<!--QuoteBegin--Ha.ze+Oct 16 2003, 06:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ha.ze @ Oct 16 2003, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wasnt there a completly balanced version of NS that was "no more fun"? I would like to see that in action so much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Oct 17 2003, 12:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Oct 17 2003, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well the problem with that idea is it takes fighting away from res nodes. Why destroy your enemies res node or two, when you could more easilly (easierally... ?) just destroy their main base?
Then again, this should probably be posted in the suggestion thread itself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you are reffering to my idea of limiting active nodes to the amount of players on your team, then yes, it would more or less limit players to attacking each other, and not buildings.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My experience in 2.0 is numerous loss as commander. You could say I suck, but you would be wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.)Resource model
-Limits tactics greatly for the marines. A lot of crazy tactics used to work before. 1.0 had the flexibility. You could HA train, you could jetpack, or tech up and shotgun, sneak attacks, etc. All I see now is HA trains. Wow the excitement is breathtaking. The resources for the marines are a joke. 2 resources every tick. Aliens can rack it in alot faster, for example: The Marine team gets between 1-3 res per kill. Aliens get...1-3*players. Hmm....problem here? My solution is eliminating Alien RFK, and allow overflowing. This will limit gorges of course, but at this point I think thats a good idea. Scaling of resource points per player level would even the field, as aliens already need 7 nodes to do anything. (Which isn't hard to get, already.) Several build times could be tweaked to allow for this. Marines should get 2 resources at all times from nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true. The only reason tactics are limited is because they are not being tried. Shotgun rush, tech to HA, hardcore upgrades, JP/shotty hive takedown, res denial, there are a multitude of new 2.0 tactics which you ignore. And from your alien res equation there, it seems like you think all aliens get res for one alien's kill, which isn't true... I'm not entirely sure what you meant by that, but ok. The only alien that gets res from a kill is the killer, so it's not multiplied by the number of players at all.
-The first and only time marines get pinned down, the game is over. Just as they begin to recover and explore, Ooops onos comes trampling in. The core of the problems in 2.0 reflect the actual resource model, anyone too ignorant to admit it needs to reevaluate the game in a more open mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first and only time aliens get pinned down, the game is over. Just as they begin to recover and explore, Ooops HA comes trampling in. The core of the problems in 2.0 reflect the actual skill of the teams involved, anyone who doesn't realize that is as much a fanboy of 1.04 as I am of 2.0.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3.)Nerf-Beef treatment of the "classes"
-In the past there were some issues with strength and weakness. However, I feel the real problem isn't in the characters abilitys, its the ease of its aquisition. Onos in 10 minutes...is game over each time the aliens get them. I've had several people harp to me. "NEWB DONT LET ALIENS GET RES NODE" Well, gee, the only way to properly outfit my teammates is to spend the money on upgrades and shotguns, then expect the public players to hold at a node for about 5 minutes begging him not to run away and die. It just dosen't work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos in 10 minutes is hardly game over. If you have to spend money on upgrades and shotguns just to hold res nodes, then your team is unskilled or you are simply not using the proper tactics. Playing on a experienced players only server can help you see which tactics are effective and which are not.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4.)Commanding is a chore, not fun. -Commanding should be fun, and not the "Oh man, why me" part. There shouldn't BE a part like that. Something should be done to make it more appealing. The common problem in these times are nobody wanting to command, I for one can't blame them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people have the comm mentality, others don't. If you don't enjoy comming then there really isn't much that the NS dev team can do to help you.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't wait to be flamed, but then again, what does that prove...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lately you've filled a lot of threads with anti-2.0 sentiment. Every single time you make a post, you put something like that on there, and I've yet to see you get truly flamed. Making fun of "fanboys" for our love of 2.0 is incredibly hypocritical - we're not the ones who start these debates.
I have read a lot about aliens getting res slower in large games, but no one has mentioned (I may of missed it as I skimmed) that the aliens start with way more res then the marines in large games for example in the 15 vs. 15 match that people say is so unbalanced the aliens stat with 375 res almost 4 times that of the marines, that is enough to cap most every res on the map build chambers and some defenses and still have people saving for the other hives. And with 15 marines on the other team there will be plenty of rambos to supply rfk.
This gives the aliens a huge advantage at the beginning, one they may have to capitalize on until the higher evolutions and more hives are up.
As for the marines they still get res in at a constant rate but the expenses go up, it cost 50 res to supply shotguns on a 6 vs. 6 game but it takes 140 on a 15 vs. 15 game. The same goes with all types of equipment. The only bonuses the marines have are that upgrades cost the same amount no matter the tem size.
So my conclusion is that with different numbers of players the strategies have to change in order to match the resource rate but it turns out to be surprisingly balanced even with so many different team sizes available.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Oct 17 2003, 11:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Oct 17 2003, 11:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Making fun of "fanboys" for our love of 2.0 is incredibly hypocritical - we're not the ones who start these debates. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> God forbid we bring up such things, look, if NS does't improve with 2.1, I will just simply leave. A game I used to enjoy a lot has become a chore for the marines. I have always been mostly an alien player, and the only thing I used to enjoy was commanding, but because its nearly impossible on a public server I think something just might need correction.
/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos.
because the onos said "look over there!!!" and when the marines all turned to look the evil onii sat on them all <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->God forbid we bring up such things, look, if NS does't improve with 2.1, I will just simply leave.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay. I hate to be so blunt, because I like your contributions to Off-Topic and Discussions, but the constant whining from a small group of people about 2.0 being no fun is irritating.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bad luck? Map issues? Lucky/Good/Smart Onos? Any number of issues could cause this. How many marines were there? Maybe they blocked each other's shots, or aimed at the wrong part of the onos.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Play on different servers. Try Xzilen's, for instance. Xzilen himself is a great comm, there are a lot of other highly skilled comms on that server, and it's quite a chore to win as aliens against them. I think 2.01 Final is just about perfect, personally.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Oct 17 2003, 02:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Oct 17 2003, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->God forbid we bring up such things, look, if NS does't improve with 2.1, I will just simply leave.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay. I hate to be so blunt, because I like your contributions to Off-Topic and Discussions, but the constant whining from a small group of people about 2.0 being no fun is irritating.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bad luck? Map issues? Lucky/Good/Smart Onos? Any number of issues could cause this. How many marines were there? Maybe they blocked each other's shots, or aimed at the wrong part of the onos.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Play on different servers. Try Xzilen's, for instance. Xzilen himself is a great comm, there are a lot of other highly skilled comms on that server, and it's quite a chore to win as aliens against them. I think 2.01 Final is just about perfect, personally. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> GOD WHY DOES IT ALWAYS BOIL DOWN TO "Hey, stop bitching kid, you suck at comm"
Man alive, this entire argument is the demon spawn of commanding. Surely if there was nothing wrong with it I WOULDNT BE TEARING MY HAIR OUT ABOUT IT ARGH....
Ok I need to vent...
...ok.
I'm done discussing this issue. If 2.1 does not manage to change my mind, then I will SUYF and move along. There comes a time when its just time to move on to bigger and better things, and no, I am not burned out on NS. These recent frustrations are after 2 months of intent commanding trying to figure something out that could
1.)Rally the team 2.)Make it fun 3.)Be successful
and so far it has all failed with a few minor exceptions
I fear NS has become a competitive game that has no competitive players.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 02:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> GOD WHY DOES IT ALWAYS BOIL DOWN TO "Hey, stop bitching kid, you suck at comm" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you need to calm down. Gadzuko never said, "You suck!"; he said there were a number of reasons (lucky/skillful onos, narrow stomp-friendly corridors etc.) You should just take a break from NS for a while, because it sounds like it's just filling you with incandescant rage. There's no point playing if you're not going to have fun.
As for the issue of commanding - I feel that it is almost always going to be a chore. It's partly down to the importance of the com, and a combination of the fast paced, intolerant-of-mistakes action with sluggish soldiers. It might help if marines were a bit more self sufficient. (Personal res pool from their RfK where they could buy own guns, for example?)
I think the reason the comm is more frustrating than in a regular RTS game is because everything that happens in an RTS game is solely your fault.
Everything that happens on an FPS/RTS isn't always your fault, and the majority of the blame ends up going to you anyhow.
Also, the comm has almost no interaction with the world, which is also frustrating... sure, you can collect intell, drop med packs, and all sorts of other cool things, but when it comes to actually helping to kill the alien in terms of damage, the comm can do crap. Thus leading to frustration. Everyone wants to be on the field, not making the same mistakes they just witnessed in the chair. I've found the best attitude to command with is one of apathy. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I really wish more micro was involved for the comm, such as:
- Being able to target specific targets with the turrets/sieges/electricity (to do this though, you need a marine to spot for the comm so the comm can see it) - Perhaps have some type of structure than could move on it's own, to serve some sort of purpose - Alt-Clicking a marine to his waypoint makes someone or something say, "URGENT!! GET TO WAYPOINT!" - Make it so the comm could target aliens, make buildings, pick up weapon, defend target again (or fix these plz) - Make it so the comm can setup the phase network, so that a phase can only go wherever the comm wants it to go - Make it so double-clicking on marines selects all marines in the screen - Double clicking on a structure in the screen selects all of that structure type - MT allows comm to see aliens as he would normally see them if a marine spotted for the comm, unless the aliens are cloaked or standing still. - Universal click me and I scan out of a random observatory that you own
None of my suggestions are large; and this is what it's all about, the small stuff which really starts to irk other's off. I think what comm's need to keep the game fresh and more in their power is to give them more control.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an easy one. The marines sucked, and stomp is ultra powerful in certain areas, and always have a grenade laucher equipped on someone. Even onos don't want to be in the same room as one of these besties.
that post about alien res per teamsize was great, thank you. ive been complaining in private about what a dumb idea it is to ahve alien res scale with teamsize, and there youve done explained it beautifully. argh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> im not sure if i'm reading your post right but the current alien res system does not scale to alien team size.
Actually... larger games have several factors that make them unbalanced towards marines.
One of the hugest disadvantages for marines is their guns... how many millions of times have you died reloading, or trying to knife something. With more players, there are more bullets to shoot in a group. Rambos in small games are pretty popular, however with 15 players, 14 are on the field, it is pretty hard to find a route to somewhere without having a marine follow you, or find someone doing something.
Aliens need to stick together and use their abilities... i try to tell some alien teams what to do... but most of the time i get a "your not a freaking commander, why the hell should we listen to you" type of responce. I am not trying to lead the freaking team! i am trying to get you guys to use that damn umbra on the onos while the gorge healsprays him!!!! I'm trying to get you to stop sporing the marine base and (god forbid) use primal scream so we can kill faster! I dont know whats happening, people seem more receptive to suggestions/orders when marines simply because of the fact they have a commander or are supposed to be the "teamwork" team. Often i just get so frustraighted at my team i just quit the game and go play firearms, or find a different server. I cant wait till all the NS servers are on one system (i am not supporting steam, but my clan made the move and i had to as well) because right now i cant seem to find a server that is A.) Not empty B.) Full and C.) full of **** that dont want to listen to you. Maybe i should just stop playing attack classes as alien and go towards the gorge and lerk type play style (although i am a pretty good skulk/fade when my internet is not laggy or my computer doesnt freeze)
and BTW... just because the aliens start with more res doesnt mean they can actually put ALL of it to use. People that have 10-20 res just sit on it till they can get more res... with each player, thats alot of res that cant be used. As marines you can always drop a shotty if you have 10 res... but on the alien team, ONE GORGE needs 10 res, and with 10+ players on a team, that res comes in SLOOOOW unless your killing, and as a gorge you usually are not <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Oct 17 2003, 11:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Oct 17 2003, 11:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Making fun of "fanboys" for our love of 2.0 is incredibly hypocritical - we're not the ones who start these debates. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> God forbid we bring up such things, look, if NS does't improve with 2.1, I will just simply leave. A game I used to enjoy a lot has become a chore for the marines. I have always been mostly an alien player, and the only thing I used to enjoy was commanding, but because its nearly impossible on a public server I think something just might need correction.
/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, I don't understand your problem. I guess some people just can't live without one marine being able to mow down 8 aliens by himself.
Comments
No
Then again, this should probably be posted in the suggestion thread itself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you are reffering to my idea of limiting active nodes to the amount of players on your team, then yes, it would more or less limit players to attacking each other, and not buildings.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.)Resource model
-Limits tactics greatly for the marines. A lot of crazy tactics used to work before. 1.0 had the flexibility. You could HA train, you could jetpack, or tech up and shotgun, sneak attacks, etc. All I see now is HA trains. Wow the excitement is breathtaking. The resources for the marines are a joke. 2 resources every tick. Aliens can rack it in alot faster, for example: The Marine team gets between 1-3 res per kill. Aliens get...1-3*players. Hmm....problem here? My solution is eliminating Alien RFK, and allow overflowing. This will limit gorges of course, but at this point I think thats a good idea. Scaling of resource points per player level would even the field, as aliens already need 7 nodes to do anything. (Which isn't hard to get, already.) Several build times could be tweaked to allow for this. Marines should get 2 resources at all times from nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true. The only reason tactics are limited is because they are not being tried. Shotgun rush, tech to HA, hardcore upgrades, JP/shotty hive takedown, res denial, there are a multitude of new 2.0 tactics which you ignore. And from your alien res equation there, it seems like you think all aliens get res for one alien's kill, which isn't true... I'm not entirely sure what you meant by that, but ok. The only alien that gets res from a kill is the killer, so it's not multiplied by the number of players at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2.)Crimping effect for marines
-The first and only time marines get pinned down, the game is over. Just as they begin to recover and explore, Ooops onos comes trampling in.
The core of the problems in 2.0 reflect the actual resource model, anyone too ignorant to admit it needs to reevaluate the game in a more open mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first and only time aliens get pinned down, the game is over. Just as they begin to recover and explore, Ooops HA comes trampling in. The core of the problems in 2.0 reflect the actual skill of the teams involved, anyone who doesn't realize that is as much a fanboy of 1.04 as I am of 2.0.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3.)Nerf-Beef treatment of the "classes"
-In the past there were some issues with strength and weakness. However, I feel the real problem isn't in the characters abilitys, its the ease of its aquisition. Onos in 10 minutes...is game over each time the aliens get them. I've had several people harp to me. "NEWB DONT LET ALIENS GET RES NODE" Well, gee, the only way to properly outfit my teammates is to spend the money on upgrades and shotguns, then expect the public players to hold at a node for about 5 minutes begging him not to run away and die. It just dosen't work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos in 10 minutes is hardly game over. If you have to spend money on upgrades and shotguns just to hold res nodes, then your team is unskilled or you are simply not using the proper tactics. Playing on a experienced players only server can help you see which tactics are effective and which are not.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4.)Commanding is a chore, not fun.
-Commanding should be fun, and not the "Oh man, why me" part. There shouldn't BE a part like that. Something should be done to make it more appealing. The common problem in these times are nobody wanting to command, I for one can't blame them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people have the comm mentality, others don't. If you don't enjoy comming then there really isn't much that the NS dev team can do to help you.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 16 2003, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't wait to be flamed, but then again, what does that prove...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lately you've filled a lot of threads with anti-2.0 sentiment. Every single time you make a post, you put something like that on there, and I've yet to see you get truly flamed. Making fun of "fanboys" for our love of 2.0 is incredibly hypocritical - we're not the ones who start these debates.
This gives the aliens a huge advantage at the beginning, one they may have to capitalize on until the higher evolutions and more hives are up.
As for the marines they still get res in at a constant rate but the expenses go up, it cost 50 res to supply shotguns on a 6 vs. 6 game but it takes 140 on a 15 vs. 15 game. The same goes with all types of equipment. The only bonuses the marines have are that upgrades cost the same amount no matter the tem size.
So my conclusion is that with different numbers of players the strategies have to change in order to match the resource rate but it turns out to be surprisingly balanced even with so many different team sizes available.
God forbid we bring up such things, look, if NS does't improve with 2.1, I will just simply leave. A game I used to enjoy a lot has become a chore for the marines. I have always been mostly an alien player, and the only thing I used to enjoy was commanding, but because its nearly impossible on a public server I think something just might need correction.
/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos.
Okay. I hate to be so blunt, because I like your contributions to Off-Topic and Discussions, but the constant whining from a small group of people about 2.0 being no fun is irritating.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bad luck? Map issues? Lucky/Good/Smart Onos? Any number of issues could cause this. How many marines were there? Maybe they blocked each other's shots, or aimed at the wrong part of the onos.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Play on different servers. Try Xzilen's, for instance. Xzilen himself is a great comm, there are a lot of other highly skilled comms on that server, and it's quite a chore to win as aliens against them. I think 2.01 Final is just about perfect, personally.
Okay. I hate to be so blunt, because I like your contributions to Off-Topic and Discussions, but the constant whining from a small group of people about 2.0 being no fun is irritating.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 17 2003, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bad luck? Map issues? Lucky/Good/Smart Onos? Any number of issues could cause this. How many marines were there? Maybe they blocked each other's shots, or aimed at the wrong part of the onos.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Play on different servers. Try Xzilen's, for instance. Xzilen himself is a great comm, there are a lot of other highly skilled comms on that server, and it's quite a chore to win as aliens against them. I think 2.01 Final is just about perfect, personally. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
GOD WHY DOES IT ALWAYS BOIL DOWN TO "Hey, stop bitching kid, you suck at comm"
Man alive, this entire argument is the demon spawn of commanding. Surely if there was nothing wrong with it I WOULDNT BE TEARING MY HAIR OUT ABOUT IT ARGH....
Ok I need to vent...
...ok.
I'm done discussing this issue. If 2.1 does not manage to change my mind, then I will SUYF and move along. There comes a time when its just time to move on to bigger and better things, and no, I am not burned out on NS. These recent frustrations are after 2 months of intent commanding trying to figure something out that could
1.)Rally the team
2.)Make it fun
3.)Be successful
and so far it has all failed with a few minor exceptions
I fear NS has become a competitive game that has no competitive players.
Ok I'm done.
I think you need to calm down. Gadzuko never said, "You suck!"; he said there were a number of reasons (lucky/skillful onos, narrow stomp-friendly corridors etc.) You should just take a break from NS for a while, because it sounds like it's just filling you with incandescant rage. There's no point playing if you're not going to have fun.
As for the issue of commanding - I feel that it is almost always going to be a chore. It's partly down to the importance of the com, and a combination of the fast paced, intolerant-of-mistakes action with sluggish soldiers. It might help if marines were a bit more self sufficient. (Personal res pool from their RfK where they could buy own guns, for example?)
Everything that happens on an FPS/RTS isn't always your fault, and the majority of the blame ends up going to you anyhow.
Also, the comm has almost no interaction with the world, which is also frustrating... sure, you can collect intell, drop med packs, and all sorts of other cool things, but when it comes to actually helping to kill the alien in terms of damage, the comm can do crap. Thus leading to frustration. Everyone wants to be on the field, not making the same mistakes they just witnessed in the chair. I've found the best attitude to command with is one of apathy. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I really wish more micro was involved for the comm, such as:
- Being able to target specific targets with the turrets/sieges/electricity (to do this though, you need a marine to spot for the comm so the comm can see it)
- Perhaps have some type of structure than could move on it's own, to serve some sort of purpose
- Alt-Clicking a marine to his waypoint makes someone or something say, "URGENT!! GET TO WAYPOINT!"
- Make it so the comm could target aliens, make buildings, pick up weapon, defend target again (or fix these plz)
- Make it so the comm can setup the phase network, so that a phase can only go wherever the comm wants it to go
- Make it so double-clicking on marines selects all marines in the screen
- Double clicking on a structure in the screen selects all of that structure type
- MT allows comm to see aliens as he would normally see them if a marine spotted for the comm, unless the aliens are cloaked or standing still.
- Universal click me and I scan out of a random observatory that you own
None of my suggestions are large; and this is what it's all about, the small stuff which really starts to irk other's off. I think what comm's need to keep the game fresh and more in their power is to give them more control.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an easy one. The marines sucked, and stomp is ultra powerful in certain areas, and always have a grenade laucher equipped on someone. Even onos don't want to be in the same room as one of these besties.
that post about alien res per teamsize was great, thank you. ive been complaining in private about what a dumb idea it is to ahve alien res scale with teamsize, and there youve done explained it beautifully. argh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im not sure if i'm reading your post right but the current alien res system does not scale to alien team size.
One of the hugest disadvantages for marines is their guns... how many millions of times have you died reloading, or trying to knife something. With more players, there are more bullets to shoot in a group.
Rambos in small games are pretty popular, however with 15 players, 14 are on the field, it is pretty hard to find a route to somewhere without having a marine follow you, or find someone doing something.
Aliens need to stick together and use their abilities... i try to tell some alien teams what to do... but most of the time i get a "your not a freaking commander, why the hell should we listen to you" type of responce. I am not trying to lead the freaking team! i am trying to get you guys to use that damn umbra on the onos while the gorge healsprays him!!!! I'm trying to get you to stop sporing the marine base and (god forbid) use primal scream so we can kill faster! I dont know whats happening, people seem more receptive to suggestions/orders when marines simply because of the fact they have a commander or are supposed to be the "teamwork" team. Often i just get so frustraighted at my team i just quit the game and go play firearms, or find a different server. I cant wait till all the NS servers are on one system (i am not supporting steam, but my clan made the move and i had to as well) because right now i cant seem to find a server that is A.) Not empty B.) Full and C.) full of **** that dont want to listen to you. Maybe i should just stop playing attack classes as alien and go towards the gorge and lerk type play style (although i am a pretty good skulk/fade when my internet is not laggy or my computer doesnt freeze)
and BTW... just because the aliens start with more res doesnt mean they can actually put ALL of it to use. People that have 10-20 res just sit on it till they can get more res... with each player, thats alot of res that cant be used. As marines you can always drop a shotty if you have 10 res... but on the alien team, ONE GORGE needs 10 res, and with 10+ players on a team, that res comes in SLOOOOW unless your killing, and as a gorge you usually are not <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
God forbid we bring up such things, look, if NS does't improve with 2.1, I will just simply leave. A game I used to enjoy a lot has become a chore for the marines. I have always been mostly an alien player, and the only thing I used to enjoy was commanding, but because its nearly impossible on a public server I think something just might need correction.
/edit Please also explain to me then why regular players on lunixmonster with level 2 weapons, shotguns, and HA managed to get destroyed by 2 onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, I don't understand your problem. I guess some people just can't live without one marine being able to mow down 8 aliens by himself.