I always know where there hive is by attempting to place a node in each hive area and when it doesn't place that's where there hive is.....btw if two skulks rush my marines are probably all the way on the other side of the map and building the comm chair takes around 10-15 secs wiht two marines building (don't know exact) its going to be very tough for your one skulk scout and the two other to get to the relocate area as it is going to be placed very quickly and very far away from major attack therefore allowing respawn and electrification of tf next to ips and electrification of lots of res nodes while you have none....from no gorges....btw I have had this happen to me alot and I havn't lost to it...most of the time they never find the relocation spot for the whole game
also I don't know...maybe you have had a bad experience with this strategy but one of the main advantages of it is the fact that nobody is expecting it because its just too rarely used for anyone to attempt to counter and trust me...rushing is probably the worst thing you can do if i get the relocation down because you've wasted precious time and me sucking in res. from the start with all the res. i've capped and am capping....Have you tried this strategy before??
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I always know where there hive is <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You, but would the average commer? Second, you may know where it is, but unless your marines are near it, you're not going to be able to take advantage of sudden alien death.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> btw if two skulks rush my marines are probably all the way on the other side of the map and building the comm chair takes around 10-15 secs wiht two marines building (don't know exact) its going to be very tough for your one skulk scout and the two other to get to the relocate area as it is going to be placed very quickly and very far away from major attack therefore allowing respawn and electrification of tf next to ips and electrification of lots of res nodes while you have none....from no gorges....btw I have had this happen to me alot and I havn't lost to it...most of the time they never find the relocation spot for the whole game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two skulks rush spawn, third skulk "spots" the marines. Two skulks mangle your CC. You drop another CC elsewhere as your relocate. Marines move to it, MS dies. Assuming you killed one skulk, that leaves two skulks to rush your relocation while you're spawning in. We'll say 1 and a half, since he's bound to have taken some damage. They rush your two marines, one of whom is busy building, and kill one, damaging the other. Third skulk has now spawned back in, is rushing to the relocation, and YOU have spawned back in from your death in marine spawn. The skulk, being faster, will arguably get to the relocate before you, and either kill the last marine or force him to hide in the CC, whereupon the skulk will lurk, waiting for YOU.
It then gets very tense as the skulks reinforce and your rines reinforce. The comm can't leave the chair, because he runs the risk of being skulked, and neither can anyone build.... unless you go for yet another relocate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> is the fact that nobody is expecting it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that its on the forum means people will know about it, and secondly, I'm not telling you anything which I haven't already used in games. If two aliens rush base, I'll be looking for a relocation. I'm suspicious that way.
Again, you can counter, but your strategy as I see it is revolving around you and your two friends who know what they're doing. Great on clan games, where you'll have the same..... but then the aliens will ALSO know what they're doing. On the pub circuit, you rely on those two marines to know what they're doing, and that their shooting is > alien skulks.
And the more used the strat is, the wider it'll be known - bear in mind there are few 3 v 3 situations, and if this strat is used EVERY time, people will get wise to it.
assuming your scout finds the relocation spot before It has already been setup and assuming your able to kill the comm after he sets down relocation area and jumps out to attempt to kills skulks.....and assuming you can kill my marines before they build with my medspam before i jump out of chair for insurance then assuming your 2 aliens can reach relocation spot within 20-25 seconds while base is being setup on the other side of the map from marine-spawn...if ur first rush on area doesnt work i'll have tons of money to defend with as many turrets as a like then i can from there just jump in comm chair to get upgrades then jump out defend....then u have no res. if ur rush doesnt work....so all ur counter is pending on is the ability for ur skulks to kill my marines before they can establish relocation which is in my opinion highly unlikely because its gonna be ina smart spot such as a long hallway backed ina corner where u have to run all the way down it to get to my marines....so ur counter will work slim to none...liek i said people have tried this ...hasn't worked
here's what I suggest as a counter. Stand on top of the node while eating it as a skulk so they can't block it, evolve on it, and then drop it. a clever comm can still block it with a CC though. next, eat only built nodes and ignore unbuilt nodes unless you want to build there.
i guess that might work but then again by the time u do taht to a dummy node i'm probably already taking out ur hive node, in short that's the reason this strat works so well its so versatile if u decide to do taht i'll jsut relocate outside ur base if u decide to rush u've already lost if it doesnt work because by the time u go gorge and actually attack the nodes they will be electrified so every counter can be countered easily with this strat...
Well, if this strat is too good and becomes too common, perhaps there will have to be a limit on the number of unbuilt rt's each team can have, perhaps 2 or 3. With 2 or 3 rt's you can block the aliens from placing secure ones near the hive, but you have to build those rt's before you can place more, or recycle them. If there isn't a good counter, then that might be the best fix for the imbalance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> assuming your scout finds the relocation spot before It has already been setup <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a dumb thing to say. I've already stated, several times now, that a skulk is tailing your two rines in the field. Assuming he's doing his tailing job, he won't get shot at, but he WILL know where your boys are. So yes, he'll know whats happening. At most you get to drop your CC or IP, and he'll hear the noise, and then make his move.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and assuming your able to kill the comm after he sets down relocation area <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. I just want the comm dead. Chances are he's already set down a relocation area, if he has any wit. Killing the CC just forces him to follow through with the relocate. With two skulks on his CC, in an average game that means he's all but dead.
The skulk with your two rines in the field will welcome the medspam - usually rines are jumping about like headless chickens, so either way they're NOT BUILDING. Even if they stand still, and trust the spam, then they're still not building. And if they're not building, you're going to be in a bit of trouble once that CC goes down... cos all the skulks know where your halfbuilt CC is. And you'll have to run from your IP in marine spawn.
Secondly, as I have ALREADY STATED, it makes no difference how much "tons of money" you have, because if the aliens don't lock this strat down, then they'll lose eventually. This just speeds the process up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> its gonna be ina smart spot such as a long hallway backed ina corner where u have to run all the way down it to get to my marines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a pretty dumb spot, since the aliens can just contain you there if need be while they mangle whatever RTs you've managed to build. Two skulks can keep your boys jammed in there, and assuming its not within siege range of a hive the aliens can have free reign over the map. One skulk can permagorge, or they can take shifts watching your rines. Sure, you can lame it up, but you're in a losing position with no real way to secure a hive/res. The aliens are slowly shifted to the dominant position, and your strat turns to a breakout.
Like I said before, your strat works because its you and your friends. Its called teamwork. A commander trying this out on a pub team is going to have a trickier time pulling it off... likewise three alien players who know exactly what they're doing would be able to counter it better than a pub team with no clue about it.
rofl. ok this strat is really effective in small games (3v3/4v4) but seriously, ns wasnt designed for small games, you can exploit the crap out of it as much as you want. it seems stupid to risk so much by building every res node when you could just do something like dropping shotgun and sending your 2 rines off to camp the hive, chances are they wont even see an alien on the way to the hive and even if they do, chances are higher that it'll be a gorge or alone (= owned by shotgun). backed up by a pool of medspam under the hive they'd be pretty much unstoppable. now of course this wouldnt work that well in a large game as there would be more skulks around but the point is small games dont count >_<
good responses guys, necrosis, all i know is everytime i've done it with friends or not and in 3v3,4v4 games i've won that is the experience i know and maybe i will be stopped but until that happens then i havn't been countered. you make good points necrosis i won't take that away but how do you know the skulk will find my rines? the relocation is much quicker then ur making it out to be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What a dumb thing to say. I've already stated, several times now, that a skulk is tailing your two rines in the field. Assuming he's doing his tailing job, he won't get shot at, but he WILL know where your boys are. So yes, he'll know whats happening. At most you get to drop your CC or IP, and he'll hear the noise, and then make his move.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a dumb thing to say. One marine owns one skulk, even if he's building. It's called medspam, which the comm should have a lot of due to massive res intake rine's get from this strategy.
Hell, the rine probably won't need medspam if you are charging as a skulk.
I agree with forlorn....necrosis i'm not saying what your saying wouldn't work but I will say IMO its slim to none your assuming alot of things that probably just won't happen with decent marines....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you make good points necrosis i won't take that away but how do you know the skulk will find my rines? the relocation is much quicker then ur making it out to be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulks are rushing your rines from game start, so wherever the relocation is, its good chances ONE of the three skulks will find your marines and tail them en route. I don't think that's unrealistic.
Secondly, its a pretty dumb skulk who charges headlong at marines. If one is building and one covering, then you've a window of opportunity. If the relocation is already down a long corridor, then the alien needs only wait at the entrance/exit to kill your rines as they leave. Again, not entirely unfeasible.
<!--QuoteBegin--_JP_+Oct 17 2003, 05:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (_JP_ @ Oct 17 2003, 05:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the point is small games dont count >_< <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> heh, for those of us who dont' go on the super popular servers and try to get one up and running (as in full), you need strats to play on small games.
remember when aliens would just own in small games? at least now we stand a chance while amusing ourselves, and waiting for a so called 'real' game to start.
LOL yeah that's basically why i posted this strat is because its nearly impossible to win ANY other way in fact i know of no other better way to win in small games....if there's a better way enlighten me.
I actually very much enjoy small games, 1v1 up to 3v3, and have tried a variety of different strats and have a very good win percentage as both Marines and Aliens.
The key as an Alien is to figure out what the Marines are doing by at least taking a glance at their base, because there is very little benefit to going Gorge that 30 seconds earlier and a lot of benefit to knowing what strategy the Marines are using.
This works better in small games because most Marine strategies are very obvious 30 seconds into the game--Most importantly, whether or not they plan to relocate.
<!--QuoteBegin--Necrosis+Oct 17 2003, 12:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Oct 17 2003, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Secondly, its a pretty dumb skulk who charges headlong at marines. If one is building and one covering, then you've a window of opportunity. If the relocation is already down a long corridor, then the alien needs only wait at the entrance/exit to kill your rines as they leave. Again, not entirely unfeasible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The marines set up their new base, around an electrified RT, and when the marines leave base, it won't matter if they die or not.
Not to mention the marines can always get medspammed outside of their base as well.
<!--QuoteBegin--Niteowl+Oct 17 2003, 11:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Oct 17 2003, 11:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--_JP_+Oct 17 2003, 05:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (_JP_ @ Oct 17 2003, 05:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the point is small games dont count >_< <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> heh, for those of us who dont' go on the super popular servers and try to get one up and running (as in full), you need strats to play on small games.
remember when aliens would just own in small games? at least now we stand a chance while amusing ourselves, and waiting for a so called 'real' game to start. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> why dont you just play sprayspam in the readyroom <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
True Forlorn but you're relying on competent marines who don't panic when they're getting bitten.
Secondly, even with medspam, they're fighting a losing res battle against the skulks (unless the skulks do something dumb) and wars of attrition inevitably end up in the aliens favour.
Counters to counters to counters - such a discussion goes on forever.
I think its a nice strat but people using it would have to be dedicated competent players. I'd be concerned if someone tried it, and screwed it up, since it leave no real fall back strategy if you screw it up.
Ok first off, about all this medspam... how is it possible? If you drop as many nodes as you can on the map, a new CC in a relocation spot and an IP how can you possibly have res for medspam.
Comments
I always know where there hive is
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You, but would the average commer? Second, you may know where it is, but unless your marines are near it, you're not going to be able to take advantage of sudden alien death.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
btw if two skulks rush my marines are probably all the way on the other side of the map and building the comm chair takes around 10-15 secs wiht two marines building (don't know exact) its going to be very tough for your one skulk scout and the two other to get to the relocate area as it is going to be placed very quickly and very far away from major attack therefore allowing respawn and electrification of tf next to ips and electrification of lots of res nodes while you have none....from no gorges....btw I have had this happen to me alot and I havn't lost to it...most of the time they never find the relocation spot for the whole game
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two skulks rush spawn, third skulk "spots" the marines. Two skulks mangle your CC. You drop another CC elsewhere as your relocate. Marines move to it, MS dies. Assuming you killed one skulk, that leaves two skulks to rush your relocation while you're spawning in. We'll say 1 and a half, since he's bound to have taken some damage. They rush your two marines, one of whom is busy building, and kill one, damaging the other. Third skulk has now spawned back in, is rushing to the relocation, and YOU have spawned back in from your death in marine spawn. The skulk, being faster, will arguably get to the relocate before you, and either kill the last marine or force him to hide in the CC, whereupon the skulk will lurk, waiting for YOU.
It then gets very tense as the skulks reinforce and your rines reinforce. The comm can't leave the chair, because he runs the risk of being skulked, and neither can anyone build.... unless you go for yet another relocate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
is the fact that nobody is expecting it
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that its on the forum means people will know about it, and secondly, I'm not telling you anything which I haven't already used in games. If two aliens rush base, I'll be looking for a relocation. I'm suspicious that way.
Again, you can counter, but your strategy as I see it is revolving around you and your two friends who know what they're doing. Great on clan games, where you'll have the same..... but then the aliens will ALSO know what they're doing. On the pub circuit, you rely on those two marines to know what they're doing, and that their shooting is > alien skulks.
And the more used the strat is, the wider it'll be known - bear in mind there are few 3 v 3 situations, and if this strat is used EVERY time, people will get wise to it.
next, eat only built nodes and ignore unbuilt nodes unless you want to build there.
assuming your scout finds the relocation spot before It has already been setup
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a dumb thing to say. I've already stated, several times now, that a skulk is tailing your two rines in the field. Assuming he's doing his tailing job, he won't get shot at, but he WILL know where your boys are. So yes, he'll know whats happening. At most you get to drop your CC or IP, and he'll hear the noise, and then make his move.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
and assuming your able to kill the comm after he sets down relocation area
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. I just want the comm dead. Chances are he's already set down a relocation area, if he has any wit. Killing the CC just forces him to follow through with the relocate. With two skulks on his CC, in an average game that means he's all but dead.
The skulk with your two rines in the field will welcome the medspam - usually rines are jumping about like headless chickens, so either way they're NOT BUILDING. Even if they stand still, and trust the spam, then they're still not building. And if they're not building, you're going to be in a bit of trouble once that CC goes down... cos all the skulks know where your halfbuilt CC is. And you'll have to run from your IP in marine spawn.
Secondly, as I have ALREADY STATED, it makes no difference how much "tons of money" you have, because if the aliens don't lock this strat down, then they'll lose eventually. This just speeds the process up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
its gonna be ina smart spot such as a long hallway backed ina corner where u have to run all the way down it to get to my marines
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a pretty dumb spot, since the aliens can just contain you there if need be while they mangle whatever RTs you've managed to build. Two skulks can keep your boys jammed in there, and assuming its not within siege range of a hive the aliens can have free reign over the map. One skulk can permagorge, or they can take shifts watching your rines. Sure, you can lame it up, but you're in a losing position with no real way to secure a hive/res. The aliens are slowly shifted to the dominant position, and your strat turns to a breakout.
Like I said before, your strat works because its you and your friends. Its called teamwork. A commander trying this out on a pub team is going to have a trickier time pulling it off... likewise three alien players who know exactly what they're doing would be able to counter it better than a pub team with no clue about it.
ok this strat is really effective in small games (3v3/4v4) but seriously, ns wasnt designed for small games, you can exploit the crap out of it as much as you want. it seems stupid to risk so much by building every res node when you could just do something like dropping shotgun and sending your 2 rines off to camp the hive, chances are they wont even see an alien on the way to the hive and even if they do, chances are higher that it'll be a gorge or alone (= owned by shotgun). backed up by a pool of medspam under the hive they'd be pretty much unstoppable. now of course this wouldnt work that well in a large game as there would be more skulks around but the point is small games dont count >_<
What a dumb thing to say. One marine owns one skulk, even if he's building. It's called medspam, which the comm should have a lot of due to massive res intake rine's get from this strategy.
Hell, the rine probably won't need medspam if you are charging as a skulk.
you make good points necrosis i won't take that away but how do you know the skulk will find my rines? the relocation is much quicker then ur making it out to be.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The skulks are rushing your rines from game start, so wherever the relocation is, its good chances ONE of the three skulks will find your marines and tail them en route. I don't think that's unrealistic.
Secondly, its a pretty dumb skulk who charges headlong at marines. If one is building and one covering, then you've a window of opportunity. If the relocation is already down a long corridor, then the alien needs only wait at the entrance/exit to kill your rines as they leave. Again, not entirely unfeasible.
heh, for those of us who dont' go on the super popular servers and try to get one up and running (as in full), you need strats to play on small games.
remember when aliens would just own in small games? at least now we stand a chance while amusing ourselves, and waiting for a so called 'real' game to start.
The key as an Alien is to figure out what the Marines are doing by at least taking a glance at their base, because there is very little benefit to going Gorge that 30 seconds earlier and a lot of benefit to knowing what strategy the Marines are using.
This works better in small games because most Marine strategies are very obvious 30 seconds into the game--Most importantly, whether or not they plan to relocate.
The marines set up their new base, around an electrified RT, and when the marines leave base, it won't matter if they die or not.
Not to mention the marines can always get medspammed outside of their base as well.
heh, for those of us who dont' go on the super popular servers and try to get one up and running (as in full), you need strats to play on small games.
remember when aliens would just own in small games? at least now we stand a chance while amusing ourselves, and waiting for a so called 'real' game to start. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
why dont you just play sprayspam in the readyroom <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Secondly, even with medspam, they're fighting a losing res battle against the skulks (unless the skulks do something dumb) and wars of attrition inevitably end up in the aliens favour.
Counters to counters to counters - such a discussion goes on forever.
I think its a nice strat but people using it would have to be dedicated competent players. I'd be concerned if someone tried it, and screwed it up, since it leave no real fall back strategy if you screw it up.