And buddhisim is the only religion typically represented by a really chubby guy. Its a long jump from being unique in some way to being even remotely correct. I like to think of my own invisible toaster god religion as pretty unique, in that sense i guess i have the same bragging rights as you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Christianuty is fundamentaly different from any other major religion in that, in other religions, you have to do the hard work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well "unique" is one way of putting it. I guess another way of putting it would be "Well suited for lazy people". I also find it strange that you would take that stance, considering in any other thread you would be preaching your own set of absolute morals laws. If the only thing Christianity is concerned with is wether or not you accept Jesus before you die, surely all the other shennanigans such as pre-marital sex, the 10 commandments, homosexuality, wouldn't matter in the slightest?
<!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Oct 21 2003, 07:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Oct 21 2003, 07:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And buddhisim is the only religion typically represented by a really chubby guy. Its a long jump from being unique in some way to being even remotely correct. I like to think of my own invisible toaster god religion as pretty unique, in that sense i guess i have the same bragging rights as you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Christianuty is fundamentaly different from any other major religion in that, in other religions, you have to do the hard work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well "unique" is one way of putting it. I guess another way of putting it would be "Well suited for lazy people". I also find it strange that you would take that stance, considering in any other thread you would be preaching your own set of absolute morals laws. If the only thing Christianity is concerned with is wether or not you accept Jesus before you die, surely all the other shennanigans such as pre-marital sex, the 10 commandments, homosexuality, wouldn't matter in the slightest? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well - you dont have to do works. Theoretically, you can get by with just accepting Jesus. The faith part gets you in alone. To qoute from my other thread
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->James 2:14 - 26 reads: CODE What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
But some will say, "you have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that - and shudder.
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the alter? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him righteousness," and he was called God's friend. (vs 24)You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone(/vs 24)
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitue considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What all that is saying, is that if you have faith then you can be pretty much 100% certain that it will manifest itself in deeds. Works are the natural follow through to faith - they are NOT demanded, and in themselves cannot save us, but when you get your faith, you will want to do works.
I think uniquenes is good in so far as when people ask "why should I pick you instead of the others". Because we have something different, we believe we have something they dont.
Well "unique" is one way of putting it. I guess another way of putting it would be "Well suited for lazy people". I also find it strange that you would take that stance, considering in any other thread you would be preaching your own set of absolute morals laws. If the only thing Christianity is concerned with is wether or not you accept Jesus before you die, surely all the other shennanigans such as pre-marital sex, the 10 commandments, homosexuality, wouldn't matter in the slightest?-teoh
If you are a true christian you will want to do what God has commanded because you know he is telling you these things looking only for your best interest and the best interest of the others around you....If God commands something then I'm gonna follow it to the best of my ability because I know God only wants what's best for us because he loves us.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A young girl grows up on a cherry orchard just above Traverse City, Michagan. Her parents, a bit old-fashioned, tend to overreact to her nose ring, the music she listens to, and the length of her skirts. They ground her a few times, and she seethes inside. "I hate you!" she screams at her father when he knocks on the door of her room after an argument, and that night she acts on a plan she has mentally rehearsed scores of times. She runs away.
She has visited Detroit only once before, on a bus trip with her church youth group to watch the Tigers play. Because newspapers in Traverse City report in lurid detail the gangs, the drugs, and the violence in the downtown Detroit, she concludes that is probably the last place her parents will look for her. California, maybe, or Florida, but not Detroit.
Her second day there she meets a man who drives the biggest car she's ever seen. He ofers her a ride, buys her lunch, arranges a place for her to stay. He gives her some pills that make her feel better than she's ever felt before. She was right all along, she decides: her parents were keeping her from all the fun.
The good life continues for a month, two months, a year. The man with the big car-she calls him "Boss"-teaches her a few things that men like. Since she's underage, men pay a premium for her. She lives in a penthouse, and orders room service whenever she wants. Occasionally she thinks about the folks back at home, but their lives seem so boring and provincial that she can hardly believe she grew up there.
She has a brief scare when she sees her picture printed on the back of a milk carton with the headline "Have you seen this child?" But by now she has blond hair, and with all the makeup and body-piercing jewlry she wears, nobody would mistake her for a child. Besides, most of her friends are runaways, and nobody squeals in Detroit.
After a year the first sallow signs of illness apear, and it amazes her how fast the boss turns mean. "These days, we can't mess around," he growls, and before she knows it she's out on the street without a penny to her name. She still turns a couple of tricks a night, but they don't pay much, and all the money goes to support her habit. When winter blows in she finds herself sleeping on metal grates outside the big department stores. "Sleeping" is the wrong word-a teenage girl at night in downtown detroit can never relax her guard. Dark bands circle her eyes. Her cough worsens.
One night as she lies awake listening for footsteps, all of a sudden everything about her life looks different. She no longer feels like a woman of the world. She fells like a little girl, lost in a cold and frightening city. She begins to whimper. Her pockets are empty and she's hungry. She needs a fix. She pulls her legs tight underneath her and shivers under the newspapers she's piled atop her coat. Something jolts a snapse of memory and a single image fills her mind: of May in Traverse City, when a million cherry trees bloom at once, with her golden retriever dashing through the rows and rows of blossomy trees in chase of a tennis ball.
<i>God, why did I leave</i>, she says to herself, and pain stabs at her heart. <i>My dog back home eats better than I do now.</i> She's sobbing, and she knows in a flash that more than anything else in the world she wants to go home.
Three straight phone calls, three straight connections with the answering machine. She hangs up without leaving a message the first two times, but the third time she says, "Dad, Mom, it's me. I was wondering about maybe coming home. I'm catching a bus up your way, and it'll get there about midnight tommorrow. If you're not there, well, I guess I'll just stay on the bus until it hits Canada."
It takes about seven hours for a bus to make all the stops between Detroit and Traverse City, and during that time she realizes the flaws in her plan. What if her parents are out of town and miss the message? Shouldn't she have waited another day or so until she could talk to them? And even if they are home, they probably wrote her off as dead long ago. She should have given them some time to overcome shock.
Her thoughts bounce back and forth between those worrie sand the speech she is preparing for her father. "Dad, I'm sorry. I know I was wrong. It's not your fault; it's all mine. Dad, can you forgive me?" She says the words over and over, her throat tightening even as she rehearses them. She hasn't apologized to anyone in years.
The bus has been driving with lights on since Bay city. tiny snowflakes hit the pavement rubbed worn by thousands of tires, and the asphalt steams. She's forgotten how dark it gets at night out here. A deer darts across the road and the bus swerves. Every so often, a billboard. A signposting the mileage for Traverse City. <i>Oh, God.</i>
When the bus finally rolls into the station, its air brakes hissing in protest, the driver announces in a crackly voice over the mircrophone, "Fifteen minutes, folks. That's all we have here." Fifteen minutes to decide her life. She checks herself in a compact mirror, smoothes her hair, and licks the lipstick off her teeth. She looks at the tobacco stains on her fingertips, and wonders if her parents will notice. If they're there.
She walks into the terminal not knowing what to expect. Not one of the thousand scenes that have played out in her mind prepare for her what she sees. There, in the concrete-walls-and-plastic-chairs bus terminal in Traverse City, MIchicagan, stands a group of forty brothers and sisters and great-aunts and uncles and cousins and a grandmother and great-grandmother to boot. They're all wearing goofy party hats and blowing noise-makers, and taped across the entire wall of the terminal is a computer-generated banner that reads, "Welcome home!"
Out of the crowd of the well-wishers breaks her dad. She stares out through the tears quivering in her eyes like hot mercuery and beings the memorized speech, "Dad, I'm sorry. I know..."
He interupts her. "Hush, child." We've got no time for that. No time for apologies. You'll be late for the party. A banquet's waiting for you at home."'
We are accustomed to finding a catch in every promise, but Jesus' stories of extravagant grace include no catch, no loopholes diqualifying us from God's love. Each has at its core an ending too good to be true-or so good that it must be true.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No loopholes disqualifying you from Jesus's love... unless you don't believe in him, then you go to hell. Seriously, just what the hell were you trying to prove with that quaint story anyway?
God and Jesus love man so much, they were nice enough to make cocaine, STDs, qualudes... what the hell was the point of that story? The last lines were just stupid... what the hell did Jesus have to do anything? Am I supposed to have sudden faith in god because her family was glad she was back? Because it's gods will that her family breeds like rabbits?
I mean, whenever man accomplishes something GOOD, it's "Thank god". I like how you people always steal credit from people and say "it's god's will", but something BAD is entirely man's fault and he gets punished for it. WHA?! You realize terrorists think the same way? Who'd they thank for the destruction of the WTC? The terrorists flying the planes? Or god? Who do they curse for everything that goes wrong? God? Or other people?
Tempdeleteme - the problem of Evil has already been addressed - go have a look at the "Arguement from evil" thread if you dont believe me.
The point of that quaint little story gentlemen, is that while her parents loved her very much, they couldnt actually do anything for her unless she came back and asked for it. Perhaps to improve upon that story, halfway through her parents found her and asked her to come back but she refused, and they respected her choice. Its a parable temp, Jesus told the same one, called the prodigal son. That story didnt actually HAPPEN, its just a story trying to demonstrate something.
So who then would have waved the naughty finger at the parents if that girl died? Skulk would, temp would, anyone else?
what about the story where she doesn't have a nose ring, her parents are very open minded and she leaves home to go live with friends, has a great time and over time finds someone she loves very much and who loves her in return. Years later she dies a happy grandmother surrounded by her loving family.
Everyone has to leave home and their parents eventually... except those who lead a sheltered life and stay with their parents until the end of their days but tend not to have a life they can really call their own. take that as a parable if you want <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can tell you what the other parable was saying - it was saying that Jesus is like your parents, he desperately loves you, desperately wants you back, but he will respect your choices and wont force his help upon you. But if you ask, he will hit you with everything he has. No matter how many bad things you have done, he is always there and is only a prayer away.
mine is saying I lived with my parents because they were comforting and kept me feeling safe but then I grew to realise there was more out there and that I could live my own life without them. Outside of the 'parable' I love my parents lots but I'd rather be out there forging a life for myself than hiding under their wing =P
Inside... well, it's my experience of religion. Believing in a god or jesus or whatever makes you feel like you have a purpose, or you're loved or stuff like that but then one day you just think about it and realise that life's cool enough without having to believe in something other than maybe yourself and the people around you =3 One parable compares people who turn away from christianity as lost children who suffer from their bad choices and hedonistic attitudes... mine just says they're not all hedonistic or suffering and compares people who stay whe stay with religion with people who live their lives with their parents and never enjoy the freedom of living their own lives <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 22 2003, 05:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 22 2003, 05:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> mine is saying I lived with my parents because they were comforting and kept me feeling safe but then I grew to realise there was more out there and that I could live my own life without them. Outside of the 'parable' I love my parents lots but I'd rather be out there forging a life for myself than hiding under their wing =P
Inside... well, it's my experience of religion. Believing in a god or jesus or whatever makes you feel like you have a purpose, or you're loved or stuff like that but then one day you just think about it and realise that life's cool enough without having to believe in something other than maybe yourself and the people around you =3 One parable compares people who turn away from christianity as lost children who suffer from their bad choices and hedonistic attitudes... mine just says they're not all hedonistic or suffering and compares people who stay whe stay with religion with people who live their lives with their parents and never enjoy the freedom of living their own lives <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats an example in the extreme - its not trying to say "Your life will go to hell if you turn away from the Lord", its just trying to show that no matter what mistakes you make, he'll always take you back. Giving the worst case scenario really - and assuming that anything less is also included.
I guess it is just your experience with religion, most Christians that I know feel they have a deep and personal relationship with someone they cant see. They wont just wake up tomorrow and decide they are cool without him <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gem, it sounds as if you have to much pride and selfishness to give any credit to God and it sounds like you think your too good and that you don't need God because you live your life ,generally, good....well you being a former Christian (am I right?) should know that no matter how good we think we are....we are still not worthy of God unless we recognize that we have sinned and are not worthy of salvation unless God gives us his mercy and Grace.
key word is former... I don't believe in god at all anymore. The days of being brainwashed by my school church are long, long behind me =P I'm only talking like there's a god in this thread because it sounds less offensive than me calling it your 'fairy tale father' ^^;
I can't give credit to something that doesn't exist and considering my lifestyle I'd put your 'proud and selfish' comment as being completely off the mark... well... at least the selfish part <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Even back when I was little and the school told me all this god stuff I never did it for stupid salvation or heaven... I just did it because it was what i was told to do. It was only when I really thought about it that I realised I was just playing a role, I just believed without question or purpose other than it was expected of me. After that I stopped singing at assembly and found out our hymn books were really good for playing table tennis =3
<b>edit:</b> I went to a very old public school so we had to wear school uniform and attend assembly every morning to listen to them do prayers and crud (unless you could prove you belonged to another religion and athiesm didn't count). I was sent there for the eductation, but got the religion forced on me without much option. Anyone trying to think up anything kinky involving me in my school uniform will get their bee-hind kicked raw <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It appears there are 4 types of people in this thread
the first are the people who grew up with chrisitanity and still follow it (me) the second is the people who grew up with christianity and have turned away (gem) the third are the people who grew up without christianity but decided to follow it (Leigionnared) the fourth are the people who grew up with athieism and are still athiest
the second type appear to be the most bitter, and the first type cant tell why, but can understand the viewpoint of the third type, who, in turn can sympathise with the fourth. The fourth agree strongly with the second but that is about as far as they get, mainly because they are not interested.
kinda... my parents are open-minded athiests; they don't believe in god but they don't judge or bad-mouth others for their beliefs. Christianity only got shoved in my face as school =3
People typically believe what their parents believe. It's no coincidence. You are taught growing up to believe in something which you have never seen. In the long run, that evolves into believing something by faith alone.
99% of the world's population thinks they know what they believe is true, but they haven't really asked themselves why they came to believe that. It might surprise you to realize you believe it because your parents shoved it down your throat as a child. This is true.
For that reason, I no longer believe in something unless I have a reason to. I have no proof God exists, so I will not believe something out of a threat that I might go to hell if I don't. That's why I'm an athiest. I'll never believe in a God which makes people suffer for not believing He exists without any evidence that He does exist.
oh, I don't have my belief because of my parents... they decided I could choose my own religious path in life and happily left me to my own devices on that account. Athiesm was neither promoted, shoved down my throat or really talked about =/ It was christianity that was pushed on me by my school and it took me a while but I threw it off.
If we're going to start making assumptions about one another then you're like 99% of everybody else out there too hunty... you just dress your words up. It's the people who try to think they're different that end up being the same =P
<b>edit:</b> lol! I just realised something you big silly. 100% of people think they know what they believe is true; that's the definition of belief. You can't think you know something you believe is not true otherwise you don't really believe in it.
I got to where I am by thinking, not by being told what to think. Next time, don't presume people are so shallow you know them; generalisation or observations are one thing but telling people what they're like directly and by name is another ><
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Christianuty is fundamentaly different from any other major religion in that, in other religions, you have to do the hard work.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well "unique" is one way of putting it. I guess another way of putting it would be "Well suited for lazy people". I also find it strange that you would take that stance, considering in any other thread you would be preaching your own set of absolute morals laws. If the only thing Christianity is concerned with is wether or not you accept Jesus before you die, surely all the other shennanigans such as pre-marital sex, the 10 commandments, homosexuality, wouldn't matter in the slightest?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Christianuty is fundamentaly different from any other major religion in that, in other religions, you have to do the hard work.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well "unique" is one way of putting it. I guess another way of putting it would be "Well suited for lazy people". I also find it strange that you would take that stance, considering in any other thread you would be preaching your own set of absolute morals laws. If the only thing Christianity is concerned with is wether or not you accept Jesus before you die, surely all the other shennanigans such as pre-marital sex, the 10 commandments, homosexuality, wouldn't matter in the slightest? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well - you dont have to do works. Theoretically, you can get by with just accepting Jesus. The faith part gets you in alone. To qoute from my other thread
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->James 2:14 - 26 reads:
CODE
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
But some will say, "you have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that - and shudder.
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the alter? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him righteousness," and he was called God's friend. (vs 24)You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone(/vs 24)
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitue considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What all that is saying, is that if you have faith then you can be pretty much 100% certain that it will manifest itself in deeds. Works are the natural follow through to faith - they are NOT demanded, and in themselves cannot save us, but when you get your faith, you will want to do works.
I think uniquenes is good in so far as when people ask "why should I pick you instead of the others". Because we have something different, we believe we have something they dont.
If you are a true christian you will want to do what God has commanded because you know he is telling you these things looking only for your best interest and the best interest of the others around you....If God commands something then I'm gonna follow it to the best of my ability because I know God only wants what's best for us because he loves us.
A young girl grows up on a cherry orchard just above Traverse City, Michagan. Her parents, a bit old-fashioned, tend to overreact to her nose ring, the music she listens to, and the length of her skirts. They ground her a few times, and she seethes inside. "I hate you!" she screams at her father when he knocks on the door of her room after an argument, and that night she acts on a plan she has mentally rehearsed scores of times. She runs away.
She has visited Detroit only once before, on a bus trip with her church youth group to watch the Tigers play. Because newspapers in Traverse City report in lurid detail the gangs, the drugs, and the violence in the downtown Detroit, she concludes that is probably the last place her parents will look for her. California, maybe, or Florida, but not Detroit.
Her second day there she meets a man who drives the biggest car she's ever seen. He ofers her a ride, buys her lunch, arranges a place for her to stay. He gives her some pills that make her feel better than she's ever felt before. She was right all along, she decides: her parents were keeping her from all the fun.
The good life continues for a month, two months, a year. The man with the big car-she calls him "Boss"-teaches her a few things that men like. Since she's underage, men pay a premium for her. She lives in a penthouse, and orders room service whenever she wants. Occasionally she thinks about the folks back at home, but their lives seem so boring and provincial that she can hardly believe she grew up there.
She has a brief scare when she sees her picture printed on the back of a milk carton with the headline "Have you seen this child?" But by now she has blond hair, and with all the makeup and body-piercing jewlry she wears, nobody would mistake her for a child. Besides, most of her friends are runaways, and nobody squeals in Detroit.
After a year the first sallow signs of illness apear, and it amazes her how fast the boss turns mean. "These days, we can't mess around," he growls, and before she knows it she's out on the street without a penny to her name. She still turns a couple of tricks a night, but they don't pay much, and all the money goes to support her habit. When winter blows in she finds herself sleeping on metal grates outside the big department stores. "Sleeping" is the wrong word-a teenage girl at night in downtown detroit can never relax her guard. Dark bands circle her eyes. Her cough worsens.
One night as she lies awake listening for footsteps, all of a sudden everything about her life looks different. She no longer feels like a woman of the world. She fells like a little girl, lost in a cold and frightening city. She begins to whimper. Her pockets are empty and she's hungry. She needs a fix. She pulls her legs tight underneath her and shivers under the newspapers she's piled atop her coat. Something jolts a snapse of memory and a single image fills her mind: of May in Traverse City, when a million cherry trees bloom at once, with her golden retriever dashing through the rows and rows of blossomy trees in chase of a tennis ball.
<i>God, why did I leave</i>, she says to herself, and pain stabs at her heart. <i>My dog back home eats better than I do now.</i> She's sobbing, and she knows in a flash that more than anything else in the world she wants to go home.
Three straight phone calls, three straight connections with the answering machine. She hangs up without leaving a message the first two times, but the third time she says, "Dad, Mom, it's me. I was wondering about maybe coming home. I'm catching a bus up your way, and it'll get there about midnight tommorrow. If you're not there, well, I guess I'll just stay on the bus until it hits Canada."
It takes about seven hours for a bus to make all the stops between Detroit and Traverse City, and during that time she realizes the flaws in her plan. What if her parents are out of town and miss the message? Shouldn't she have waited another day or so until she could talk to them? And even if they are home, they probably wrote her off as dead long ago. She should have given them some time to overcome shock.
Her thoughts bounce back and forth between those worrie sand the speech she is preparing for her father. "Dad, I'm sorry. I know I was wrong. It's not your fault; it's all mine. Dad, can you forgive me?" She says the words over and over, her throat tightening even as she rehearses them. She hasn't apologized to anyone in years.
The bus has been driving with lights on since Bay city. tiny snowflakes hit the pavement rubbed worn by thousands of tires, and the asphalt steams. She's forgotten how dark it gets at night out here. A deer darts across the road and the bus swerves. Every so often, a billboard. A signposting the mileage for Traverse City. <i>Oh, God.</i>
When the bus finally rolls into the station, its air brakes hissing in protest, the driver announces in a crackly voice over the mircrophone, "Fifteen minutes, folks. That's all we have here." Fifteen minutes to decide her life. She checks herself in a compact mirror, smoothes her hair, and licks the lipstick off her teeth. She looks at the tobacco stains on her fingertips, and wonders if her parents will notice. If they're there.
She walks into the terminal not knowing what to expect. Not one of the thousand scenes that have played out in her mind prepare for her what she sees. There, in the concrete-walls-and-plastic-chairs bus terminal in Traverse City, MIchicagan, stands a group of forty brothers and sisters and great-aunts and uncles and cousins and a grandmother and great-grandmother to boot. They're all wearing goofy party hats and blowing noise-makers, and taped across the entire wall of the terminal is a computer-generated banner that reads, "Welcome home!"
Out of the crowd of the well-wishers breaks her dad. She stares out through the tears quivering in her eyes like hot mercuery and beings the memorized speech, "Dad, I'm sorry. I know..."
He interupts her. "Hush, child." We've got no time for that. No time for apologies. You'll be late for the party. A banquet's waiting for you at home."'
We are accustomed to finding a catch in every promise, but Jesus' stories of extravagant grace include no catch, no loopholes diqualifying us from God's love. Each has at its core an ending too good to be true-or so good that it must be true.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mean, whenever man accomplishes something GOOD, it's "Thank god". I like how you people always steal credit from people and say "it's god's will", but something BAD is entirely man's fault and he gets punished for it. WHA?! You realize terrorists think the same way? Who'd they thank for the destruction of the WTC? The terrorists flying the planes? Or god? Who do they curse for everything that goes wrong? God? Or other people?
The point of that quaint little story gentlemen, is that while her parents loved her very much, they couldnt actually do anything for her unless she came back and asked for it. Perhaps to improve upon that story, halfway through her parents found her and asked her to come back but she refused, and they respected her choice. Its a parable temp, Jesus told the same one, called the prodigal son. That story didnt actually HAPPEN, its just a story trying to demonstrate something.
So who then would have waved the naughty finger at the parents if that girl died? Skulk would, temp would, anyone else?
**NUKED** Geez I'm a nublet, thanks boggle
Everyone has to leave home and their parents eventually... except those who lead a sheltered life and stay with their parents until the end of their days but tend not to have a life they can really call their own.
take that as a parable if you want <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can tell you what the other parable was saying - it was saying that Jesus is like your parents, he desperately loves you, desperately wants you back, but he will respect your choices and wont force his help upon you. But if you ask, he will hit you with everything he has. No matter how many bad things you have done, he is always there and is only a prayer away.
Outside of the 'parable' I love my parents lots but I'd rather be out there forging a life for myself than hiding under their wing =P
Inside... well, it's my experience of religion. Believing in a god or jesus or whatever makes you feel like you have a purpose, or you're loved or stuff like that but then one day you just think about it and realise that life's cool enough without having to believe in something other than maybe yourself and the people around you =3
One parable compares people who turn away from christianity as lost children who suffer from their bad choices and hedonistic attitudes... mine just says they're not all hedonistic or suffering and compares people who stay whe stay with religion with people who live their lives with their parents and never enjoy the freedom of living their own lives <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Outside of the 'parable' I love my parents lots but I'd rather be out there forging a life for myself than hiding under their wing =P
Inside... well, it's my experience of religion. Believing in a god or jesus or whatever makes you feel like you have a purpose, or you're loved or stuff like that but then one day you just think about it and realise that life's cool enough without having to believe in something other than maybe yourself and the people around you =3
One parable compares people who turn away from christianity as lost children who suffer from their bad choices and hedonistic attitudes... mine just says they're not all hedonistic or suffering and compares people who stay whe stay with religion with people who live their lives with their parents and never enjoy the freedom of living their own lives <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats an example in the extreme - its not trying to say "Your life will go to hell if you turn away from the Lord", its just trying to show that no matter what mistakes you make, he'll always take you back. Giving the worst case scenario really - and assuming that anything less is also included.
I guess it is just your experience with religion, most Christians that I know feel they have a deep and personal relationship with someone they cant see. They wont just wake up tomorrow and decide they are cool without him <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm only talking like there's a god in this thread because it sounds less offensive than me calling it your 'fairy tale father' ^^;
I can't give credit to something that doesn't exist and considering my lifestyle I'd put your 'proud and selfish' comment as being completely off the mark... well... at least the selfish part <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Even back when I was little and the school told me all this god stuff I never did it for stupid salvation or heaven... I just did it because it was what i was told to do. It was only when I really thought about it that I realised I was just playing a role, I just believed without question or purpose other than it was expected of me. After that I stopped singing at assembly and found out our hymn books were really good for playing table tennis =3
<b>edit:</b> I went to a very old public school so we had to wear school uniform and attend assembly every morning to listen to them do prayers and crud (unless you could prove you belonged to another religion and athiesm didn't count). I was sent there for the eductation, but got the religion forced on me without much option.
Anyone trying to think up anything kinky involving me in my school uniform will get their bee-hind kicked raw <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i would never do that...
It appears there are 4 types of people in this thread
the first are the people who grew up with chrisitanity and still follow it (me)
the second is the people who grew up with christianity and have turned away (gem)
the third are the people who grew up without christianity but decided to follow it (Leigionnared)
the fourth are the people who grew up with athieism and are still athiest
the second type appear to be the most bitter, and the first type cant tell why, but can understand the viewpoint of the third type, who, in turn can sympathise with the fourth. The fourth agree strongly with the second but that is about as far as they get, mainly because they are not interested.
i think
What a happy gathering we have going on here...
People typically believe what their parents believe. It's no coincidence. You are taught growing up to believe in something which you have never seen. In the long run, that evolves into believing something by faith alone.
99% of the world's population thinks they know what they believe is true, but they haven't really asked themselves why they came to believe that. It might surprise you to realize you believe it because your parents shoved it down your throat as a child. This is true.
For that reason, I no longer believe in something unless I have a reason to. I have no proof God exists, so I will not believe something out of a threat that I might go to hell if I don't. That's why I'm an athiest. I'll never believe in a God which makes people suffer for not believing He exists without any evidence that He does exist.
It was christianity that was pushed on me by my school and it took me a while but I threw it off.
If we're going to start making assumptions about one another then you're like 99% of everybody else out there too hunty... you just dress your words up. It's the people who try to think they're different that end up being the same =P
<b>edit:</b> lol! I just realised something you big silly. 100% of people think they know what they believe is true; that's the definition of belief. You can't think you know something you believe is not true otherwise you don't really believe in it.
I got to where I am by thinking, not by being told what to think. Next time, don't presume people are so shallow you know them; generalisation or observations are one thing but telling people what they're like directly and by name is another ><