldiers dieing in Iraq, you know who to blame, and it isn't S. Hussain formally of 1 Palace Court, Baghdad. That Bush was willing to lead his own people into a war for his own political and financial gain is just appaling. I'll believe Iraq posed an actual threat when I see the evidence. In the meantime I'll watch all those nice US corperations using their contracts given to them by their best buddies in the White House.
Americans who read this forum, I send a plea to you: do not vote this man back into office. I don't care if the other candidate is a blind monkey with typhoid: please do not vote for Bush. If you ever want the rest of the world to like America once more, if you ever want us to respect you as a nation and as a people, do not vote for Bush.
3000 dead Americans. And we counter attacked. God, even I hate America.
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Compared to how many tens of thousands of civilians killed by US troops in previous wars? Certainly, the WTC thing was tragic. But we've done a hell of a lot worse to others.
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Did he do it? Its obvious we had some massive intelligence failures. I don't think Bush had much an effect on the organizations that messed up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except by not listening to the organizations that *didn't* mess up, and *did* have forewarning.
Oh, but I can see his reasoning, as they were intelligence organizations from <b>other nations</b>, that sent warning. Since the US is the most important nation on the face of the planet, we're free to ignore all others.. whether they disapprove of our actions, or are trying to save the lives of our own citizens. Doesn't matter if there are more than four of them sending corroborating stories, they're damn foreigners and so don't matter.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
EDIT
Quick question Talesin: Impeached under what grounds? Keep in mind that disliking someone is not grounds for impeachment. Breaking the law is. (Lying under oath, ala Clinton. The problem was it was turned personal, not political). I'm not trying to bait, I'm genuinely curious.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that the declaration of war was given without Congressional approval? Doesn't matter if they gave it later... what he did was illegal, and outright treason. (Never mind that after the declaration was given, anyone voting against it was labelled 'unpatriotic'.)
Never mind his 'vacation time' when he was supposed to be taking flight training. Being AWOL as long as he was (WELL over three months!) is counted as <b>desertion</b>. Of course, that little bit of illegality is overlooked again and again. He is technically a felon, though the good ol' boy network has kept him (so far) from paying for his crime. Similar with the (former?) cocaine addiction. I can't help but find it funny how many anti-drug laws he's passing, as a cokehead. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> How do *I* spell Bush? '<b>H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E</b>'.
5. UN
The UN is a politically bankrupt organization that was designed to keep the US in check. Its outdated, old, and ineffective. Bush was right for going around it.
And bad news Ryo: I can vote. :-P
EDIT
The War Powers Act of 1967 (Might be wrong on the year) allows the President to use the military for police actions. Only congress can declare war. It was done that way because the founders envisioned the Senate controlling foreign policy. As things evolvedm, the exectuvive branch got more power. Congress passed resolutions approving of both Iraq and Afghanistan. If they wanted to cease action, they could invoke the War Powers act and force the president to end combat. Approval was aquiseced <sic> by congress.
The AWOL issue has generally been disproven. Bush didn't serve his country with honor, but he didn't jump ship either. Do the powerful get a free pass in America? Of course. Bush proves it. It seems ridiculous to use an innacurate story just to fill up on personal hatred ammo. Wouldn't it be better to attack Bush for his policy and provide alternatives then try to assinate his character, which most Americans trust?
Here's a biased source disproving AWOL. <a href='http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39ea05224b3e.htm' target='_blank'>Free Republic</a> keep in mind that sites that still propogate this story are biased as well. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Listen, if you can sit there, in your presumably comfortable SAFE home, with power, water, and the ability to get food, and assuming you have a job. Why are you complaining? You have more than enough of your basic needs, and unless Bush personally comes to your door and kicks you in the groin, you should sit down and shut up with a big ol' FREE american smile on your face.
Here's a question most liberals usually dodge when asked on talk shows... "What would you have done different from Bush... After September 11th / In dealing with Iraq / With economy problems*."
* Seriously though, what can you do to get the economy going again?
Listen, if you can sit there, in your presumably comfortable SAFE home, with power, water, and the ability to get food, and assuming you have a job. Why are you complaining? You have more than enough of your basic needs, and unless Bush personally comes to your door and kicks you in the groin, you should sit down and shut up with a big ol' FREE american smile on your face.
Here's a question most liberals usually dodge when asked on talk shows... "What would you have done different from Bush... After September 11th / In dealing with Iraq / With economy problems*."
* Seriously though, what can you do to get the economy going again? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bush didn't bring America where it is today, although he is the one destroying it.
And a nice catch Crisgo. :-P
Its nice to know I can come here and except a civil and respectful discussion rather then snide remarks and insults. Also, I don't remember even mentioning the economy, yet you took my words and twisted them for your own gain. Guess this is one of my last posts here then, as I thought people were above stuff like this.
The list a couple pages back sums up why I don't like G.W.
Marik & Talesin do all the arguing for me
Americans! vote for Howard Dean!
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I live in Los Angeles. Thanks to the tax and budget cuts, federal funding even for police has gone down. The only reason I'm safe is because I'm friendly with the local gangers and don't take sides.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
with power, water, and the ability to get food, and assuming you have a job.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I don't have a job... pretty much lost it due to down-sizing. I can't even collect unemployment. I have to keep lights on at an absolute minimum, eat ramen and frozen burritos, and roll pennies for gas money to get to the community college I'm struggling to attend, at which the tuition rates were hiked 33% again due to tax cuts for the wealthy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Why are you complaining? You have more than enough of your basic needs, and unless Bush personally comes to your door and kicks you in the groin,
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He doesn't need to. That'd hurt for maybe a day or two. What he's done has managed to f**k me over in a much longer-term manner.
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* Seriously though, what can you do to get the economy going again?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What can you do? Apparently Dubya thinks you can get different results by following the same trickle-down BS theory that failed for the Reaganites. Oh, wait. No. He's just interested in getting more cash for->from people like Kenny Lay, while those <b>not</b> struggling with Vicodin dependency because their cellphones won't work on their private jets can all go eat Soylent Green.