Recycling For Aliens
Drewbar99
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16505Members
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16505Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Should it be allowed?</div> Now, heres the thing, Marines sometimes get these Comms that are utter morons & do stupid crap, we eject them & recycle the mistakes they make.
But <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> what a mintue, what about aliens, the can't recycle anything, which is bad, cause if they misplace something, its stuck there until it is destroyed which I think is crap <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->. we need to change this...
But <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> what a mintue, what about aliens, the can't recycle anything, which is bad, cause if they misplace something, its stuck there until it is destroyed which I think is crap <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->. we need to change this...
Comments
what about doing a good old gorge rush, sometimes while in their base it is good to setup oc's and that inside for more cover, how can the gorge bile marine structures when it will be destroying it's own.
Then your mindset is wrong. On Caged, for instance, a gorge dropping a single chamber in the vent between Ventilation System and Sewer can seriously screw the alien game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another quick problem is do you get res for recycling? and who gets the res? the gorge who put them up, or the gorge who takes them down? what happens when the gorge decides to go and recycle everything to lame up the game? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I think it should COST res to recycle. That way lame gorges are slowed down, and the alien removing a chamber really has to think it's worthwhile to do so.. after all, there should be some penalty for putting a chamber down in the wrong place.
and it slowly counts down to its recycle, during the recycling process the building does absolutely nothing. I think thats fair and balanced. id say that u get about 50% or 70% of the building cost in return for recycling. (oh yeah, omit res nodes from being recycled)
When he does this, he only gets half res back.
this is exactly what i was thinking...
Dont be so sure, heh heh heh.
About a week ago i played a game on tanith in which one prodigious gorge blocked up EVERY SINGLE VENT in the entire map, and bout 70% of the doors.
Bringing a structure up for vote should take 30 seconds and be performable by any alien, not just gorges. During this time, the player recycling can voice the reasons they want it recycled (Some n00b OCed the vents again! RECYCLE!*&@%#)
Another option could be allowing players to pass through friendly structures while their flashlight is active (and the structures are highlighted) This removes the problem of people laming the vents and making Onoses unable to travel--this happens a lot on ns_nothing where they put OCs atop the ladders in Viaduct and nobody can climb the ladders <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Bringing a structure up for vote should take 30 seconds and be performable by any alien, not just gorges. During this time, the player recycling can voice the reasons they want it recycled (Some n00b OCed the vents again! RECYCLE!*&@%#)
Another option could be allowing players to pass through friendly structures while their flashlight is active (and the structures are highlighted) This removes the problem of people laming the vents and making Onoses unable to travel--this happens a lot on ns_nothing where they put OCs atop the ladders in Viaduct and nobody can climb the ladders <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Too complex. Just a 'consume' option for gorges would be great. The player who built it is notified that it's being consumed, so they can ask for admin action, start a kick... you know.
That's only a viable option if the Admins are paying attention. While I agree that my voting idea is too complex, your option isn't complex enough. Think of the frustration you'll feel all of the hundred times some n0Ob starts eating your structures because he doesn't know what he's doing, or some buddy-!@#$er decides he wants to ruin his team's chance by devouring all the OCs guarding the map's double res spot. It'd be just as bad as someone jumping in the Com chair and recyling the IPs in the middle of a good game.
A lot of NS players are quitters, and they'll do things like that (or start shouting F4 as soon as a critical structure is lost) rather than seeing the battle through to the end.
Okay. So voting is too complex.. Instead, let's make it require two gorges, maybe? This makes it so a lone gorge can't start crippling the team for no reason. If there are two players collaborating to ruin their team's chances, there are far worse things they can do than eating structures anyway. Via a menu option, a gorge attaches to a structure and some sort of "recycling" icon appears above his head, and another gorge which also attaches to the structure causes the deconstruction to occur. Recycling should take 1/2 as long as building. Sounds good to me...
<3 the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) How to deal with chamber griefers who block vents.
2) How to refund resources.
3) How to stop griefers from consuming friendly chambers.
1) How to deal with chamber griefers who block vents.
2) How to refund resources.
3) How to stop griefers from consuming friendly chambers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh, lovely issues.
First, people who block vents are lame and they always will be. Not a whole lot we can do about it except to notice them and do our best to make them feel unwelcome in pubs.
Second, to prevent people from selfishly consuming structures for their own sole benefit, always put the recycled resources into the team resource pool (that is, evenly distribute them amonst all team members.)
Third, the idea of having two gorges required to recycle a chamber will greatly decrease the number of griefers... normally a griefer is someone in a bad mood taking it out on his fellow players by being a jerk. Rarely to ornery, antisocial persons work in pairs.
Granted, none of these solutions is completely airtight.. but they seem like good options to me. The only way to find out if they truly work is to put them to the acid test on a server... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> In my experience, there have always been at least 2 mature players on a team at any one time (not counting 2v2 games, of course) and that could go a long way to help cut down on ladder and vent blocking if the two team up to curb it. It effectively means that the player doing the lame things is giving his resources back to the team, helping them instead of harming them. It also means that aliens can "pull out" of an area if it's going down and not have the chambers be a total loss. When the seiges are going up outside biodome, i'd be really thankful for that option.
Another issue this would solve--when someone (sometimes with good intentions, sometimes with n0Ob intentions) builds Sensory chambers as the <b>2nd Hive Upgrade</b>... Building sensory as the first upgrade often irks people, but if they'd be creative they would realize what an advantage it gives them over light marines. But when Defense or Movement is the first chamber, Defense or Movement MUST be the second chamber... Either to keep your lerks firing or your onoses regenerating or redeeming. Stealth has never proven to be a good mid-game asset for aliens. Being able to recycle that annoying sensory chamber would save the game at times.
What do you think?
<3 the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) How to deal with chamber griefers who block vents.
2) How to refund resources.
3) How to stop griefers from consuming friendly chambers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh, lovely issues.
First, people who block vents are lame and they always will be. Not a whole lot we can do about it except to notice them and do our best to make them feel unwelcome in pubs.
Second, to prevent people from selfishly consuming structures for their own sole benefit, always put the recycled resources into the team resource pool (that is, evenly distribute them amonst all team members.)
Third, the idea of having two gorges required to recycle a chamber will greatly decrease the number of griefers... normally a griefer is someone in a bad mood taking it out on his fellow players by being a jerk. Rarely to ornery, antisocial persons work in pairs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. the first part, I meant 'How do you deal with the chamber they've built'. Now, yes, two gorges to consume a friendly structure would reduce griefers, but again... the vent. How do you get two gorges even IN the vent to consume it?
I like the two gorges, though.
3) How to stop griefers from consuming friendly chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just make it so the gorge that puts up structures can only take down those structures. He doesn't have to be a gorge to take them down. All he has to do is select some 'recycle' command from the menu.
When he does this, he only gets half res back.
It should be restricted!
The gorge who makes a chamber is the only one who can remove it, it takes a few seconds and then you get 75% of the res back!
Same with WEBS!
Only the gorge who out up the web can take it down.
I know that some times it would be better to be able to remove other people stuff but that can cause trouble!
If only the person who made it can get rid of it, problem of lamers solved!
Its the only way!
No!!!
What!!!
About!!!
Those people who drop!!!
Chambers on res nodes!!!
Intentionally!!!
And block the vent between sewer and vent hive!!!
I wish that you could go and remove someones old oc/dc wall and move it up to the next area, or remove a problem wol (blocking vents).
But would you like your 80 res WOL removed because someone else thinks its poorly built?
I know I wouldnt!
if you have players who ruin games on purpose, kick them!
Being able to remove other peoples chambers could cause soooo many problems.
I can't see a fair way to do it without is being limited to the person who dropped it.
1) How to deal with chamber griefers who block vents.
2) How to refund resources.
3) How to stop griefers from consuming friendly chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) My idea doesn't work with this :S
2) You get back 50% of the original cost
3) You can only recycle your own buildings, unless the gorge who built the structure left the game.. then you can recycle his...
a gorge goes up to a vent blocking oc and tries to "eat" it
if its not his, a vote to eat is started everyone gets a tooltip:
[recycler] wants to destroy [chamber] at [location], built by [builder]
if the bulder says no, then a 2/3 vote is needed to destroy if yes then only 1/3
res from building is added to res pool (usualy 1-2 res per player)
good - llamas cant go around recycling peoples things
good - you can still destroy that vent-blocking oc
good - you can still recycle your own structures without vote
bad - a team filled with llamas can destroy everything
solution - new server
Kick lamer. Turn FF on. Eat chamber. Turn FF off.
You need admins but you <b>always</b> need admins.
If you get kicked, your chambers become public property, and anyone can recycle it.
Makes sense to me.
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> I think Teflon and I both brought up some good points and ideas. The main contested issue still seems to be 1) whether or not other players should have the ability to eat structures put up by someone else, and 2) whether or not Aliens should be able to get back the resources they invested in building.
1) My opinion remains that yes, there should be at least SOME sort of measure whereby other players can undo the damage done by griefers when there's no admin around.
2) I believe that Alien recycling should be more of an emergency measure, not a means for the alien doing the recycling to be the sole benefactor. Ergo, I think the res should be fed back to the team en masse.
Now what I am curious about is, do the developers ever care about this issue, or am I only reaching the ears of people who have nothing to do with the mod's development and nothing new to add to the discussion?
<3 the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here's a simpler route. Just turn on tournament/friendly fire mode. I play on RedPhive #2, where this is the only mode we play, straight vanilla, no mods. If you want to get rid of a structure, you kill it yourself. Obviously this hinges on the ability of the player needing to remove the structure to ask his team, but assuming everyone agrees that it would be a good idea, it only takes about fifteen or thirty seconds to bite through a structure as a skulk. It makes it very hard to be a malicious gorge and block vents up, because you only have so many res to spend on buildings people are going to kill in no time at all.
I'm telling you, friendlyfire/tournament mode is the ONLY way to play NS. It r0x0rz j00 1N j00r b00ty!
a gorge goes up to a vent blocking oc and tries to "eat" it
if its not his, a vote to eat is started everyone gets a tooltip:
[recycler] wants to destroy [chamber] at [location], built by [builder]
if the bulder says no, then a 2/3 vote is needed to destroy if yes then only 1/3
res from building is added to res pool (usualy 1-2 res per player)
good - llamas cant go around recycling peoples things
good - you can still destroy that vent-blocking oc
good - you can still recycle your own structures without vote
bad - a team filled with llamas can destroy everything
solution - new server <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Votes are clumsy, and screw up combat. It should never be done via vote.
A team filled with llamas can ruin the game in so many other ways, like charging into marine base over and over to give them rfk. Anyway, are people like this really a big problem? I can't remember ever playing with someone like this. I do understand all of the other points here, but I have never seen a game affected by someone intentionally ruining it.